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Convicted criminal offenders had more children than individuals never convicted of a criminal offense

December 23, 2022
12 upvotes

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Post Information
Title Convicted criminal offenders had more children than individuals never convicted of a criminal offense
Author Cartierwontevenpeek
Upvotes 12
Comments 73
Date December 23, 2022 6:30 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/convicted-criminal-offenders-had-more-children.1145956
https://theredarchive.com/post/1145956
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/ztp3ml/convicted_criminal_offenders_had_more_children/
Comments

[–]PuertoRock007 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I heard that if you ever visit someone in jail you'll see a bunch of pretty girls there crying over jail birds. But when I was in college I remember most of the guys were single and lonely.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Fit-Faithlessness149 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a really good article. It hints at one of the things that is often mentioned on manosphere forums. The more you embitter lonely men and rail against them for not having any success with finding a relationship the more you are radicalizing them. There is a tipping point where if this happens to enough men it can cause serious consequences to society and with women being some of the weakest members of society guess where much of that hostility will be aimed at?

[–]PuertoRock007 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a good point.

[–]PuertoRock007 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the problem is that females don't experience any consequences for their actions. They can go out act up and won't get arrested for it. So when a man is trying to avoid problems she just sees him as lame, weak and boring because she doesn't understand that he will go to jail and have his future ruined unlike her.

[–]NotARussianBot1984 4 points5 points  (60 children) | Copy Link

This is why I'm against welfare. Many times people are poor and near homeless due to choices they made. Maybe that guy choose to be a gangster to get laid more then his record prevents him from getting a good job.

Maybe that single mom with no child support was attracted to said thug and cries she can't get blood from a stone, when many normal decent men were interested before she got knocked up.

IDC if people make stupid choices. Just don't ask me to subsidize the stupidity at my expense! I could raise a family on the taxes I pay.

I tell my gf all the time, she says she likes I'm a decent man, but I say if all I cared about was pussy, I'd be an abusive drug dealer in a heartbeat.

But I prefer being a career man and using money to get what I want.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 4 points5 points  (51 children) | Copy Link

no amount of pussy is worth going to jail man

also unfortunately and this is the blackpill a lot of people can get screwed over for things they didnt choose or external circumstances. this is why i would want your single mom to have easy access to abortions so that the kid isnt forced to live a dog shit life due to her choices.

[–]NotARussianBot1984 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I always say I'm pro abortion, not pro choice. I think society should outright encourage abortions for certain situations such as future welfare cases

Or forced sterilization but apparently that breaks some Human rights??? Weird

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are pro abortion! First time in reddit I see man who is rp/wo or whatever supporting it.

[–]TsugaC 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You’re advocating for eugenics, then.

Do you realize what that means for violently angry young men who lash out on the internet? You are aware that incels have been flagged by the FBI as a risk to domestic peace and safety and message boards are being monitored. You want some of the men who post on black pill, braincel, and foreveralone to be sterilized just in case they might someday reproduce and spread their radical feelings to progeny?

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you realize what that means for violently angry young men who lash out on the internet? You are aware that incels have been flagged by the FBI as a risk to domestic peace and safety and message boards are being monitored.

this to me sounds like the fbi is desperate for a raise in funding

You want some of the men who post on black pill, braincel, and foreveralone to be sterilized just in case they might someday reproduce and spread their radical feelings to progeny?

this is where narb1984 and i part ways but im fairly sure a large segment of normies would probably want this

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

i part ways but im fairly sure a large segment of normies would probably want this

No one wants lonely men to be sterilized.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

never say never

but to be more serious here, a lot of normie women have this thing where if they don't want to get down to it with you, they basically... don't want you to get down with it with anybody.

[–]TsugaC 0 points1 point  (43 children) | Copy Link

The OP completely misunderstood the study he posted and probably didn’t read. Criminals don’t use birth control. That is exactly and only what the study says.

It says nothing about how appealing or attractive or sexy or fuckable criminals are. Nothing.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 0 points1 point  (42 children) | Copy Link

Criminal offenders also had more reproductive partners, were less often married, more likely to get remarried if ever married, and had more often contracted a sexually transmitted disease than non-offenders. Importantly, the increased reproductive success of criminals was explained by a fertility increase from having children with several different partners. We conclude that criminality appears to be adaptive in a contemporary industrialized country, and that this association can be explained by antisocial behavior being part of an adaptive alternative reproductive strategy.

page 4: More specifically, in a review of the literature Ellis and Walsh found that 50 out of 51 studies investigating associations between mating behavior and criminality reported a positive relationship between criminal behavior and number of sex partners (Ellis and Walsh 1997)

Rowe, for instance, argued that “crime results from an evolved behavioral strategy that maximizes mating effort and minimizes parenting effort.” (Rowe 1996). This idea rests on the fact that among mammals in general, males in contrast to females have substantial potential to increase their reproductive success by mating with multiple partners (Clutton-Brock 1991).

page 14:Third and finally, our findings showed that the increased reproductive success among criminal offenders compared to non-offenders is explained by more reproductive partners. Hence, on average, offenders have fewer children with each partner than non-offenders but raise their fertility beyond the general population average by having children with multiple partners. Stronger support, particularly in men, was suggested the more persistent the criminality pattern appeared to be.

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (41 children) | Copy Link

More specifically, in a review of the literature Ellis and Walsh found that 50 out of 51 studies investigating associations between mating behavior and criminality reported a positive relationship between criminal behavior and number of sex partners

Now find a study which demonstrates that criminals are popular instead of indiscriminate or rapey because of a lack of morals or because of substance abuse.

This idea rests on the fact that among mammals in general, males in contrast to females have substantial potential to increase their reproductive success by mating with multiple partners (Clutton-Brock 1991

Which other mammals practice birth control? Which other mammals enforce cultural, religious, and legal repercussions on extramarital sex?

Third and finally, our findings showed that the increased reproductive success among criminal offenders compared to non-offenders is explained by more reproductive partners.

No, it’s explained by a lack of birth control.

Nothing either of you have said proves that criminals are more popular with the opposite sex. Non-criminals would have the same rates if they didn’t feel a moral or financial obligation to restrict reproduction via birth control.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 0 points1 point  (40 children) | Copy Link

im copy pasting text from the study

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (39 children) | Copy Link

Good job. Now read the studies and determine the implications of the study.

Criminals don’t practice birth control, they are impulsive and unconcerned with repercussions of extramarital sex. They are also likely to abuse substances and consort with people who maintain similarly undisciplined lifestyles.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 0 points1 point  (38 children) | Copy Link

i agree

the fact they have no boundaries also tends to attract more partners than being a straitlaced hank hill though those will be quite... different from the rest. very thinly related but when i read "No Longer Human" (1948) i felt a bit disappointed but not surprised that the protag who was going in with the wrong crowd and spending all his shit on booze and prostitutes eventually started an affair with another dude's wife (partly because nonce teacher once wanted to do it with me and i had to start sitting at the rear of the classroom to get away from her, also because i wanted to project my mstow condition onto him), i imagine that's the sort of partner you draw in from that lifestyle.

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (37 children) | Copy Link

They are also likely to abuse substances and consort with people who maintain similarly undisciplined lifestyles.

As I said in the post you just responded to.

Problem with OP and your “studies” which merely support the obvious fact that shitty people don’t care how many children they bring into the world, is that you are both guilty of forming and opinion and scrounging around for science to support your opinion. Except you don’t actually utilize the science, you just throw down a study which is vaguely related but which does not, in any way, support your claim.

 

“Women prefer having sex to thugs and meanies” isn’t supported by your studies. This is what all of your collected “studies” say:

 

Shitty people have more children with other shitty people

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 1 point2 points  (36 children) | Copy Link

well, what i say is more along the lines of "the venn diagrams of jailbirds and incels dont overlap"

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

No welfare means Fallout without nukes.

[–]NotARussianBot1984 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Most countries in the world have little to no welfare

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

And they're all shitholes. First world countries have a social safety net.

[–]NotARussianBot1984 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Personally I think it's just due to when a country is richer, women just vote themselves men's money, but poor countries can't (or fail as states).

But there is compromises, like no extra welfare.for having kids, or losing welfare for reproducing.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you think those poor countries that can't support women voting for men's money then why don't you live there? I'll tell you why, because they're violent as fuck and you don't want any of that.

[–]NotARussianBot1984 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I plan to, but retire there, poor countries don't let you work there

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You plan to get robbed and killed there by the violent af locals?

[–]TsugaC 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Surely you understand that 1/3 or more of the planet is actually (in your terms) stupid. Most impoverished people aren’t intelligent and most suffer generational poverty and generational trauma on top of their less-than-average intelligence.

You are, essentially, telling adults to recreate several generations of their families, magically avoid illness, foster care and group homes, make yourself and your parents more intelligent so that school makes sense, magically imbue your ancestors with a sense of morality and purpose, and magically accumulate generational wealth so you have a head start in life like your middle class counterparts”

[–]Rook_Cross 0 points1 point  (77 children) | Copy Link

People with lower impulse control and more willing to take risk have more kids, and you're surprised? Quantity over quality. Do you think those kids turn out as well as their peers with non-felon parents? Some people are fast life strategy and some aren't. It's pathetic for unsuccessful fast or slow life history strategy people to envy convicts. Just more evidence why that person is a failure, being unable to understand what's going on and wasting time feeling bad they're not the convict.

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 2 points3 points  (74 children) | Copy Link

So you are saying a kissless virgin who is alone and is told by females that he is alone due to his bad personality despite never doing anything or violent cannot feel envious about something with an objectively bad personality slaying?

[–]SmurfESmurferson 1 point2 points  (57 children) | Copy Link

Not the person you asked, but I think it’s fair for the kissless virgin to feel envious. And angry, honestly - I’d be concerned if he didn’t feel that way

My objection isn’t his very understandable feelings. It’s that they don’t see the bigger picture

The lesson the kissless virgins almost always seem to take away is “chicks love violent assholes.” And that’s … not it. They’re not seeing the forest for the trees

What women (obligatory “some women,” but yeah. Let’s be honest - it’s the majority of women) are attracted to is the live-in-the-moment, mercurial personality types these guys have. The personality that has them unbelievably charming one minute, then breaking the law the next

(The kissless virgins are also guilty of solipsism - they experience these men as bullies and assholes, so they assume women experience that as well. Except … we don’t. These guys are skilled at creating intimacy and tenderness with their women)

The criminality, like their success with women, is a side effect of that personality type. It’s not the criminality itself

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 1 point2 points  (55 children) | Copy Link

I disagree, that is just an excuse females use to be attracted to assholes. I have read a lot of stories of females losing attraction if they see their boyfriends losing a fight. They are attracted to violence and criminality.

That is not to say that a kissless virgin doing crime would get a gf, it would help but it is not guaranteed to work. You need the baseline looks for being an asshole to attract females.

It is unfortunate that females are attracted to violent criminals, I think the world would be more peaceful if that wasn’t the case

[–]SmurfESmurferson 1 point2 points  (32 children) | Copy Link

Again, you’re conflating a man being emasculated by another guy in front of his gf with the violence itself

You’re confusing the issue

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (31 children) | Copy Link

I’m not conflating the issue, she would be then attracted to the guy who won the fight. That is why in high school it is often the bully getting all the girls, despite the bully being a terrible person.

[–]SmurfESmurferson 1 point2 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

And the bully is not violent towards the girls (at least not initially, in the minority cases of actual abusers)

This is about a more masculine man emasculating their man, then being charming to the girl who is trying to manage her disgust at her man’s public emasculation

If you’re out with your 6/10 gf, and you’re feeling a bit bored when a 9/10 chick comes in and is flirty with you?

It’s not about how bitchy she was to your gf, it’s about the fact that she was more feminine, more sexy, and made your (now ex-) gf look like a thumb in comparison

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy -1 points0 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

The point is that they are attracted to violent assholes because they are violent assholes. It’s not because they are “charming” or other bullshit.

Your example is different because the 9/10 female was not being violent or something else that society has deemed unacceptable. You cannot project females being attracted to the abhorrent on men

[–]SmurfESmurferson 1 point2 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

Women aren’t violent like men, but we absolutely have our own “language” for hostilities and whatever intra-gender confrontations

You’re proving my point - the conflict and how it’s handled doesn’t matter. The more attractive person is more attractive, and made that much more attractive when they make your partner look less-than

It’s not the violence any more than it’s the mean girl behavior. Beautiful, sexy women can be absolute insufferable cunts, and they have no problem getting men

I’m absolutely flabbergasted that you guys can’t see that women operate the same way. It’s not the behavior - they’re attractive despite the behavior

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy -1 points0 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

I only used the fight as an example. Females are attracted to violence and guys being assholes in other different ways. It’s so hypocritical when they tell a kissless virgin he is alone due to his personality. I’ve seen females who were abused who have the gall to say this.

Beautiful females can get men but being insufferable is a negative, they get men despite that not because of it. For females it is the opposite, being a violent asshole helps for attracting a female.

[–][deleted]  (21 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t say anything about popular men. I am talking about assholes. Females like assholes and look for all sorts of excuses to justify it.

[–][deleted]  (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Females create incels through liking assholes and gaslighting

[–][deleted]  (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

Incels are created due to rejection from females. If one has sex and girlfriends he is not incel. Wanting something is not being entitled to something. Females saying incels are entitled to sex is them projecting their own sense of entitlement

[–]hutavan 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

No, we frame popular assholes as assholes. A lot of men who are abusive to low-tier men are well-liked and popular with women. Those kinds of popular men we label as assholes. There are also well-liked, popular men who are friendly towards low-tier men. Those kinds of popular men we don't labels as assholes.

I'm assuming the reason you see all popular men as friendly and approachable is partly because of halo effect and partly because you don't care to see how some of them treat low-value men.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]hutavan 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps not asshole towards you lol

People who act like assholes (in this example physically assault others) will always be assholes no matter how popular they are or how bright their halo is.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]hutavan 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ofc you'd think that. My explanation of why you think like that fits perfectly and is supported by research.

[–]TsugaC 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every man in this thread read “reproductive success” as slaying pussy and none read the study.

What women (obligatory “some women,” but yeah. Let’s be honest - it’s the majority of women) are attracted to is the live-in-the-moment, mercurial personality types these guys have. The personality that has them unbelievably charming one minute, then breaking the law the next

Women aren’t attracted to criminals, criminals are attracted to criminals and assuming the men in APD are law abiding citizens, the men in this study lie outside the realm of experience and outside of your repspective social spheres. None of you will ever be rejected by women who prefer your mythical archetype “the sexy thug” nor will any of you find yourself competing with a woman for the sexy thug’s attention.

 

The criminality, like their success with women, is a side effect of that personality type.

A little closer to the truth than your previous statement, but still light years away from reality. Sexual success is more likely to happen for men and women who are bolder and more forward. To those who are at ease in their own skin and those who enjoy the process of getting to know the opposite sex, flirting, and making moves. This doesn’t require thuggish, antisocial behavior. Thuggish, anti-social behavior isn’t involved at all; the complete opposite is true.

 

Men (and women) who are popular and sexually appealing are charismatic and likable. Most are skating through school, career, and their social spheres on easy mode. They aren’t robbing banks.

[–][deleted]  (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

They are slaying in comparison to a kissless virgin who is told he is alone because he has a terrible personality.

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

They are still having sex, they have bad personalities. A kissless virgin male is told he is alone because he has a bad personality. Kissless virgin males has a right to be angry

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Angry at themselves for failing to relate to others?

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Angry at the gaslighting about the “personality” meme and being lied to

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

And you feel that lashing out and filling the empty space in your heart with hate is the answer to the lack of a social sphere and romance?

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Why is everything meant to be an answer to a lack of romance? Not everything is about sex

[–]puririnpa 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i'm not saying females care about morally good character but

this study is flawed because criminals have more children for the same reason some muslimcel who lost his virginty to some muslim betabuxx foid at 28 than a swede who lost his virginity at 15 and +20 bodycount at 28

abortion is behind a lot of dysgenic trends, rather than women.

[–]EnteFetz 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Problem is that the next generation will have more of his offspring and the problem gets bigger every generation. This is how civilisations collapse

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

thank god were not the convicts at least until they build a toxic male reeducation camp and haul us there for disagreeing with feminism

[–][deleted]  (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–]puririnpa 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

it's basically the same reason why an afghan who lost his virginity at 28 has more kids than an american who lost his virginity at 15 and has +20 bodycounts at 28

i think abortion is behind a lot of dysgenic trends, rather than women themselves.

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Birth control isn't abortion. Medical or barrier birth control prevents ovulation or prevents implantation. Religious people in the US frequently use the rhythm method to avoid pregnancy.

 

Criminals and thugs do nothing or very little to avoid creating children. They have more children, but nothing in OP's study testifies to the amount of sex criminals have. Financially stable, ethical people may very well be having far more sex than criminals, but they take steps to avoid bearing more children than they can afford or can comfortably care for.

 

People with no background in science or statistics seem to believe they can throw a link behind their opinion and others will nod in agreement. Those people often misunderstand terminology or simply don't bother to read the study. Like OP, who reads "reproductive success" as "getting far more pussy than Nice Guys".

[–]puririnpa 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

abortion, birth control, whatever you name with, whatever allows someone to have less children at 30 bodycounts than some muslim with 1 bodycount is what is behind dysgenics, women are still eugneic to some extent otherwise.

i don't think moral character, nor toxicity is something females consciously choose at all though, this is why both the bad boy serial killer type, and cute kpop star or justin bieber type has fans worhispping them.

[–]Perfect-Complaint831 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Its you that has to perform mental gymnastics in the possibility that “financially stable” people might be having more sex, despite the claim of the study.

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Jesus Christ.

Zero conclusions about how much sex criminals or preachers might be having can be determined from a study showing that bad guys make more children.

I don’t believe for a minute this many men here misunderstand how to read this incredibly simple scientific paper.

[–]Perfect-Complaint831 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Sex makes babies

Criminals have more babies than non criminals

Criminals have more sex than non criminals

Again, its you who has to do further gymnastics to justify why this isnt the case

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

Quote the part of the study which indicates that criminals are having more sex than people who practice birth control or who have been sterilized. Show us the part of the study which indicates the frequency of sex.

[–]Perfect-Complaint831 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What about the part where criminals are using birth control vs non criminals who arent? You see where this is going right? Your bias and assumptions have painted criminals as one monolithic group but non criminals are a diverse bunch, its ironic. The study was conducted normally, criminal vs non criminal

[–]TsugaC1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Neither birth control nor the frequency of sex are mentioned at all. For all any home-schooled anti-science reader knows, the criminals have had sex precisely the number of children they have.

[–]Perfect-Complaint831 -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, stats can be misleading and extra context is usually needed if you want to interpret them properly, still, criminals be fuckin

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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