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"Women don't owe you anything."

Antisocial_Nihilist
August 9, 2022
27 upvotes
/r/AllPillDebate

Every guy in the manosphere has probably at some point heard the argument "Women don't owe you anything.", and I agree! They don't!

But why is it, when they become single moms with a kid they can't afford, then we all owe them financial aid? https://withfrank.org/how-to-pay-for-college/financial-aid/financial-assistance-for-single-mothers/

Or if they become homeless/displaced from an abusive relationship, then we owe them federally funded women-only shelters they can go to for a free bed and 3 hot meals a day? You might be thinking "But these are available for men to... right?". Well, there was one available in Canada for men displaced from abusive relationships, but the owner of the shelter was bullied and harassed so much by feminists that he fell into financial ruin and commited suicide: https://womenspost.ca/owner-of-shelter-for-abused-men-and-children-commits-suicide-after-financial-ruin-ridicule/

Or they want to go to college, then we owe them federally backed affirmative action scholarships just for being a woman? Despite 60% of college students (and rising) already being women: https://www.scholarshipsforwomen.net/

Or they want free abortions, free mammograms, free contraceptives, free this, free that? The list of women-only financial aid just goes on and on. They get it all, while men get nothing. https://abortionfunds.org/need-abortion/

So this brings me back to the first point of "Women don't owe you anything.", I fully 100% agree that nobody owes anyone anything in this life. But if that's true, we shouldn't be owing women anything either. Men should not be forced to pay taxes for massive amounts of benefits that only women have access to.

If you do not owe us anything, why should we owe you anything?

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Post Information
Title "Women don't owe you anything."
Author Antisocial_Nihilist
Upvotes 27
Comments 61
Date August 9, 2022 4:17 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/women-dont-owe-you-anything.1139697
https://theredarchive.com/post/1139697
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/wjtpeo/women_dont_owe_you_anything/
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Comments

[–]EulenWatcher 10 points11 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

"Women don't owe you anything" is about individual women not owning you anything. Just like an individual man doesn't owe anything to me or any other random woman if they aren't friends, lovers or family.

Paying taxes isn't about individuals owning to each other though, it's about society overall. And for society it makes sense to help the disadvantaged rather than to leave them be, because it often doesn't end well. I do think that things like DV shelters or cheaper health insurance should be available for all genders, but where I live there are a) very few shelters for women and there are non-gendered shelters just for people in need although they're mostly religious-based and b) health insurance programs aren't much different for men and women. Sometimes some clinics provide free mammograms and stuff, but they also have similar events for men's health usually related to prostate. In fact a quick google search shows it exists in the US as well.

From your own link about that terrible story, it seems the founder of male DV shelter had more issues with finance and the state not supporting him rather than with feminists. There's literally nothing about feminists in the article itself. It's awful, sure, I wish he got more support and his shelter would actually get financial help from the state.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 3 points4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Ah. But why did the state not support him?

Could it be because feminist intersectional thinking had infected the civil servants making the decisions.

It certainly has over here.

[–]EulenWatcher 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

I guess because the majority of people doesn't believe men can be abused. Both men and women.

You can blame feminism for it, but I think it's mostly the result of gender roles. Men are seen as the aggressors, active ones, women are victims, passive ones.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

Amber Heard rather changed that didn’t she?

[–]EulenWatcher 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I don't think so. More people got aware about male abuse victims, but I don't think the majority actually changed their beliefs. Plus, it's a very recent event.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

You might be surprised about those beliefs.

Most RP guys would support men’s shelters. They’d represent the nadir of a man’s personal growth, but would absolutely be a good start point for him understand a few home truths to rebuild himself.

Likewise, I think BLackPill guys would think the same.

So who does that leave? The blue-feminised-pill. How many women would feel genuine sympathy for a man battered or abused by his wife? I’d put money on that answer being very low indeed.

Furthermore: how many such men do you think there were from the 1950’s back?

You may claim that correlation does not mean causation, but there are an awful lot of social problems that seem to coincide with the rise of feminism - fatherlessness being the prime example.

[–]EulenWatcher 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

Both men and women hold this belief. Like there are stories about policemen arresting a male victim of abuse. They're usually men, but even they tend to believe that men can't be victims of abuse.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Most men are blue pilled. Simples.

Blue pilled guys tend to subscribe - more or less - to the fantasy that cosmo tends to push.

The commonality of both red and black pull paths is that they tacitly recognise that women can be casually, utterly evil, in a way that is generally condoned and excused by society.

And that society is not the same as it was pre-feminism.

Note: I’m not saying that men can’t be evil - far from it - I’m saying that women have their own special brand, and it isn’t really societally punished.

[–]EulenWatcher -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Again, the belief that men are more dangerous than women or that women can't be aggressors stems from traditional gender roles. It isn't feminism that invented and made it common.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

And yet the incidence of males getting such abuse from their wives pre-feminism was drastically less…

Are you really saying that men aren’t more dangerous than women? That it’s a zero sum game?

The issue here is a touch more nuanced than you are trying to imply. Men have dramatically more capacity for violence and destruction, but women are just as capable of evil behaviour. Death by the sword or death by poison is still death.

[–]Antisocial_NihilistRedPill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I got no problem paying taxes into programs and social institutions which everyone can equally benefit from. That is necessary to have a modern society.

The problem I have is paying taxes towards programs which are exclusive to women. And there are many, which costs billions annually.

[–]EulenWatcher 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem I have is paying taxes towards programs which are exclusive to women. And there are many, which costs billions annually.

That depends heavily on the country and I don't think I can keep up with this conversation as I'm not from the US.

[–]caption291 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Paying taxes isn't about individuals owning to each other though, it's about society overall.

Society is just a larger scale version of individuals owing each other. We just "automated" the concept and now people who don't pay attention think that no one owes anyone anything because they lack concept permanence.

[–]MarBitt 4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is the same as when someone claims to be independent, but someone else argues that they could not survive without other people, so we're all totally dependent on each other.

Both can be right, it's a matter of perspective.

In the welfare state, the state takes over part of the original role of the man. Financial support for mothers with children, protection for all.

As a result, it may seem to some that men are less important. Just as someone can pretend they are independent and don't need other people.

It's not true, of course, but it's convenient for individual people to pretend it is.

[–]Antisocial_NihilistRedPill[S] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"In the welfare state, the state takes over part of the original role of the man. Financial support for mothers with children, protection for all."

That's an important facet of this issue. The welfare state has taken over many of the roles men used to play in women's lives. Men are becoming more and more obsolete to women as the decades go on.

As a man, especially as a "lower value" one, I'm able to understand this. There really isn't anything we are able to offer women that they can't obtain through working themselves, or from the welfare state.

[–]TriggurWarning 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's more than just "we don't owe you anything." It's also "we hope you die soon, too." Low value men are less than nothing to women and society, they're perceived as a threat that provides literally nothing of value to women, and therefore shouldn't exist. That's why there's no media uproar about the absurdly high rate of suicide among middle aged men for example. If this were women, we'd have a suicide crisis center on every street corner, but for men, nothing. The high value men are largely cucks, so they either don't see the problem or don't care. And not everybody jumps off a bridge or uses a gun, sometimes deaths of despair are simply dealt with by abusing alcohol or other drugs (even food). What a wonderful world we live in... so advanced! So progressive! It's a fucking joke. I think women may be partially incapable of empathizing with low value men.

[–]bottleblank 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The high value men are largely cucks, so they either don't see the problem or don't care. And not everybody jumps off a bridge or uses a gun, sometimes deaths of despair are simply dealt with by abusing alcohol or other drugs (even food). What a wonderful world we live in... so advanced! So progressive! It's a fucking joke.

This is why a lot of men around men's rights find it so difficult to believe that any of this is truly progressive. If we really cared that much about bettering society, working together for a better future, ending culture wars and mending bridges, it would go both ways.

You can't claim to be a social progressive if every issue a man has is "his fault" or "men's fault" or "not my problem". You can't claim to be working towards a better humanity if any human who isn't you or isn't like you is suddenly "too difficult to help" or "refusing to be helped" or "unworthy of help".

I don't have a problem with bettering the lives of women, but only if we better the lives of men along with that. You can't just level up half of society and tell the other half to suck it up, and trying to do that betrays your supposed compassionate values.

[–]Andre27 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The issue is that the welfare still needs those obsolete men to actually provide those benefits on the behalf of those men. Without those men the welfare state would be powerless to supplant their position.

So the state uses the labor of men to steal their role in society and their benefits from said role, only providing stability in return, stability which makes it impossible for the downtrodden to rise up and become more than simply the dregs keeping society running for the benefit of those above.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW // أشهد أن لا حبة إلا الحبة السوداء 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

based and tedpilled

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree too.

Only thing they owe you is giving birth to your kids.

I remember when talking to one guy about marriage.He asked me what I wanted in marriage with man.I gave typical woman answer like protecting, taking care of whatever.

Then he asked,"What I will do for him?".I said sex lol.

He replied,"Besides sex,what else"

I said ,"Maybe cooking foods or massage him" He replied,"Yeah but you can get that by hiring maid"

After this discussion about what are man benefits in marriage, divorce law,jobs,what it takes to be man.My perspective changed.Now I no longer see marriage as special like I used to before nor I should expect marriage from man randomly .

I realised what hardship man has to go through.I remember in my college,they were providing special scholarship to girls,one boy was like ,"That's not fair" he was working at 2-3 jobs to pay college fees while my dad was financially able to pay my college fees still I was getting scholarship for it.

Woman should only owe you if they married you young and have kids.

[–]Antisocial_NihilistRedPill[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Or at the very least, we should make this a 2 way street.

If men have to pay massive amounts of taxes for women's benefits, then so should they for men's benefit.

We should be opening at least 1 "abused men" shelter in every state. We should be getting federal funding so men can get free healthcare and treatment for health issues which disproportionately effect men. Women make up the majority of college students, maybe its time for men to get affirmative action scholarships and higher admission rates just for being men? Ect., the list goes on.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I honestly wonder how women should pay for it like they aren't biologically designed to work 24 hours and normally they earn less than man.

Only way to stop all these is when women stop demanding stuff.Like in my previous relationship,my ex sometimes used to pay my bill for hearing aids and buys medicine (that's how I fall in love lol). I used to focus too much on that, keeping saying hey I am feeling pain.When it ended,I was bit surprised and started resenting him.After redpill and rpw,I realised how my ex worked hard.He was working hard in IT industry which is very rat-race culture .Then why should he pay for my bills when I am not doing anything but giving him more problems.Now I stopped feeling resentment.The thing is women will almost never understand it and Society are open to their demands.

About abused man,forget woman but will men actually come in group and create it ?like I can only imagine that they may face backlash for it and nothing else.So I wonder what will be the way.

[–]ectbot -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Welfare benefits those who need it, the child benefits from welfare no matter what gender the child is. A single father raising a child would receive the same benefits for him and his child. Healthcare, likewise - is for both genders.

And why does this exist? Because on a selfish level, people want to live in a relatively peaceful and stable society. On an altruistic, people dislike other individuals suffering.

The issue of men not receiving enough help for abuse is a different matter. It's about how society views men and women which has unfortunately prevented them receiving protective measures. Welfare can, and should address this.

[–]Comfortable-Unit-897 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will expound upon this. Nobody owes you a damn thing.

[–]Marzipan-Happy 2 points3 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Anybody in the right income bracket can get a Pell grant for college. Just saying.

Also, under the ACA prostate exams and colonoscopies are free gentlemen!

Also, if a man bails on his kids, he should pay child support. If she leaves with his kids, and there's not abuse involved, that's a whole different story.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (20 children) | Copy Link

How about if, while both are drunk, she gets pregnant?

And then she keeps the baby but he doesn’t want it?

That’s a girl making a decision to screw over a boy, and he has no defence.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 2 points3 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

And then she keeps the baby but he doesn’t want it?

That’s a girl making a decision to screw over a boy, and he has no defence.

Well doesn't people shame woman if she decides not to keep baby?

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

That’s not a defence.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Then what they should do?

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

That’s the tricky question.

Leave baby with mum, and she is rewarded for her “accident”.

Take baby away, and you are adding a burden to everyone else, and damaging the baby’s life.

Force an abortion? Obvious problems.

The point is that at the moment it’s the bloke getting screwed. And ladies don’t want to recognise it.

The best thing would be reliable reversible male contraception, that isn’t a condom.

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well then you didn't answer.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I’m open to suggestions.

Public shaming of the woman for choosing to have a child without a father being involved? Annual “walks of shame” a la Game of Thrones?

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Duh...I don't watch Got as it seems shitty to me.

I mean let's say she got pregnant and man don't want to keep it .What should be solution? Also you mentioned guy will be Messed up so what should we do to avoid that if she decides to keep baby?

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Man pays, but she has to do the walk of shame each year. Or she owes him sex. Or she has to clean his house…

Ta-dah!

The point is, she has to see negative consequences if she doesn’t, she isn’t motivated to avoid “accidents”.

So - any sensible suggestions?

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

They both made a stupid choice didn't they? It's up to the courts then.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Because the courts are always balanced and fair…

Oh wait, no.

In such decisions the courts rule in favour of the woman in over 90% of cases. Does that sound like equality?

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

Well, then the guy needs to pay her half of what an abortion would have cost her, or if they are in a state that does not permit it, half the cost of giving birth. After all, half his mistake. After that, it's not his problem.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Paying half the abortion fees - no problem. Easily divided.

Paying half the birth fees? Where exactly do they stop?

Plus, you haven’t understood the point I was making.

What if she gets pregnant, and then she keeps the baby but he doesn’t want it? Who pays all the costs then?

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

She pays the costs of being a parent. He's free from child support. He has to pay for half the birth. It's pretty cut and dry there. It's one hospital stay, one deductible/copay. Maternity visits in the US are co pay free. It's only giving birth that had to be paid for.

What I'm saying is : if he does not want it, and they are in a state that allows abortion, he should have to pay her a one time fee of half of what an abortion would cost. She could use it for whatever baby expenses Then? He's off the hook. No responsibility.

If they are in a state where abortion is banned he must pay half the hospital bill for the birth. It's a one time bill. There's nothing extra, no extra fees, that's not how it works any more. Then, he's free. Not his problem any more.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Interesting.

I completely agree with you in principal, however your proposal merely either condemns the innocent child to penury or burdens the state with its' welfare and education.

Most women - especially feminists - would not agree with you.

[–]Marzipan-Happy 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but at that point, what can you do? You can't force abortions, it's bad enough that states are removing that right as is. States are already burdened with a child's education anyways, every child receives a free education. As far as welfare goes .... wellllll. Living on welfare is a shit deal and a miserable way to live, but that doesn't doom the kid to an adult life of the same.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok.

So she’s not really paying the costs of being a parent then is she? The state is. Which means we all do.

So where is the negative motivation?

[–]IHateNormis 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I think it is sad that we live in a world where no one owes anyone anything now. Doing selfless things is literally one of the things that separates us from other animals. We don’t let the disabled or the elderly to fend for themselves and die, even hundreds of thousands of years ago in cavemen times.

Fuck this feminist mantra of “women don’t owe you anything”

[–]rurunoa 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

im pretty sure most women who say women dont owe you anything refer to sex

[–]IHateNormis 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

They are saying “anything”. Also saying “women don’t owe you sex” is incredibly insensitive to someone who does not have any sex

[–]rurunoa 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

i literally never had sex

[–]IHateNormis 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wasn’t referring to you

[–]Antisocial_NihilistRedPill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I support paying taxes for things everyone can use and benefit from. That's necessary to have any functional society.

But I don't support paying taxes for benefits that are exclusive to women. For guys like us, it's like being a forced betabux by the government, just turned down a few notches.

[–]IHateNormis 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, taxes from sexless men should never go to abortion, birth control or single mothers

[–]rurunoa 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah women dont owe men anything and men dont owe women financial aid (but they do owe it to the kid)

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

We support single mother’s because we are supporting the child by doing so. Many children will reach the educational level that their parents have so obviously we want that level To be high. We support people going to school and becoming productive because they become more productive for society and pay more taxes. I left the USA thank god we have much better social systems where I am now and everyone men women, children, elderly, disabled, everyone is better for it.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Single motherhood has the worst outcome for children. Even single fatherhood have better outcome for children when compare to single mothers.

Throwing money at single mothers only enables them.

Why don't we stop enabling single mothers. Single motherhood is a choice. You choose to sleep with bad boys or you choose to leave your husband. If you cared about the children, don't put them in a bad situation to begin with.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It is not a choice gtfo

Men leave their pregnant partners all the time. And accidents happen sex can be for fun, restricting abortions will only make it worse. My god you agree single parent households are bad for children yet you want to punish those children as a way to punish the mothers who find themselves in unfortunate situtioms

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men leave their pregnant partners all the time.

It is a choice. YOU choosing a shitty human being to sleep with is a choice. You're treating women like their children who can't differentiate a shitty person who would leave them vs a decent person who would stay.

And accidents happen sex can be for fun,

It's still a choice. How bout using proper protection? You know how many contraception's there are? And even if you decided to not properly use them which causes "accidents", you can still put you child up for adoption.

If we both agree that single motherhood is a detriment to kids, how bout we work on ways to prevent it from happening?

you want to punish those children as a way to punish the mothers who find themselves in unfortunate situtioms

Lastly, I'm not punishing anyone. It's the mothers who punish their own children. I didn't force them to have kids.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take my upvote

[–]Drive-By-CuckersWhitePill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women aren’t more likely to get into college anymore. Tons of private schools are mostly female and get mostly female applicants, especially liberal arts schools are more likely to accept men than women with the same grades

[–]RealNiceLady -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

OP, this is such a whiny post.

[–]SaltyGeekyLifter 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps.

Doesn’t make it wrong.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently women dont even owe us a proper comment and we get this stupid shit

[–]gilamonster69 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hell yes!!! Already in nature the life of a male is worth less then a female.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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