I don't understand why people hate the red pill

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April 12, 2018

Seriously, none of you guys are sexist. Your lives have improved, which of cause benefits others. You guys encourage to live a healthy lifestyle.

I just don't get it.

My theory is that a lot of women and men agree with us, it's only the fact we aren't the majority in media.

Post Information
Title I don't understand why people hate the red pill
Author sokic
Upvotes 70
Comments 74
Date 12 April 2018 04:28 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/666
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/8brht0/i_dont_understand_why_people_hate_the_red_pill/
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the red pill

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (11 children) | Copy

I find there are 3 types of people who hate TRP:

1) People who have never actually read TRP but have heard some offhand comments about it that made it sound like it was a bunch of sexist pigs.

2) People who don't want to make significant change in their lives so they would rather just look at the world with blue tinted glasses.

3) People who are scared that their preferred treatment they receive will be jeopardized if they see more people taking in TRP material and thus lashing out at anyone spouting these beliefs.

[–]sokic[S] 12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

Point 3 makes me wonder if a lot of feminist have a different agenda, then what they protray.

[–]rebuildingMyself32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy

tl;dr: Yes most feminists do.

[–]Je_suis_throwy11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Crabs in a bucket Mentality. I'd say it's a part of human thinking that is strong in certain social groups like betas and feminists.

[–]SilkTouchm7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

1) People who have never actually read TRP but have heard some offhand comments about it that made it sound like it was a bunch of sexist pigs.

This is the majority.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's more that TRP has a harsh no-bullshit atmosphere. Nothing is sugar coated and many things said here can come off as offensive to a newcomer.

[–]sweetb00bs5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy

4) The influx of dipshits leaving dopey comments

[–]BullshittingNonsense12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yeah, I think saying it is a bunch of sexist pigs is unfair, but there are definitely posters who have a hatred of women.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Most new people arrive here during the anger phase so they're very resentful of women.

[–]BullshittingNonsense2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I wouldn't say that exactly excuses some of the stuff that's said.

[–]3d_truth58 points59 points  (9 children) | Copy

Half a year ago I despised one of my friend Sam for learning game. It seemed very shallow and egotistical. I thought he was pretty much learning how to 'trick' girls and he should just be himself instead. I was above all of those pathetic guys who only cared about getting pussy. Me and my other friend would laugh about Sam and how he aspired to have multiple girls at a time.

Meanwhile Me and my other friend were getting cuckholed while Sam did whatever the fuck he wanted. But I don't think it was jealousy that made me despise game. It was more the fact I was unwilling to let go of my romantic Disney myth of women and relationships.

[–]Aggressive_Beta21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy

Fortunately, TRP is about improving yourself so that you actually have game and it’s not a blue pilled PUA trick.

PUA is good for one night stands but any plates you get are gonna break real fast. LTRs? Forget it.

[–]3d_truth4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yea but people don't know this, so they just lump them both into the same category.

[–]sokic[S] 20 points21 points  (5 children) | Copy

See, that's what i mean. Men from when they are born are taught this bullshit, that Disney romantic myth really influenced us.

[–]3d_truth21 points22 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah it's fucked. And it's constantly reinforced. Just listen to the lyrics of pop songs. In the gym today they were playing this song with some beta guy singing "if it ends, can we be friends?" And every other song has some guy singing about his oneitis, begging her not to leave him. Blue pill propaganda.

[–]sokic[S] 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy

Fuck, i'm not the only one thinking this shit about pop music today. It's probably why i love rap so much, about fucking bitches, getting paper Ahahaha

[–]muddynips8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wasn’t always like this. Before music was digitalized and homogenized, artists used to put more of themselves in their work.

Nowadays they just slam 120bpm with a hook and play it until you forget to hate it.

[–]Entrefut3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s why I just listen to metal, the lyrics are almost inaudible and there’s nothing that gets me pumped like drums and guitar. Words seriously water down the positive effects of music by making a song target a specific situation or feeling, instead of just making something that is complex and exciting to listen to. I’d rather listen to classical than most pop music.

[–]friendandadvisor5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Meanwhile Me and my other friend were getting cuckholed while Sam did whatever the fuck he wanted. But I don't think it was jealousy that made me despise game. It was more the fact I was unwilling to let go of my romantic Disney myth of women and relationships.

This here. I would actually lecture my RP betters on how 'women want to be treated like ladies'! ::blush::

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy

When a beta tries to be alpha it comes off as creepy. A fit guy will have more success than a fat guy with the same pickup line since people very quickly ascribe them to the alpha and beta roles.

Similarly, TRP users (generally) don't know sexual strategy. Those trying to learn it come off as betas trying to be alpha, so naturally it's going to be creepy. I can understand it.

I'd say that endorsed contributors and the like are treated more with anger than disgust, due to their unapologetic teaching role.

[–]sokic[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can see, i wonder how many people that are red pilled, don't lift and therefore dont have that alpha trait to them. I can see why a fat guy doing this stuff would put people off compared to a fit guy. Still at least this place is a place of hope that many men need today.

[–]fuck-fuck-fuck-fuck-39 points40 points  (4 children) | Copy

It doesn’t help that:

1) Many guys are in the anger phase.

2) Racists love to hang out here. Funny how “white power” dorks love to pretend they’re alpha while proclaiming their superiority, but no alpha would do that, and they certainly wouldn’t eradicate/remove the “competition” so that they’re now superior when compared to.... um, nobody’s left. Superior by default doesn’t make you superior. It makes you a pussy.

[–]sokic[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

Very true words. Still it's weird causes i actually never had a anger phase, the only thing i was pissed about was how i realised that i was taught bullshit. Everything else just made sense to me. I'm a very analytical person so i guess that played a role too.

[–]fuck-fuck-fuck-fuck-6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

And, well, we know women love double standards when it’s in their favor.

Right now, they’re perceived as the victim when they suck off 100 guys in a party in one night and you should “feel bad for her” and not expect her to do icky things to you, “like blowjobs.” Lol

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

What racists?

[–]Iwannachokekatie3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haven't seen any racists here.

[–]AllRealsAndNoFeels23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy

I imagine that it's the blunt, harsh language that turns off the majority of these nay-sayers. It's hard to find a post that's not slathered in language like, "you're a fag," "she's a whore," "stop being a bitch," "a woman is just a child," "all women are like that," and so on. If you're the average Joe or Jane, who lacks the ability to read critically, any single paragraph can push your SJW sign-writing skills to their limits.

A Nice Guy or Average Jane would see these words and immediately feel that they're an attack on all that's sensible in the world. Even if they would agree with the point being made, the language offends them to the core and puts them on the defensive. They feel that their world-view of peace and perfect equality has been punched in the mouth, and that they need to start swinging back.

Think back to when you were a fat, beta-bitch, feminist ally, and imagine reading something like "all women are like that." Even if part of you understands the underlying message and that it isn't literal, it's the mere arrangement of words on the screen that gets your panties in a twist. You haven't yet sided with TRP, and the first thing you see is an attack on your gender, or the gender that you feel that you need to protect. It's upsetting to the core.

The language has a purpose, and I'd consider it a necessary component. Many men who arrive at TRP, do so while they're broken and angry. The nasty language creates solidarity, and pushes other men to action. The words need to spark a fire in that man, and harsh words do just that. The nasty text lets you know that other men have stood exactly where you are now, and felt exactly what you're feeling. Kind words created the problem, and a few brutal paragraphs can solve it.

Or it's because the nay-sayers are fag-bitch whore-children who are all like that. I don't know.

[–]mustang371166 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This. Completely relate to being that beta bitch feeling the need to "protect" cuz my precious ass world view was falling apart. Problem nowadays is ain't no one got thick skin. They care too much. damnit stop caring so much

[–]Thisisaghosttown 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

I’ve been here for years now and I don’t think it’s misogynistic at all. Almost everything that is taught here are basic life lessons and wisdom.

I also think that this place is filled with a lot of dudes who are angry because they were at the bottom of the totem pole in their younger years whether it be college or high school, and now they’re trying to be the jocks in some sort of revenge fantasy.

This place has given me some useful tools to help me get around in life, but to be honest everything that I’ve accomplished so far was just trial and error from putting myself out there and getting burned constantly until I figured something out. I used to have horrible social skills but i improved them greatly just from taking risks.

Don’t believe everything you read on the internet though, this place to me is like Alex Jones and InfoWars. There’s some valid and true information, but the majority of what you read on InfoWars is just conspiracy theory subculture fluff that’s not rooted in reality.

For the same reason people hate InfoWars they hate TRP because they know nothing about it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

I've watched InfoWars, it's pretty fucking stupid most of the time.

[–]Thisisaghosttown 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

It’s a comedy show is what it is.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Intentionally? Didn't know that. I don't think it is for some people.

[–]LiftOrGTF08 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

The truth hurts, especially when people realise their entire life is/was based on a lie.

[–]Thunderfin8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy

Most people don't dig deep into reading what TRP actually is. They assume on a superficial level that it's misogynistic. Pretty much it.

[–]sokic[S] 9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

Sometimes i think women are more misogynistic then men.

[–]Thunderfin0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Do you mean misandristic?

[–]adam_varg 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

nope mysoginy

slut shaming? thats predominantly women thing

age gap shaming? thats predominantly women thing (overtly shaming the man is just overt side, by doing so they are saying the woman in question is idiot)

and so on..

[–]Thunderfin0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Hmm, didn't think about it in that way. Cool.

[–]R41nmaker7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I never realized how “blue pill” I was until I started reading about the red and blue pills on Reddit, literally about a month ago when I first created my account.

I am not a sexist or mysogynist. In fact, I love women. However, I am not stupid and I will not succumb to unrealistic demands. At least not after taking the red pill. After a rough break up from a nearly 10 year relationship, I was being a blue piller AF afterwards. I became depressed and very needy. I was hopeless.

I then began seeing my therapist more. I started eating healthier. I am going to the gym and being active. I am being more social. The Red Pill has opened my eyes and is making me into a better version of myself everyday. The inspirational stories I see here are what push me to become a better, stronger man.

Thank you, fellow Red Pillers.

[–]TryhardPantiesON28 points29 points  (8 children) | Copy

/u/bupkiss1290 and /u/Mawely made some good points, but there is something that people fail to mention.

Some members on this community are really toxic, like I get it, you are an alpha and all, but you don't have to over use the word "fucking" as in fucking lift, fucking read, fucking this and that... Another thing I noticed is the use of insults and derogatory remarks when they are giving advice, if people do dumb shit and come crying to this sub, the last thing they need is someone to grill them for the mistakes they have made, they are here to receive advice and support from others.

Here is an album someone sent me a few months ago, when I was speaking on behalf of The Red Pill subreddit when someone claimed that it was a toxic subreddit. I couldn't build a case after that, and better shot my mouth.


This is the kind of things that has kinda driven me off from The Red Pill in a sense that I am not as active as I used to be. Now I just lurk and comment once in a while. I am not an overly sensitive individual, in fact most people consider me to be very estoic, even insensitive, but I just prefer not to receive the negativity that some users in The Red Pill community give.

I do not ask people to shower in compliments each other, simply be polite and respectful, even when correcting someone who is giving bad advice, as I am sure that most people will just downvote them for giving bad advice.

Just my 2 cents, you can downvote if you want, but at least make some self analysis and see if you are an example of a toxic user and correct that behaviour, if you are not part of that group, then my utmost respect to you.

[–]jrr6415sun4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

anyone on here I see that constantly uses the word "fucking" is someone who is trying to pretend like they are more alpha than they are.

[–]pisspoordecisions4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with you. When I first got into it I feel like it was significantly less sexist than it is now. Or at least posts regarding the anger phase didn’t gain as much traction. I used it more as a warning sign, a way to prevent myself from being naive...however it wasn’t really anything groundbreaking for me, being in the Greek life scene at a huge university at the time. It was more just a reference to keep myself in check.

Now I just see a lot of try hards and endorsed contributors who’s egos go unchecked, and who act like the ground they walk on should be worshipped. And that has led to the forum being significantly more toxic.

There are still great ECs, and great posts that can be very helpful...but the great posts have become few and far in between and require a lot of filtering. And the politic leanings are super off-putting and mostly irrelevant to the grand scheme of TRP.

When you focus on the posts that teach you how to be a man, and to be wary of how we view and deal with women and relationships you can learn a lot and really improve yourself. Doesn’t require full blown hatred to be a success

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Read through the album and you've got things mixed up. They're not women hating, they're just stating truth in less-than-good ways. If I were to say;

"Stacy fucked 5 dudes while she had a boyfriend, poor Jim"


"Stacy is a whore, Jim shouldn't date whores"

These two sentences are the same but one ignores political, moral and ethical correctness. Yeah it's fucked up to say the second one but it's the truth no matter what way you put it. Putting ice-cream on everything is child think.

[–]TryhardPantiesON3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Honestly, I have not gone through all the pictures, also I didn't say that what's in the pictures is bad advice. I have seen just a handful, and the advice is overall good, the problem I see, is the overuse of derogatory remarks towards women, I think some users make those remarks while in the anger phase and well, it happens that those remarks make the community look bad.

Also note that people will take what people say here out of context to paint the community as a toxic sub, and I am afraid this kind of thing might get the community quarantined or banned.

I am not in favor of policing language, I am not in favor of political correctness, which is just a tool for censorship, but I am in favor of politeness, good manners and respect.

[–]systemshock869 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Part of being a man is not getting butthurt when people are mean to you. Especially when trying to administer 'tough love.' If you're the kind of person to get triggered and click away from something because they called [the reader] an idiot or used harsh language then this sub might not be for you.

Also it's nice how they cherry pick rando idiots that post crazy stuff for their albums that prove TRP is a hate group. I also love it that a good chunk of them are either (1. true or (2. clearly hyperbole/joking. Cucks can't handle sarcasm unless it fits within their niche bubble of thought patterns, let alone uncomfortable truths.

[–]TryhardPantiesON5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Part of being a man is also being polite and well mannered, seriously some guys here try hard, way too hard to look tough on the internet and impress a bunch of randoms here.

Being a chad is no excuse for being impolite.

[–]Viking_RnP-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're full of shit.

[–]izual194 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Discovering the redpill gave me a whole new appreciation for rap lyrics. I used too think they were mostly nonsense and shallow. Turns out its the only genre of music that has been preaching the truth.

[–]WithItOrOnIt0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Any song suggestions?

[–]karkyflarky2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Feminism is strong enough to do that. There are many blue pill people out there who are in no way shape or form feminists but have been indoctrinated in to a world which feminism is almost gospel. Your slaves don't have to like you just because you are there master. They might not even know. That is an example of there power over society. Let's be honest here the red pill is not exactly appealing. Everyone here can even say that the denial stage is hard to fully get through. It never seemed moral to all of us here imagine how bad it looks to blue pill pro feminists. I speak as recovering blue pill anti feminist. Also the red pill on politics is way more mainstream and in politics certain groups seen as red pill are the sort of people getting accused of being nazis. I know this because the guy who sent me here had to listen to me get confused.

[–]Deep_freeze2022 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

TRP threatens women's dual mating strategy by giving men the ability to rise above being a beta provider, as well as actively discouraging men from sacrificing their own ambitions and desires to cator to a woman's.

TRP threatens the accepted narrative that women are oppressed underprivileged special angels deserving of special treatment, this of course has a wider impact of threatening women's ability to receive benefits simply for being female as well as the larger social structure built around this system.

TRP destroys the process of transforming men into disposable resources to be exploited.

TRP shatters the comfortable lie, some people are so hopelessly dependant on the system they will fight to protect it.

[–]jrr6415sun3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

are you in denial? The RP paints women as animals that only care about alpha males. In this PC society you don't get why that would offend people?

[–]BlondieMonster891 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well said

[–]Ou-tis1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Talk for yourself,I am sexist since birth.

[–]EminemLovesGrapes1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Just like any ideology there's parts of it that are pretty..... immoral.

Dread game for instance. Which is valid. That shit terribly manipulative and if you ever have t consult that you're better off breaking up tbh.

People who criticise the red pill take the few toxic parts of it and then claim that therefore the entire movement is toxic.

An example would be quoting a few comments from people on the subreddit and then saying "ooooo that's the entire movement consisting of 250.000 people's opinion" While in reality it might be a few hundred. At best.

Or they quote stories of autistic/mentally damaged people using TRP in completely the wrong way as proof that the entire movement is toxic.

Or they quote to the fact that TRP is all based on conjecture. Anecdotes. Not scientific study. Pseudoscience. Which I consider valid. TRP is just men throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks.

Inherintely TRP is just a bunch of men trying to figure "it" out. Not all of us are manipulative assholes. And not all of us are so mentally damaged and vulnarable that we can't judge right from wrong.

They just don't see that.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We do have a lot of downright "misogynistic" comments. Aka, as per definition "dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women". A large part coming from young people who have suffered from being rejected, exploited or hurt in a way or another by women. It's easy to find examples here and there of these sort of offending content, which our detractors latch onto. It's not all of TRP, but the criticism extends to the whole of TRP for allowing this to go on. The worst of it is shot down by mods, but not all.

That a large majority of users and comments are not misogynistic, that the theory discussed accurately represent human behavior, that the lifestyle advocated is one of health and strength, that we provide a support for men and often save their lives, or that we make sexually-fulfilled women and men are often unknown to the haters, or simply irrelevant in the light of what offends them.

The problem is that we get all those benefits specifically by not policing speech. Free speech is what gave us that gold. Had PUA and TRP speech and tone been effectively policed from the top down, we would have never gotten there.

I get why they hate us. Poor kids get offended easily these days, so I'd imagine they really choke to find actually offensive content. But no need to care about it. Keep working on yourself, digging the gold from TRP while discarding the shit.

[–]Viking_RnP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

We're told from a young age that we'll be happy if we float around everyone and avoid all conflict as if we're all Peter Pan.

The reality is we are happy to set sail with Captain Hook and blast our way through our conflicts risking a sword in our throats.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

People don't want to learn, they want to assume.

[–]cl35374 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

Redpill doesn't advocate healthy relationships with women it is strategy to get sex from women without commitment.

Sure some women want just that, but they can also get sex from a thirsty beta who might also commit to them.

The upfront strategy for Redpill isn't what is objectionable, it actually leads to great sex. Its what happens when you have the power and just use it to manipulate and use women that is more offensive.

[–]FelipeAngeles4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I like three things about the RP.

1- Always improve your self.

2.- Always be in control your feelings. Specially, don't let women control them.

3.- Women respect you more if you do 1 and 2.

But all the alpha/beta narrative, feelings of superiority and vanter about using other people are toxic.

[–]es14260 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This. I am subbed to both TRP and subs that mock it (r/beholdthemasterrace). One side is almost never right. It’s usually somewhere in he middle and I come here for the pro-self improvement message too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For a feminine primary society covertly ruled by feminzis, the TRP is a convenient bogyman. They may hate it, but they need it. Just like the Russian commies invented a new bogeyman, the Kulaks, to hate as a means to galvanize support for the state. Currently any old, white, male is the bogyman as well for the feminzis. They need an enemy to rally against to garner support to their cult. Most cults have central figure of goodness, but this one needs an enemy like in 1984.

[–]zboo1h0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

People who "hate" the red pill either don't know what it is or are far too stupid to understand.

[–]02537-411010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Truth hurts.

[–]bumbuff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

A few good points made. Another reason is that many people also confuse RP theory to PUA. Mastering RP leads to increased sex as a byproduct but it's not the main goal.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRian_Stone0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why do people hate Apple, Facebook, PC gaming/Console gaming?

Because someone who bought ad space said so.


It's not rational either. This came after I responded to someone in my friends feed after forgetting to check which sub they were in. I told him I voted for the NDP last election (socialists) and was a POC, and this was his response.

[–]Theguygotgame7770 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Someone hasn’t read the sidebar on the main sub. Read over the “Misandry bubble” to understand this.

[–]montereybay0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The world is dominated by feminist group think, and rigidly enforced. It's gonna take a while to loosen the grip.

[–]majestyalphaq0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

For majority of guys, redpill is a whole new different way of viewing social interactions and girls. They have to hate it, because acknowledging it will tell them that they have been following a flawed life compass and many people cant take that. Hence, hating essential is to protect their own identity.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I just don't get it

The world is made up of 50% women lying to the world about their AF/BB strategy and 45% of men who believe the female lies.

That leaves 5% clued up men who are ok with TRP.

All the media reports about us are based around preconceptions revolving around misunderstanding and damning men, ie the usual narrative.

[–]Wolfwoodd0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You must not remember the original TRP subreddit. A good 10% of posters were deep in the anger phase and had some pretty extreme views / advice. It was a big turnoff to any casuals popping in from elsewhere.

[–]electricitygives0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Because it questions their current reality, and anything that doesn't suit that frame of reference is to be ignored and shunned.

Everybody wants to believe in the dream.

Also: Confirmation bias. Even if they're confronted with evidence and facts that contradicts what they think, it will only make their current beliefs stronger because people don't like admitting that they were wrong. It's tied to self identity and pride.

[–]bob13bob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

that's jsut not true. there are plenty of sexist people in here.

There are also people like me who think SJW have gone too far and is anti-science. There is a unpolite side to human sexuality thats fascinating with more data coming out every day. I self-classify as feminist like Jordan Peterson, equality of opportunity not outcome. Fix and encourage the man, don't coddle him, the rest of pieces will fall in to place.

In many ways, RP is just breaking through propaganda of our parents generation of settling down, married, having kids that was pushed by the government and religion. Think of it in economic terms, society wants family units so they dont' ahve get cucked in money for kids running around. A family man is easier to control, he has more to lose, less likely to make riskier decisions like take what he learned from under you and opening a competing business.

Our parents also have a bias in wanting ot see grandkids; offspring they themselves don't have to pay for or be the primary caregivers of. Evolutionary biology supports this, having other people pay the resources to spread your genes around.

[–]Drakonlord-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

I hate it because its a bunch of 19 year olds talking about how great they are with literally 0 proof.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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