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Guilty of what? He might not have been found guilty of rape but for another crime. Rape is a very difficult crime to prove because it requires a very high standard of evidence, not because we live in a rape culture.

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November 22, 2019
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Title Guilty of what? He might not have been found guilty of rape but for another crime. Rape is a very difficult crime to prove because it requires a very high standard of evidence, not because we live in a rape culture.
Author username2136
Upvotes 280
Comments 45
Date 22 November 2019 01:38 AM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit antifeminists
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/711402
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/dztrl4/guilty_of_what_he_might_not_have_been_found/
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[–]shkreli4prez202086 points87 points  (3 children) | Copy

Mhmmm... I got a feeling we're only hearing one side of this

[–]username2136[S] 66 points67 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah. One of the many problems feminists have is that they don’t give a shit about context.

[–]p4inki11er22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

probably grabbed her ass while he was drunk and thats their definition of rape....

[–]see-yall-in-therapy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

No he stared at her

[–]Egalitarianwhistle50 points51 points  (13 children) | Copy

Speaking of coming forward, what about the 1.5 million male victims of female rapists? We have too many women coming forward with bullshit. No more women can do #metoo until at least ten thousand men do.

[–]joker3815 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

And real victims of rape are traumatized, which is a very personal thing, and tend to not publicly talk about this.

[–]DepravedWalnut2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Do you have a link for that number? Not being a dick. I just want some sort of evidence if i choose to use that number in a future argument

[–]Egalitarianwhistle9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy

Yeah. here wego. It's from the CDC NISVS 2012 survey here: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf

Edit: The data shows 1.9 million incidents of "made to penetrate" sexual assaults against male victims over the previous 12 months before the survey. Several pages later, we see that women account for 78.5% of all "made to penetrate" sexual assault against men. You do the math and you get a little over 1.5 million incidents of "made to penetrate" rape against men perpetrated by women for the year 2012.

(They really bury it. It doesn't appear in the summaries. And you have to look at the 12 month interval, it's much lower over a lifetime.) Remember they don't count female on male "made to penetrate" sex as rape. So it doesnt appear in their "rape" stats. This website does a good job of looking at it: https://recalculatingthegenderwar.tumblr.com/post/162336650896/new-cdc-data-again-finds-as-many-if-not-more

Finally, Ally Fogg has a great list on his blog. These are surveys done since the 1980s on female sexual assault perpetration: https://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/09/04/the-startling-facts-on-female-sexual-aggression/

For example: Anderson, 1999 – 43% of college women admitted to using verbal or physical pressure to obtain sex

Please deseminate this info. Feminists are loath to admit it , but they actually HATE discussions of female sexual predators

[–]DepravedWalnut4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Holy shit. You went above and beyond! Thank you!

[–]Egalitarianwhistle5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's annoying because the CDC really tries to hide their own findings. So it's not printed in any of their fun factoid summaries. The data is there you just have to dig a little. Because of this, if you refer feminists to the CDC website, their willful blindness will never find it.

Here's a great Cathy Young article: https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/

[–]Mellow_Maniac2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Very good, very good indeed. As in not the whole rape thing, but the work you put in.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I merely stand on the shoulders of giants.

[–]Accidental_Edge2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I support this sub and this post, but this isn't a valid counterargument to the captioned woman's rape culture claim. This is what aboutism— a logical fallacy— which draws attention away from the proposed argument.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Why dont men come forward? We know men are sexually assaulted more than women yet the problem is still framed as women not coming forward. Why are men not being encouraged? Why do they harp on #believewomen? It is pure chauvinism. Female victims have assumed trauma. Male victims have assumed pleasure.

[–]Accidental_Edge0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Everything you have said is true. What it isn't is pertinent to the discussion as it is.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

She said, "Don't ever ask me why we, (presumably women,) don't come forward."

She is implying that some travesty of justice has taken place. She reported her rape and the accused only received community service. She is saying it wasn't worth it to come forward because the punishment wasn't harsh enough for her. Almost as if she feels devalued. Would she be happier if he had gotten ten years in prison and raped while in there? What would have been a more fitting punishment for her?

She came forward. The person she accused was punished. She's saying this is the reason we don't come forward.

I'm sorry but it's hard for my mind not to wander to an entire gender, which A. is raped more often that women, and B. reports at about 1% of the overall reporting rape of women.

So the question in my mind is not why she, and presumably, all female victims, don't come forward. Even if it was her answer, that men who are adjudicated are not punished to her satisfaction, I'm still confused as to why that should be a reason not to come forward. Especially since, from where I'm sitting, female victims come forward more than men at a rate of about 100-1.

It's not strictly whataboutism- I'm pointing out the underlying assumptions and privilege of her position.

Again, my question is why she is leaving out over half of the population as if they don't exist?

The truth is that women DO report. And they report more than men at a ratio of 100-1. I don't think it's completely out of line to point this out, especially because she seems to have left it out. Not just her, but almost every single woman that I have ever heard talk about rape.

When I see things like this, I can't help but wonder, why don't men come forward?

If somebody had posted about how many white people had been shot and killed by police, I'm not entirely certain it would be called Whataboutism to point out that black men are also shot and killed by police at an even higher rate. It's a related fact to the issue at hand.

[–]mis-Anne-drist-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

men are raped by-wait for it-OTHER MEN.

push off.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

We found the lurking sexist. Where's the data to back up your claim Ms. Feminist?

You didnt answer my question above. In 2012 there were 1.5 million incidents of female on male rape according to the CDC NISVS survey. You probably know some of these female rapists.

You are in the wrong sub. Go back to r/ feminism where you will be safe from facts.

If you want to hate men please stick to your echochamber. You will be safe from hearing the empirical evidence that your hate cult hides from you. For example, the vast unreported numbers of female on male sexual assault perpetration. If you want to end #rapeculture I suggest you start by practicing what you preach.

I'm laughing because I looked through your post history and found you quoted the 1in 5 women will be raped stat. That stat is based on the same survey I quoted above, the CDC NISVS survey. According to the CDC NISVS survey data, In 2012 there were more female perpetrated rapes than male perpetrated rapes. They dont call it rape when women do it,(can't have gender equality,) they call it "made to penetrate" sexual assault.

If you are going to use the CDC Nisvs survey please use all of it and stop cherry-picking, you willfully-blind, arrogant hypocrite.

Hogben, Byrne & Hamburger (1996) Lifetime prevalence of 24% for women having made a man engage in sexual activity against his will.

[–]Nago3112 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sounds like he was guilty in a university hearing, not a criminal one. Their standards for guilt are extremely lax, basically guilty by accusation. If the evidence was so weak that they couldn’t expel him, there was probably nothing there at all.

[–]Lickiecat14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy

Regardless. It's a double edged sword. The fact that it's difficult to prove is dangerous to everyone.. To the victims of rape and the victims of lies.. The only people it benefits are the monsters. (Rapists and liars)

So long as you are a good person, you will find we live in a disgusting world.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle12 points13 points  (8 children) | Copy

But you seem to still be working in the male/predator versus female/prey dichotomy. What is not being discussed is that women have full sexual agency as adults and violate men's consent all the time. Men are simply not culturally inculcated to perceive a consent violation as essentially damaging to us.

Multiple surveys indicate that women commit sexual assault about as often as men.

My own experience confirms this for me. I've had multiple liberal arts school, hardcore self-identified feminists violate my consent sexually. Yet they are still out there being tumblrina warriors against rape culture. I call bullshit. I call hypocrisy.

We need men to start flooding the legal system with reports of sexual assault against women.

I'm not saying it can't be traumatic. But a lot of the stuff coming out in this #metoo era is like Aziz.

[–]VestigialHead2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Damn right.

Maybe we can start a new movement.

#MenToo

[–]Egalitarianwhistle2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not even new. India has #mentoo and their MRA movement is like 100 times larger than USA

[–]KevinAndWinnie4Eva0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Multiple? How so ?

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Men's right sub has good info on the 2010-2012 CDC NISVS survey which shows that in the year 2012, 1.5 million sexual assaults against men were perpetrated by women.

https://recalculatingthegenderwar.tumblr.com/post/162336650896/new-cdc-data-again-finds-as-many-if-not-more

Here is a link to a blog listing over a dozens studies done since the 1980s indicating the prevalence of female sexual assault. https://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/09/04/the-startling-facts-on-female-sexual-aggression/

For example, pulled from the freethought blog: Hogben, Byrne & Hamburger (1996) Lifetime prevalence of 24% for women having made a man engage in sexual activity against his will.

[–]KevinAndWinnie4Eva0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

How is the men’s rights sub? (Also thank you for the reply)

I joined the MGTOW awhile back and at first it was good but then it just turned into a bunch of assholes disparaging all women and literally bashing men who got married. It was weird and even teetered on incel type behavior, which is unfortunate because there was a lot of content that was good.

Why did it turn into a sub just to bash and ridicule ALL women?

How’s the men’s rights sub? I tend to be a pretty conservative guy (compared to today’s unhinged left) but sheesh that MTGOW sub got a little cringe.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

i like th me MEns rights sub. MGTOW focuses too much on dating and why they hate women. MRA'S have good data and decent ethical framework. Basically MRA's are hated right now because they are to Feminism what Satan worshippers were to Christianity- anathema.

But look at the gender gaps men face:

Suicide Homelessness Education Domestic violence services Criminal sentencing Parental rights

[–]KevinAndWinnie4Eva1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Oh yes, it’s quite disproportionate.

Yet men (especially sTarIgHt wHiTe maLeS) are vilified on the daily.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well of course men are vilified, look at how many more are in jail compared to women!

[–]VestigialHead4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would suggest this had nothing to do with rape. Feminists these days actually think that if two adults get drunk and then have sex that the man raped the women. They are clearly and unashamedly insane.

[–]qemist3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Probably found guilty by a campus kangaroo court.

[–]KevinAndWinnie4Eva1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Guessing there is a LOT of cool text to this.

[–]MegaMindxXx1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If there weren't so many false rape accusations there probably wouldnt be this problem.

[–]Accidental_Edge1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

"This man's life wasn't ruined as soon as we said rape, thus we live in a rape culture."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

I agree that this instance isnt solid. But a man who lives in mu town raped his 14 year old daughter and only got 2 years of prison. Like, seriously???

[–]username2136[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy

Yeah that sucks but if he was truly found guilty of rape, then he is going to have to have a sex offender label on him permanently so even after prison, no one is going to want to be around him anyway.

Even still, I feel like we are missing a lot of context here such as why they came to that decision. He might have been accused of rape but the courts were unable to prove that the rape happened but they were able to prove that a crime occurred so he got charged with that instead. There could be a multitude of reasons but if we really did live in a rape culture, then I don’t know why they would even bother punishing him at all even if he was guilty of rape. In fact he might as well be a local celebrity.

I don’t mean to be a dick about it, but all I am saying is that there is a reason why our courts don’t rule based on hysteria. Not after the witch trials, McCarthyism in the 1950s and the Satanic Panic in the 1980s.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Like I said this example isnt a good representation of what happens. Just slapping a label on someone isnt enough. They let them out so they can go do it again? Why cant we just all agree that we either need to. Help these people mentally or just off them. I'm not on the "rape culture." Bandwagon. I just think that Texas does it right. Shoot the motherfucker on sight. (If you physically catch them doing it) and any other case, you have to he PROVEN guilty to be punished. Hut once proven there should be no mercy for them. The whole system is fucked. We socially convict someone just for being accused, but when they obviously did it, we barely even punish them? Like a slap on the wrist if you ask me.

[–]username2136[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

If he was found guilty of rape then yeah he barely got a slap on the wrist. I agree with Texas on this one too.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Right. Sorry I may have come off as someone trying to judge the situation above. I completely agree. The woman in the post is being conveniently ambiguous and using that to stretch the truth into what she wants it to be. For her agenda.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

A woman married this man after he got out knowing full well what he was. She brought him around her children. Put them in danger. I think he should have been executed.

[–]username2136[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ah ok I agree then.

[–]Zori_The_Zorua1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My step-sisters are 12 and 14.

For their whole life they were living with their mother, who had went behind my fathers back and lied to the courts about him, making him unable to get the girls.

Years later, after thousands of dollars of child support and fighting, my dad is given notice that he is not allowed to contact his ex or his children.

He is slowly informed that she had gotten with a man, a KNOWN child rapist, who has been to jail for 10 or so years for molesting and attempting to rape his own daughter.

The girls report that they had told their mother that this was happening, and she began to GROOM them for him. Ie shaving their crotch and giving them items to be more "appealing"

They reported that they told her on many occations over months that they didnt like it, and eventually told one of their teachers or a cop, i dont remember.

The man was arrested (not their mother though) and was about to be put on trial. He hung himself before they could.

When my dad is finally allowed to see the girls, they cried CONSTANTLY. Affraid of him. The eldest had welts on her body, chunks of skin taken out of her back just above her butt, where he had beaten her with a metal belt for tattling. The younger was luckily unharmed in this way.

This was over 7 months ago. They still cry whenever anything like this is mentioned, and have to leave school multiple times a month because they have breakdowns.

Moral of the story. In my humble opinion Proven Child molestors and rapista should be tortured and slowly blead to death for their crimes. My sisters should never have been subjected to that. No child should.

Edit: misread your comment. I thought he went after the children...

[–]seatbelt-malfunction0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When the definition of rape has been broadened to include glancing at a passerby woman without her consent, why would we belive every bitch who cries wolf?

[–]ElysiumRTL570 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I feel like she’s playing it down or over exaggerating some key info

[–]dillynmykal0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think everyone needs to watch this:

https://youtu.be/kpayrPH_leY



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