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q4w: Why does it appear that Western women dont want to start families? Do they prefer just to be on the cc indefinitely?

October 2, 2022
9 upvotes

Women in the west seem to be so focused on not needing men that they dont really care about starting a family. Most Western women dont even strive to be with one man for the rest of their lives, let alone starting a family. Doesnt that mean western women will continue jumping from man to man indefinitely? They jump in and out of "ltr's" adding more bodies, and getting older, and not starting a family or even desiring to.. What will happen when western women no longer attract the men they desire? Will they be content alone with cats?

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Post Information
Title q4w: Why does it appear that Western women dont want to start families? Do they prefer just to be on the cc indefinitely?
Author _Duriel_1000_
Upvotes 9
Comments 55
Date October 2, 2022 2:04 AM UTC (2 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/q4w-why-does-it-appear-that-western-women-dont.1139548
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139548
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/xtcn4s/q4w_why_does_it_appear_that_western_women_dont/
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Comments

[–]FightMeCthullu 9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

As a woman who doesn’t want children or like a ‘family’ in the traditional sense, here’s why in order:

I knew from the age of 12 I didn’t want to have kids. At all. Don’t get me wrong I love children (fucking funny little things that they are) but I could never see myself with my own. I never knew why but now that I’m 25 I can put words to it in a way I never could before.

  1. Babies and kids are a fuckton of work. I never could imagine how much work until I helped looked after my niece who is under 1 year old. I always knew babies were constant but hell in a hand basket that constant being NEEDED was exhausting. If I wasn’t playing with her I was feeding her, if I was t feeding her I was changing her, if I wasn’t changing her I was trying to get her to sleep. And while she slept I tried to clean up the hurricane left in her adorable wake. I was almost driven nuts after as single week. I had no time to just sit and think if it wasn’t about her. And I’m not cut out for that.

As a child I sort of knew babies were a lot of effort but as an adult who recently cared for one, I know I’d be out of my depth and unable to cope.

2: family history of mental illnesses. Self explanatory. But for a more clear explanation - I was 5 when I started seriously imagining dying and how much happier I’d be if I was gone. 5. I felt that way most days until I was 23 or so and got a handle on how to care for my brain. I can’t imagine passing that down. The chance would be small but it would be there.

Also I have ADHD so like….possibly going off my meds for ages? Not great. Not at all.

3: practical reasons - money. It’s 50/50 if I’ll ever own a house so if I’m that uncertain about supporting myself how could I support a child? Props to people who can make it work but I know I couldn’t.

4: loss of identity. I’ve seen too many women cease being anything but a mother after the kids are born and I can’t do that.

5: health reasons in general - gestational diabetes, pre eclampsia, varicose veins, aches and pains….like that’s before the kid gets there. Those are all possibilities because they run in my family. Fuck that.

6: vanity reasons - my body will change and I don’t want it to I like how I am right now and it took a long time to get to that point.

Any 1 of those reasons is a fine one to not start a family. Health, career aspirations, mental health, money….most younger people do not have secure housing or a guarantee of the money you’d need to raise a child. It’s expensive and hard and a huge time sink and draining.

If it’s not an excited ‘yes’ to kids it should be a ‘no’. Children don’t ask to be born and if we bring them here we should be excited and we should love them. I know I would struggle as a mother so discounting everything I just said that’s why I don’t want to be one.

Women get more options these days and I’m not surprised many are choosing to not put themselves in a position they know they’d hate.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

These are all valid points I respect not your traditional I hate kids. You don't need to hate kids to not want them. But I do think society could do more to make it easier to raise kids without loosing your identity

[–]FightMeCthullu 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh 100%! My dad, after i looked after my niece, asked me if I finally understood the phrase ‘it takes a village’. I don’t know how people don’t raise kids in groups.

Honestly governments need to provide free parenting classes beforehand, childcare, better access to healthcare (including mental health for the mothers especially) and that would make the burden smaller…..but even then….

Like, babies see their mothers as an extension of themselves for the first 4-6months? (I might have that wrong it could be 8). But society sees mothers as an extension of their babies pretty much until the baby is grown. That needs to change too.

Of ‘being a mother’ can just be something women do, the same as they can ‘be a doctor’ or ‘be a secretary’, if it’s something that’s part of them but not all of them….it’d be easier. Some women are ok with ‘being a mother’ but its suffocating to others and they want to exist beyond that.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

these are all good reasons not to be a parent hell even i would recommend you not to have a kid given all these points you listed

[–]FightMeCthullu 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know right I’d be terrible.

I’d be a terrible parent but I’m gonna be a fantastic aunt I’ve decided.

[–]Liberated_Asexual 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would you have to go off ADHD meds?

[–]PMmeareasontolive 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because that's what being free to do what you want looks like.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 5 points6 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

yes but women are never alone

[–]brightglowup1 points [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Millions of women are extremely alone. You just dont give af if those women live or die because they are not your taste.

Male "loneliness" is a decision because you can always buy your way out in a way true lonely women cannot .and this is why Ill never take the whining seriously.

[–]FastBananaViral -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No they are not alone, all females were young and attractive at one point

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

they aren't to your tastes.

it's not that i don't give af, i don't think that there are any unless they are severely mentally ill or stuck in crippling poverty. there's a fucking 82 year old grandma on youtube that still picks up hot young dudes on tinder like a breeze. she even gets to have standards about which guy she wants to have a LTR with, implying she has a shitton of choices. schizos find husbands. fatasses have a body positivity movement that wants to force us all to find obesity hot. their male counterparts don't get this.

millions of women are alone

alone or lonely? if your video or your tweet about how lonely you are has fucktons of views and comments from people that wanna see and talk to you, you aint alone. maybe you feel lonely, but you arent alone.

you can always buy your way out

how? hookers? paying for onlyfans? why do you think it solves loneliness any more than jerking off does

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

in a way true lonely women cannot

Oh horse puckey, she can buy her way out even easier - and cheaper.

[–]anonymous-platypus1 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Got browse foreveralonewomen sub and read those post. There are legitimately women that cannot find people because of their looks and social issues. Sounds familiar right?

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Legitimately"

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Getting easy sex isn't a cure to loneliness.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 0 points1 point  (10 children) | Copy Link

didnt say sex, they got more friends too

[–]Admirable_Bee_8714 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Also not a cure for loneliness. There is only so many wine and cheese nights you can have with the girls, especially when those friends have someone to go home to.

[–]no_bling_just_dingWhitePill (self aware MSTOW) 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

if having friends doesnt cure loneliness then nothing does

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

All but 2 women I know over the ago of 25 have children.

One is by choice one is medical reasons.

[–]aytubdotcom 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

are they married?

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

All but 2 are married 1 has never been and struggles to hold down a ltr The other is in a long term and has no interest in marriage, they might as well be

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry just realised you ment the ones that don’t have children. Yes they are both married

[–]greedyleopard42 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

they just want to start them later. career and other things are starting to take priority

[–]kokorwqac 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

because western men wanted easy sex, this is it's consequence

men lead the women in their community, this is western men's(at least, the ones in power's) fault.

[–]anonymous-platypus1 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There’s no reason to want to have kids in the west anymore for a lot of women. Men don’t inspire you want to carry their children. Or there’s so many medical risk that can leave your new family struggling post birth, it’s just not worth it for a lot of people.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Short answer is the current economic system

[–]lizzy1289 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

We do, we just don't want to start them with you.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you dont want to start a family with men, then who?

[–]Syrianchaddet -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Get over yourself. Your kids will really be messed up if this is how petty you are.

[–]lizzy1289 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Fine incel logic right there.

[–]Syrianchaddet 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tbh, now i gotta make a sex tape with my user in it, and post it as a gif. Any suggestions of who you want to be my costar? Like your mother if shes free tomorrow is a good choice.

[–]tonyrehmatdemir 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your previous post on this sub is all i need to gauge how logical you are.

[–]FastBananaViral -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, anyone who disagrees is an “incel”

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am not sure about western women.

I don't want to start families because pregnancy ruin your body with all these disgusting changes.I would rather take adopted one.I also see motherhood as very thankless job.I think I would make bad mom.

Like I am dressing and cooking for him,then kids come ruin all plans,boob sags, stretch marks increase,you get tired,libido goes down,now what you are going to do for husband?I would focus on being good wife rather than good mom.But I know man wouldn't like it.Also if marriage ends, spouse died,no one will want me.

I am type of person if kid says," I love dad more" and I will not give shit about it.So I don't give shit if people are saying more women are turning childless which is not bad news to me

Kids are annoying to raise and it is mom's job because dad mostly raise teens or adult.

I know my opinion is very shallow or edgy but this is what I believe.

I personally believe couple with same age starting families ( which is normal nowadays)is not good idea unless they takes effort for it.

For me, Starting family is only good idea if you are 18-23 and married to wealthy man who is much older than you so even if you turn ugly after kids,you will be still young in his eyes.Also with money,it is so so much easier to raise kid,with good parenting skills, raising kids will be fun.

But one thing thing I sometimes get confused about western women,they don't have to worry about child's gender.Thats advantage that at least you can raise kid with no mother- in- law drama.

If I am pregnant, first thing I will worry about is my child's gender.

[–]zoloftabuser 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Things that will just happen with aging. Incredible.

[–]kokorwqac 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

another thing, youth being overpraised in women while men are free to look older makes women want to maximize their youth as much as possible, which means no kids

housing being way too expensive and being broke in general is another for both men and women

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Things that will just happen with aging.

It happens but childbirth will make age you 20 times faster.Without it,you can at least maintain body.If you see older fit women,there is higher chance she has no kids or only 1-2 kids and have money.Of course there will be some exception.

Young hot fit women with single dad will enjoy it more.She only have to accept and raise kid,not ruining her body by giving birth and beauty matters to man

[–]mcove97NeutralPill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why does it appear that Western women dont want to start families?

Lots of reasons. For starters, lots of women are realizing that the childfree lifestyle is an option and that they don't have to have children just because that's what women have traditionally done. Some women are not interested in the role of being a mother or interested in raising their own children. I'm a childfree woman so all the things I'm mentioning here applies to me. Having children is also very expensive to raise, and women need to work to raise their children, because one income isn't enough, which limits their freedom, also financially. Having children is also a massive time sink, a hobby for 18+ years if you will. That's a huge commitment. Way bigger commitment than marriage. I'd argue divorcing a partner you no longer want or is happy with is easier than adopting a child away you no longer want or is happy with. Not to mention pregnancy and birth, which can be incredibly harmful to woman's physical and mental health. Some women are permanently injured for life, or worst case scenario, die, from complications due to pregnancy or birth. Some women also want to focus on their careers, and mixing children and careers is exhausting, so they choose to do what they want or enjoy more, which is work. Also let's not forget that women have better access to birth control and abortion than ever here, so they can prevent having unwanted children to a far larger degree.

Do they prefer just to be on the cc indefinitely?

No, not necessarily. Lots of childfree women want long term commitments/relationship or even marriage with other childfree men. They just don't want children for the reasons mentioned above. It doesn't necessarily have anything to wanting to be in the cc indefinitely. Not wanting children is not synonymous with wanting to live the sex and single life.

All in all is argue a large reason why women don't want to start families, boils down to having a sense of personal freedom, that just isn't achievable with children.

You should check out the childfree subs for more info.

[–]mcove97NeutralPill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And to adress the rest of your post and not just the headline:

Women in the west seem to be so focused on not needing men that they dont really care about starting a family.

Because we don't. We can provide for ourselves. Women can own and buy their own houses and cars etc. We don't need men financially. Emotionally etc a lot of women will need men, but not for money. (Which is something men should be happy about because women aren't just with them for their money, but that's another topic of discussion).

Most Western women dont even strive to be with one man for the rest of their lives

Because its not necessary. If a single man doesn't make you happy why stay with them?

let alone starting a family

Why start a family if you don't want one or can't find someone you want to start a family with?

Doesnt that mean western women will continue jumping from man to man indefinitely?

No, not necessarily. There's childfree men and women who are married and who stay married for life. Though, it is easier to leave a relationship or marriage you don't want to be in if you don't have kids with them, which is a good thing because no one should feel like they have to stay in a relationship or marriage they don't want to be in just for the sake of not "jumping from man to man indefinitely".

They jump in and out of "ltr's" adding more bodies

Doesn't matter to us if we don't care about that and date men who don't care about that.

and getting older

We all get old. It's not a death sentence to your dating life unless all you got going for your attractiveness is physical appearance. Those of us with attractive personalities however will still be able to date. (Etc. My former coworker who is 68 dating a man her own age).

and not starting a family or even desiring to.

Read earlier comment. It has a lot of cons, such as risks such as getting a vagiasshole from giving birth (yes that's a vagina asshole. Some women have pooped through their vaginas after giving birth having their vaginas completely obliterated. Yet people wonder why some of us women don't want to give birth...)

What will happen when western women no longer attract the men they desire?

Living the single life to the fullest in other ways. I'm currently following a solo female traveller on youtube. And she's living a far more interesting and fun life than most the people I know who have kids does.

Will they be content alone with cats?

What's wrong with cats? That aside, people have different hobbies and goals to focus on. I'd love to travel the world on my own someday.

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 4 points5 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Women in the west seem to be so focused on not needing men that they dont really care about starting a family.

Men are not needed in the west to start a family, there's sperm banks, IVF,adoption agencies and hookups apps that women can use to find the ideal man to procreate with and the ideal child to have.

Most Western women dont even strive to be with one man for the rest of their lives, let alone starting a family. Doesnt that mean western women will continue jumping from man to man indefinitely?

Western women were never really invested into monogamous relationships, they were simply forced into them. Enforced monogamy was the law of the land and now that it is all but disabled, Western women are adapting to their preferred mating strategy of only going for the top 20% of men. These women will continue to share the same man with 100's if not thousands of women in hopes of landing those men.

What will happen when western women no longer attract the men they desire? Will they be content alone with cats?

This is already happening as we speak. Most women will eventually age out of being able to land the top 20% of men in their age group for hookups. In the past they would settle for an average guy, marry him, have a couple of kids and get a divorce after 8-10 years. Nowadays, they refuse to settle and simply will stay single while hooking up with younger average to above average men. From what I've seen, most women seem to be pretty content with this arrangement.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

From what I've seen, most women seem to be pretty content with this arrangement.

What makes you say that?

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I work in a law office with several women who are 40+ and single. These women seem happy with their lives and are casually dating men their age and younger.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I work in a law office with several women who are 40+ and single.

Are they divorced or single mom?

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most are divorced with a couple of children.

[–]smashmouthkitten -3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It’s interesting that you say that because in the U.S. at least, the most unhappy demographic are women over the age of 45 who are single and childless. Maybe they think they will be content with the arrangement but then hit the wall and are faced with reality. Idk.

[–]kokorwqac 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's usually men above 65 who suicide the most.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly, that's what I asked what made him to say that they are content? Woman's happiness decrease with age

[–]kokorwqac 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's usually men above 65 who suicide the most.

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The women I work with have kids, I think that's the difference.

[–]SilentFroggy -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems like women are encouraging others to be on the cc.

[–]nothatyoucare 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's plenty of people as is OP. We could stand to decrease by a few billion people on this planet.

[–]BitsAndBobs304 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a man and Im antinatalist

[–]globalholiday5090 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i dont want kids or to be on the cc. I just want to live in peace.

[–]Odd-Luck7658 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are making up a lot of nonsense here.

[–]_Duriel_1000_[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

if you say so.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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