Why do women dislike seeing low-SMV men improve themselves / become successful.

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April 30, 2018

Long story short, I used to be an Omega-level low-SMV guy (the kind that even teachers and band geeks made laughed at, had nobody show up to his high school graduation party and even his own sister did not want to be seen with him him in public) and I have turned my life around for the better.

In the past four years since I found /r/TheRedPill, I have become more fit than the average person (can pass all military fitness tests), experienced incredible things while traveling abroad, made a group of great friends that respect me and established myself as a professional (am finishing up my first academic paper, graduating with honors in a couple of weeks, and have a dream job lined up for me after graduation and can afford to live next to the beach in another state). I have never been happier in my life.

While most women I newly-meet are impressed by what I have accomplished, the ones that used to know me (including my mother, sister and aunt) before seem downright insulted. I have once eavesdropped on a sorority girl who pegged me as a loser before literally say, "He does not deserve any of that!" referring to me in an upset tone. Another time when I used to work part-time at a food joint, customers would always compliment me on my voice (been told many times that I have a voice for movie trailers or acting) while ignoring my young female coworkers. "Why does he get compliments and not us? That is such bullshit..." Even my own sister bitched at me when she saw me on a coffee date with a decent-SMV girl (i.e., "That is not okay! You need to be more open-minded and tolerant! ").

Why do women dislike it when they see former low-SMV men become successful?

Post Information
Title Why do women dislike seeing low-SMV men improve themselves / become successful.
Author EmergencyVersion
Upvotes 139
Comments 72
Date 30 April 2018 12:25 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit askTRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/95959
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/8fvl5o/why_do_women_dislike_seeing_lowsmv_men_improve/
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sexual market valuethe red pill

[–][deleted] 180 points181 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you passed on buying land that turned out to have a gold vein under it you might be a cunt about it if you had zero insight and thought you were the center of the universe.

Same thing.

[–]PuffyCheek 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Not sure if that'd explain his family's disdain though.

[–]AhhhhSalmonSkinRoll16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

that’s easily explained by the seemingly rampant crabs-in-a-bucket mentality

[–]3chazthundergut143 points144 points  (6 children) | Copy

They have already seen the beta side of you.

Now that you are transforming yourself into an alpha, they are going to kick and scream and resist and shit test you like no other. The reason for this is that they have a biological imperative to test your fitness and make sure that you really are what you are pretending to be. And because they've already seen the other side of you, they see this "new and improved" side as fake or counterfeit. It is incongruent, and this is a major red flag to a chick.

This is actually a great opportunity to practice maintaining your newly developing frame. Are these comments going to break you? Is some goofy whore's disapproval going to send you into the corner crying? Are you going to beg for their approval and seek their validation?

If so, they are right about you, and you are still a beta.

So treat this like a test (which it is). It is nature ensuring that you are actually transforming the core of yourself, and not just the surface.

Also this is good motivation for you to go and meet new chicks and expand your circle. Since they never saw the beta side of you, they aren't sensing any incongruence and they won't shit test you nearly as hard.

[–]michael_121518 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is the best comment

[–]metallica112 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy


[–]Jampak_50003 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

yeah. its a massive shit test, to see if NEW him is REAL him or not.

If he comes through it - his frame will be solid

[–]altlegend1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its not easy but the thing holding me back from slapping dog shit out some women is reminding myself "NEVER LET A BABA GET YOU MAD"

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Literally whats happening to me now. I fucking know this shit. I am done second guessing myself now.

[–]hawkeaglejesus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

To add to this. What OP is experiencing is a frame battle.

Their frame is "you're a weak, pathetic, low-SMV male." His frame is "I'm a strong, valuable, high-SMV man"

Only one of those can be true. And it's going to be the one with the strongest frame.

[–]VladvonK46 points47 points  (2 children) | Copy

No advice for you OP, just wanted to say fuck yeah I’m happy for you even though you’re an internet stranger. Awesome accomplishments, hope you enjoy the fruits of your labor.

[–]coriollanvs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is what our society needs.

[–]purplefidgetmidget34 points35 points  (4 children) | Copy

This may be conjecture, but based on my experiences I don't think it's necessarily about low-SMV men, but about men that have been put into the mental friend-zone (of course, because they have low SMV).

Once a girl friend-zone's a guy, any increase in his SMV hurts her ego.

I think a girl that hasn't considered a guy before and is aware that he's probably low-SMV but hasn't personally ranked him can therefore rise to a high SMV, get noticed, and get laid. But a guy with low SMV that she has personally ranked, perhaps because he tried to chat her up, will never succeed and a rise in SMV will hurt her ego if she admits that the guy is actually more attractive now.

I think the ego thing depends on the girl but it's definitely there.

The male equivalent is telling your mates a girl is ugly and then later seeing her tarted up in makeup looking quite hot. You can't hit on her now because you just told all your mates that you think she's ugly, so you get annoyed at her. Well, the last part isn't true since guys aren't petty like that. But you get the idea.

[–]Zahlix 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

the last part isn't true since guys aren't petty like that.

hahahahahaha, sure

[–]purplefidgetmidget6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

True, I have in fact looked at /r/incels before it closed down.

But I think in general men know that we can't blame other people for our problems because nobody gives a shit, our value and SMV are both tied to our ability to provide useful functions, which in turn is usually tied to status, and thus SMV. Alpha mentality and behaviour boosts status and thus SMV.

[–]Zahlix0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

men know that we can't blame other people for our problems

seriously, have you actually met the average guy on the streets? They are as petty and fickle as most women. I hear them blame every one and every thing except for themselves. Self delusion could become the next olympic sport seeing how good people are getting at it.

RP men, that is obviously a different story.

[–]purplefidgetmidget0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I can see what you're saying, but TRP is built upon an understanding of The Hamster which is a tool of the woman. She will lie cheat deceive manipulate persuade beg cry etc. to get her way, and she will feel no remorse or empathy while doing so. I don't think even the most petty of men can truly do that.

We're talking about people so 'petty' that if they're caught cheating they will say they were raped and maintain this lie indefinitely without remorse. I don't think men do things like that. Even incels.

[–]abdada109 points110 points  (10 children) | Copy

All women are aware of The Wall -- even if it's just subconscious knowledge.

The Wall for men is totally different and not based on looks or body. A woman's version of the Wall is entirely looks, body and attitude. Once she loses that stuff, it's over. No amount of "self help" or structured living will fix it.

So a man has every opportunity to make tomorrow better by bettering himself, while a woman has to deal with nature's wrath.

When she's 16-22, she's peaked. That's it. There's no "better" typically. But for a man, he doesn't peak until 31 and then it's a beautiful plateau for the next 20-30 years, if he wants it.

[–]saltyafrican24 points25 points  (8 children) | Copy

I enjoy reading your comments and agree with your take on this. I've noticed you and others have mentioned 31 as when a man could peak. What is the significance of 31?

[–]btrpb17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy

40yo here. Life is as good as ever.

[–]pollodustino32 points33 points  (1 child) | Copy

You're no longer a boy, and you're not yet old. You're now an adult, with the looks to match. Whether or not you're a man is up to you.

[–]1z1z2x2x3c3c4v4v8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I would also add, that by your early 30s, you have just enough wisdom from your experiences and the mistakes you have made as a young inexperienced man, that you can make even better choices and decisions going forwards.

You now get to build upon your successes up to this point (in life, love, and career), but the rise can be more exponential now.

[–]omega_dawg932 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

this is critical information. look up men's hormones, esp. testosterone and HGH, and how they BOTH "fall off the cliff" at about 31 - 33 yrs old.

so, while you're peaking as a man mentally, physically, and beginning a financial climb, your hormones are just about ready to take a nosedive.


and if you can't naturally, seek TRT therapy. do NOT let your hormones crater right when the rest of your life is peaking.

[–]saltyafrican1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks, I'm currently lifting 5-6 days a week but need to eat more (weed withdrawals).

[–]abdada3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

There was a really good thread on the main TRP sub within the past week, let me see if I can find it.

[–]saltyafrican3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks man

[–]DntPnicIGotThis2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

this is not true. I'm 32 and still find ways to improve myself to be better off than I was year to year.

I think the "wall" is wherever you build it, man or woman, yet most women choose to hit it in their 20s after a few rides on the carousel.

The reason why is because (some) women figure while they are young that they can lock down some BP sucker to take care of them for the next 20 or so years (before divorcing and taking half on way out)

Men, however, learn very early on that nobody is going take care of them and life is a struggle if you don't take care of yourself.

We are mentally equipped to avoid the wall, because to hit the wall too soon would mean to experience certain hardship.

[–]HyperSensitiveSigma3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men hit the wall when they stop trying.

[–]2SirKolbath36 points37 points  (14 children) | Copy

All of the answers here are correct, but they are leaving out the simple fact that when a woman has a higher SMV than you have, she is in control. She can make you an orbiter, squeeze you for cash and prizes, and essentially use you as a toy.

But if your SMV is higher than hers, she loses that control. She doesn't see it as a challenge - women loathe challenges. She sees it as a direct threat to her power. Even though she may feel she deserves a 8-10, she privately knows she herself is probably more likely to be a 6-7, and a true 8-10 will replace her in 6-7 seconds.

It boils down to her wanting power over you. The greater the SMV difference between you, with her on top, the more power she has. When reversed, the less she has.

[–]IckeSvensk 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy

Im just interested in knowing how the guys who manage to spin plates look. How would you rate yourself (face only) 0-10/10?

[–]All-DayErrDay1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't think you're ready for TRP looking at your post history my friend.

[–]truedemocracy3-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nah, frame is what is important. I have seen PLENTY of higher SMV guys break frame and lose relationship control to a bitch of a wife.

It's not about SMV it's about frame

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Stronger frame leads to a higher percieved SMV, so you are both right

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

It threatens their perception of reality.

[–]Wrath_of_Trump8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

They believe it is deception. By not being the perfect "you" the first time they meet you, and consciously changing, it processes in their brain as some type of manipulation. An obese neckbeard going full Chad had to be the product of someone sitting them down and explaining the rules of how to be desirable. Women hate verbal communication of unspoken rules, it is the opposite of flirtation and will make her lizard brain go apeshit. Men, on the other hand, are big fans of verbal communication, it is the basis of civilization and law. It's why attempts to make men and women "the same" through feminization is going to end very, very badly for everyone.

[–]RunawayGrain5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

They believe it is deception. By not being the perfect "you" the first time they meet you, and consciously changing, it processes in their brain as some type of manipulation.

It's projection. How do women enhance their SMV? Via makeup, plastic surgery, etc, which is pretty much deception. So if they see a guy doing much better, then it also has to be deception since that's how they themselves operate.

[–]Wrath_of_Trump4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

They don't see makeup as enhancing their value, it's just something all girls do so it "doesn't count." It's retarded, but it's true. They've accepted it as just normal and beyond criticism. Girls will shit on other girls who get bolt on tits due to artificially raising their SMV, true. However getting your shit together and changing your trajectory of loserdom, that's a shift which was incalculable in the natural world, i.e. her initial rating of him did not factor in this possibility because the natural expression of himself pointed away from a value-driven lifestyle. It's not beyond belief that a girl will dump makeup on her face, it's the expectation. For a incel loser to get his shit together, to them, that is like a pair of bolt on tits. It wasn't supposed to happen, at least not without unnatural intervention - which is where their resentment comes from. Their lizard brain thinks they're doing some type of favor to the gene pool by trying to cockblock him in life.

[–]ryndarandy6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

I also believe that you have to deal with the shadow of your past, they know how you were and probably still think of you that way, that’s why the new people you met respect you, because they only know your new attitude , so don’t give a fuck about the old people and try to build your new person around new people

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Several reasons for this:

- Women are biologically designed to dislike fake alphas. So once they label you as beta, your success is fake.

- Women are biologically designed to exploit beta males. So once they label you as a provider, they don't want you wising up and getting laid for free.

You're judged on yourself at your lowest, and your success is interpreted in that context. If you were a beta in the past, your current success is fake. If you were an alpha in the past and a beta now, you just got lucky back then.

Never show weakness, even for a split second.

[–]bigbodybuilderr7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

"If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin' "

[–]civilizedfrog2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think the reason why they get upset is because you are trying to jump from their "nice guy" aka faggatron list to their "gotta fuck em" list. If any one of these girls were dating you during all this time, she would personally tell everyone that she was the one who found and polished the "diamond in the rough". Since these girls lost that opportunity and now regret that, they respond by being all pissy.

[–]BJJTallon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Having this happen to me. But the difference between the old me, and the new me is IDGAF. Disregard Bitches. Acquire Aesthetics. Have a nice day brah.

[–]Nutman-maddog4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It’s just another fine display of crab bucket mentality. Call them out on it too, observe them to try justify themselves. See where the hamster wheel goes

[–]Ill_Will71 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think its because people of your past have already pegged you as a beta loser and that they are better than you and being better than you makes them feel better about themselves. Its like a race, they felt better knowing you were last and it put them 1 position higher than you. Now that your zooming by them, you have dropped their position a point and have insulted their pathetic source of power over you

[–]YongeArcade1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Why do women dislike it when they see former low-SMV men become successful?

Women are petty and do not like others improving themselves because they themselves should improve themselves. So seeing someone improve they are not happy for them, instead you are a reminder that they have no will power or resolve. So out comes the "mean girls".

[–]Nergaal1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Cognitive dissonance. You trained people to think of you one way. If you ever go back to your old low value, those people will smile at you (not strictly in a mean way) basically telling you "but you've always been XYZ" but they won't have to deal with the dissonance.

[–]lord-denning1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women like the idea of “figuring a guy out” and knowing his slot, and when that is challenged it potentially invalidates their skill at assessment. Women are deathly afraid of being “Tricked” by a beta which is why they shit test.

This is why for example it is so challenging to get out of the friend zone.

[–]cl35371 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stop trying to impress women, that is not redpill. You will realize when you are actually successful nobody wants to hear about it.

People with money (not the nouveau rich) don't make a big deal about money and aren't impressed by it. The same goes for someone who will get a 'good job' soon.

You do you, and stop worrying about validation from others.

[–]Notfappening0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The crabs in a bucket attempt pull down the crab that tries to climb out. Dont let them. People like to maintain the status quo and take it personally when others succeed. I assume these people build themselves up by putting you down, now that you're up, they feel less than. Sound like crappy people, cut them out of your life and do you, man. You're doing great. It's hard, but I say don't give a fuck what they think and keep on crushing it. I see this as a sign you have improved your life considerably. Rock on bro

[–]jizzonmypants0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The same reason we don’t like seeing woman with plastic surgery or tons of make up, they feel cheated, although if you manage to overcome those difficulties they are not gonna give a fuck about your past because they see the present

[–]redlittleboot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

People resist change

[–]altlegend0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Women have a dumb ideology of allowing things to approach them rather than go for what they want. We see it in relationships, families, etc. Not all women clearly, there are female CEO's and such. However, I would blame the testosterone we have that pushes RP men to work and strive for their dreams. Think about it this way, we all dream, right? Yet, some of us work and progress to achieving the dream we have and others just dream and ponder on it, both dreams. But, pondering about a dream isn't validated by anything, just a few electrical pulses in your brain I guess. Women get mad because they expect the results and achievements to find or approach them. Instead of accepting the harsh reality that its rare for that to happen successfully and its up to them to go after their achievements and desires. I see this in High School, where they complain about the teacher on their grading, rather than their own personal effort. They have available Computer Programing sessions (girls only) with an attendance of around 10. They wont accept the fact that you got to work towards what you want not wait for it to be in front of your face ready for you to cherry pick. "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder but don't nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weights" - Ronnie Coleman

[–]Zanford0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Because they crave the best genes. If a low SMV-man can improve himself, women fear they might accidentally spermjack low quality sperm.

For whatever reason, 'drive and ability to improve oneself' are not seen as, themselves, good genes. Perhaps the trait has low heritability.

It's prob why women love fairy tale settings where the high-SMV men are high-SMV from birth and have their SMV broadcast in the form of crowns and clothing that distinguish upper/lower class.

Btw, did you specifically work on your voice? That could be a good TRP subject in itself, as not many guys do anything to optimize their voice

[–]imaginethegainz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

He does not deserve any of that


[–]HyperSensitiveSigma0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Why do women dislike it when they see former low-SMV men become successful?

Cos you went off script, Truman. (True-man)

[–]Jampak_50000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

crabs in a bucket.

they hate to see someone climb out.

also, the more haters you got, the more you're making it.

Its not a direct correlation, but you get the idea.

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Heeeey - your story is similar to mine mate. I was never an 'omega' but definitely wasnt successful with women growing up. Never went to a dance until senior prom with a friend, didnt kiss a girl until drunkenly at a college party (she was fat too), never really had any style or hobbies outside of video games growing up either.

And while the change didnt happen overnight I used college as a 'reset'. I joined the best fraternity I could (was easy to re-invent myself with new wardrobe and people who didnt know how lame I was in H.S.) - this gave me instant social proof and exposure to women where I made countless mistakes before getting better. Focused big time on academics to land a good career - part of this I regret. My self esteem was so low that I felt the only way I could get a wife would be because of money and thus tried to get the best job out of college possible. DONT DO THIS.

And finally it wasnt until the last 4-5 years where I decided to prioritize fitness in my life and work out religiously. So now I have a bunch of great life experiences (travel, cool hobbies), a great body, a great job, confidence, etc. and have no trouble with women. ALL of whom are very high caliber (doctors, lawyers, former college cheerleaders). So the transformation IS possible.

But it's NOT just women who dislike seeing low smv men improve. It's EVERYONE. Your mom will hold you back because in motherly fashion she thinks you are great the way you are. Most likely if you got into your situation you dont have any strong masculine role models. I cant speak to women because frankly I knew no women in my 'before and after' transformation, but had PLENTY of guy friends who I abandoned as I climbed the ladder. The ones that are true friends stuck around, but you will get plenty of "why are you dressing like that", "you look like a douche bag", "No I dont want to do (x cool vacation adventure) I want to get drunk on the beach every day instead". People hate improvement because it serves as a painful reflection of why they are standing still in life. My advice? Screw everyone and focus on yourself.

[–]BeATrumpet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck yeah bro. Keep kicking ass and seriously, fuck those people. Surround yourself with success-minded people.

[–]circlingldn0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

because youre a fucking doormat, and not even that, you want to be treated like one

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Same reason people started shitting on bitcoin when it was skyrocketing: they missed the boat and they're pissed

[–]beermagnate0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

They're just jealous cunts. Cut them out of your life! (not talking about family of course)

[–]omega_dawg930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

family is family, and there is respect given. but sometimes, you gotta say, "fuck you," to family too.

[–]shubhidoobi-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hater's gonna hate, who gives a shit.

Edit: also next time, call them on their bullshit.

[–]exscionewhuman-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

You may as well ask why do human beings display crab in the bucket mentality and be human beings. You know the answer.

I think your question is better asked from a male perspective. Let's imagine there are men competing for women, and let's say I am chad thundercock and you are going after a girl I want. I display good genetics, but also charisma, intelligence, have money, etc. Yet she goes after you the hypothetical danny devito of the genetic pool (huge hypothetical). In the natural course of things chad would just challenge danny to battle and we know how that would go.

You are pretending that you can compete with and beat other men. Women instinctively know you can't. If you are verne troyer no amount of game is going to fix that.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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