Q4M: Did you experience any anti-male bias during your education? Please read the full post before commenting.

couldbemage · 2020-05-28T04:02:50+00:00

My kids are both in high school. Son couldn't stand being in school, and has escaped to online school. Out of the school environment, he's doing decent academically. Daughter still doing great in school.

My son is a lot like me, and I'm like my dad. All of us are smart and all struggled in school. And by smart, I mean in the way it's measured at school, on standardised tests. I was a c student with nearly perfect sats.

I don't know about discrimination per se, but the school environment as it is doesn't suit typically male brained people.

Mind you, I liked college. I like learning. But I still didn't finish.

Well... Finished medic school, but that is different. Women fail medic school at a higher rate than men. At least at my school.

thatnomadsucks · 2020-05-28T06:16:35+00:00

I have worked in secondary and tertiary ed. Yes, boys and men get discriminated against in the classroom. But, I think that has more to do with a shift in pedagogy and policy over the past few decades. A few things to consider here are: 1. The emphasis on group learning (Kegan) doesn’t work for boys because they like to divide and conquer. 2. The shift towards emotional awareness starting in primary school doesn’t really consider our brains . 3. The abundance of women in the liberal arts (early childhood too) means that classrooms are often engineered to work better for girls. 4. The immense pressure boys are under to adapt to a world where gender roles aren’t well defined and financial security isn’t guaranteed.

I used to observe lessons done by trained teachers from upper class backgrounds. Most of what I saw was young, enthusiastic teachers force their views on their classes without much debate. Stuff isn’t so much read, analyze and form a well supported opinion anymore. It’s, here’s an article, read it and tell me why this option is correct.

I also think we’re failing boys in terms of support, mentorship and expectations. What they really need are the resources to collaborate without feeling judged in the pressure cooker they often grow up in. Not everyone’s competition and boys need strong male role models to guide them through the maze that is navigating this crazy world.

RedPill_is_a_cult · 2020-05-28T04:08:58+00:00

Never experienced hostility towards me in college, gender based or otherwise. I was in college from the fall of '01 - spring of '05 (edit). Demographics: white, middle class upbringing, neurotypical, straight, cis, was apolitical in college, lean heavy left now

Dropped out due to untreated depression, never went back due to a few factors. Katrina hit late that summer, and in the spring of '06, I was homeless.

Job I work now didn't require a degree, and the pay is amazing for the education level required. Only reason I'd ever go back is if I wanted to move into a corporate safety position, which would be a pay cut, but much less physically punishing.

darksoldierk · 2020-05-28T04:30:04+00:00

What kind of hostility are you looking for? Do you just want bias? I'll give you a few stories.

I was in grade 11 chemistry, so this was about, 2007. This teacher sucked. She was a big, middle aged woman who clearly hated her job. Anyway, she did a piss poor job of teaching and the textbook was basically written to supplement the teacher (ie. it was written expecting that the teacher would do her job and explain it). So, for the first month, a lot of people asked questions, the guys and girls. This wasn't remedial chemistry or some course we all did because we were forced to, this was an optional chemistry class, only available to the top students in the school. The students there were dedicated, all of us. We weren't there to pass an exam, we were there to learn. In grade 10, I was studying 6 hours a night, 5 days a week.

Anyway, so it didn't take long for the guys to notice a trend. The answer she would give every guy who asked a question was "read your text book", but when a girl asked a question, she went into detail explaining it, even staying afterschool to make sure the girl understood it. We did an experiment actually. A guy went and asked a question before class, and he was told to read his textbook even though he couldn't have asked that question if he didn't read his textbook. Then, we got our female peer to ask the exact same question, almost word for word. The teacher spent 2 hours after class explaining it. So, literally, every guy in the class, started making a list of questions that they had, they would give it to their female peers and ask them to ask the teacher that question. The guys sat outside the classroom after class or after school while the teacher was teaching it to the girl that asked, just so that we could hear the explanation, she (the teacher) refused to let us in the class and listen to the explanation and in one instance, she came outside the classroom to tell us that we were trespassing on school property.

A couple years before that, when I was in grade 8, I had an english teacher who felt like she had the obligation to explain to us that men are all potential rapists. I remember her taking up an entire class explaining to us why men cannot be raped. I still remember her words "a guy's penis cannot get hard if he doesn't want it to, therefore, men cannot be raped, they can only rape women". She said this to a bunch of 12 year olds. I'll never forget it. That same teacher, a couple months before, made an assignment where we had to illustrate, without using sentences, the difference between a romantic partner, and a friend and present it to the class. Keep in mind, this was an english teacher, teaching an english class, assigning a project that explicitly said to not use sentences. In that assignment, the average grade for the guys was a C-, and the average grade for the girls was a A-. I remember one assignment, the kid decided to draw a happy face representing a friend on one side, and a heart on the other side representing a romantic partner, he cut out the outline around the happy face. In his presentation, he explained that he didn't think you could have a romantic partner without them also being a friend, but he did think that you could have a friend without them being a romantic partner, that's why, he said, it made sense that the heart existed within the happy face outline. In the happy face and the heart, he drew illustrations of characteristics of a relationship and a friendship. So, on the happy face side, he had a picture kids riding bikes together, and on the heart side, he drew a bride and groom. He drew a bunch of other stuff that were meant to represent the characteristics of each type of relationship.

Was it stupid, yes, for sure. But this was a 12 year old kid who was asked to do something that most adults wouldn't be able to do. I remember his assignment in particular because I remember thinking "fuck, it's brilliant, why didn't I think of that!" while he was presenting. He failed the project. Not only did he fail, at the end of all the presentations, the teacher decided to hold up his assignment in class and say "this is an example of very low effort, it missed the point of the project all together, it was not what I had in mind at all". The thing is, I was a pretty social kid, I knew everyone and we were all friends. This guy had been freaking out since the assignment was assigned he had no clue how to approach it. After the teacher did what he did, he just became aloof. Didn't really want to talk to anyone in the class anymore, didn't really play at recess. It was a traumatic experience for him. He tried, he really tried.

Meanwhile, one of the girls simply brought in a bouquet of flowers and got an A.

So, that's my experience in middle school and highschool, lets move on to college, shall we?

So, I'm at college in 2009. It's second year and I'm doing some bullshit business communications course. Surprisingly enough, my professor turned out to be incredible. It was a boring class, so I expected old proffs who couldn't give two shits and just taught the course to teach it. We got a young professor, who was maybe in his mid 30's. And he gave a shit. one of our biggest assignments ( I think it was 60% of our mark, and the exam was 40%) was a presentation. A couple weeks after the presentations, we received our marks. I remember one of the girls standing up in class and saying "If you don't change my mark, I'm going to complain to the dean that you sexually harassed me and you'll get fired". I shit you not. We all chuckled thinking it was a joke. The proff responded and said "First of all, if you can get a hold of the dean, please let me know, I've been trying to reach him for a while. You'd have better luck going to [whatever department it was]. Second, the grades cannot be changed, you got what you got". A week later, we had a different proff. When we asked the new proff if the other proff got fired, he said "no, he was reassigned to the other campus", The other campus was in another city. The following semester, I actually had a class in that other campus, and happened to pass the first proff in the hall. We talked a bit and I asked him if she actually complained. He said "yeah, she did". And I asked him what happened, he said "well, when a student makes that kind of complaint about a proff, it puts the administration in a very difficult situation. Obviously it can't be proven. So, they reassigned me. I don't like it, but that's just how it had to be. I won't be able to teach at that other campus again". I asked how they came to that conclusion in less than a week, and he said "what were they going to do? an actual investigation? no, that's too expensive, this was the cheapest way for the college". He also told me they changed her grade, which I already knew because she was in one of my classes in that following semester that required the business com course as prerequisite.

Is that enough stories for you, or shall I go on? I can tell you about those wonderful assemblies that they forced the boys into (while the girls went out for recess) once a year in primary school, where a bunch of middle aged fat women told 10 year old boys that wanting skinny, pretty women is evil, and they should be ashamed for wanting skinny women. Want to hear that one?

By the way, I'm in canada, I grew up in canada, all of these stores occurred in canada, in case you were thinking it was in some third world shithole.

Blightning421 · 2020-05-28T12:16:54+00:00

I was told by an English teacher that it was men's jobs to get drafted and die in wars, and that women should be kept safe

She also claimed to be a staunch feminist and when I pointed out that the draft was unequal she replied with "its mens' job to die"

That was the first time I realized what feminism really is

89320420934 · 2020-05-28T03:01:08+00:00

I'm not really sure if it is even that schools are "hostile" towards boys/men, but the media is as a whole. There are special interest groups (relevant ones) for every group except for boys. It makes a child feel kind of weird.

Something I remember overhearing as a kid was teacher who was a woman complaining about how men are portrayed as being stupid in the media so frequently. It seems pretty common to make fun of the arrogant masculine man who is an idiot while the smart woman plays him along. Here's one source that explains it in commercials: https://www.cantechletter.com/2017/07/men-always-idiots-tv-ads/

There always seemed to be some kind of peer pressure making me feel like being too smart was bad. lol. I'm not really sure if this is something that others felt. Maybe girls felt the same way, but IDK.

There's the other thing where boys don't really seem to be allowed to fuck around as much. Like, now schools go to the police if kids get in a fight or over some other stupid issue. I'm kinda just shooting in the dark here though. Stories from my grandpa make it seem like things were wayyy more free 50 years ago.

Overall, most girls seem to work harder in school though. I'm not sure if it's due to social constructs, testosterone, or something else.

ElectricalStatement7 · 2020-05-28T04:47:18+00:00

In school? No. That was a long time ago, but a few years ago I started college. Quite a different experience. Over here in the UK I wouldn’t say it’s anti male in an especially hostile way, but boys are being left behind. Girls are given preferential treatment from teachers, whilst boys are expected to just understand what’s being taught more so. I’ve seen girls get marked less harshly, given more favourable grades than they should have been given. Never seen a boy get that kinda treatment. In disputes, girls virtually always receive preferential treatment, regardless of if they’re actually in the wrong or not too.

I’ve always been a grade A student personally, so it’s not like it bothers me too much that the girls get it easier on average. The inequality of it does sure though. What annoys me more is the constant light shaming of men we get from teachers and faculty staff. Nicely curated and politically correct feminist messages thrown at us. Bringing up that patriarchy, wage gap and sexism shite any chance they get as though women’s problems are the only ones that exist and as though I have anything to fucking do with them. Oh and if you challenge them, even just on logical terms, you’re labelled a misogynist. It irritates me having to constantly police what I say just so I won’t get shittier grades (yes, disagreeing with the political groupthink is not good for you academically, I’ve seen people get screwed before).

I think one of the worst times, when I wanted to speak out the most, is when I had to sit through some bullshit presentation about sexual harassment. Surprise surprise, it was centred on guys and the message was quite clear, guys are all potential rapists, women are damsels in distress. It’s times like those I’ve found it most difficult not to tell them their presentations were just, quite ironically, sexist drivel.

Now I’m a mature student, I went to school in the 90s. Back then, things were very different over here, but things have changed drastically.

Smoogs2 · 2020-05-28T02:38:15+00:00

Sure. I think there surely exists a ‘girl power’ and ‘female empowerment’ attitude that is lacking when it comes to boys. There is no equivalent real male empowerment message. Now you could say “blah blah patriarchy” but what good does that do to an 8 year old boy?

“Oh your message of empowerment is absent because people with the same genitals as you in the past hurt the feels of women in the present” doesn’t make sense as an adult, never mind to a child.

ElectricalStatement7 · 2020-05-28T06:36:24+00:00

You answer your own question when you say this.

Men’s learning styles make it more difficult to succeed in college (but for what ever reason it worked when men were the majority of college students, but OK)

I read this and initially I took a bit of umbrage with it because it's just factually not correct. Schools and colleges have changed over the last 60 years. Men have been entirely driven out of primary education. The size of admin teams have drastically increased. The number of support teams has increased. The way courses are delivered has changed. The way courses are structured has changed. A huge number of things have changed. It's entirely likely that some of those things have changed in a way that detriments on men's success in college.

And I realize this isn't the question you're asking; you're asking why colleges are seen as hostile towards men. This is why; this opinion and attitude is prevalent in college education. Men say "well the courses aren't structured in a way that I find engaging and the assessments aren't built in a way that I can intuitively handle" and it gets dismissed without a second thought.

And in one of these comment threads, you respond;

Strangely I’ve been listening to coworkers talk about how they’re kids are managing right now with online learning and I have heard a few people say their daughters are struggling but their sons aren’t.

I don't know if you read quite what I read out of this. You're paying attention to something that's going on here; you're paying attention to the fact that your friends' daughters are struggling. It doesn't come with a dismissive comment in brackets. It's presented as a genuine concern. An entirely reasonable one, as well! But...

Men's learning style not conducive to success in college? You say 'not a real problem'.

Women's learning style not conducive to success in online learning? No comment.

And you wonder why men might find this environment hostile.

TheGirlGetter9000 · 2020-05-28T03:52:20+00:00

In HS? No discrimination.

In college? You're bombarded with way too many "women's issues," many of which aren't even real issues. And voicing any opinion other than "she is a queen and I admire her bravery" is not allowed

2020-05-28T02:54:32+00:00

Did you experience any anti-male bias during your education?

YES.

Did you experience any anti-male bias during your job search?

YES.

Did you experience any anti-male bias at work?

YES.

Did you experience any anti-male bias in the course of doing business?

YES

Did you experience any anti-male bias in every daylife?

YES

SherbertBacon · 2020-05-28T02:35:20+00:00

If you agree that the educational system is hostile toward boys and men, is that because you personally experienced or witnessed that hostility?

I wouldn't say "hostile" but if I'm mulling over my public education years (pre-uni), I think there were signs of bias that trouble-maker/struggling boys were more a "lost cause" than the trouble-maker/struggling girls. I think this gets amplified because girls are raised to often speak up and ask for help quickly and early, but in boys it's seen as weakness. So the boys who have trouble (a) don't ask for help when they struggle and (b) the teachers interpret this as lack of drive (e.g. my brother wouldn't tell his teacher when he did the homework but left it at home by mistake—something a teacher might have given partial credit for if he brought it later that day, etc.). Since the public education system is already strained, it's simply too much emotional effort to ask teachers to extend themselves regularly to what they mistakenly see as "lost causes."

The boys who go middle-of-the-road or are achievers aren't treated any worse in my experience, it's really just the difference between struggling boys vs. girls.

So in short, no I don't think most men avoid college just because they're worried of being treated poorly, it's more like the ones treated poorly/unfairly never made it as far as college in the first place. They'd certainly have a jaded perception of school in general, but I want to distance this from "librul schoolz h8 menz!1!"

Dan240z · 2020-05-28T03:01:49+00:00

The whole curriculum is anti-male most of the stuff we learn in school is pretty much useless for the most part.

diffdedbed · 2020-05-28T12:56:34+00:00

I've found with my kids the schools aren't anti-male but pro-female.

Example that stuck me the most was in my kids grade school.

They had an advanced math class. To qualify you had to have certain scores on testing. It was all boys. The solution for this "problem" was to give girls who were close to the cut off extra help. Only girls. Not boys that are close too, because this was not about helping students but some sort of fake equality. If they would have helped all students near it would be great but no just girls get that extra help and resources.

I think there is so much of this in stem trying to encourage women into subjects that most just don't' want to do that it as a side effect discourages boys. All the programs I've seen isn't "science is for everyone" but "science is for girls!". Even TV shows on science topics will constantly feature women, and if a new discovery has 5 team members, one female, you know who's getting the bulk of the interviews.

Its worrisome because these are important subjects to have the best of the best in, not pulling up the margins to look good on a diversity spread sheet.

reluctantly_red · 2020-05-28T05:28:54+00:00

I never experienced any anti-male bias. Not during undergrad in Canada. Not during law school in Oregon. Campuses are actually areas that are pretty much free from sex based discrimination. I'm a traditionally masculine type of guy (at least superficially). The only time it was ever an issue was when a guy who wanted to steal my GF made it an issue but that was pretty easy to laugh off.

abaxeron · 2020-05-28T06:25:11+00:00

Can you share some of your personal experiences? Or is it more of a “I never experienced it but I can believe it” kind of thing?

For starters, I graduated high school in early 2000s in Eastern Europe, where (depending on a subregion) anywhere from 85 to 95 percent of teachers were female, and racial composition of the population looked roughly like "94% white Slavic/Christian; 2% Asian; 2% Caucasian Turkic (White by American standards but with heavy Middle Eastern admixture; some are Christians, some are Muslims); 2% White Muslim (mostly Tatars)". I was of the lucky ones, since I managed to ram my way into elite school that actually allowed expulsions into "ordinary" schools; other schools allowed them only into correctional schools, where the expelled would be accompanied by literal retards and juvies; since this measure was more extreme, it was applied only in extreme cases (and required tons of paperwork).

The most blatant, obvious, and early way female teachers favored female students was their handwriting style.

The stupidest was male hairstyles (guys were disciplined both for having long hair, and for trimming it too short).

It was obvious to anyone with eyes to see how differently teachers reacted when male and female students had emotional breakdowns.

The only case I remember when a female teacher intervened in a (supposed) case of male-on-male student bullying and violence - is when she mistook my classmate showing me martial arts tricks for a conflict fight. It would have been hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

All of this faded in comparison with already mentioned "ordinary" schools, where teachers simply did nothing about anything beyond their bare minimum of responsibilities.

Koestritzer · 2020-05-28T11:06:04+00:00

This might be a bit of a stretch but I at least felt that my university was biased to a certain point. I had to take a course on gender issues in urban planning - I was studying environmental planning at that time. The course brought up some interesting points, like how it was historically men that went to work, and men who commuted thus vehicle traffic oriented cities were structurally biased against women. But besides that, it pretty quickly went downhill. There are more than 2 genders, but still everything is made to profit men (which is obviously contradictory). I was the only male in that class, and the only (and at that time, single) parent so struggle was not just a concept for me. Still, whenever I simply asked a question, especially about contradictory statements, I was basically shushed and stared down. I was pretty disappointed that behavior like this was part of an institution for higher learning.

poppy_blu · 2020-05-28T03:33:48+00:00

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sadomasochrist · 2020-05-28T03:34:43+00:00

I only had a major incident once and the teacher was from the middle east and had an axe to grind because she had experienced whatever and now it was time to flip the script.

Didn't really make much of a difference.

All in all, most teachers keep their head down and don't want to be divisive. Ratemyprof and all that factor into how a lot of teachers teach.

Getting a super hardass prof is way worse than one who hates men.

The one who hates men will dock you from a b\a to a b- or whatever but a hardass prof will fail you for giving the answer that is only 99% correct in essay format.

Everyone has accidentally gotten that prof once and you only need to learn that lesson once.

What you're worried about is only a problem at places like Yale, UCLA etc. Weirdo ultra liberal schools.

Even very liberal schools e.g. UW Madison aren't going to be outright hostile unless you intermingle with feminists.

Feminism is a college fad that is coming to a close. It's no longer cool, which is why YouTube girls are all angling to be hipster conservatives now.

Physiologist21 · 2020-05-28T05:40:42+00:00

Just some crazy ass feminist I had in undergrad, hated men, hated athletes. I wonder why.

cloudydays84 · 2020-05-28T08:05:59+00:00

Throughout and currently during my academic career as a man I've never really felt overtly discriminated by the system as a man, or like you said I've never really experienced much to any anti-male bias. For instance I go to a fairly liberal college which is fine and I don't believe I face any hostility. My major (anthropology) is slightly more female dominated (at least in my school) and I've never really been pushed out of circles because of it.

I don't want to avoid talking about it but I think intersectionality may play a role in that. I may be a man but I'm also a black man so many of the problems some people point out might not apply to me because I'm shield by the wall of "intersectional advantage". I may have been treated differently than my white male peers because the system at hand was trying to encourage minorities, so despite checking the box of man I also checked black. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened but I don't want to throw the possibility out the window. Taking my major into account again there are very few black and minority students (male or female) within it so it's likely that some of us are even being encouraged to stay to give the field some diversity and perspective.

BudgetSeaworthiness1 · 2020-05-28T10:07:57+00:00

Absolutely. I had one history teacher openly talk about how all the bad things in history has been caused by men, and how behind every great man stands a woman.

I had to write an extra essay for pointing out that hitler had 7 wives.

I also saw girls start to cry during tests, upon which the teacher would go over and help them.

During PE women got the same grades for far less effort. Obviously less results are one thing, but I saw a girl literally throw a spear backwards and she still got an A. Not sure about other countries, but an A in PE is worth as much as one in physics etc.

Also, every single time I’ve been hit in school it’s been by a girl who obviously faced no repercussions whatsoever.

It got better when I got older and I didn’t notice any more bias after I turned 16, but The early years was just a never ending source of small minor adjustments to make the girls lives easier. Basically a padded existence, while simultaneously telling all the boys how hard women’s lives are and how men are bad.

Matt_Door · 2020-05-28T10:33:55+00:00

I had an awful experience in school for the most part, and I actually like learning and reading and sitting still and doing my work. I was horribly bullied, mostly by the boys but girls too, and was regarded as a nuisance by the (all female) teachers as a result, even though they acknowledged I was a bright student. None of my tormentors were hauled in the Principals office, but I would be and grilled why I can’t control myself, what do I let them get to me, why can’t you just ignore them? Basically, it’s your fault you are being bullied.

Went to school in the 80’s and 90’s, so with all the moral panics and AIDS and DARE and all that shit felt like, for boys anyway, we were being bombarded with a lot of “no!” messages, don’t do this don’t do that, hold yourself back, step back because it’s the girls turn and they can do everything better than boys and they’re special, and you’re not you awful little toad, you’re just a rapist who hasn’t done it yet.

University had its campus lesbian feminist marxists professor stereotypes but I felt like I got an even shake from them, even if their biases did creep in from time to time.

I also have a son, he’s in the 4th grade and I have been very involved in his education as a result of my own childhood experiences. I go to the school, I do the parent teach interviews, and I make sure his teachers know I am very involved and take his education seriously. Our modern school system is garbage for the most part, and my wife and I have had to teach him the fundamentals the school just seems to skip over, we’ve had to get him help outside of school to make up for what the schools aren’t teaching him. He said he learns more in the few hours of tutoring he gets a week than all week he sits in school. The problem kids get all the attention or destroy everyone else’s learning because the schools have to be inclusive now and problem kids aren’t separated out and given the direct help they need, they have to be with all the other kids. And when one of these little shits starts throwing chairs at students or the teacher the teachers just do nothing because they can’t put physical hands on them. This was happening in grade 1, 6 year olds!

Creation_Soul · 2020-05-28T10:43:56+00:00

I will just comment on the male learning style point.

In my experience, men tend to be very good in certain classes, but very bad at others. On the other hand, girls tend to be more "stable" in their grades. For example, in highschool, in the top 5 of the class there were 4 girls and 1 boy (me). I was better at maths, physics and IT classes than the girls, but i absolutely sucked at literature (especially) and 1 or two other classes. At the end of the year, on overall grades I would be 2nd or 3rd because the difference between my best and worst subjects was bigger than that of the girls.

I studied computer science in college, so me sucking at literature didn't have an impact. But even at college, the best were mostly men (partly due to skewed gender ratios in computer science), but girls were over-represented in the top half of best students (as reported by grades), because men tended to do really well in classes they liked, but absolutely bombed anything they didn't like. Also, women tended to fail less exams than men (and yes, I was taking into account the skewed gender ratio).

poppy_blu · 2020-05-28T10:51:43+00:00

It was clear from secondary school (11-16) that education catered towards women. Teachers practically had friendships with the girls at school but as boys we were always shut down for wanting to be more active. During physical education, boys and girls were split apart during winter and boys would have to train outside while the girls stayed indoors. This is because the girls complained about being cold but, let me tell you, it wasn't fun for the boys either but we always had to take the fall. Teachers were also clearly less tolerant with mischievous boys in comparison to mischievous girls. With all of this being said, most of the teachers were women and so there would have been bias.

throwawaylolfml1 · 2020-05-28T13:26:05+00:00

Ik this is not a big one, but school banned shorts for guys and not for girls, in my class there are 40 ish females and only 16 males, all the tutors are female and it feels utterly weird because those female tutors clearly care more about any questions asked by the female students.

Kralamansion · 2020-05-28T16:09:32+00:00

By the time you are 6 every teacher/parents make you sure to remind you every hours that girl are smarter/more mature/more independent ect...

Hrdbldbbsndrkchclt · 2020-05-28T16:31:05+00:00

yes, I had an art teacher in high school that said boys get more tutelage than girls, so she's not gonna help us boys

and she didn't

FeniZio94 · 2020-05-28T18:18:20+00:00

Absolutely

I had a business communication feminist teacher... which had MULTIPLE complaints from male students... my university hasn’t done anything, and she’s even gone to purposefully lose assignments done by male students (what happened to me), try to fail people and force male students to retake her course in order to fail them or indoctrinate them.

That teacher tried to fail me because I complained about a female student insulting MY NAME in class (calling me pretentious for saying my whole name - cultural thing -). Thankfully I didn’t had to take anymore classes with her.

That professor actively humiliated male students during presentations, exams, assignments, etc.

And she’s still a favorite in my former faculty

wekacuck · 2020-05-28T02:55:19+00:00

Not really. At most in college and grad school there were teachers who ran sort of support or social groups or study groups for women only and sometimes you felt a little left out. But it didn't really bother me. There were some scholarships and awards that were specifically for women but it seems petty to see that as a negative thing.

When I was a TA, I used to run tutoring sessions for struggling students and it was like pulling teeth to get male students who needed to be there to show up. Women seemed to be less prideful about it and organized themselves more into groups to help each other. The best women students would show up to help other women.

But no, I never felt punished for being male or anything. When I failed or struggled it was always my own damn fault.

Edit to add: generalizing but the male students who struggled the most were the the ones who didn't come from preps and didn't have parents who had been to college. There were well publicized programs to help mentor women and minorities.

poppy_blu · 2020-05-28T04:15:37+00:00

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poppy_blu · 2020-05-28T03:04:45+00:00

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poppy_blu · 2020-05-28T06:17:49+00:00

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xinf3ct3d · 2020-05-28T06:20:39+00:00

I did not have tertiary education and might not ever obtain it but I can tell you about my secondary education.

In middle school we had a day when a woman who worked at a women's shelter came to our school and told us about her job.

She was very professional and did not try to frame the discussion in a way that puts all men (or boys in that case) in the defensive. I think she knew that the moment she implies that all men are at fault she would lose all boys in the room.

orcscorper · 2020-05-28T07:53:27+00:00

Yes, I experienced anti-male bias during my education. It probably prepared my for the real world more than most of my classes ever did.

As usual for bloops and other feminists, you missed the point about why the manosphere brings up things like the education gap. It's not to claim oppression; that's what feminists do. It's to debunk claims of oppression. Western women aren't oppressed in the least, and here is evidence to back the assertion.

Oppression may not cause the problems boys have in school, but yet another program to encourage more girls to go into STEM sure isn't going to solve any of them.

As I learned in school, if you are female people want to help you and are happy to spend someone else's money to do it. If you are male, sit down and shut up. Deal with it yourself. Then feminists wonder why men are more likely to be conservative.

phalanxbg · 2020-05-28T08:22:21+00:00

There were outright double standards - girls who did absolutely nothing during the school year were able to pass with As extremely easily with 1 assignment while guys who were active throughout the year had to constantly perform. I saw the futility and I just ended up stopping performing well in school

acron5n5 · 2020-05-28T09:35:46+00:00

Q4M: Did you experience any anti-male bias during your education?

From what I observed in school for girls it was easier to get away with doing literally nothing. But some guys did so as well I must admit. Here the education from kindergarten all through to doctoral degree is state-funded and financed per student, so you must do something outstanding to be dropped out.

Please read the full post before commenting

Haha no, I am reading titles only.

SilentLurker666 · 2020-05-28T14:04:16+00:00

What is true is that a higher proportion of college degrees are going to women today. If you look at the data, you’ll see that enrollment rates have risen steadily over the years, but the number of women enrolling in college has skyrocketed compared to men

Does this take account of the general increase of population over time?

If you agree that the educational system is hostile toward boys and men, is that because you personally experienced or witnessed that hostility? Can you share some of your personal experiences? Or is it more of a “I never experienced it but I can believe it” kind of thing?

Title IX is very good example of the double standard that's been shown to the male gender, that and ofcourse mandatory "gender equality" courses which paints the male in a very unfavorable light.

wtknight · 2020-05-28T16:06:17+00:00

I had a feminist professor in college who didn't seem to like anything I wrote even though I was doing well in my other classes, but seemed to love everything that the women in the class wrote. This was just one isolated incident, though. I also had a different feminist professor who thought my writing was great, so I'm not really making an attack on feminism in education. I just think that there are certain educators out there who want to see women do well at the expense of men, just as their are probably (in science and tech fields) some male educators who want to see men do well at the expense of women.

I don't believe the "women are more suited for school" argument either. Men still do very well at the most elite levels of education. I just think that there are some men who have never done well at traditional education, but they had manufacturing and trades to fall back on much more in the past than they do now due to automation and job outsourcing. Because the nature of the job market has changed, educational expectations have changed, and we need to do a better job of socializing men from blue-collar backgrounds into the expectations of the current education system.

Karmanger · 2020-05-28T16:07:17+00:00

When I was in High school there was a strong anti-male bias. It was clear that the females could get away with a lot more. Start a school fight? go home for the day and think about what you did, Get caught giving a blowjob in an empty classroom? slap on the wrist for her and his parents had to come to talk to the Dean.

I'll never forget the day I was walking down the hallway to the bathroom and a girl (who probably liked me) snuck up behind me and put me in a headlock. I was confused and shocked that anyone even dare do that to me. I had my hands up and said get off me.

This Teacher....walked out the classroom... took one look at the situation and told me to go to office. I was enraged, the only reason I wasn't suspended that day was because My guidance counselor happened to see what happened and stuck up for me.

My school was so sexist that by the time I graduated I was one of 6 men to get their degree. This was all due to Hillary Clinton deeming Black boys super predators.... It influenced the educational system and caused teachers to act harsher on kids of color.

I hated my school life, They would try and keep me after school on average till about 6pm and they would force me to clean the school as a form of "punishment".

usa_foot_print · 2020-05-28T17:01:27+00:00

School wasn't particularly hostile in my eyes towards men. It was just bias against men. 50 some women engineering scholarships for the 3 women that went while 5 for the 60 men that went. It definitely jades the average dude.

gunbusterxl · 2020-05-28T17:32:46+00:00

Oh god yes.

I went back to school to change careers, and was completely blown away by how anti-male my school is. My current program, which I had to do an entire other degree just to participate because it's "competitive", has 9 people in it. Of those 9 people, 2 are male. There used to be 3, but one got weeded out already and I KNOW he wasn't doing the worst in the program (he was unattractive, though).

I've given up trying to get any scholarships, because since I have a penis I "don't really need one". I spent several weeks over the Christmas break working on a charity program for women. There was no equivalent for men, and when I asked why the charity couldn't just be for everyone, I was told that men could easily just get another job and none of them have to worry about childcare.

To be fair, all of my classmates are fine. It's just the faculty I have issues with.

TechnicalMight0 · 2020-05-28T18:49:40+00:00

Yes, I have, in a way. It was not so much in university because I was in a STEM field and always was good at having friendships with girls. But in high school the assignments were definitely set up in a way that favors girls (my drive to get out of my shitty town and make something out of myself barely won out against my hormone-fueled teenage rebelliousness against making homework and properly studying by myself) and this was 15 years ago in a school that was old-fashioned for the time. From what I hear from younger people and people, both male and female, who went to more "modern" schools it's gotten a lot worse, plus almost all teachers are female now and universities and colleges around here gave started to use motivational interviews in the admission process, which strongly favors rich white girls over anyone else.

Ordinate1 · 2020-05-28T19:19:13+00:00

Lots, yes.

I went to college for physics, which is an overwhelmingly male-dominated discipline... not because of sexism, but because it is crazy difficult and most women (and lots of men) change majors pretty quickly.

The problem was that, due to efforts to get more women into the field and limited budgets, female students got all of the support. I did not have a senior project, because there was no money left after funding a bunch of projects by women who then changed majors.

We will not even discuss the general education classes, where extreme political correctness was enforced by an iron fist, or campus activists berating anything they saw as denigrating feminism.

Cobra_x30 · 2020-05-28T20:06:58+00:00

It’s been a long time since I was in school. I’m afraid I don’t remember all that much from early on. I do know that I generally put women on a pedestal, and was taught that most problems were caused by men. I was also taught to be very protective of women... stuff like that.

I graduated college in 2003. I have a science degree that I use at work every day. I make very good money.

I’m going to point something out. The boys missing in college that make up that extraordinary gap... are boys from low income households. Predominantly black and Latino boys, but also poor white boys too.

I have this suspicion that the achievement gap has a lot to do with societal expectations.

CraptainToad · 2020-05-28T20:17:42+00:00

Didn't experience much if any anti male bias

I did develop an anti computer science bias

Workaholiconew · 2020-05-28T20:27:44+00:00

Well... yes. But I live in Brazil, so what I experience may not reflect elsewhere. We have a serious problem of ideologues in academia around here.

Scholarships/Ed. Credit have priority to women, and all kinds of minorities.
1. Because of Brazilian education law and by institutional rules.
There is obvious preference (but thank god, not priority) for women and all kinds of minorities in higher education be teaching or learning.
1. Also Brazilian education law and institutional rules.
Anyone not constantly working for the left (like most males) are constantly harassed by the local leftists (the reason Bolsonaro was elected, and has been almost killed a number of times)
1. like the every other yearly tradition where the university activists impede the 'authoritarian courses students' like business, economics, accountability, engineering, etc. students to make their finals, in the hopes to force them to quit or fail a year.
2. Protests every presidential election with the clear intent to hinder the classes of their perceived 'authoritarian courses' by drowning the lessons in noise.
Men are harassed by their presence in campus, if dealing with certain troublesome people (activists, feminists, leftists, socialists... the list goes on)
1. Not few times, 'activists' would scream and even hit me because I was a male professor lecturing to a mostly female class (because again, men are barred from entering in the first place)
2. They also have the audacity to say I don't teach well my female students, because I use both sexes preferred teaching styles instead of just the female one. Yeah, my female students don't go as high. But our male students don't go as down either. I teach everyone, KAROL. (our karen's)
Most teaching methods of most professors is terrible for anyone but the most feminine of women. (Women of today are quite masculine, so this teaching method is bad for them too)
1. Stories and narratives are good and dandy, but make men sleep. Men and non feminine women need direct teaching and exercises in order to learn, which is kind of hard when we are forced to go on and on about 'experiences' instead of you know... concepts?.
Most non STEM fields, are actually quite useless for men.
1. Well... they are overcrowded. Not really worth their money or investment. I would say it to anyone, but to men it is even worse as they do not have the facility to learn in these areas as women do, nor these courses have any intention on helping their men.
It is almost impossible to up in academia if you go against the politics of a department chief. (Leftists or socialist. Depends on the elections)
1. I've had to fix one article criticizing the federal government 8 fucking times because I was criticizing debt on a 'wrong framework'. I.e. 'neoliberal'. I had to go all the way to marx to criticize debt, and it is a mark in my curriculi to this day. As none likes someone who says the government should cut spending/accumulating debt.
2. I have to constantly change my articles to seem like they agree with leftist politics, but which somehow misfired against it by mistake, or I cant publish it.
3. Up to this day, my professor, who oriented me in academia, has absolutely no idea we disagree in politics, because he cannot accept anything but what he considers 'the greater good'.
4. There is no money for research and you cannot take any coordination if you agree or even mention in non derogatory terms the 'wrong people', including, Bolsonaro, Temer (ex president), Fernando Henrique Cardoso (ex president), Trump, Bush, and for some god damn reason, Margaret Thatcher for... get it... being a woman in politics... You can't represent women in politics if you have the wrong politics it seems.

basedmillennial95 · 2020-05-29T00:26:15+00:00

Too many to recount although I didn't realize it till I was older.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-05-29T11:39:41+00:00

Later education like college I had mostly male teachers so no. But early education was kinda horrible.

Most of the teachers were female like everyone of my First to Fifth grade teachers. I'm quiet and reserved even more so before I turned 14 preferred to do my work and read and otherwise be left alone.

Female teachers forced socialization on me. And Generally some where hostile towards me. I don't react to things fully like other people I kinda had the quiet composure and I think alot of women dislike that coldness.

RahLyt · 2020-05-30T13:51:26+00:00

I always felt discriminated by being a guy but maybe not on the way you're thinking, I'm also black so I don't really know which was the cause. One of the easier things to notice was the fact that teachers always assumed hostility in guys behaviour "Oh girls are talking? Just girls being girls, they are the social gender", "guys are talking? They are trying to disrupt the class". That's how it always was female teachers really lack empathy to male students in general. That repeated until highschool was over.

Dublin_M4ledom · 2020-06-01T01:29:21+00:00

male intelligence is precisely equal to female intelligence, although the distribution differs a little. Male distributions have fatter tails.

The college admissions system is only useful to the extent that it accurately selects for ability.

The college admissions system is massively favoring women, but there's zero evidence that female IQ has risen so high above males that this is justified.

Evidence suggests that the system is rigged in women's favour, because we know for certain that high-ability men are just as numerous as high-ability women, but only the latter group are having any success with college admissions.

therealMericGetler · 2020-05-28T03:31:14+00:00

sure, every single damn woman has access to a bunch of extra opportunities just for having a vajayjay. All the student government thots who don't have the skills to do the job but are like "I'm a minority, vote for equality"... etc

all the feminazis and shit when there's more women than men around.

like, a lot of it is equally anti-right, which may be why I'm particularly wary, but in short, it's campus culture, more so than educators necessarily.

but also, those moments when a prof made shit up to tear into my essay (like, literally accused me of not doing/doing stuff that was objectively untrue, and confirmed as bs by about half a dozen unbiased people, but a dumbish chick got an a from him; idk if she blew him but yeah.).

the_calibre_cat · 2020-05-28T03:56:15+00:00

They see college campuses as hostile toward men.

This is... true. I mean, you SHOULD still go to college as a dude, but I'm under no delusions that diversity initiatives or the University Diversity Officers who implement them are... actually equal opportunity people.

Actually equal opportunity people... don't go into that line of work. I had to take a Women's Studies course - mandatorily - when I went to college. They were totally super cool to the dudes, I'm sure all of us didn't feel personally attacked for the crimes committed against women hundreds of years before I was born (we did). Also, I totally believe that this is entirely a fresh, responsible purely academic pursuit, and totally isn't all about making dudes feel like shit (I don't).

They think they can be the next Bill Gates, ie delusions of grandeur.

They should do this.

Men’s learning styles make it more difficult to succeed in college (but for what ever reason it worked when men were the majority of college students, but OK)

...men's learning styles were accommodated - for better or for worse - when men were the majority of college students. You know who's the majority of teachers nowadays, and wasn't when men were the majority of college students? They're female. A rising number of college professors are female nowadays too, and while that's okay... we actually do have some data that the sex of a student's teachers, particularly in their formative years in school, does in fact matter.

I know it's not what the turbo social justice warrior "everybody is exactly the same and biology doesn't matter ever" crew wants to hear, but it's true.

Immaturity compared to their female peers

I mean, probably. Women literally do go through puberty sooner. Men are a reckless bunch, but the college entry date doesn't change... and shouldn't. That would put men at a significant career disadvantage compared to women.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-05-28T04:00:41+00:00

I don't remember any anti male bias. The only little detail I remember is that we used to get hammered in by teachers that girls were delicate princesses that we should treat with care. This was to prevent girls getting hurt when boy were being boys in the schoolyard.

Besides that, I don't think there's an active effort to not allow males on unis - this just sounds like the other face of the wage gap coin. I think that males are simply deciding not to enroll because they don't see the benefit and they have no motivation to go out there and prove themselves.

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Title	Q4M: Did you experience any anti-male bias during your education? Please read the full post before commenting.
Author	poppy_blu
Upvotes	23
Comments	275
Date	May 28, 2020 2:20 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/grxkqt/q4m_did_you_experience_any_antimale_bias_during/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-did-you-experience-any-anti-male-bias-during.669623 https://theredarchive.com/post/669623