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Didn't sexism also affect men in the past?

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September 2, 2019
91 upvotes

I'm a girl and don't get me wrong women definitely didn't have equal rights in the past which is what led to 1st Gen Feminism (The only good generation). However, I was recently thinking about the War period and how men were basically forced to join a war that they had a slim chance of surviving. If they didn't, they would get ridiculed and if they attempted to leave the warzone they'd basically get a death sentence. I also found out that women were told to persuade men to go to war and insult those who clearly weren't in the army. I've never really heard anyone talk about this and I kind of think that was a clear example of sexism.


Post Information
Title Didn't sexism also affect men in the past?
Author dollop_of_okube
Upvotes 91
Comments 18
Date 02 September 2019 05:49 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit antifeminists
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/710473
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/cyl0m7/didnt_sexism_also_affect_men_in_the_past/
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Comments

[–]HBenedek3825 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy

If women had no equal rights, neither did men. Equality has two sides. If A != B, then B != A.

But pedantry aside...

It is really difficult to speak about equal rights, because back in the day society wasn't just divided along the lines of sex, but class too. Sure, men in many nations had a bit of an advantage - for example, in certain countries as time progressed, wealthy male non-noble merchants got the vote earlier, but that's just one right of many. The idea of fundamental human rights is a relatively new one, and one that's not completely realised even today, much less 100 years ago. And breaking down equality ot the right to vote is kind of simplistic.

But let's look at the right to vote. America's an exception, but if you look at European nations - say, the UK. There's a buttload of info about women's suffrage, but men's... not so much. In fact, search for men's rights, and you get women's rights. So no wonder gullible young girls with little understanding of history (especially since it is taught through a feminist lens) get the impression that men always had the right to vote. Or they just never think about it.

So, when did men get the right to vote in the UK? Well...

In 1866, in order to vote in Britain, you had to be a noble (male of female), or a man of 21 years of age... who owner real estate. Funny how that goes. For reference, this meant 1.4 of the 30 million population. So really, 91% of men still couldn't vote.

They increased the voting right to 18% of the population by 1884, but that's still based on property.

And finally, meg got the universal vote in 1918, as a compensation for their service in WW1. This act also gave the vote to women who were over 30, and owner property, or whose husband owner property. That's a pretty big chunk of the female population.

THen in 1928 women too got the right universally.

So really the difference between unalienable women's suffrage and men's suffrage was barely 10 years. Doesn't sound like "centuries of oppression" to me...

And of course, on top of that, yes, there was conscription for millenia, there was the infamous white feather movement to shame British men into fighting a senseless war...

I am glad that you decided to look into these things a little more.

[–]RingosTurdFace9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Voting aside (which as mentioned above in the UK all men got in 1918 (and so had an utterly uncelebrated centenary last year) along with the responsibility to fight in wars) if you look at the conditions of many men back then, they weren’t sitting on their backsides all day, smoking pipes and eating food in immaculate houses kept clean by long suffering women.

Back then men (when not being shot to pieces in a foreign country or forced to take the “king’s shilling”, etc) were in the mines, the fields, the factories, etc, working extremely hard, manual and often dangerous jobs.

To present a picture of “oppressed” women and “privileged” men is very far from the truth. Also as mentioned above class/wealth was a far, far bigger predicate of how your life was going to be than gender, just as it is now really.

For example, in England in the 17th/18th centuries, men could be imprisoned for debt but women could not be and men were responsible for their wives debts. So if a woman defaulted on her obligation, her husband went to prison on her behalf.

Also many women didn’t want the vote - they thought it would bring with it the draft for them. Plus the suffragettes played a relatively minor role in getting women the vote in the UK - the majority of the thanks for that goes to a much larger and tempered political movement which was helped by a large number of male politicians.

But of course an image of these women carrying out acts of violence makes for a much better story today, and we’ve all heard that the truth shouldn’t get in the way of a good story.

Finally in the US, some states also had a “bachelor tax” - unmarried men over a certain age had to pay additional income tax simply by virtue of the fact they were male. Of course we don’t hear much about that as it doesn’t fit the narrative of how oppressed women have been and privileged men were/are.

There’s loads more, but I’m aware my response it getting long for a Reddit post, but thank you on behalf of many men for having an open mind and asking questions like this.

[–]Gnometard4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sexism is a vague term used to simply shut up people. Just like racism. Men and women are fundamentally different and those differences are sometimes used for shit like war

[–]NewWorldOrderIsTrue5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Everyone in the society has roles to fulfill If not fulfilled human race will go extinct So it's a man's job to fight wars

[–]Lorenz_b7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Completely agree, but it seems like now women don’t accept those ‘roles’ as they don’t want to serve in war and they don’t want to clean/ cook for the family...

[–]NewWorldOrderIsTrue2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's true today's women dont cook and clean That's why draft must be compulsory for women

[–]RXelaH19840 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Adding “I’m a girl” to the beginning does not make your point any more relevant, without the inclusion of well presented facts. Never use your gender to reinforce the idea that your point is any more valid. Use facts and logic, you really don’t want to be similar to male feminists.

[–]dollop_of_okube[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I really didn't want to make it seem like that, and I'll definitely try my best to not do it again as I understand it can come across that way. But I still feel as though what I said is already well known things that kids are taught in the UK. I was recently taught this as well and that's what led to me thinking of my point.

[–]RXelaH19840 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with you, completely. It’s just that it’s better to stray from using your gender in an argument, it does not help it.

[–]SorenKingsman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patriarchy isn't men get everything, women suffer entirely - it's men have political power. This can be very bad for women but it also harms men a lot and this is a good example of it. Where I'm from men were legally required to fight and that's wrong which is one of many reasons I'm a feminist.

[–]SorenKingsman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patriarchy isn't men get everything, women suffer entirely - it's men have political power. This can be very bad for women but it also harms men a lot and this is a good example of it. Where I'm from men were legally required to fight and that's wrong which is one of many reasons I'm a feminist.

[–]SorenKingsman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patriarchy isn't men get everything, women suffer entirely - it's men have political power. This can be very bad for women but it also harms men a lot and this is a good example of it. Where I'm from men were legally required to fight and that's wrong which is one of many reasons I'm a feminist.

[–]SorenKingsman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patriarchy isn't men get everything, women suffer entirely - it's men have political power. This can be very bad for women but it also harms men a lot and this is a good example of it. Where I'm from men were legally required to fight and that's wrong which is one of many reasons I'm a feminist.

[–]SorenKingsman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patriarchy isn't men get everything, women suffer entirely - it's men have political power. This can be very bad for women but it also harms men a lot and this is a good example of it. Where I'm from men were legally required to fight and that's wrong which is one of many reasons I'm a feminist.

[–]SorenKingsman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Patriarchy isn't men get everything, women suffer entirely - it's men have political power. This can be very bad for women but it also harms men a lot and this is a good example of it. Where I'm from men were legally required to fight and that's wrong which is one of many reasons I'm a feminist.



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