Women are the beloved creation of Gods hand before they are temptation to you

Red-Curious · 2020-05-21T04:50:10+00:00

I thought about removing this thread for the blatantly unbiblical view it expresses, but maybe there's more value in leaving it up and just locking it instead. Before doing so, though, let's clear up some things ...

Looking at someone with lustful intent

It's amazing to me how many people call "lust" or even "lustful intent" a sin. Have you not read Matthew 5? Is it wrong for me to lust after my own wife? Of course not. Let's quote Jesus: "Anyone who lusts ... has committed adultery in his heart." Lust is not the sin. Adultery is. If the lustful intent is not in an adulterous context, we can't so quickly call it sin. I expanded on this significantly in my comment to /u/DeChef2 below. Here's the link for the lazy.

purely as a means of gratification for you- as a means of satisfying a desire you have. It is turning them into a commodity to be consumed, rather than a person to honor

Hmm ... the word for "lust" in Matthew 5:28 is a conjugation of epithumeo. Let's look at another example the same author uses - Matthew 13:16-17.

But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men [epethymesan - selfishly desired for their own gratification, as a commodity to be consumed rather than to be honored,] to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

Does that interpretation make ANY sense to you at all? This garbage interpretation by the author is imputing his own definitions and ideas of what that word means and using that as a foundation for Scriptural interpretation. That is not how we do things here.

Instead, from the very next time Matthew (again, the same author) uses the word, we see that this "lust/desire" is utilized in a very holy context by righteous people. Lust is not inherently degrading to women. The context and motive in which it is used is what causes the problem, per above.

David

As others have pointed out, this wasn't a one-way thing. Bathsheba was married to one of David's mighty men. Historically, David is understood to be close to 60 years old at this time. Most people also believe his mighty men came about when he was serving Saul as a young man! That means they'd known each other for a LONG time. This is also clear from Uriah's closeness to the palace. David almost certainly knew Bathsheba, and her him.

Yeah, she's either on the roof or bathing with an open window. Yeah, she could see the palace out the window. Yeah, she knew David lived in the palace. There's nothing in the Bible to suggest she shut the window if/when she noticed David oggling her. There's also nothing that indicates ANY type of resistance whatsoever to David's advances toward her. After all, she's a lonely woman whose husband was off at war, so she's hot and lonely.

Can we say definitively that she sinned in all of this? I suppose we could assume that David actually raped her. But something tells me that if he did, Nathan would have been having a different conversation with David later on. David was condemned by God in this situation for committing adultery and sending Uriah to his death. He was also condemned and got numerous Israelites killed by a plague for something as small as taking a census. If rape had occurred, something tells me God would have mentioned that to us, in light of the smaller things about David that actually are brought up.

In the absence of rape, the only other conclusion is that Bathsheba was willing. This was mutual adultery. And if she was willing when summoned, is it a hard leap to assume she was hopeful and perhaps even tempting? Obviously there's no guarantee that she lured David into this. But these are not far stretches, and they're pretty commonly agreed upon even by many blue pill pastors - one of the few cases in Scripture where I've actually heard pastors be willing to share the blame.

Oh, one reason I've heard for why Bathsheba was presumed to be at fault was God's insistence on the death of the baby. One pastor noted that 1 Cor. 7 sanctifies children born of sinful relationships as long as one of the parents is a believer/righteous. The presumption given was that if Bathsheba was innocent before God in the situation, he would have spared the baby, but because the baby died it implies that neither of them were innocent. Sure, this is a bit of a stretch, but also an interesting thought.

IsAllThisReal · 2020-05-20T23:27:09+00:00

I wish women could live for a week in the body of a man and understand what it feels like to see some girl with her tits popping out the top of her turtleneck, in skin tight yoga pants. Why was Bathsheba bathing on a roof when it was clear that she could be seen from adjoining rooftops. Probably because she was an attention whore. Presumably she set up the tub and either she or her servants undertook the arduous task of bringing all of the water up for a bath. One flight of stairs? 2? a ladder? Assuming an average size tub thats around 600-700lbs of water. Who does that? She sounds like an E-thot.

David is responsible for his own actions, self-control and self-discipline are two of the primary attributes of a strong man. Conquering your own desires, 'crucifying the flesh', and 'making no provision for it in regards to its lusts' are fundamental for 'living according to the spirit' and becoming a new creation.

But even the most well trained, obedient dog in the entire world will start drooling if you wave a steak in front of it's face. Psychological studies show that we can display arousal patterns by seeing a silhouette for a fraction of a second. How much worse is it when its a girl dressed in revealing clothing flirting with you? Chemicals are dumped into your brain telling you 'mate, mate, mate mate'. Women will never understand this. Women who dress provocatively, especially around children, be better off with a millstone tied around their neck and cast into the sea.

Both men and women have a responsibility to help each other maintain sexual purity.

DeChef2 · 2020-05-21T02:35:44+00:00

Listen. Lusting isn't bad because of what it does to women. Or even what it does to men.

Lusting is bad because it goes against the will of God.

Finally, as with another recent post, please bring your own thoughts, not someone else's. It's okay to quote from someone else, but don't let that be the bulk of your post.

Oh, and don't come to our subreddit and imply that men only think of women as sex objects.

Deep_Strength · 2020-05-20T23:32:52+00:00

“This is what Jesus was getting at(in regards to Matthew 5 v 27-28). Looking at someone with lustful intent is looking at someone purely as a means of gratification for you- as a means of satisfying a desire you have. It is turning them into a commodity to be consumed, rather than a person to honor. It makes their sexuality something for us to be satiated by(67).”

“This is what lust does. It reduces how we see others, in the process dehumanizes us. We become those who see less and less of humanity in others. So it makes no difference if the objects of our lust are even aware of it. David’s lust for Bathsheba would have been destructive to him even if he had never been able to physically act on a it with her(69)”

Gonna disagree with you that this is the primary intent of the passage.

Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery’; 28 but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman/wife (gune) with lust (epithumeo) for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the Law sin? May it never be! On the contrary, I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting (epithumia) if the Law had not said, “You shall not covet (epithumeo).” 8 But sin, taking opportunity through the commandment, produced in me coveting (epithumia) of every kind; for apart from the Law sin is dead.

Exodus 20:14 “You shall not commit adultery. 15 “You shall not steal. 16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Having desire (e.g. being sexually attracted or having sexual attraction for another) is not a sin if both of you are single. For instance, 1 Corinthians 7 states that if you do burn with passion and cannot stay single to honor God then you should marry.

One cannot commit adultery (either physically or in his heart) unless he is married looking at other women or a single man looking at a married woman. Thus, in Matthew 5 Jesus is referring to married man coveting a woman that is not his wife or a single man coveting another man's wife. "Gune" in the Greek is translated as woman or wife depending on the context. Romans 7 helps to tie it back to the the 10 commandments to show that Jesus was not just referencing adultery but avoiding sinful coveting in the heart (which can lead to adultery and wanting your neighbor's wife) through tying those two together.

Much of the "you have heard it said in the times old" in the Matthew 5-7 Sermon on the Mount is Jesus talking about the Law and expounding on the intent of the Law (e.g. Love God and Love your neighbor) the way God intended it and not legalistically.

I am not saying that lustful desire/infatuation can't get out of control or become an idol by itself (because men and women can obviously get ONEitis), but it is not the primary intent of the passage.

David was idling about on his rooftop. He saw Bathsheba bathing. However it began, he lingered over the image. What he was looking at was a person, a woman, a wife.

Also worthy of note that Bathsheba was sinning too. She was bathing in full view of the king's palace while her husband was out to war, and then went along with the adultery and didn't tell David no. The "Christian feminists" might say that "women bathing on the rooftop was normal! It was all David's fault and she couldn't say no to the king!"

However, this ignores the fact that (1) his present wife Abigail had righteously came to David prior to this and convinced him not to sin by killing her husband which shows that women could convince David not to do evil things. Similarly, (2) Bathsheba is not including in the genealogies of Jesus whereas other righteous women such as Tamar, Rahab, Ruth, etc. were included. When Solomon is mentioned, it mentions Uriah as the righteous one (Matthew 1 "David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,")

Thus, Bathsheba was very likely complicit in cucking her husband. A primary example of a woman "trading up" in the Scriptures.

johngalt1234 · 2020-05-21T03:03:50+00:00

Similarly what Porn does for Men. So Romance book does for women. Both are mediums of lust. Unique to both men and women.

Decimus_of_the_VIII · 2020-05-21T05:18:23+00:00

First off, Iove Bathsheba as much, if not more than any man loves his wife. She is so much more to me than anything. She is my Beatrice, whom God saw fit for me to marry... We have suffered enough..

With that being said, I appreciate the respect and honor you accord women. You are absolutely correct in your summation of how they are to be honored. As I wrote later:

3 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 3 Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.

Title	Women are the beloved creation of Gods hand before they are temptation to you
Author	ughs1234
Upvotes	11
Comments	37
Date	May 20, 2020 10:43 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RPChristians
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RPChristians/comments/gnkvmg/women_are_the_beloved_creation_of_gods_hand/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RPChristians/women-are-the-beloved-creation-of-gods-hand-before.666333 https://theredarchive.com/post/666333