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Feminist doesn't understand character creators as part of player choice in RPGs, thinks you should be forced to play as female, because most RPG players play as male characters.

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June 29, 2020
241 upvotes
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Title Feminist doesn't understand character creators as part of player choice in RPGs, thinks you should be forced to play as female, because most RPG players play as male characters.
Author ReddditmodsRtrash
Upvotes 241
Comments 46
Date 29 June 2020 03:41 AM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit antifeminists
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/709750
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/hhsnob/feminist_doesnt_understand_character_creators_as/
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Comments

[–]VestigialHead16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

I would say that in the past 5 years more games have had female leads. So unless the above post is old she is delusional. Unfortunately many game creators have let the SJW and feminists direct stories. They have scared developers into changing their narrative to suit a minority. It is a bad thing for games in general. Write the story you want to write. Do not let anyone force your hand.

If feminists want more female characters then more feminists should be developing games - it is as simple as that. Then they can write original female characters instead of damaging existing games and franchises by forcing it on them. Just look at the failures this has caused in the movie world.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

They have scared developers into changing their narrative to suit a minority.

Honestly, part of the way is they have done this has been for the Alt-Left to tell society that they don't exist, that they are just vocal Progressives/Democrats when they're not.

If feminists want more female characters then more feminists should be developing games -

Except no one would buy them. That is why they have to force their agenda into games that gamers actually want. Then when the game fails..... "gamers are just bad people"

[–]luqmanshi3i9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy

I play Tomb Raider and have no problem with playing as Lara Croft. You don't play games to be represented. You play games to have fun.

[–]QS261 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s a great quote dude.

[–]LeftyLucario1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly,

I play as countless women in overwatch and my top 3 characters are women (Moira, Sombra, Symmetra). I don’t feel “attacked” because they’re women and I’m not.

[–]Tsambikos9613 points14 points  (9 children) | Copy

I typically play RPG games with a woman character, cause they typically have a 10% damage increase against opposite gender opponents (fallout, Skyrim), and give additional dialogue options (fallout). Honestly, IDGAF who or what character I play with. I play the game for the story, not for the gender of the player, and the opponents I meet along the way. Portal is a game that has only female characters (yes, it has Cave Johnson, but you don't really hear anything about him. CJ's story and voice starts to come into play in the second game), but it doesn't feel forced. EA's battlefield V on the other hand, feels forced, and that isn't fun (didn't CoD WW2 have black Nazis for inclusion?) When a game is announced, and the game dev says "also, the protagonist is a non-binary female", it's clear they're doing it for the sake of inclusion, and trying to force it onto the gamers. Going back to Portal, we don't know Chel's (the protagonist) sexual orientation, or gender. Does the gender of the protagonist play any role whatsoever in the game of portal? Absolutely not. Do I give a damn about what Chel or GLaDOS identify as? No. In RPG games, the sex of your player does come into play (ie in Fallout where you can seduce NPCs), but it is dependant on the players choices, and not what the dev said during E3.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy

Its just radical feminist complaining that players can choose to be male, instead of forced female representation, there is no logic behind it other than wanting female gamers to appear more represented than they actually are.

How the fuck she is so insane as to say that "unforced representation = no representation" is beyond me.

Probably because if you give an inch, they want a mile.

[–]Tsambikos963 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy

Gaming was originally targeted to boys. I understand that you now want to target all people in general, but you can't go from one extreme to the other. Demanding the entire pie isn't the same as asking for half the pie. imo, all games should have ideally character customization like in most RPG games, or at the least, have 5-10 premade character models to chose from. Don't just set in stone a single model and get backlash from the feminists if it's male- who keep in mind- won't even buy the damn game, or get called out for caving in to PC bullshit from your actual market base.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its never that they didn't want to target girls, its just girls are generally disinterested in spending money on video games as opposed to other things.

Video games used to be in the "boys section" of toy stores, but that was a very limited early phase in the 80s. They quickly became their own category in toy stores separate from boys toys. Then they became their own stores altogether. Most of us weren't even gamers in the pre-Nintendo era when "games in the boys store section" was actually true, we were too young.

Games will probably continue to have a variety of characters to choose from. More important that things like diversity or inclusion or representation: It offer REPLAY value.

[–]Zero_the_Unicorn4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy

Roleplaying games with a set male character doesn't make them anti-woman. A shit ton of boys played as Lara Croft and didn't care. Because it's a ROLE playing game, you play a certain character. You don't have to be them to care about them.

5-10 premade characters are not a good idea. Unless it's base models, and even then, they'll just be hollow husks. Quality over quantity. I don't need another game with a giant array of sliders and presets that ultimately gives me a nameless, silent character with no impact other than existing. That is an overused and boring trope that leads to a less meaningful story due to limited options.

[–]Tsambikos962 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

To be fair, with the price budgets of modern AAA titles, they could easily hire 5-10-20 voice actors so you can preselect what your character will sound like. For example, if in GTA V you could modify the players prior to playing them, or say you could preselect who Michael, Trevor, and Franklin, that would be cool, but I do get your point, and that deviates quite a bit from what the developers had in mind, and it becomes a moot point.

[–]Zero_the_Unicorn2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Theres very few games that do that stuff, GTA V, resident evil 6 and trials of mana come to mind, where you play different characters with intersecting story elements. Those are usually a special kind of story-telling because you don't get the whole story unless you play all characters. It's by no means a standard RPG thing and usually requires a lot of extra work

And while that is a good idea it's a ton of work most devs don't care as it only very slightly enhances a story. Most rpgs should be with just one MC, they usually tend to have the best stories and all. IMO Sekiro absolutely brought it's amazing story out because wolf was a defined person, not a 3 foot naked purple guy with a giant dragon tooth

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Roleplaying games with a set male character doesn't make them anti-woman. A shit ton of boys played as Lara Croft and didn't care.

That's because Lara was super-model levels of hot.

You already know saying that, that highly sexually attractive characters, aren't what feminists want.

They want games to be made where the focus is on a female character that isn't sexually attractive, because they believe it will get more men to empathize with women (while ignoring the hundreds of men that female character kills).

They don't care if that doesn't appeal to guys, they want them to be forced to endure it in order to play a game that they spent their hard earned money on. Then the game fails sales expectations.

The game failing doesn't matter, what matters to them is their social justice agenda being pushed through by whoever is gullible enough to let them.

[–]Zero_the_Unicorn0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Dude.. the first ever games with female leads literally didn't give three shits about graphics.. Lara looked like triangular ass.. Samus was like fifteen pixels.. and even the newer ones.. Bayonetta was made by a woman.. Hellblade, Mirrors edge and HZD certainly didn't have ultra-sexualized protags. Half life alyx was a huge hit with a female protag.

Feminists just want to virtue signal. If a character is hot, it's the males fault, even if it's made by a woman who's happy about being one.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Most of the depictions of female characters in games were highly sexualized and that carried through to in-game models as soon as technology was able to catch up. You know that.

A few examples to the contrary doesn't show that it doesn't matter, it shows bad design that didn't help make itself as marketable as it could of been.

[–]Radikost1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If you don’t like the lead then just… don’t play the game. The gaming industry can go without a few dumbasses

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Not liking the lead is one thing.

But not liking that the protagonist can be anybody you choose is just an entire new level of fucking stupid.

Especially in a
ROLE
PLAYING
GAME
for fuck sakes..........

[–]Cynical_Silverback2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I kind of like this meme because you don't strawman the fuck out of the feminist. They could shriek in response to Rogan and call him names but you didn't do that. I see this as a plausible conversation.

That said these people are nuts. They are partially right that a lot of stories the men are leads whether they be RPGs or not. But apparently some female writers willingly choose to write male characters so it seems less forced and more because some people like to roll with a guy character.

I actually prefer male characters but hey nothing wrong with female ones either.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's a plausible conversation because its a conversation that I actually had.

If a mod said "link to where it happened, your allowed" I would do that, but since I can't, I have to just include the linked text.

A google search should probably bring up the thread, I just can't link to it or name anybody.

[–]Gameperson7002 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

Female here. I like playing as males because they’re hot. Who cares what the gender is? All I want is a story and gameplay.

[–]TigerInAformalsuit1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Hot pixel

[–]Gameperson7001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Me wants to sex with it.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are body positive and also focused on the game as an experience.

Feminist focus on games as they relate to how much they can use it to gain power to exert over men in society.

So of coarse to you it doesn't make sense. You don't approach gaming from a purely ideological standpoint, disinterested in the negative effects such an ideology has on the game itself.

You are, in other words, an average consumer.

[–]Gameperson7001 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yup. It’s like feminists brains are constantly churning out ways to be offended. That is if they have one.

[–]make-me-yours-please1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

As a woman that plays video games I really don’t care if the protagonist is a male or female. I care about the plot. Sure it’s nice to be able to play games with a female protagonist, but it isn’t the most important part of the game. Gender doesn’t matter when it’s related to games. Besides, there’s plenty of games that allow you to customize your character.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Her argument was that player characters as optionally female doesn't count as "real" representation because if mostly male gamers aren't being forced to play as a female, then they'll play as male, thus female representation does not occur.

That RPGs are designed around role-playing a character just isn't something she accepts. She wants forced female protags and doesn't really give a shit if it directly conflicts with the very nature of RPG character creations mechanics.

[–]make-me-yours-please1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

It’s kinda funny because almost all of the guys that I know play female characters in games like skyrim and fallout because female characters have more perks like more influence on make guards and shopkeepers.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Even if you told her that, she would not care.

All the guys you know, are not all players, as a result, its "not representative enough to be actual representation because it's not forced upon the player"

[–]make-me-yours-please0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It’s just stupid. Having more representation in video games and movies isn’t going to help with sexism. Especially sexism over in foreign countries.

[–]link31051 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

𝓫ŕ𝐎𝓣ⓗ乇𝔯

[–]TigerInAformalsuit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for the new discord username

[–]QS261 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

In Odyssey they literally made Kassandra the CANON character when you can play as both male and female. You can never satisfy these people.

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, you can't.

Female representation to them is like the amount or duration on an alimony judgement:

It's never enough to make up for all the years of systematic oppression they are angry about that they never actually experienced, but feel entitled to compensation for on the aggrieved person's behalf.

There will never be enough female cannon characters, or desexualized female characters, because if it was ever enough then they would have to stop complaining.

[–]AlarmGG1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Excusme what the fuck? Have they forgotten that one of the most populour games contain feamale lead??? Here's an example: Mirror's edge, tomb raider, dishonored 2, ect....

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

In her opinion women who are sexy in games don't count as representation, because they are idealized women, not representations of "real" women (yes, in a video game, try not laugh) so they don't count.

[–]BenLegend4431 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I believe that if you don't like the current situation, you use your hands or whatever you need to change it, not yell at people to change it to suit you.

If feminists are unhappy with the current games available on the market, they shouldn't try to make running franchises change, cause a sudden change that hasn't been set up is going to be bad.

Stories and lore require planning, especially if the game gets to be big. League of Legends' lore took a few years of building to reach coherence. They've said in their lore articles, that new characters and new stories are tied in with hooks left behind by the old, and the hooks are carefully planned so things don't contradict each other.

Games like Rage of Bahamut and Granblue Fantasy that follow a specific protagonist have to be planned around that guy/girl. For example, if you pick your protagonist to be Djeeta in Granblue, the entire story is going to be planned around the protagonist being a girl.

Female representation is good. Just don't shoehorn it in.

[–]sanrio-sugarplum1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

They say all of that and then they make the most boring, soulless, unlikable female protagonists of all time because "they need to be empowered"

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

A character designed to appeal to men, will focus on that character's actions rather than their innermost feelings. A character designed to appeal women will focus more heavily on emotions and complexes.

As a result, games in general these days that try to focus on female characters as "The journey she goes through" whereas the focus on male characters is "the impact they have on the world around them."

This is why Lara Croft in the last two tomb raider games were so uninspiring. It tried to make both sequels melodramatic about her inner struggles while at the same time having her be an alpha predator exterminator of her fellow man. The current Lara Croft belongs in Life Is Strange, not a Tomb Raider game.

You could take a female lead and desexualize her and then put her into the role of action hero focused on character action than inner reflection, but then what you have is a character that doesn't have maximum broad appeal to either male players or female players.

[–]aurum_320 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This is true, a feminist gamer in Spain has complained because we can choose the gender of our characters, says that's not the same as having a female character.

[–]alep20070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

slowly hides definitives pokémon red/blue/yellow

[–]SnowySupreme0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What about lara croft lmao

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

OG Lara is a sexed up super model, a male fantasy, not a "realistic" woman, so she doesn't count. Only women who this feminist finds appealing as characters count as real women. Whether she finds the female character appealing is based off of men don't.

As for the latest Reboot of the Tomb Raider series, the first one, Rise of The Tomb Raider, she looked like a model. The last two games, she was considerably less attractive. Probably why that series is dead now.

Spitting in the face of the men who buy the games is a really bad tactic for meeting your sales expectations: Which Square Enix never did

[–]Altin_Beg-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy

Did this convo ever happen though? Looks like strawmanning

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Yes it did. But if I link user's name then it would get taken down. See rule number 4. It would have been easier just to screen cap the thread.

[–]Altin_Beg0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can you screen cap and dm me with it? I want to see if people like this exist

[–]ReddditmodsRtrash[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Sent



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