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Is there anything more to relationships other than physical attraction?

MasonSub4
August 23, 2022
9 upvotes
/r/AllPillDebate

As a blackpiller the idea of romantic love is completely lost on me. To me it seems like the only people who are in "loving" relationships are either very attractive or the attractive one in the relationship is "loved" more.

To me when a woman or attractive guy complains about being lonely or only liked for there body, I feel like "yeah that's all it is, what more do you expect?". As someone who was never in a relationship I almost feel like the idea of love or loyalty is completely washed away. The only thing that matters is how hot you are.

But this is my view. Any thoughts or counter thoughts?

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Post Information
Title Is there anything more to relationships other than physical attraction?
Author MasonSub4
Upvotes 9
Comments 48
Date August 23, 2022 8:06 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/is-there-anything-more-to-relationships-other-than.1139644
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139644
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/wvymkk/is_there_anything_more_to_relationships_other/
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Comments

[–]Siukslinis_acc 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think the main thing is companionship. You become a team of 2 people who care about each other.

[–]MasonSub4BlackPill[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The way I see it is, only attractive people are loved, in a relationship where one is way more attractive than the other it seems like the ugly one isn't cared about but the hot one is.
If both are attracive, then that's the closest thing to "love" there is.

[–]TheRedPillRipperRedPill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the ugly one isn’t cared about

Here’s an exception; one of my old mentors has a wife. She suffers from M.S. Which drove her to alcoholism. All the advice he’s been given(bar mine because I respect him too much to give it) is to have her put in a palliative care home. Or at least have some carers come in and help. He’s refused all help. Is her sole carer, and has been for a decade now.

That’s not just the exception; that’s exceptional. It’s a quality I greatly admire, and one I aspire to.

As the adage goes; love is fleeting. Who you are as a person however? You face in the mirror, everyday.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]Peacesquad 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s a transaction to be honest

[–]resultsmatter1 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There’s tons more to relationships than physically attraction but physical attraction is the single determinant of what gets you through the door

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Which ultimately makes it the most important. It not might be the biggest slice of the pie in the chart, but without it, the rest will never come.

[–]resultsmatter1 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yep, not sure why this is a controversial take around the internets

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They don’t like admitting shallowness. It reminds me of that SpongeBob meme with Patrick and the wallet:

If you ask normies/bluepillers what’s a good way improve your chances with the ladies, they’ll respond with “take a shower; get a personality; work out”, or something along those lines. Essentially admitting that you should change yourself to fit an attractive mold.

If you manage to become successful in that regard and say most of the success came after you lost weight and replaced it with muscle, they will say it was actually because of your newfound confidence, and not the change in musculature. Your cheeks becoming hollow and jawline becoming visible has nothing to do with it.

They simply cannot admit people are shallow, but it’s even more so do with not wanting to paint women in a negative light. If a woman loses a significant amount of weight, she will automatically be attractive in the eyes of most men (irrespective of her height, skin color, or any other immutable traits). If she mentions this to other women and men, she will be met with responses reaffirming that men are shallow; always have and always will be. No mention of her newfound confidence, as expected.

[–]BoogersAndSugar 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The awful truth is that, barring very rare exceptions to the rule, only good looking guys can get a woman who is legitimately into him in a romantic sense. We've been sold a myth that romantic love is a realistic expectation for everybody, but it isn't. 90% of plain looking guys' relationships and marriages are transactional arrangements masquerading as romantic love. Her "attraction" to him is only economic, but she will never admit this to him, and often times, not even to herself.

[–]smallstarseeker 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly this!

We had been sold the idea that romantic love is a realistic expectation for everybody.

[–]decoy88A Black Dude♂️ 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s a lot easier to imagine if you already have loved ones in your life.

Close friends, siblings, parents. Do you love them? If you experience that, it’s not too different.

[–]mugiwaranogoofy 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes there is more to it than physical attraction. You have to invest and build the relationship for there to be “more” though. It doesn’t just happen. It’s the companionship, the knowing you have a life-long best friend you want to do everything with and anything for. It’s the reassuring comfort knowing what you have with your person is forever. You have found your home.

Physical attraction, in my opinion, will only get your foot in the door. You’ve got to be incredibly dim if you’re content with looks alone. But that’s just me. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

But without physical attraction none of that ever gets to come into play. People keep missing that part, which is why everyone's obsessed with the element that just gets you in the door which is the hardest part.

[–]mugiwaranogoofy1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

If I’m understanding correctly, you’re of the belief that none of the latter stuff really matters if you can’t even get your foot in the door? This ultimately means that what really only matters is physical attraction?

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If she doesn't find you physically attractive and you're good in every other way then you will stay in Let's Just Be Friends land. If you do get in the door despite this and establish a relationship, and that does happen, the next problem is that it is 100% going to go poorly.

If she does find you attractive and you turn out to be a boor, etc., you are unlikely to get past the door.

Yeah it sucks but humans are defective like this and there's no way of fixing it outside of transhumanism.

[–]mugiwaranogoofy1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

If she doesn't find you physically attractive and you're good in every other way then you will stay in Let's Just Be Friends land. If you do get in the door despite this and establish a relationship, and that does happen, the next problem is that it is 100% going to go poorly.

Sure, I agree to an extent. You're a friend for life or get settled for once they start to feel like "time is running out," and they need to secure something - anything - to ward off the feeling and reality of being alone. So they pick the "safest" option. To me, being settled for is a far worse fate than being alone. The knowledge that even at your best, you weren't good enough to be considered a valid first choice. Just good enough to be a safe backup that might not be given the same treatment or affection as a "first choice" candidate.

However, there is the slim possibility that things do work out in the end. Call it optimism, call it cope, call it whatever you want. Maturity and wisdom come with time and experience. Some people do grow out of their shallowness, although I think it requires great awareness and reflection.

​

If she does find you attractive and you turn out to be a boor, etc., you are unlikely to get past the door.

That's just dating, non? If anything, it proves that physical attraction isn't everything. They couldn't tolerate you long enough for any of the more meaningful stuff to happen.

​

Yeah it sucks but humans are defective like this and there's no way of fixing it outside of transhumanism.

I agree. Human nature and reality are very ugly.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

However, there is the slim possibility that things do work out in the end. Call it optimism, call it cope, call it whatever you want. Maturity and wisdom come with time and experience. Some people do grow out of their shallowness, although I think it requires great awareness and reflection.

Anything is possible but some things are very highly unlikely.

[–]OldSimpsonsisbetter 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My parents seem to really like each other as people. Like they're great friends with each other and rely on each other a lot.

Maybe that's what relationships are about?

[–]MasonSub4BlackPill[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My point is that only attractive people seem to get this "love" treatment

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am also not believer of romance. I believe dream romance only exist for women in 18-28 and man of any age.

But some get into relationship for emotional support or to start a family.

[–]hdksndiisn 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There’s a reason mankind has been attempting to communicate about love since the dawn of language. Once you’ve experienced it you understand Shakespeare a little better.

The best way I can describe it is this: you feel like, for the very first time, you’ve arrived home. The world is suddenly your home, and the person you love is why this home exists, because you and her are meant to live in it. You feel like anything and everything is going to be ok, as long as you’re with that person. Rather than post-nut clarity it’s 100% “clarity” all the time - being the illusion that your object of affection is uniquely meant to be yours. You feel like you have purpose. You feel like you are someone else’s purpose. Initially all you want to do is fuck. Sometimes the longer you’re with them the more you want to fuck. Your body wants to seed your dna in their body. Eventually it turns into a mature agreement of sorts - which is where it usually ends - the sparks have worn off and reality sets in, one or the other or both notices flaws, one or the other or both accepts or rejects these flaws. Then when the one that’s got more options leaves or cheats or the partner simply dies or any other number or wonderful reasons relationships end you feel like someone has killed you, and your future, and everything you believed in. In fact you don’t really realize how in love you were, or what exactly love was, until it’s swept from under your feet.

Love is like a virus or a parasite that takes control of the host so much so that the host cannot survive without it.

Some may say in the end it’s better to live a good life and not have loved and been loved than to have loved and been loved and lost it. Cause you’re not guaranteed to find it again.

[–]EulenWatcher1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

You should take a break from pill content for a while, as it clearly affects greatly your worldview to the point where you can't look outside of it.

To me there are several "ingredients" to happy long-term romantic relationship - there's love, companionship and partnership. Physical attraction is important, but it isn't the only thing needed, as you can be attracted but not be in love nor be friends or partners.

[–]Bdog5k 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like it’s necessary but insufficient.

So, they need to be attractive and likable. But just being likable isn’t enough. Same difference.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW // أشهد أن لا حبة إلا الحبة السوداء 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

absolutely, but physical attraction is necessary to even think of everything else. romantic love looks different on a mri from family love.

[–]litgas 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No the only thing about relationships is physical attraction.

[–]Antisocial_NihilistRedPill 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe there is more to it, but not much.

Your looks are the determining factor which gets you through the door. But its then, and only then; do things like your personality, social status, and wealth really come into play (in terms of romance, not platonically).

If a relationship is a house, your looks are the concrete foundation and support structure of it. Everything else is furnishing and detailing. If you lack the foundation and support structure, then all else is moot.

[–]MasonSub4BlackPill[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like this analogy

[–]MarBitt 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Let's say you're a physically attractive man with an IQ below 70. Do you think that's enough for women in general to want a relationship or marriage with you?

Obviously there's more than just physical attraction.

[–]PaliantBlackPill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is the foundation to intimate relationships. Meaning everything else that matters in a relationship comes second. Anyone telling you otherwise is probably delusional or was unfortunately born quite unattractive, or some combination of both.

[–]gilamonster69 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, in the context of a heterosexual individual it is to find and date someone with the intention of starting a family down the road, a family that down the road will produce functioning members of society and the cycle continues. Remember in the end we are still cavemen/cavewomen. The romance has been played up by Hollywood to the detriment of our societies. It had turned men into sissies and soy boys short of a pair.

[–]IHateNormis 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Personally I don’t think there is anything more than physical attraction. Love does not exist

[–]Environmental_Lie561WhitePill -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not true, I’m a very attractive and smart woman. I have had partners that are not attractive, they ended up treating me the worst. I loved them. The attractive partners treated me better.

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure. Physical attraction can start it, but if I'm talking to a really hot person, and they are dumb as a brick, it's not happening. I'm I'm talking to an eh guy and he's really smart? Panty dropper.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (13 children) | Copy Link

You don't know what love is.

[–]Bdog5k 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Literally just came from a neckbeardthings post about this.

Half of them called him corny, half were like “duh”. Do you have a concrete response?

.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I do.

True love is by definition, the act of bringing out the best in someone or something.

Then you might say, what is the best? How do you know what's best?

What's best for someone may seem individualistic or subjective, but the best possible outcome to your life does exist, as an abstract possibility. You can call it an ideal.

What's the ideal you? How can one determine that? Well, first, you can remove all the things you know to be a detriment. Maybe it's laziness. Maybe it's your anger. Maybe it's your addiction.

Ok, that was straight forward. Then you ask, what would be good for me? Maybe a person you can trust. Maybe a family that loves you back. Maybe a career that fills you with meaning and purpose.

Then take that ideal you, which could be ill defined, and maybe not 100% accurate, and you aim towards it.

Whatever or whoever encourages the best in you to come forth into reality is that which loves you. And if you do that for others, you love them.

[–]Bdog5k 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Where did you even get that definition?

It's actually hard to break you down, because you are essentially listing off my " idealistic" worldview, but it seems like just that.... an ideal.

There are a lot of factors out of your control. You can do everything right and still lose. Hopefully not, but the alternative is death and that's a one time decision so you got to be sure. I think you owe yourself to do everything in your power to make things better despite the odds.

I like everything you are saying, but idk if that's love. In addition, I think way less people are actually in "love" then what people think. Plenty of people are horny and attached, not many have a sense of love that feels a bit spiritual. But I like what you are saying, its the take I have with relationships. I have a dream girl that I stick to, and I imagine who she would be with. My life is about building myself into that better person.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

What's there to be unsure of? The ideal you exist regardless if you believe it or not. And who are we to know what the ideal is? We aren't gods. We're bounded by what we know and what we don't know. We can only make an approximate guess what the ideal is.

But that's the beauty of it. As you pursue love, the world will love you back. And it will tell you what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. If your heart is open, you can see it. Your ideal will no doubt change as you're on your pursuit. And the only way to figure out what the ideal is, is to actively engage yourself in it.

And fear of death should not be a reason to not pursue love. And fear of failure should not be a reason to not pursue love. Because there's no promise that the pursuit of love guarantee success. But not pursuing love will guarantee defeat. So that's what having faith means. You have faith in something will work without proof that it will. And you do it because you don't have anything better to do in life.

And trust me. Love is the bettering of yourself. When you see yourself moving in a positive direction, you may not know where it's leading, but you know for certain, that you are loved. Being with people who bring out the best in you, is being with people who love you.

People say all the time. "You should love yourself 1st." They say it because it's an obvious thing to say, but most people have no clue what it means. What they are saying, unknowingly, is that you should pursue the ideal you, and bring forth the best you have to offer to the world, in benefit to you, your family and your society.

Edit: also to answer your 1st question. I made the definition through observation.

[–]Bdog5k 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

What are you referring to about uncertainty?

If someone doesn't have a defined ideal, there is no ideal. It's not some permanent malleable abstract thing, its an idea somebody has. I have NO clue where you got that idea. The closest thing we have to gods is the ones we make.

I'm not saying death or failure are reasons to pursue love. I'm saying if life is purposeless one might consider killing themselves. But if someone resolves to improve their life, a happy ending still isn't guaranteed.

It seems you align almost parallel with me. Having faith is important, otherwise I think it would make sense to quit, and quitting is death. But for the same reason I'm not religious, you can analyze the situation and make rough calculations of your odds. Faith determines whether you keep going despite that.

I don't "trust" you. I don't take that definition. I also don't think love inherently has to be turned towards yourself. I also doubt that the sentiment of loving yourself first always means self improvement. That's a stretch to pull things together.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I never seen it worked any other way. I've seen many people claiming to love themselves and destroy their own lives. By definition, the person doesn't love themself. If your life is on a downward path, by definition, you hate yourself.

The ideal exist. Regardless if you know it or not. If you accept the idea of parallel universe, then it's basically that. That there's is a possible version of you that is the best. The question whether you can define it or not is irrelavant to the existence of that possibility. You can approximate it no doubt, but God only knows what the true ideal is.

You keep coming back to the fact that there's no guarantee. I agree, there's no guarantee of success. I never claimed that there's a guarantee for success. All I said, is that failure is guarantee if you don't try. And that trying is a leap of faith.

[–]Bdog5k 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

They could be in love with themselves, taking care of yourself can come from a place of responsibility and duty. Narcissus's self love destroyed him, or some people might destroy themselves in the name of love. It doesn't necessarily mean taking care of yourself in that way.

This is neither true and hardly makes sense. The way you describe it also means it has no utility whatsoever. What good is an ideal that can't be defined or known? In the end you do what I say practically, you make your own. This isn't even Religon anymore, parallel universe? I use this idea hypothetically to help imagine what to do. Taking this literally is silly.

I didn't say you did either. I merely stated it.

This is just goofy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

The analogy serves to only explain the idea. Let's not dismiss the idea itself.

I already went through the thought experiment with you about ideal in the 1st comment. I'm on a phone so I can't quote it.

But you keep harping on the fact that we can't produce an ideal concretely. We can make a good approximate. Maybe it's not lying. Maybe it's not being so clueless. Maybe it's being more aware. Maybe it's being physically stronger. Maybe it's being smarter. Maybe it's being a good man. Maybe it's being a good husband. Maybe it's being a good father. Maybe it's having a proper relationship with you dad. Maybe it means being able to communicate with your dad without getting frustrated.

You can break it down any number of way. And it can all be up to how you want to determine it. And you can even use the parameters that you know are certain. Whatever you want.

And using that approximate ideal, it in itself serves a purpose. This goes into a whole nother topic, but your goals in life filters your perception of reality. Your being too dismissive of the power that a goal has on the human mind. It doesn't matter if the ideal is perfect or not. If it's good enough, your pursuit towards it will benefit you.

Calling it foolish because it can't be define is the foolish act. Pretending it's not real because you can't define it is also foolish. How many things have we as humans discovered. Did those things not exist before the discovery? Just because you haven't discovered what the ideal is yet, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[–]Bdog5k 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

What do you mean don't dismiss the idea? That's the whole point. Mine isn't too dissimilar. You just have weird extra details based on parallel universes.

I'm starting to think you are dumb. Idk if you read anything I said. I'm not dismissing the importance of the ideal. I said you can make it whatever you want. You insist on the ideal being " there" and you find it. My point is this is based in nothing. But creating your own ideal and pursuing it gives all the utility you mention and more.

But you keep harping on the fact that we can't produce an ideal concretely. We can make a good approximate. Maybe it's not lying. Maybe it's not being so clueless. Maybe it's being more aware. Maybe it's being physically stronger. Maybe it's being smarter. Maybe it's being a good man. Maybe it's being a good husband. Maybe it's being a good father. Maybe it's having a proper relationship with you dad. Maybe it means being able to communicate with your dad without getting frustrated.You can break it down any number of way. And it can all be up to how you want to determine it. And you can even use the parameters that you know are certain. Whatever you want.

you actually had it for a second. Just turn that first sentence in to, " it can be whatever you want".

I promise you, no one will ever discover a definite abstract. That's like saying someone will make a perfect art piece.

[–]Bdog5k 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean I dream daily of having a true love “ soul mate” mate type thing.

But when it comes down to it, it’s just fluff. No way this shit is real. No coincidence I like the prettiest, sweetest girl I can find. Now I have to work as hard as possible to be Superman. Why? To be more attractive…

Ain’t nobody falling in love with uglies. People will bring up personality, but that’s because looks and personality are BOTH necessary but insufficient.

.

[–]StephJ___1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Nope - and the traditional family that supposedly has it all together (or atleast from the wives standpoint on social media, bragging about having the perfect granddaughter, etc) has a husband eye-fucking you at gatherings. 😂 Theres two sides to the coin.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

husband eye-fucking you at gatherings.

I have seen that too.Then I wonder should man really marry as it seems to be designed for women.I also don't trust when women keep bragging about her so called happy family

[–]BurnaAccount1227 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Physical attraction opens the door to something more. Now, in some cases, personality and such can help someone seem more attractive to a certain person(and assuming they weren't completely put off initially), but still, no relationship lasts without physical attraction.

Looking at older couples or the few stable relationships I've seen around me, eventually a deeper connection forms and love comes out of that. It takes time to get to that point but it's possible.. But again, physical attraction is still present. Maybe at some point as libido goes down, due to age, physical attraction becomes less important, but outside of that, I think there is more to relationships than purely physical attraction..but you can't have a relationship without it.

[–]catniagara 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have never had trouble finding someone to date, but I do have health issues. When I tell someone I have these issues, a lot of people say it’s all in my head, or they know someone else with my condition who is a doctor lawyer business exec sex goddess or whatever.

I can’t do that to you. I can’t tell you romantic love exists and pontificate on how beautiful and wonderful it is because you’ve put these walls up to protect yourself.

It’s the same method I use to deal with my allergies. I love chocolate cake. I can’t eat chocolate cake. Therefore chocolate cake doesn’t exist and I would hate it if it did!!!

Lonely people sometimes see others as objects or NPCs because they don’t interact with them. They’re forced to always observe instead of interacting. Because they haven’t had the option to interact, they make up stories about people.

Maybe this is the case for you?

There are tons of people in happy. relationships

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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