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If there are any feminists on this subreddit who do not want to be represented by those who we ridicule, please step forward.

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February 7, 2020

For the longest time, I have made it my mission to get both sides of every story. The only one I have yet to prove is if there are actually feminists of there who disagree with the ones that represent them. We as a community on this subreddit will listen to you, answer questions you need, and ease your mind off the chaos. Never let anyone say your wrong because they are. But I only ask one thing. If someone tries to answer a question or correct a statement, check their statement before you make yours.

Post Information
Title If there are any feminists on this subreddit who do not want to be represented by those who we ridicule, please step forward.
Author UnLiberal04
Upvotes 68
Comments 42
Date 07 February 2020 03:58 AM UTC (8 months ago)
Subreddit antifeminists
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/707180
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/f04vtr/if_there_are_any_feminists_on_this_subreddit_who/
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[–]baloonSpot25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy

Hi! I am a feminist! I'm from Italy and, there, vocabulary definition of feminism is "social fight for gender equality" and I believe in that with my soul. And I'm not the only one: all the content provider I follow have that same vision of feminism. We all fight for women and men both, because they both need to be protected from sexism. I never knew feminism could be SO SICK AND TWISTED outside my little world, so now I get it why people who are not from Italy do not Call themselves feminists.

(I do hope this comment fits the post and that's what the kind of experience you wanted to hear about)

[–]GuineaIncel12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Feminism just keeps going further and further Left. A feminist in 1970 would be considered a Conservative by 2020 feminist standards.

[–]Diogenes--4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Conservative" isn't in the 2020 feminist dictionary. Anyone who doesn't agree with them 100% - even 99.999% isn't enough - is an alt-right incel Nazi white supremacist, as well as any other buzzwords the little toddler picked up from listening to other kids chatting on tumblr.

[–]seanisgeynt7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's why I brand myself as an egalitarian, because people don't hate egalitarians like they do feminists, because of how fucked society is.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes, this fits here perfectly. I myself used to call myself an actual antifeminist, but then I realized that the movement was not the problem, it was the ones that represented it. While I'm still not a feminist, I do ensure that anyone around me is treated fairly and tests others fairly. Thank you for your comment.

[–]Mar_Ci10 points11 points  (30 children) | Copy

I'm what is called a liberal feminist (not to be confused with someone who is both a liberal and a feminist). It's an ideology where women are granted equal opportunities and rights but meanwhile not pressured into choosing - just for the sake of the feminist movement - career over family or exhausting jobs if they choose the traditional family model as their way of life, especially if typically male-dominated activities are above their abilities. As such, I aggressively oppose female-quotas, positive discrimination and wage-gap compensation just as negative discrimination against women. Also I despise radical faminists who see males as oppressors and rapists by birth and use the feminist movement to compensate for their lack of self-confidence or to get revenge.

[–]OBeliskPhantasm6 points7 points  (28 children) | Copy

Radical feminists are the fucking worst.

[–]Diogenes---3 points-2 points  (27 children) | Copy

"I have more respect for a man who lets me know where he stands - even if he is wrong! - than for one who comes up to me like an angel when he's really the devil" - Malcolm X

All feminists hate men, boys, masculinity... maleness itself. I have more respect for the radical feminists, because they admit it. Liberal feminists claim not to hate men, but they support the feminist hate movement so they obviously do hate men. At least be honest.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 4 points5 points  (26 children) | Copy

Re read the original comment. Is she hating us, no. Its not all of them. And I hope, its not most.

[–]Diogenes---2 points-1 points  (25 children) | Copy

Is she hating us, no

Of course she claims not to hate us. She's a libfem. A liar. A sweet-talker who tells you it's just rain when they're pissing all over you. And you believe it.

VAWA and Title IX are federal US laws which punish innocent men. They exist because of pressure by the feminist hate group upon the democrat hate party.

When Betsy DeVos attempted to reform Title IX under the Trump administration, feminazis got together to protest against the reform. When & where have women ever gathered to protest against feminism? To protest against punishing innocent men?

They have not. And they never will. Because they hate us. At least the radfems don't add insult to injury by lying about it. They openly admit to hating men, and while they and their ideology are evil, I can at least respect their honesty and am grateful for it. Can't say the same about libfems. They're the worst of the bunch.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy

Although I understand what you are saying, she also pointed out that she is not that type of liberal feminist. She is not liberal, as in far left, but believes in a democratic republic. Not all feminists are bad.

[–]Diogenes---1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy

Christ, I know what a libfem is.

My post went over your head, jesus. You sound like a pornsick beta envisioning OP as a cute nerdgirl you might get with lol. In reality she weighs 500 lb. and is really hairy.

Feminism is a hate movement. Re-read my post.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy

Kid, I'm too fuckin ugly to be looking for a girl. In defending those who have not shown me hate.

[–]Diogenes---1 points0 points  (8 children) | Copy

I'm in my 40s, kiddo. I haven't shown you any hate, only a low-T, soy-fueled, "Words Are Violence" nu-male would think I did. And that is exactly what you are. No hate, just observation of fact. Your valiant defense of M'Lady OP won't get you in bed with her, but it might get me some karma on r/WhiteKnighting. Maybe I'll screenshot it later if I remember.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

I never said you did. I implied that she didn't.

[–]BlatantNapping-1 points0 points  (12 children) | Copy

There is so much that is wrongheaded about your comment it seems designed to fearmonger. It would take a very limited understanding of feminism to believe it has anything to do with hating men, to the point where you've probably done so little research you're not entitled to speak against it.

I don't deny there are women who tweet and speak about hating men. That's wrong and shouldn't be a part of feminist thought, and I'm part of a majority that actively calls it out when it happens. I can't say the other side does the same with the multitude of men who hate women. You can look all over the internet for that and it far outweighs the former.

I do hope that OP considers seriously how their ideas about feminism, which include looking for dialogue and serious discussions about advocating for men in today's society, end up being coopted by the kind of blustering conservative misogyny you represent.

[–]Diogenes--0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I can tell you're female, as the basic logic of what I said flew far over your head.

Feminism has pressured democrats into passing federal United States laws which punish innocent men. These are Jim Crow laws, in the year 2020, due to how much feminists hate men.

You are exactly what I described in my earlier reply. "I don't hate men, tee hee!" as your hate group passes Jim Crow laws against us. Like I said, I have more respect for radfems because while they hate men as much as libfems, libfems go the extra asshole step of lying to my face and saying they don't.

Christ, I'm done. The manhating is expected, the baldfaced lying on top of it is what ticks me off since it adds insult to injury. What are you planning to do with your womens' studies degree btw?

[–]BlatantNapping-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy

How expected for radicalized traditional conservatives to attempt to co-opt the suffering of minority groups. It's why you also rant about fEmiNaZis. I thought you all don't like people who play the victim?

I don't know how you can stand the dissonance while throughout history you've gone on crusades, carried out witch trials, and placed dictators into power. But now somehow you're disenfranchised in the same ways as black people who were literally lynched or any of the minorities sent to concentration camps?

Just for fun, though, which laws exactly are keeping men segregated from opportunities, earning power, high standards of living, let alone killing them? And how?

[–]Diogenes--0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Heh, didn't take much to make you show your true colors. Fuck you, manhating bigot.

[–]BlatantNapping0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Ah, right, because you can't actually explain how men are treated like Jim-Crow era people of color, I'm somehow duplicitous?

It's fine that you're unable to intelligently debate in support of your weird persecution complex, but you really shouldn't be an aggressive jerk about it. You're representing your own people rather poorly.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Although I appreciate how honest and truthful you are, the last part did throw me off. The "Conservative" group is more liberal. If you yourself consider yourself to be liberal, they (liberals today) will call you conservative. Before I knew the meaning, I considered myself conservative, because the people being called conservative were about equality, while the liberal groups were about superiority or bringing something down.

[–]BlatantNapping-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Hmm, I'm not sure if I totally follow. I'm from the US and I consider myself liberal in terms of current US politics.

I considered this commenter to be conservative because of their use of the term 'libfem' and 'feminazis' and support of Betsy DeVos, by that I mean (I haven't looked) but I wouldn't be suprised if they were active in TD and all that comes with being a Trump Supporter in 2020.

It's also interesting how we get into these places where your definition of my side and vice versa seem so disconnected. While you would say conservatives are about equality and liberals are about bringing people down, I would say conservatives are about protecting their own at whatever cost, and liberals are about bringing people up.

There's probably a good middle ground somewhere. Like while I like socialism I do see the issues with communism and I wouldn't want to take things from middle-class people who have earned them, I *would* like to see a halting of the wealth accumulation of the ridiculously wealthy who, I think, benefit unfairly from not having to pay enough taxes on what they receive through estates and investments. And I'd like to make sure that no one has to die just because they don't have enough money to get healthcare.

If I could try to put myself in the others' shoes, I would imagine that they see the kind of cronyism trump is doing but they think it's justified to push their values because they feel unheard. And they want to keep protections for wealthy people because they think they could be wealthy at some point? Maybe I'm actually not very good about doing this but I would listen earnestly to a discussion of the pros and cons of being a trump supporter if it didn't devolve into something as ridiculous as claiming that I hate men and want to enslave them.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

So, while I see why you would think the rich do not pay as much as us, it is simply because they pay just as much as us. Raising their taxes would result in less of an opportunity for people to be financially successful.

[–]BlatantNapping0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I think from a meta perspective this an interesting point in the conversation. If you have two reasonable people with opposite ideologies generally you get to this point, where your understanding is that rich people pay an equal amount to everyone else, and mine is that they don't. Now what? You'll leave the conversation thinking I'm aggressively misinformed, and I'll do the same. Maybe we're both right, though, and the difference comes down to something like I consider inherited money income and you don't, or something. The feminism thing is probably something like that, too.

Idk, it's just weird how all this stuff works. And how most of us can't even really talk to each other about it. I don't know what I'm getting at...maybe I wish there was a place for better moderated conversations where someone could be like "let's discuss estate tax specifically" or "let's talk about women's ability to earn money specifically" but instead it's just like "eat the rich!/fuck socialism" or "there is no wage gap!/equal pay for equal work or you're a misogynist!"

If we're all intelligent people why can't we do better than this?

[–]AngelFire_3_141565 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think I agree with you.

I believe in equality of opportunity, and I don't believe a woman should be shamed for choosing a traditional role.

[–]Spacegirl9811 points12 points  (10 children) | Copy

Hi there

While I'm not on board with the "Modern intersectional 3rd wave feminism" I do consider my self a femininst. (or egalitarian whatever term you preffer) And I love the idea of a civilised dialogue between opposing sides. That's the whole reason I'm on this sub :)

[–]Merlinfrost13 points14 points  (7 children) | Copy

Hey welcome to the club. I’m surprised you’ve managed to last this long on a sub opposed to your opinion. A lot of people seemed to get banned that way.

[–]Spacegirl9813 points14 points  (6 children) | Copy

Well I've actually been banned from almost all the major feminist subs for asking questions that didn't align with there dogma. It's a real shame because it shuts down the chance of any real conversations outside of there echo chamber.

[–]Merlinfrost8 points9 points  (5 children) | Copy

IMO all of reddit is designed to create echo chambers. It was merely a matter of time.

[–]Spacegirl984 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

It's just a shame there no place to have discussions/debates.

[–]duffmanhb2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Venture outward. /r/Tuesday is good for republicans who hate Trump, /r/centrist for more intellectually honest and calm discussion, /r/stupidpol for lefties who hate SJWs and Idpol

Finally, /r/politics to get cancer. Those three seem to be decent places that aren’t filled with children insisting you’re an idiot if you don’t think Trump is literally Hitler and and calling old ladies racist morons is a good idea. Go to the later main politics sub to witness zero effort screams of repetitive pointless low effort comments

[–]Regi971 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I was searching yesterday for a sub that, while not “unbiased”, allows civilised discussions with facts etc.

I’m from the UK and find US Politics really interesting at the moment. But Sadly, if you visit the top political subs, you cannot call out lies and deceit if they don’t fit the narrative of the sub.

So, as another person said, they are literal echo chambers for their single opinions, which means an outsider can’t properly create an informed opinion.

[–]duffmanhb1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That’s why I liked centrist and moderatepolitics, so long as you’re being calm, people gladly disagree without fighting. It’s the big subs where the toxic people gather and who are just wound up looking to fight someone they don’t agree with.

[–]Regi971 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Will have a flick through them! Thank you:)

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well I hope you have found your time here tolerant to your beliefs. While I myself may not be a feminist, I do believe in the first amendment. Even if you are not from America, Reddit is a place to share ideas, a concept many refuse to grasp.

[–]Poseidonram19442 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Don’t worry, you are NOT the issue

[–]BlatantNapping2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'm a feminist, and I'm not represented by those you ridicule, but I'm not the person you want to hear from I think. The strawman fallacy gets thrown around a lot on Reddit but I do think that what you consider "representative" gets twisted by you all to include things that are made up (#fartrape was an MRA hoax) to isolated tweets from misinformed people.

It's the same thing with posts that get to the top of your own sub. I've seen plenty of examples of racist, antisemetic, "feminist men are cucks and feminist women are fat whores" stuff that never seems to get called out. Incels are antifeminist, do you want to be represented by them?

I hang around because I am interested in discussion, but the idea that anti-feminists think feminists are represented by crazy is at best a pot-kettle situation. I would suggest that a "feminist" saying that we should kill all men would be much more likely to be called out by other feminists than an antifeminist saying Jews and Muslims are ruining the world would be called out on this very sub.

It would be nice if we could debate the true views of each side, and agree that we'll keep our own people accountable, instead of just holding up examples of hyperbole.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I do agree that some people on this stub are a bit radical with their views, but we do not condone this behavior. Much like you most likely do not condone radical views of certain groups of feminists. I do appreciate that you acknowledge both side's flaws. That is rare to find these days. That is why I made this post. To answer questions and acknowledge flawed views on both sides. Thank you for being reasonable.

[–]UnLiberal04[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you all for being kind to one another.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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