I think MGTOW, in terms of a sexual lifestyle, is absolute BS. What does AR think?

through_a_ways · 2014-03-03T00:13:43+00:00

I don't really understand all the vitriol directed at MGTOW.

It seems like a lot of them are essentially "herbivores", who shun the pursuit of sex and focus on other things. Many of them may have naturally low sex drives, and considering the social cost of sex, they may not see the point in pursuing it. So what?

As for as the "your reason to exist is breed" bit, I've seen quite a few redpillers who claim to not want children. I know at least 3 guys who are good/decent with women, and claim to not want children.

Kronos6948 · 2014-03-03T01:09:45+00:00

I was invited to this sub.

I've said numerous times I identify as MGTOW.

I think there are plenty of misconceptions here.

Just because I'm a MGTOW, doesn't mean I don't get laid. I just don't prioritize it as highly as most of the PUA and RP folks do. There's no need for it. Other folks can waste their time in bars in the hopes that they can get their dick wet, it's just not my top priority.
Self improvement is what MGTOW is all about. I'm not going to the gym because I want to look better to pick up women. I'm going to the gym because I've lived an unhealthy lifestyle and it's time for that to change. If it makes getting women easier, then that's a side benefit.

Your whole fucking reason to exist (as far as lovely mother nature is concerned) is breed. You are measured by the number of grand kids you have (evolutionary-wise).

There's more to life than breeding. I've never wanted kids, especially back when I was in my heyday and getting pussy in my teens. Kids are a hassle, and an expense. Call me greedy, but that's how it goes. I don't want them. Doesn't mean I hate kids, but I like the ones I can give back to the parents when my patience has met its end.

I know a group of people who tried to not have sex at all and deny that they need it, they are called Catholic Priests... how is that working out for them?

This is a shit argument. There are a group of Catholic priests who get off on diddling boys. But there are more Catholic priests out there, who have kept their vow of celibacy. For them, it's like folks who hate going to the gym yet do it anyway, or people who hate their job, yet they trek to work and do it.

BIG_Daddy_Government · 2014-03-03T00:58:20+00:00

what's the safest way to ride a bicycle? abstinence, don't ride.

what's the safest way to deal with women? abstinence, MGTOW (by MGTOW, im defining it as people who lost all interest in being with women and prefer living a solo life) i don't have anything against people, everyone is an adult with a brain capable of thinking his life choices. MGTOW seem to lack any interest in females, and thats understandable. Red pill is all about erasing the fairy tale of putting women on pedestals. However, men are biological creature prone to sexual drives.

The red pill is the healthy lifestyle to maintain your biological wants and needs while at the same time pursuing your life goals, adventures, interests without giving up your life to a coco loco woman.

RedSunBlue · 2014-03-03T13:26:59+00:00

I have no problem with the idea of MGTOW. Fuck, I'm probably what you would consider an MGTOW now. I work on myself and my interests while banging whatever woman happens to cross my path. I don't spend nearly as much time hunting down puss as I used to.

But I do have a problem with how many frustrated and thirsty dudes will claim MGTOW-status as a cover-up for their failures with women. It's "healthy at every size" for incels.

I do not wish to be associated with that kind of person, so I eschew the label. I prefer "Man of Leisure".

TRPsubmitter · 2014-03-03T09:52:43+00:00

I wouldn't presume to tell another man how to live his life. Women or no women. Up to him.

But MGTOWs can start to idolize and romanticize their "lone" lifestyle as if they have somehow beaten their "base instincts" by shunning women. Not true and it's a coping mechanism.

Basically, MGTOWs don't have a monopoly on the idea of "focus on the self".

MockingDead · 2014-03-03T19:37:37+00:00

I don't hate them. It's way too much energy. Honestly, I can understand the desire to maximize time for you and avoid something you are unsuccessful at.

FugitiveAlpha · 2014-03-03T19:47:29+00:00

So, if a women can't, absolutely can't, trump her genetic programming; why do men think that they can? How is a man saying "I don't fucking need a women." any different than a women saying "I don't do alpha fucks, beta bucks bullshit... NAWALT".

Neither can EVER. Let me explain, no woman (except an extremely broken one, perhaps) can trump her genetics, she will ALWAYS have this latent desire and/or tendency towards these things. Do all married women fuck the first alpha that they see? no, because there are other things that go on in her head.

It's been said of redpill "humans are more complex than that you cannot just say this or that about all women". This has some merit in that while I CAN say she has this tendency, i cannot say that something didn't happen in her life that made her afraid of white guys, or whatever it is that's making her behave differently. And the same stuff goes for guys, i tend to shy away from white American women, even the hot ones, due to personal experience. As a man i want to find and concur as much pussy as possible (tenancies) but i can fight it for whatever reason, if i think shes got an STD, if shes too young, annoying, or whatever.

In short, even a junkie has free will and doesn't HAVE TO inject that shit, but its hard as fuck for him not to when he wants to so very badly.

Doctor_Mayhem · 2014-03-05T00:02:30+00:00

In the case of "genetic programming" or any of that other stuff, think of it like this...

In a state of nature, at least half, if not most men, will either not live long enough to reproduce, or just won't get a shot at the mating market because they're just not good enough.

Think on that. In a state of nature, most men aren't going to even get a shot at the mating game, whereas, most women will.

Basically, men had to be engineered to be able to accept dying alone.

Bottom line: turns out, it's men who need women like a fish needs a bicycle.

2014-03-03T00:29:13+00:00

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PrometheanPower · 2014-03-03T01:24:23+00:00

while you may disagree with the MGTOW core tenants, the fact remains, that you are playing the game short, and MGTOW men are playing it long, as long as they can get women without much effort. If they are incels, I would presume by definition that they are apathetic about humanity in general, and nihilistically pursue short-term validation through other means, only interested in whatever pursuit they fancy, but not one that covers self-improvement. They are plenty of men that would consider themselves some level of MGTOW, and you hate them for the same reason you hate addicts and societal malcontents, who take away value from society.

You still believe in the con of society for some reason or another as the best way to have all your needs met. But what if you do not possess the mental capabilities to look into the future and do what is best for your long-term needs? Why do you hate men that look for the optimization of their long-term needs. You are generally scared or angry at to those that remind you of weaknesses within yourself. You are satiating your short-term needs, but does that add value to your life, or does it build contentedness and an inability to improve yourself.

InCel MGTOW are those that you are most angry at, because you see the same fear in you in them, lack of longterm goals. MGTOW generally have long-term goals and plan accordingly to see them accomplished.

Want a Lunar Colony, or a space ladder? Well, better not get in trouble with the gynocracy, by avoiding it altogether, and focus on what brings you the most happiness.

Stop worrying about the MGTOW and be thankful that they exist because it forces more and more hot women into your waiting arms. Unless you can't get over the fact that the MGTOW men deemed the women you are currently in some kind of relationship with, not worth the time of day. That hurts right?

2014-03-03T07:03:45+00:00

Porn and prostitutes seem like a pretty shitty "lesser or two evils" - but that's my opinion.

InferiousX · 2014-03-03T07:21:41+00:00

I think a balance of both things (doing your own thing, and enjoying women) is ideal, with the scale tilted towards your own projects, endeavors, hobbies, career etc

My life experience has taught me a very important lesson. Even if a woman implies or directly states that she wants to be the most important thing in your life, if you let her become that number one thing, she will ultimately resent you for it.

Whether it be a one night stand, or an LTR, I think it's key to have a life that's bigger and more encompassing than interactions with females. Cutting women out entirely IMO is unhealthy unless you genuinely feel that that is what you want to do. But doing it to prove a point or because you ascribe your well being to some ideology you read about on the internet, you may come up feeling out of touch with your own natural desires.

Again, to each their own.

aaron_the_just · 2014-03-03T15:37:12+00:00

I think we need to define MGTOW. I pretty much do what I want to, and women are an afterthought. The fact this strategy leads to me getting laid a lot is an artifact; it is not my original strategy.

RedBigMan · 2014-03-08T07:35:15+00:00

I think that while it is rare for women to become red pill themselves when they do realizing their inner nature they are capable of engaging in tactics and methods to mitigate or reduce the dependency on the hamster. Red Pill women are a rare breed of women who while possessing the traits women all have in common are far less prone to allowing their hamster to run amok. Most women are addicted to their hamster. Like alcoholics, the only way someone can get help is by taking the first step and admitting they have a problem in the first place. Most women never get to step 1 in this regard.

So, if a women can't, absolutely can't, trump her genetic programming; why do men think that they can? How is a man saying "I don't fucking need a women." (maybe if your gay, but my gay friends think that the guys they are fucking act like women) any different than a women saying "I don't do alpha fucks, beta bucks bullshit... NAWALT".

Men want sex because it feels good. Men can get a close enough feeling by using porn and jerking off then they can disengage from having to deal with women entirely for purposes of acquiring sex. Why do you think feminists want to ban porn and make prostitution illegal (in such a fashion that women don't get in trouble, only the John's do typically).

To me I think of MGTOW less as hating women or avoiding women all together and just disengaging from the chase (of pussy). Ironically, when you do this you tend to become more attractive to women since you're not giving off the vibe of being a dude desperate for sex.

GaiusScaevolus · 2014-03-03T01:06:01+00:00

I think, generally, MGTOW isn't to be taken literally. I'm sure there are a few guys out there who have dropped out of society and the gene pool for whatever reason, and they're welcome to do so. But overall I think these are the radicals, The MGTOW fundamentalists.

But generally when someone describes themselves as an MGTOW, they're saying they reject the tradition relationship and cultural paradigms. I personally prefer the term 'puerarch', but MGTOW seems to be the common parlance everyone has adopted.

kick6 · 2014-03-06T11:39:46+00:00

I think you need to spend a little time reading in the greater manosphere, and garner a better understanding of what all these terms mean as opposed to inventing your own definitions that fit your pre-conceived notions.

It's actually a problem I see a lot in TRP, and it's starting to bleed into AR. I'll make a post about it later.

Nitzi · 2014-03-02T23:48:56+00:00

There are several reasons why I hate them.

I always thought I hate people who want to feed me their views (vegetarians, feminists, White Knight) but I actually hate martyrs more (vegetarians, White Knight, male feminists)

I do hate people that want to feed me their views/ideologies and MTGOWs fall under that. But they are more pathetic than that, they think they can change something, now they sacrifice their happiness for a greater cause. But it is just a stupid excuse. So they are preachers and martyrs.

They are INCELS, till they find MGTOW, then they are INCELs with an excuse or incel by choice.

They lost the will to improve.

Anyone who stops improving has stopped being good.

And now they preach and want to bring others down to their level.

I compare mgtows who try to preach why their conquest is so great to Charlie and Alan from two and a half men. Imagine Alan tells charlie that he goes MGTOW because the effort is not worth it. And Charlie asks: "What effort". Alan: "You have to spent so much money and time on them" and Charlie looks confused.

Edit: Apparently I talked about herbivores that use MGTOW as an excuse.

Title	I think MGTOW, in terms of a sexual lifestyle, is absolute BS. What does AR think?
Author	ChauvOtoo
Upvotes	6
Comments	45
Date	March 2, 2014 11:39 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AlreadyRed
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/AlreadyRed/comments/1zdwt7/i_think_mgtow_in_terms_of_a_sexual_lifestyle_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AlreadyRed/i-think-mgtow-in-terms-of-a-sexual-lifestyle-is.1124324 https://theredarchive.com/post/1124324