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cmv: "incels" and women who haven't been proposed to- involuntary unmarried - are in the same boat.

September 21, 2022
4 upvotes

Incels and involuntary unmarried women both have desires. One wants to have sex, and the other wants marriage. However, both have difficult times reaching their goals.

Involuntary unmarried women will NOT admit that they yearn for marriage, so they just deny it. Just as incels claim to not want women, or hate on women, when everyone knows they just want to be with women.

They are one in the same. Yes, Involuntary unmarried women can get sex with as many men as they want, despite their looks, age, and health. But having sex with men doesn't prove you are valuable to men. Any girl can spread her legs and let a man, or whatever, fuck her. Being that no man has proposed to you, it means that men do NOT value you as much as you think.

Being that literally any man will stick his dick in you doesn't mean you are valuable just because you let certain men fuck you. It actually is the opposite, it means those men are valuable and NOT you. Your value only come from men who are willing to propose to you, and ask you to marry them. That act means you are valuable to at least ONE man. Regardless if you agree to marry him or not.

The takeaway is that just because women let some men fuck them does NOT make them more valuable than "incels".

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Post Information
Title cmv: "incels" and women who haven't been proposed to- involuntary unmarried - are in the same boat.
Author _Duriel_1000_
Upvotes 4
Comments 34
Date September 21, 2022 5:16 PM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/cmv-incels-and-women-who-havent-been-proposed-to.1139572
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139572
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/xkaxni/cmv_incels_and_women_who_havent_been_proposed_to/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–]Kappador66 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wrong. Why do people always forget the foundation of human sexual and romantic relationships: Women are the selectors.

Involuntary unmarried women are women who couldn't find a man who ticks all their boxes. They could easily find a man who would marry them. They remain the selectors.

Incels were simply not selected by any women period. Entirely different thing.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope. A woman opens her legs for certain men, yes. But opening your legs for men does not mean that the woman is valuable to him. As I stated, most men will fuck a woman who spreads their legs, that's a given. Therefore, allowing certain men to fuck her does NOT make her valuable than men who aren't able to find women who want to fuck them.

Men and women have different goals. A mans goal is to fuck women. A womans goal is to get married. Incels and women who haven't been proposed to can NOT reach their goals, therefore, they are in the same boat.

[–]zoloftabuser 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When are incels admitting they don’t want women? If you think incels just want sex, let me introduce to this thing called prostitution.

[–]anonymous-platypus1 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Here’s the thing; I would like to be married. But I would not want to be married to just anyone. If women really wanted to just be married that badly, they would honestly just date the “low value” men to secure that ring. Also, this implies that all of these women have had failed long term relationships, dating is hard for everyone nowadays. You really do need to take the 40% match you find and round that sucker up to 75%. But sometimes that’s just not feasible. I meet a lot of conservative men that are super interested in me. But they also don’t want to talk about politics because they know our values don’t align there: it’s not something I’m willing to move on because it makes me incompatible. One of these men has been consistently messaging me, email, phone calls from different numbers for years now. If I picked up the phone and told him that a parameter for me talking to him again would be marriage he’d be on board. But I do not want to be married to just anyone.

Also, half the reasons marriages fail so much is because men get married when they feel it’s time, and women tend say yes when they are proposed to: neither of those speaks to whether or not marriage was the best option. No one should be getting married out of duty or societal pressures in modern times because it will not work.

Just like men here say that women that marry men that settle will end up with dead bedrooms, this is why. There wasn’t real love, it was getting a need met. And marriage has zero benefits for modern women, so they should only do it if they are absolutely in love.

Incels anger is aimed at not getting something they see as being given to others. So many incels say they’d be happier if no one was having sex/dating casually. They don’t care they aren’t having sex, they care because other people are having sex and they can’t. They literally want women to simply want them , that’s it. If women were just hoeing for anyone with no standards or chase involved, incels would find a way to be mad that other men have access to women that actually want to settle down.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 4 points5 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Here’s the thing; I would like to be married. But I would not want to be married to just anyone.

Sounds like the men you want to marry dont want to marry you.

[–]anonymous-platypus1 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

So let’s break down what you said though: I’m choosing to not be married, I’m not involuntarily unmarried, I don’t want to marry just any old guy. I’ve actually never even seen a guy, no matter how attractive, that exhibits the qualities of a man I would get married to.

Like I said, there are no benefits to marriage for modern women; I can get commitment if I just wanted it from any man willing to give it.

But I also don’t want to commit to just anyone. I’d rather be single then settle for a boyfriend that I’m not happy with. Dating is hard because the men I want seem to not exist. Sure, my expectations may then be termed unrealistic, but at this point I’m not even asking for tall or rich; just a man that shares my social and economic values. Seems easy, but as a woman of color, even men in my own community tend to have views I do not agree with. Men from other communities have families that would not agree with our dating; and I don’t want to deal with racism.

Some women are perfectly happy taking a hit on some of their own personal beliefs as compared to their partners: those women tend to be surprised when their partner has different views about raising children/marriage duties. It only works if it’s 100% not talked about.

Value of a person doesn’t exist: that only means you’re expecting external gratification from a relationship that should only include the two chosen people. A woman that only cares about a man’s money/status that’s dated a man that only cares about her looks will probably get dumped if her “value” decreases, that’s not love, that’s not affection.

Most women are equating marriage with a happy life and loving companionship: we were told that from the cradle that that’s what we needed to be happy. But that’s really all we want and it’s quickly becoming clear that marriage will not guaranty that. Sure some what the traditional role; but that’s definitely a transactional relationship.

Incels are bothered that they cannot get women simply because other men are getting women and having sex. They are obsessed with comparing themselves to men they feel are intellectually and morally inferior to them, and are astounded that women are flocking to those men instead. They are angry that women are not freely having sex specifically with them. They take their self hatred and spew it back at women in an attempt to lower their self esteem so that they can be “knocked down a few pegs”.

I’m not angry that other women are married and I’m not. Im a little sad that fairytale relationships don’t exist, and I have to choose which vital factors are worth crossing off my list.

Most people do not find perfect matches, everyone settles, but that’s probably why most modern marriages end in divorce.

I

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I’m choosing to not be married, I’m not involuntarily unmarried,

You said: I would like to be married.

What type of man do you want to get married to? What are you doing to reach that goal? Nothing? Similar to the "incels" to get better with women? Has one man on this entire planet ever at least proposed to you? No? Similar to "incels" who can't get a woman. Or an incel claiming "I can't find a woman I want to fuck"?

I don’t want to marry just any old guy.

Who said you did? As I mentioned, the men you want to marry don't want to marry you. They aren't proposing to you. They aren't dating you?

I’ve actually never even seen a guy, no matter how attractive, that exhibits the qualities of a man I would get married to.

This comment alone highlights how far from reality you are. This may be worse than an incel saying he's never seen one girl on this planet that he'd have sex with... Yikes!!

Like I said, there are no benefits to marriage for modern women;

You said: I would like to be married.

I hope others see what is going on here. Thank you for your display.

[–]anonymous-platypus1 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I said I’d like to be married; but only to my ideal partner. If I’m in love then the benefits of marriage, or lack of them don’t matter.

If I’m going to be honest and not banned for bringing up race, religion and sexuality issues.

Im a woman of color, many of the eligible men in my community that I’m mutually attracted to that have great job, good families, and are conventionally handsome have religious beliefs that don’t match with mine, often paired with a disdain for homosexual men. I am not going to date a homophobic asshole, just because it literally checks every other box on my list. I tried it, it gave me the ick. He was unattractive the moment he started bashing gay people for just existing.

Next, men that don’t come from my community that have good jobs and good families often find out how racist their family is AFTER they bring me around. And while the men always apologize, it’s a huge thing for me to ask them not have any relationship with their families; though how people claim to not know their family is racist is beyond me.

And I am not religious, so again, that takes out any deeply religious men that has interest in me. I don’t care if you want to practice, I’ll go to church, but if you have problematic religious beliefs it’s no go for me.

Handsome/quality men are technically abundant. They just don’t share the morals I need them to share.

Now, like I said, mostly everybody settles, it’s not a bad thing, you just have to make sure you settle on the right qualities that won’t negatively impact your relationship later on.

If I find a guy who has all the moral qualities I want, even if he’s short/ugly/not doing the best financially, he’d still be a great match because we would be able to connect in ways that matter and last.

I can go date and marry the conventionally attractive, tall, rich “chad” that’s loudly homophobic whose family tells me I speak well; but that would be settling for just monetary advancement and that’s not what I want.

[–]lostwanderer28 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incels anger is aimed at not getting something they see as being given to others. So many incels say they’d be happier if no one was having sex/dating casually. They don’t care they aren’t having sex, they care because other people are having sex and they can’t. They literally want women to simply want them , that’s it. If women were just hoeing for anyone with no standards or chase involved, incels would find a way to be mad that other men have access to women that actually want to settle down.

This made me just realize that it would be super helpful if people wouldn't post their entire private life onto social media where everyone can see it.

Yes people get envious of each other. I mean even posting your food on social media is super wrong. Someone from the other side of the world could see it, someone who cannot afford such food and would simply get envious. On top of that there was never a reason for me to post that food on social media, I could have just ate it enjoyed it and be done with it.

I believe another layer of issue is that us humans overshare things with the entire world without realizing the complications it brings. This would mean that it is no problem that others are having sex as long as they don't do it in the open or advertise it publicly almost everywhere.

[–]captaindestucto 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're arguing incels don't have an orientation like other men.

[–]lostwanderer28 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand the context but at the same time I don't like the whole "valuable" system.

There must be more. There must be something else, way superior that defines our actual value.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand the context but at the same time I don't like the whole "valuable" system.

Doesn't matter what we "like". Our value is determined by who finds us valuable.

[–]JollyFawn90 1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I get what you are trying to say, but I think it falsely shows that there isn’t a power indifference. I believe there is. Women have the power to determine who gets selected and who doesn’t. Couple that with a lot of women being ok with staying alone, it magnifies the power indifference even more.

An analogy would be like an employer. The employer has the pick of the litter to choose from. They can choose the perfect match for the company or choose less than ideal workers if they so choose. To make it worse, if that business could be run just by the employer alone, and they don’t need workers, it makes the power indifference even greater. While men on the other hand are the employee. They are the ones that have to search far and wide to get selected. And if they don’t get selected they will starve and die.

I think it’s pretty clear that women overall have the power in the dating market.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

The goal of an employer is to find employees who commit their life to them so profits, and employment forecasts can remain predictable. Yes, an employer can have their choice of emplyees, HOWEVER, if the employees dont choose to commit their life to that employer, then that employer is not valuable. That employer is NOT more valuable than the potential employees who were turned away.

[–]JollyFawn90 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think the employer or employee is inherently more valuable. But what I do think is that the employer has the power, because even if they don’t stay with someone for life, they can readily pick someone else to replace. Where the employee would have to go out and hope to be selected or else they will starve and die. The employer can choose to settle if they wanted to, where as the employee can not do the same.

I also don’t believe someone has to be committed for life in order to get value out of a relationship, though I know that’s the goal for many people.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

But what I do think is that the employer has the power, because even if they don’t stay with someone for life, they can readily pick someone else to replace.

An employee is free to leave at anytime as well. Imagine an employee leaving when the employer needs them the most.

[–]JollyFawn90 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yes. But women seem to be ok with just employing themselves, something men aren’t so good at. Ya They can also find a replacement a lot easier considering they get most of the applications. Most men need a job or they starve and die. It’s harder to find a job then it is to find a new employee. Kinda how I see it at least.

[–]IHateNormis 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is incorrect. Unmarried females can get married if they want to but it won’t be Chad, they are choosing not to get married. Incels cannot get anything. There is no equivalence

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Unmarried females can get married if they want to

Incels can sleep with prostitutes if they want to.

they are choosing not to get married.

Nope. No one is even proposing to them. Not even "incels" LOL

Incels cannot get anything.

They can but dont want to.

[–]hari_hbp 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The pursued and the pursuer will never be in the same boat.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Both are pursuing. Men pursuing sex. Women pursuing marriage. Incels and involunmarried women can't get what they want ;)

It's a rocky boat.

[–]hari_hbp 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a possibility only if women pursued the guys they want to marry and I'm sure they'd be able to get what they want. If they wait for a guy to approach them, well, there's a waiting period for that. I don't think this "involunmarried women" is a thing because a woman can get married anytime. They are actively rejecting men and that makes them "voluntarily unmarried" women.

Incels basically only have one path - pursuit and they fail in that. They want to and they are rejected. In the woman's case, it's "they want to and they reject"

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a possibility only if women pursued the guys they want to marry and I'm sure they'd be able to get what they want.

Women get pursued, which is the reason they always have dick at their disposal. The point is that the men they want to marry dont want to marry them, hence the reason they are involuntarily unmarried.

I don't think this "involunmarried women" is a thing because a woman can get married anytime.

An "incel" can have sex with a prostitute at anytime. You see, they are both the same.

They are actively rejecting men and that makes them "voluntarily unmarried" women.

Nope. If they aren't turning down proposals from men, they are indeed, involuntarily married women.

Incels Involuntarily Unmarried Women basically only have one path - pursuit (of marriage) and they fail in that.

ftfy

They want to and they are rejected.

Yes, Involuntarily Unmarried Women want to get married, and are rejected because no man asks them.

In the woman's case, it's "they want to and they reject"

Nope. They doont get proposed to so their is nothing to reject ;)

[–]infinitofluxo 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ugly women being able to find a man to fuck them is just a fact of life, as a guy being unattractive and becoming an incel is. Neither one did anything to deserve this reality. They can try to do things that might enable them to slip away from this, like finding the will to make themselves less unattractive by taking better care of their appearance, do surgeries, workout, etc.

Neither one deserve shaming for that, unless their attitude is delusional. They have to understand this reality and try to find a way out. You don't want to be treated like a cum dumpster, you admit these guys are better looking than you and you have to settle for an ugly dude like you. Now, escaping from inceldom is a much harder process because their self esteem couldn't be worse.

[–]JollyFawn90 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Underrated comment. This stigma around sex and using it as a way to be mean to people needs to go.

[–]revente 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So you're saying that someone who's dying of hunger and someone who wants a ribeye are in the same boat.

Not every desire is equal. Most of these women have access to sex, intimacy and relationships.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So you're saying that someone who's dying of hunger and someone who wants a ribeye are in the same boat.

I am saying that both want a ribeye and neither can get it. Or I am saying that both are dying from hunger. They are in the same boat.

Most of these women have access to sex, intimacy and relationships.

Yes, if a woman spreads her legs, many men will fuck her. And if she keeps her legs open, men will come back for a while. However, this doesn't mean they aren't in the same boat as "incels".

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

neither can get it

one is dying of hunger. the other gets something at least.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

one is dying of hunger. the other gets something at least.

Women get something to eat FROM MEN, per your analogy. So men can't dye from hunger if they are able to feed bitches.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

its not my analogy though i get the argument just not how it maps to reality

[–]mascoolinityRed AF 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

More like post wall women and incel in same boat.

I believe only young virgin will get marriage proposal no matter how other woman is amazing. Incel can least improve at something while women cant.Woman become more aware of their predicament but they still have to abide by the rules of dating, whereas men have many options for going their own way. Even making the best of a bad situation would be fine but men can do a lot more with a lot less, whereas women really don't have anything, after they hit the wall and are single.

[–]SmarmyPapsmears -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, however try telling that to incels or women who can't get relationships 😂

[–]Best_Illustrator_137 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Incels also hate women because they get no sex I don’t think women who can’t get married hate men, well not most of them anyhow.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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