Do any of you guys have the desire to be part of a "tribe"?

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December 28, 2018
85 upvotes

So, this is something I used to believe in quite fervently. I've always viewed close friends as being part of "my tribe", the family you make for yourself. I think people are a lot more primal than we like to believe, and always believed that people on the same wave-length as you could come together, and really have each others' backs.

Now, though... I'm not so sure.

It's no surprise that people are inherently selfish -- it's part of what drives us to improve ourselves -- but over the past years, I've dealt with a lot of broken trust issues. People you thought were there for you, but really weren't. My "tribe" feels like it's eroded to the point that we're all just acquaintances that use each other.

Is this idea, that a group of guys would look out for each other and build each other up, just a naive dream? Or do you think that's something that is still possible, or at least worth pursuing? Or does every man just have to build himself up and expect to be a one-man show for the rest of his life?

Is camaraderie dead?


Post Information
Title Do any of you guys have the desire to be part of a "tribe"?
Author Jcorb
Upvotes 85
Comments 66
Date 28 December 2018 09:15 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/71851
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/aaefmj/do_any_of_you_guys_have_the_desire_to_be_part_of/
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[–]CockyAndHot82 points83 points  (1 child) | Copy

Feeling like you belong is one of the strongest human desires. In primal times you couldn't survive without a tribe. So we've evolved to hate social rejection and confirm to social norms. That's why is so hard to not give a fuck about others opinion.

[–]Gr33d3ater15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

That’s why is so hard to not give a fuck about others opinion.

Also why it’s so important. If you can actually do this, and not just put on airs that you’re doing it (like most women) then you’ll set yourself far apart and slightly above the rest. You still have to be intelligent enough to better yourself on your own because you aren’t going to have that tribalism to protect you. You won’t have, say, the phi psi fraternity bro hiring you in an interview just because you’re a bro.

[–]Mikec1133130 points131 points  (13 children) | Copy

I'm a three-tour combat vet (Iraq and Afghanistan), and retired from the military 4 years ago. I miss my "tribe" terribly, it's one of the hardest things I've dealt with. Being a member of a group that has shared hardships and dangers, shared goals, and been willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the group is an amazing experience, and almost non-existent outside of the military and a very few other professions.

I miss it very badly.

[–]Jcorb[S] 29 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy

I appreciate your response. I've never served, but it still feels like there's something "missing" there all the same. I wonder, sometimes, if that "tribe" mentality existed more in the past? You know, back before moving all across the country was "normal", before media constantly joked that true friendship between guys was "gay", shit like that.

I dunno. It's something I definitely feel is missing in my life, and I guess I wonder if it's just something wrong with me, or if others feel that same sort of "hole" as well.

[–]Mikec11339 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

You may be on to something there. Our success has made life so easy now, that it's taken a lot of the spark, the excitement, danger, importance, out of it for a lot of people. I'd imagine that 100 years ago it was different.

I don't think it's just you. I think most men need a "mission" in life, I believe, to be fulfilled.

[–]RedHoodhandles3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only two instances where it is deemed socially acceptable to touch other males without getting that gay vibe is in sports/contact sports and when men are drunk. I'd say many men are lacking physical touch in general with mental illnesses and drug abusus as negative consequences for example. We play football and get drunk together for a reason.

[–]h040836510 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same bro. I miss the brotherhood...

[–]Mike-o6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Same, brother. I got to go see my buddy for his wedding two years ago, two of our other friends showed up too. Got to spend two weeks with them all, and it felt like I was home again. I miss them all so much it hurts. There's nothing that will ever live up to being in combat with a group of other men.

[–]CRGRO0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Thank you for your service - what branch did you serve in?

[–]Mikec11331 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

US Army.

[–]CRGRO5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pop was in the Navy, but I remember living with a US Army Ranger back when I was finishing my masters. That dude whipped me into shape so fucking fast it was crazy.

[–]Auphor_Phaksache0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

That service was still a separate entity although a very structured one. You survived before it and you will survive after it. Our service was just as much of a brainwashing as cheering WALMART at team meetings. Except its deeply rooted and all the experiences we had were of the maximum magnitude of what could be experienced by literally anyone. This too shall pass brother

[–]Goal10der0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

What other professions do you see this in?

[–]Mikec11338 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

I've seen it in law enforcement in close knit, highly-trained groups, and I can imagine that any group/unit/team where there's actually something to lose (other than someone's juvenile sense of "alpha-male" ego) would have it.

Sebastian Junger wrote a very good book about this topic, called "Tribe", appropriately enough. He gets it. He does a good job explaining what it's all about in that book, I think.

[–]Sero-Flex27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy

I’d highly recommend joining a martial arts gym. I’ve found massive amounts of camaraderie with my teammates at mine. Also the common theme of self improvement and responsibility is very present and permeates through the whole space. Can’t speak more highly of my experience.

[–]novalentineforyou1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

What specific kinds of martial arts gyms do you think do this well? Should I look for one that teaches something specific, like boxing or BJJ?

[–]Sero-Flex7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

The one I go to teaches BJJ, Muay Thai, No-Gi/Wrestling, and MMA. I don’t have any experience with boxing gyms yet. From my experience, the whole cycle of being a beginner in the rookie BJJ class, graduating to the main class, finally finding your footing with sparring after getting your ass kicked for a couple months, and then testing out and honing your skills on the new crop of freshly graduated rookies, really forges a strong bond within the team because we all know that we’ve all been through the same shit at some point. For example, a purple belt is never gonna shit on a white belt because that purple belt was once a white belt themselves and they know how hard that stage of development was. From the opposite perspective, that white belt is gonna have a massive amount of respect for that purple belt for sticking with it so long and powering through all those stages of development and continuing to fine tune their craft. Sorry for rambling there a bit, back to your question: I think any well structured gym will give you a similar experience, no matter what they teach (as long as it’s legitimate, read: not bullshito, always do your research when selecting what you’re gonna train and what gym you’re going to train it at). That being said, the one I train at currently is the only gym I’ve spent any considerable amount of time with. I assume a shitty gym would give you a very different experience. Hope this helped. Feel free to PM me if you want more details or advice.

[–]onlinehumzu0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So your gym wasn't shit?

[–]thisisnotme__--14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can relate pretty well.

I think part of why maintaining a tribe is so difficult is that life is easier for people in advanced countries than it's ever been in history. Part of what holds tribes together is common challenges, whether that be the common challenge of daily survival or a common enemy. These things, for better and worse, are not a part of modern life for most people. Most of the substitutes that we have are not intense enough to have the same effect as daily threats to survival, so people are much more able to go their own way.

[–]Mewster181822 points23 points  (3 children) | Copy

I've never really cared for the notion of a "tribe", I just focus on keeping a couple great friends around whose company I enjoy despite all our differences.

To me a "tribe" has to act as a unit in some sense, and I don't think that's necessarily healthy outside of the family unit.

[–]1984Survivor5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

is it healty in the family unit tho?

[–]Mewster18186 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

To a certain extent the family needs to act as a unit to maintain healthy function so yes. For example, good parents will work as a team even if their roles in that team differ, and they may have to be willing to sacrifice differences in opinion for the good of the unit.

A group of friends shouldn't come with expectations of conformity, obviously don't be friends with people who you cannot stand to be around. But there shouldn't be the same level of expectation to put yourself aside for the groups needs.

[–]NeuroMnemonic76 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This.

[–]DirtyBastard133 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Camaraderie, religion, honor, whatever you want to call it: that and a dollar might buy you a burger. If you're lucky, you can at least count on yourself.

If you find a tribe and fit in, great as long as you stay within what the tribe accepts. But it's rare and human nature is still wretched. A person would sell thier own grandma for a good enough offer. There are plenty of boys and not enough men, Millenials are a disgrace, and i'm ashamed to be amoung them.

Personally, I value my independence too much and am too comfortable being alone, i don't like answering to anyone but myself. A tribe as far as im concerned is unlikely.I've got major trust issues, that and major issues finding trustworthy people. My life has been so odd that fitting in is hard at best. My past is enough to ensure that I'll never be accepted in a church, even if my faith returned.

As life went on, The friends I considered under my aegis as family of choice have drifted away or fallen to various follies. Two of my inner circle of brothers are hopelessly bluepill, one is sorta waking up but lacks the willpower to change, and one is completely bogged down by picking up where his father abdicated his responsibilities (to say nothing of the mother). And one completely lost his shit, going from respectable to degenerate. Friends have devolved into acquaintances if still anything.

[–]Yoshiiiiiiiiii108 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s been scientifically proven in studies that humans bond most through difficulties. The kind of things that bond people now aren’t as hardcore of a difficulty. Sports or any sort of team oriented activity that forced people to suffer together is going to give you more and more bond.

[–]coriollanvs2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Having someone who may die for you is one of the most beatiful things, priceless.

[–]FilthMonger852 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Read Jack Donovan's 3 books. Talks mostly about this exact topic.

[–]Angelrun3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Put the squad first

[–]jenovajunkie4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everyone wants to belong at some level. Could you imagine having nothing in common with ANYTHING?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think it's naive, it depends on what you bond over and what kinds of people you bond over with.

The most common tribe is a group of people who comes together because of some collective goal. Like the gym bros. Doesn't necessarily mean you are similar people, just that you have similar goals and are sharing experiences.

Then there is the other type of bonding where you bond over being similar types of people. Circumstances (mostly) irrelevant. I think this is the most powerful type of bonding but it requires a good amount of self knowledge and being comfortable with yourself. Most people spend their whole lives pretending to be someone else.

In other words, it's bonding over a collective identity and bonding over individuality. If that makes sense. I think the latter is what you are looking for. My experiences with it? It's difficult and often lonely. Like I said it takes a lot of introspection. It's like bonding with yourself and a lot of people aren't comfortable with that. I think it's worth pursuing and I still have hope.

[–]MartinVDK911 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think in our feminine society we have attached feminine characteristics to a tribe. What do you mean by "people were there for you"? It's different how men build themselves up, very different and because the media is so heavily influenced by female journalists, authors, writers (because these are professions they flock to the most) we have a scewed picture of what a tribe means to us. Also that is the reason, why problems occure like you had.

For me, I see a tribe as a giving and taking exchange. Think of it as an imaginary savings account, where you put things on you do for your friends and where you can than withdraw something for you. Men live through respect they receive from others. This can be thinking of birthday gratulations, asking what the other one is doing, going out together, in general simply making time for the other.I could never imagine a a guy friend of mine who hugs me, when I told him something bad that happened to me. That would be just ultimatly gay.

I would not see this "use each other" as something negative. It's actually the foundation how a tribe works.

[–]classicrando0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

add use each other story here

[–]its_meKnightSwolaire1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I became a mason

[–]Vikingcel1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don't you have to be religious?

[–]its_meKnightSwolaire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You have to believe in a higher power yes

[–]zenRP0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

How do you like it?

[–]its_meKnightSwolaire0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Absolutely love it.

Highly recommend the book Fremasonry for Dummies if you want to know more

[–]zenRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, I'll check it out!

[–]fghvdfujvfdhkjbffg1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hell yeah I do. But here's what I've noticed: guys will either value hoes over Bros or act like bitches. Doesn't matter if I'm going through hard times or good times, I always have to seem like I'm doing good. Otherwise, everything goes to shit

[–]HectoSexual1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Relevant book: The Way of Men by Jack Donovan

[–]ProFriendZoner3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

No, don't really have any desire to be in a tribe.

[–]onlinehumzu-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Excuse me... Mr.dark triad wannabe

[–]ProFriendZoner0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Easy Skippy. Just not my thing.

[–]SidewaysCircle2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fraternity.

It has been going on since the beginning of time.

[–]MegladonBass 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy

Try again buddy

[–]SidewaysCircle-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hm?

[–]Daddeus650 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Once you are in something you truly consider your tribe, you seriously miss it once it's gone.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

When men are in a situation where they can fuck each other over, they will. I have a core group of really close friends, but we're that way because we've been through some really tough stuff together. Also, if you're the leader of the group and you aren't attracting quality girls to your friend group guys will leave.

[–]pickyourselfupman0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thinking about joining the military. I grew up with a group of friends in my neighborhood where we spent all day everyday for over a decade hanging out with each other. We knew just about everything about each other and talked openly and honestly about anything and everything and told the most offensive but hilarious jokes to each other without fear of offending or there being violence or repercussions because because we knew we were all just joking and having fun.

We had each others backs, but I imagine the difference in the military is that the extent to which that is tested is as high as it gets and it’s constant. It’s not like some dude is talking shit and threatening one of your friends, but you’re at war with people who want to kill you and your friends, and you’re on guard 24/7. It doesn’t get any closer than knowing that your m8s are in the shit with you and would gladly lay down their life for you because they know you would do the same, and you’re all striving towards a central goal together, and all of this is proven by your and their own actions day after day. It’s fucking glorious really.

I still see some of my friends (even among the ones who are still in my area) on a semi-regular basis, but I miss the days where we had no care or responsibilities and we could hangout altogether all day. Just a natural part of getting older, especially in this modern world, but damn I miss those guys and those times.

[–]adonis_syche0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I think few people have mentioned it already here. If you want something like the army vet has mentioned, you'd have join some sort of club/activity, which gives you all a common challenge or a goal to work with. Martial arts, gym, sports etc etc. Meetup is a website which might help you I guess. Or any club in your city. The tribe mentality esp. From martial arts club is the strongest one I've exeperinced by far. As strong as Irish group of mates, which is darn strong. Hope it helps..cheers :)

[–]RedHoodhandles0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

'The way of men is the way of the gang.'

[–]moltenw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Being a part of a "community" /"tribe" etc is completely fine, as long as you don't involve your Ego, and by ego, I mean making that your identity.

"I'm a [insert surname], that's how we do things!" - no, you just are and you have given your surname / family a symbolic value. It's not real, but it has real effects.

"I'm an american, so I need to protect my country" - not really. Do so if you wish to, absolutely nothing wrong with that, but don't make it "a part of you", essentially. Just do it because you want to and that's it.

"I'm a mother; so I think that blah blah blah is the best for a child" - the mother has convinced herself that since she is a mother, and she has given it a symbolic value, that she knows best what's needed for her child. In reality - she is right only if ... she really is right, and not because she's a mother or even "thinks" that she's right.

There's no need to idealize blue pill ideals, wants and fantasies - just be. Be you, do things that you think and are inportant, but don't make them becone a part of you. If you like a certain group of people (tribe), just leave it at that. Don't make it something more than it really is.

[–]Thizzlebot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Make a better tribe. It's awesome.

[–]Drakonlord0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I like being apart of many tribes but belonging to none. I have no loyalty to anyone, except my mother.

[–]Lorddevonshire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Camaraderie is not dead. Find your tribe. It can be a few members to many. Everyone has the innate desire to "fit in"

[–]prankster9990 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

In my experience, I found that my friends let me down. The only sense of belonging I get now is through work... but those days of having friends, or being part of a gang? Those days are long over.

[–]trp282870 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’m from the ME and my tribe is my family. I’ve had friends doing shitty things to me or not being willing to make sacrifices for me, but family is always there. Feels nice knowing that 70+ cousins and over a dozen uncles got your back

[–]sperrygarcia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This probably the most common element in the "manosphere" and also why it is primarily made up of ENFJs if you were to do an MBTI test

[–]mineralranch0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think camaraderie is dead, it's just difficult to find. People usually come together over some sort of common goal. That goal can be anything really: climbing mountains, getting fucked up, writing songs, feeding homeless people... Once that goal is gone, or people lose interest in it, the tribe deteriorates.

I've experienced this in my own life multiple times. I think it's just normal at this point. I can count the number of people I can truly depend on on one hand. When I was younger I mistakenly thought I could count them on both hands and maybe a foot. The truth is, loyalty is exceptionally rare. Never expect someone to be loyal to you unless they've explicitly stated as much. When you hit rough times, take notice of who sticks around and really nurture those relationships. This goes both ways though. Only surround yourself with people who are of a high standard and show them loyalty.

Life's rough. It's even rougher when you've got no one on your side. I think the idea of a lone wolf who can wheel and deal and takes no shit from anyone is a myth.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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