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Trying to talk to a feminist about boys education - this is why we need a radically different approach to feminism, and why feminism has a serious bias and indoctrination/delusion problem

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May 5, 2020
209 upvotes

Karen Sraughan:

I did an interview with Saachi Khoul of Buzzfeed News yesterday. I talked about boys falling behind in education from the primary school level onward, including:

* teacher bias against boys exists (female elementary school teachers grade boys down compared to gender-blinded evaluators)

* boys are aware of this bias (when third grade boys were asked to wager money on how good a grade they expected to get on a project, they wagered less when they were told the teacher was female and would know they're a boy than when they were told the teacher was male or that the teacher wouldn't know they're a boy)

* both boys and girls agree that boys receive the bulk of negative attention from teachers in classrooms

* because school at the primary level is dominated by women, and because of the above issues, and because boys might not have their first male teacher until grade 8 math, they are likely to internalize the message that school is not for boys

Her response to that was to first ask if the boys were white. I was like, "Uh... this affects all boys, including minority boys." She then said, "But CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are overwhelmingly male."

I was like... WTF? So I say, "what does what's going on among 50 to 70 year olds in the top 1 tenth of 1% of the population have to do with how boys are doing in elementary school?"

She says, "well, men are still dominant." I said, "those male CEOs were boys in elementary school 40 to 60 years ago.

What does that have to do with what's happening now in elementary schools? You have to realize there's a bit of a lag at work here, and if you look at age cohorts from oldest to youngest, you find women and girls catching up and then surpassing men and boys as you track backwards from older to younger cohorts. Single women in their 20s in cities now earn 8% more than their male counterparts. Your entire argument here seems vindictive--like you're happy to see boys punished because men are still dominant in the top 1% at age 50."

"So MRAs are complaining about women catching up, is what you're saying."

I said, "women had parity in post secondary enrolment in the 1980s."

She comes back with me not being intersectional enough. "Yes, but women of color earn much less compared to white men."

I said, "Not to get all intersectional on you, but the gender gap favoring women in post-secondary attainment in the US is largest in the black community." T

he producer interrupts and tries to get us back on the topic of bias against primary school boys and asks her to clarify her counterargument. She replies that she thinks her point about the dominance of men at the top of Fortune 500 companies is an adequate rebuttal. (WTF!!!????)

Honestly, it was like talking to a brick wall.

BTW its from this videos comment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sa9_Uk4rcTE

This is a serape interview with a feminist after she watched a mens issues event. Absolute psycho. Mens Lib suckers need to see this:

Complains about not enough women in the event and womens voices, when asked if men would dominate a feminists event she goes erm no!

The biggest irony, is SHE IS LITERALLY DESCRIBING FEMINISM.. LIKE LITERALLY. She is saying why are they gendering mens issues? WELL F*** HELLO, why is feminism?

Utterly deluded and indoctrinated woman. The hypocrisy is on another planet. She complains about a lack issues being defined but refuses to define her self as being a feminist. F*** hell.


Post Information
Title Trying to talk to a feminist about boys education - this is why we need a radically different approach to feminism, and why feminism has a serious bias and indoctrination/delusion problem
Author mellainadiba
Upvotes 209
Comments 18
Date 05 May 2020 11:52 PM UTC (4 months ago)
Subreddit antifeminists
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/710011
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/ge93pt/trying_to_talk_to_a_feminist_about_boys_education/
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Comments

[–]DelusionalDonut1337 points38 points  (1 child) | Copy

The beginning was very interesting.

I’ve seen a lot of people say schools were biased against boys, but you were the first person to say why.

[–]mellainadiba[S] 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

That is Karen Strughan btw not me. But here is an actual study of all OECD countries. Surprisingly reported by BBC lol:

Teachers give higher marks to girls 4 IDENTICAL work than boys https://bbc.co.uk/news/education-31751672 due 2 teacher gender bias/sexism. In work place, suprisingly women favoured 2:1 over IDENTICAL or even slightly more qualified men! https://pnas.org/content/112/17/5360, but gender BLIND helps men

[–]MingSushi16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

I highly support single sex education, so teachers and schools can focus their approach to learning so both boys and girls get the needed learning they need without one group being left out or left behind

I also remember in school how teachers treated the boys and male teachers. One day, I remember this girl (the biggest troublemaker in our grade) had actually slapped a teacher and he hit her back. He was suspended/fired (I don’t remember which one) because of the incident and some of her friends were even talking about accusing him of sexual misconduct, it pissed me off but I met him in the mall and we laughed about the incident.

[–]ThePaleKing77716 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

Honestly, the only rebuttal to her Fortune 500 ““point”” is to say something along the lines of ‘yeah, and the queen of England is the literal queen of England. There are women on top too, but if I brought that up to dismiss something you said I’d sound fucking ridiculous’

[–]mellainadiba[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

The rebuttal is what about the misfortunate 5000 - 94% of all work place deaths in USA circa 5000 per year are men. This reflects that men disproportionally, and in some industries 100% entirely, do the most dangerous, dirty, thankless jobs. You cannot talk about gender equality in work by only discussing the wage gap (which is a myth) without talking about other issues

[–]beniesixx9812 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy

Another thing that does bother and concern me about the fact is the number of men with mental issues that those feminazis that they overlook . Its sad really , men suffer in silence while the women get called brave for dealing with depression . Like take for example my fiance is midly autistic , and has anger issues (He's working on it) , anyways I've been helping as much as I can to get it to were he can cope without pills (He's been on them since he was 6) . Well when we talk to others about it they say really sexist stuff that I won't repeat. But he will mention he was inspired by me to learn how to cope without medicine , and almost like clock work they start asking "what do you suffer from " , "why do you suffer from that " etc. And then call me a 'hero' and 'brave' but won't tell him that . Like ffs men suffer from mental illnesses a lot more then women . I don't understand why does society push mens mental health under the rug like its no big deal .And if men say anything about it people tell them to "man up " . Its sick

[–]mellainadiba[S] 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy

Yes that is something that needs to be addressed. There is increasing focus on it in society which is good. The main issue is men themselves, as you pointed out in some examples and how do you spread this message to society. Also think about what moments in life would you consider suicide (I mean I would never do it, but what moments could? Well homelessness might... 9/10 men are homeless. Drinks and drugs might, men are more likely to do these. War might. 22 vets commit suicide per day and the army is 99% male on the front line, not that Id change that necessarily but more support is needed for vets, and big one, divorce, losing kids etc, and men affected... so just improving the lives of men would help reduce suicide, depression etc. The underachievement of boys in education etc. I was a straight A student, great job etc. but I bloody hated school (I thought seeing friends etc was really fun and I thought school was fun) but the actual learning is rubbish... just don't think it caters to boys (or even girls really but it certainly is better ) but the system need changing.... men just need better role models of masculinity being good, now all boys are told is that masculinity is bad. toxic etc... the blur is fading, its going from toxic masculinity is bad to just masculinity is bad

[–]beniesixx983 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy

Everything needs a big change like I shouldn't be called a "hero" for fighting off depression and helping my fiance deal with his . My soon to be bils should be considered hers both severed and fought hard for this country . And one has ptsd but He's a lot better now . And its so sick like my baby brother can't get insurance , like wellcare for his insulin just because He's a man . But I can if I get pregnant that doesn't make sense.

[–]mellainadiba[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

Yes I feel you, I hope those guys can sort it out, and also things get easier for you. There is a sound argument for giving pregnant women free medication, but yes sometimes men are neglected. Society is good at spotting these things like pregnant women, and womens issues I mean women even retire 5 years earlier with pension despite living longer in many countries to account for the fact they get pregnant (I mean don't get me wrong women have a lot of health access issues and issues in general) but to men its not really on the cards at all.... Its better than Haiti after the earthquakes at least, For the first few days the UN literally only fed women and girls (see articles)... then the stupid reason cited was men were getting in the queuses taking food... well duh they are hungry cos you aren't feeding them. The UN policy is actually in general in their day to day work to help women over men... the economic argument is helping a woman helps a family more so than helping a man does, and also women will have less children if you help them so its more effective.... I mean fine lets consider that... but why is that never applied to men?

[–]beniesixx982 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

It always scares the hell out of me because my brothers medicine isn't cheap here nearly $1000 for just a months worth of his medicine , not including the pens , the needles , the test strips , the meters and Keaton strips let alone his blood pressure medicine . And He's only 19 he can die without his medicine, but no because He's a man he can't get welfare

[–]mellainadiba[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

man that really sucks, so expensive in US

[–]beniesixx981 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah , I'm just hoping he can get a job soon so he can pay for it . He lives with my jnmom . So I'm really worried

[–]mellainadiba[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

From Channi Randazzo:

Feminism seeks to improve outcomes for women and girls. You will notice that this goal has no end point.

When feminism describes itself as a movement advocating for women’s rights on the grounds of the equality of the sexes, it does so by warping the meanings of several important words.

Firstly, “rights” become characterised as “privileges”. For example, men are not characterised as earning the right to vote after WWI (in most countries, excepting Australia, where women and men already had universal suffrage). Rather, feminists assert that men had the privilege of being able to vote. It is described as a privilege despite the fact that men’s vote is predicated on their registration for the draft.

“Equality” used to mean equality of opportunity, and 2nd wave feminists adhered to this convention when they lobbied successfully for the various equal pay acts over 50 years ago.

Not satisfied with this “choice feminism”, however, some feminists now see equality of opportunity as oppressive. They instead argue for equality of outcomes. Some feminists term this equality of outcomes “equity”.

Unfortunately for human rights advocates and the humans whose rights they protect, equality of outcomes negates equality of opportunity and mandates oppression.

We can think of equality of outcomes as symbolic of a handicapped horse race. In handicapped horse racing, the goal is not a level playing field. The goal is to provide a statistically equal chance of each horse winning. This system uses imposed handicaps to give the poorer performers in that race an unfair advantage. This is achieved by weighing down those individuals who perform well in that race. Handicaps are a form of disability. When they are imposed, they are a form of systemic oppression. At least in horse racing, however, individual horses are handicapped according to their own recent performance.

In this sense, yes, feminism is very effective. The effect is most pronounced on the back quarter of the field (where men are overrepresented). Sadly, feminists, just like the horse racing officials, are only interested in the winners.

[–]DoubleDollars694 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's sad. Op ed writers with poor argumentative /debative skills are the worst (not really, but they are pretty bad). Its like, giving a job to a person because they suck at it.

[–]mewacketergi3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Her response to that was to first ask if the boys were white. I was like, "Uh... this affects all boys, including minority boys." She then said, "But CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are overwhelmingly male."

I was like... WTF? So I say, "what does what's going on among 50 to 70 year olds in the top 1 tenth of 1% of the population have to do with how boys are doing in elementary school?"

She says, "well, men are still dominant." I said, "those male CEOs were boys in elementary school 40 to 60 years ago.

You are right, this dogma, these people are blind to reason, and this system is designed to work this way. It's not a bug, it's a feature. We need to account for this in how we talk to people.

EDIT: Also, the feminists are likely to respond with an incorrect reading of an orchestra study.

[–]Foxkid6390 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

no no not canada no

[–]Verbalicedtea-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

I also think it is because boys don't really try at school. I never tried at all, I still passed but the girls in my class throughout the years were just more organized, they studied and i just didn't neither did the other boys in my school. I think that boys and girls should be seperate when it comes to education. Boys need a different approach than girls. There is no one direct way to teach everybody. Thats just my view it may be wrong it may be right.

[–]mellainadiba[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think some operation is good too, but I don't know what the data says. t a school did try a boy friendly approach to learning, boys performance shot up and so dd girls, and the gender gap went. It says specifically what it did here:

http://www.ascd.org/publications/educational-leadership/sept06/vol64/num01/Teaching-to-the-Minds-of-Boys.aspx



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