Looking to understand the anti feminist viewpoint (mods, this is meant for understanding this sub's POV, so it shouldnt collide with rule 6)

VestigialHead · 2021-11-08T07:13:47+00:00

Sorry but the official definition of feminism does not reflect reality in anyway.

We are against what feminism is really about - which is a grab for power and privilege for women at the expense of men.

No feminism is about equality and never has been.

The21stJoker · 2021-11-08T07:26:15+00:00

"50.8 % of women and 49.2 % of male in america, and you dont think its weird that there has not been a female president or the fact that most politician are male. How can a women's perspective and needs be understood by a old white man."

because men and women have different interests on average. This can be seen in the stats of what jobs are dominated by each sex. Sure, some of this can be chalked up to gener roles, but in reality its gender roles amplifying a biological base.

politics is a highly competitive field. And men, by nature are often more brutally competitive than women. Women on average are actually put off by highly competitive environments as we can see with hobby choice. This makes sense as we can see with most social mammals, males compete for access to resources such at breeding privileges. Some competitiveness is for natural survival, sure, but a lot of intrasexual male competitiveness is driven by the desire to attract mates. This is still very much a thing in humans.

1) when I refer to feminism, i am refering to the official definition

2) media protrayel of any social movement has always been targetting the most radicalising of the group, in the case of feminism for example, they always pick those radical feminist that in reality only refer to like 5-8% of the entire feminist movement.

Too bad that the feminist movement doesnt really follow their definition, and even if it is only a small percentage of radicals, those radicals hold positions of influence in the movement and elsewhere. The rest are useful idiots that cant see what a decayed cesspit their movement has become.

we live in a society where gender role (a social construct) is enforced

ahahahahahahahaha, no we dont. Unlike some coutries that have 'morality police' we dont. No one is going to force you into a gender role. The worst you'll get is some looks and comments.

And gender roles arent entirely social constructs.

Im not even going to get into your 'stereotypes' stuff because its long-winded and this point has been beaten to death long before I joined the argument

Heres a guide on how to interact with women if you think you cant talk to women becuz feminist:

not going to get into this because this just shows your bias and lack of understanding of us as a whole.

And now for a bunch of obligatory stats that doesnt invalidate negative male experience, but highlight why feminism is still needed in todays society,

Feminism isnt needed in today's society, egalitarianism is.

no area in male bathroom for guys to take care of baby from , making it hard for single father to take care of child

what? I've seen baby changing stations everywhere. It has to do with the size of the establishment, not the gender.

when women refer to them being underpaid, its usually not the employer intention to underpay them, but the stereotype perpetuated that influence the employer behavior

Men are more likely to aggressively negotiate salaries, work more hours, and work more overtime.

In most cases the reason men get paid more money than their female counterparts its because of the above-listed reasons. Men on average just work more, more work = more chances to get recognized for said work = more raises. And in some cases, as it was shown with the Women's soccer team, where they may seem to get paid less, its actually that they get paid more but it's not always given in raw cash.

although its a very romantic idea to believe in that both men and women have equal oppurtunity to suceed in society, thats simply not the case when the system is designed against them from the start.

You're right, women are given more chances to succeed than men, they just dont fucking take them. A majority of college students are now women, yet they routinely choose lower-paying degrees. There are scholarships by the assload to pay for women to go into stem degrees that get few to no applicants.

I saw a post on a feminist sub where a woman contemplated not going into her dream career of neuroscience over some fucking unfounded rumors of 'mansplaining'. Thats it, she was seriously contemplating not going into neuroscience because she heard rumors that seniors can sometimes be a bit condescending to their juniors. Which, newsflash, happens in a shit ton of fields and happens to both women and men.

This happens far too often with women deciding not to go into fields simply from stereotypes and rumors that are for the most part, unfounded, overexaggerated, or no longer applicable.

Women are their own worst enemy. This also applies to gender roles/stereotypes by the way. No one is more vicious about women falling in line than other women.

VestigialHead · 2021-11-08T07:14:45+00:00

Oh and there have been many female leaders. Just because your country has not had one has no bearing on anything except that a quality female candidate has not stepped up to do the job.

JoeSmith1907 · 2021-11-08T07:25:03+00:00

Your assumptions are, to be diplomatic, heavily influenced by feminist thought. The "official" definition of feminism isn't official. It has nothing to do with what feminist icons or the feminist influencers really believe.

Men can show emotion. The emotions they can't show are those that make them undesirable to women.

Most men don't want to wear nail polish. Why would they. It's a waste of time and effort for no good reason. Long hair is unhygenic.

Most men I know don't cat call.

As for not having a female president, Sarah Palin polled very well among males. It was the feminist dominated media that mocked her. Also most males don't become president. It takes a considerable amount of time and effort to run for President. Most women don't want to do that. Anyway, I suspect Jill Biden, Susan Rice, and Nancy Pelosi are doing more to run the government than Joe Biden.

LondonDude123 · 2021-11-08T07:50:28+00:00

"50.8 % of women and 49.2 % of male in america, and you dont think its weird that there has not been a female president or the fact that most politician are male. How can a women's perspective and needs be understood by a old white man."

If 50.8% of Women WANTED a female President to represent them, they would vote for one, and win easily. After all, 50.8 is MORE than 49.2. Lets assume that people are voting PURELY based on Gender, your argument doesnt hold up because Women ARE THE MAJORITY. But no, there cant possibly be ANY OTHER REASON for it, its all the patriarchy. (I know you didnt SAY that, but its how most Feminists think).

when I refer to feminism, i am refering to the official definition

" Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements, and ideologies that aim to define and establish the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes "

Notice how the official definition doesnt mention increasing benefit of female but is instead "social equality of the sexes"

This is a logical fallocy called "Arguing to the definition". Basically just because thats the official definition doesnt define what it is. PETA claim to be FOR Animals, but put down hundreds of thousands of them per year. Feminism today DOES NOT follow that definition.

media protrayel of any social movement has always been targetting the most radicalising of the group, in the case of feminism for example, they always pick those radical feminist that in reality only refer to like 5-8% of the entire feminist movement.

Literally no different to what Feminists, and women in general, do to men ALL THE TIME. "Men run the world and are in power" because the top 0.0001 are rich as fuck. "Men are incels and pigs and misogynists" because theres a few weirdos out there. You wanna stop generalizing? Stop then.

we live in a society where gender role (a social construct) is enforced- one of the major fighting point for feminist has always been to bring awareness to the archaic gender role that plagued our society (which actually co allign with a lot of yall points if you actually try to understand it)

Women by and large want to throw off THEIR OWN gender roles, but have Men keep their own. The "Strong independant woman who doesnt need a man, but also wont fix her car or even pay for a date" is all too common.

You then go onto talk about what gender roles are, which we all know, and then waffle on how to speak to women. If you think thats how "we" are, you're in the wrong place or youre trolling. Im NOT going to dignify that with a response.

And now for a bunch of obligatory stats that doesnt invalidate negative male experience, but highlight why feminism is still needed in todays society, also some notes

-no area in male bathroom for guys to take care of baby from , making it hard for single father to take care of child (yes , this is a feminist issue because nurturing the baby has always been a ''women's job', go to the single father sub reddit if you want to learn more)

I have never ONCE seen Feminists bring this up. Never fucking once!

-there is still a disapprotionate amount of sexual assault and roofie cases by guys (something about toxic masculinity and women are suppose to be submissive is the major contributing factor)

Serious question, what do you want Feminists to do about this? In case you missed it, criminals DONT GIVE A SHIT about being told not to hurt Women. This is WHY criminals are criminals.

-when women refer to them being underpaid, its usually not the employer intention to underpay them, but the stereotype perpectuated that influence the employer behavior(the stereotype that girls are more gifted in artistic subject ,they are going to leave the company for their baby anyway, no use in investing in them, women cant work harder than guys )<-- literally all of these can be proven to have no biological basis with one click of your googleor ddg or bing

The Wage Gap does NOT exist. It has been disproven countless times. There IS an Earnings Gap which puts it at 98%, however when you consider that men are 91% more likely to die a work, "Losing" by 2% doesnt seem so bad.

In conclusion, although its a very romantic idea to believe in that both men and women have equal oppurtunity to suceed in society, thats simply not the case when the system is designed against them from the start.

Yes you are absolutely correct, the system is designed AGAINST MEN now. Women outnumber Men in STEM Fields, and in higher education as a whole by 60/40, and that number is rising. Despite this, theres COUNTLESS drives to get Women in higher paid jobs. Men are discriminated against in education, work, and basically most of their lives. Being a White Man is a piss easy target for anyone looking to be racist or sexist, and its fucking disgusting.

A almost 50 50 split of male and female yet the top 5 richest has always been a male.

I dunno, Jeff Bezos ex wife seems to be all right. Melinda Gates, Elon Musk's Ex, Jada Smith, yeah they seem to being pretty well for themselves. Bezos built Amazon out of a Garage in the 90s and became rich from it, his wife signed 2 bits of paper and took half the money...

maxlvb · 2021-11-08T09:22:42+00:00

"50.8 % of women and 49.2 % of male in america, and you dont think its weird that there has not been a female president or the fact that most politician are male. How can a women's perspective and needs be understood by a old white man."

You're off to a bad start...

Women = females

Males = men

So tell me why you refer to women and males in one sentence when discussing men and women? Feminists have hissy fits about referring to women as females in any context, but have no qualms about referring to men as 'males' in nearly everything they say about men. Why is that?

As for the actual question in the quote, as women are the majority voters, ask yourself why women dont vote for female politicians, especially those females running for president. Not that there's many women ever putting their names forward to be the president are there...

" Feminism is a range of social movements, political movements, and ideologies that aim to define and establish the political, economic, personal, and social equality of the sexes "

Yeah right....

Feminists like to claim that their movement is about "equality" and often use the dictionary definition as proof.

But what the dictionary says and what feminism and feminists do are two completely different things.

Actions speak louder than words, therefore feminism and feminists should be judged by what it and they do instead of what the dictionary definition says.

And through its actions the feminist movement has constantly shows that it isn't about equality, but is actually about female privilege and misandry - a skewed system in women's favour, seeking superior rights & privileges for women, demonising men & boys. It is very obvious that "equality" is nothing more than a mask that the feminist movement uses to conceal its female privilege and anti-male agendas.

media protrayel of any social movement has always been targetting the most radicalising of the group, in the case of feminism for example, they always pick those radical feminist that in reality only refer to like 5-8% of the entire feminist movement.

FYI: “Womanism is feminism's vulgate. It asserts that women are the oppressed or the victims and never the collaborators in the 'bad' things that men do. It entails a double standard around sexuality where women's sexual self-expression is seen as necessary and even desirable, but men's is seen as dangerous or even disgusting. Womanism is by no means confined to a tiny, politically motivated bunch of man-hating feminists, but is a regular feature of mainstream culture.”

we live in a society where gender role (a social construct) is enforced- one of the major fighting point for feminist has always been to bring awareness to the archaic gender role that plagued our society (which actually co allign with a lot of yall points if you actually try to understand it)

One of the reasons for the failure of feminism to dislodge deeply held perceptions of male and female behaviour was its insistence that women were victims, and men powerful patriarchs, which made a travesty of ordinary people's experience of the mutual interdependence of men and women.

Rosalind Coward

Skipping your typical feminist "how men have to behave to get women's approval' dogmatic ideology. AKA Mens 'toxic masculinity'

We've all heard before...

Toxic masculinity was originally created by the mythopoetic men's movement, with a completely different definition. The mythopoets believed that society was forcing boys to be feminine, instead of letting them be themselves.
Feminists twisted the definition by demanding men be more feminine, and deciding that they know what's best for men. The feminist definition of toxic masculinity is a backlash against the growing number of men speaking up.

Feminist definition of Toxic Masculinity = Hate speech about men.

The advent of third-wave feminism — which denies masculine and feminine essences outside of “patriarchal” socialisation processes — has now taken us too far in the denial of nature on the one hand, and the invisible imbalance of essentialising men only for their worst-case traits.
“The specious idea that gender differences are due entirely to culture, and have nothing to do with biological or archetypal predispositions, still enjoys wide currency in our society, yet it rests on the discredited tabula rasa theory of human development and is at variance with the overwhelming mass of anthropological and scientific evidence.”

Anthony Stevens, Jung: A Very Short Introduction

Feminism is never coming to help men. We no longer need to play nice. What are they gonna do? Not help us even MORE? So to paraphrase Feminists; no dick, no opinion. Fuck off, Big Sister. Men need Feminism like bicycles need fish.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-11-08T09:33:22+00:00

The post looks quite long so im happy toargue one point at a time.

Quote for you to think:

''50.8 % of women and 49.2 % of male in america, but 95%+ of people in jail are male''

If your response to that is ''thats because of male choices/behaviour'' then thats the same answer im giving to your quote, thats the result of female choice and behaviour.

theOverword · 2021-11-08T07:05:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Looking to understand the anti feminist viewpoint (mods, this is meant for understanding this sub's POV, so it shouldnt collide with rule 6)
Author	Klaus_M_notfound
Upvotes	0
Comments	36
Date	November 8, 2021 6:48 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/qp80c4/looking_to_understand_the_anti_feminist_viewpoint/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/looking-to-understand-the-anti-feminist-viewpoint.1085292 https://theredarchive.com/post/1085292