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QS26
[–]baneyney074 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe feminists should ask for some intelligence and brains instead of 'equal' rights
[–]PathTaken4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
If you think about it, women have more rights than most men.
[–]--Deleted101--3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Women aren't equal to men yet"
Yeah they're way higher with all the privileges they get!
[–]LILAC_kpopgirl0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
She's right
[–]QS26[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How just because someone disagrees with feminism that doesn’t automatically mean their sexist or an incel. If you honestly think that you’re delusional. I don’t like talking to people like you who think in absolutes.
It’s funny how as soon as someone who disagrees with feminism goes on the feminist Reddit they instantly get blocked but people like you can come over here without getting blocked. Ig we are actually more tolerant.
[–]-TRUTH_-1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
"Feminism becomes toxic when it is turned into something it's not" most of the posts here complaining about feminism seem to be complaining about those who think they are feminists when they are not real feminists. Feminism IS about equality between the two sexes and those who call themselves feminists and bash men are not real feminists. Hope the people on this sub realize that most the people they are posting about aren't feminists, and actual feminists want men and women to be treated with the same respect.
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If you told them they weren’t feminists they wouldn’t like that. They said the same thing you did but contradicted themselves multiple times in the comments. Feminism says they’re for equality but they’re not. As a black person I had to wait till another black person to get killed by a police for my problems be even heard and after two months they’d just forget and keep talking about stupid stuff like catcalling, man spreading, and convincing themselves that the pay gap exists even though professional economists who STUDY the economy say that it isn’t real. Even female economists. They only talked black issues when it benefits them and then move on and keep talking about pointless shit. Don’t take this personally but you’re full of krap. Every single time a feminist says feminism is about equality they instantly contradict themselves. You all use the same excuse. “They’re not real feminists.” Why can’t you face the fact that situations like this and even worse has become the status of your movement? WAKE UP.
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Maybe the movement I stand for has turned into something it tried not to be. I just hope one day there can be some movement that is the way feminism was supposed to be: equality for all. Just know not all people who say they are feminists are against true equality.
They’re not against it. They CONTRADICT it.
There already is a group. They’re called humanitarians.
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m tired of lame excuses like the one you just used.
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
You say you’re for equality but ignore men’s issues and think that you when you say “toxic masculinity” which isn’t real. I’d say toxic FEMININITY is more prominent in society.
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
I never said I ignore men's issues, both men and women have problems with equality, both toxic masculinity and toxic femininity is real. To be a feminist means you acknowledge that both sexes should be treated equally. Both men and women deserve to have their voices heard. I know people who call themselves feminists and are toxic towards men and I know it's a problem, but they are not feminists.
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
You’re movement is so flawed people don’t even follow the definition of it. It’s full of hypocrites. Unbelievable. I will NEVER be feminist again you’re horrible excuses won’t do. I’m a humanitarian we actually want equality for ALL. All feminism is women who want to have the privileges of men and women without the consequences. Don’t give me the same pathetic excuses you all give lol.
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
Well if you think that's what feminism is than I am not a feminist. I believe in true equality. I was raised to believe that's what feminism was, maybe I am wrong, maybe I am not. Sorry if I offended you but I appreciate the discussion, I've talked with a few people about this on this sub and it's definitely given me a new perspective to consider. I still believe feminism is equality for all, but hearing different views is always helpful in understanding the world around us.
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Feminism will never be for equality.
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
At the very least, it used to be.
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The movement that excluded people of color in the early 1900s you mean?
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Source?
Found some evidence of this myself, thanks for informing me, I had no idea. If you do have any sources on this let me know, I want to learn more.
[–]Telaphone1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
An ideological movement can only be judged based on the actions of it's adherents. There is no official definition of feminism because nobody ever had the authority to decide what it was. Feminism is just a word that came to be (invented by Charles Fourier) to label various movements throughout history of women fighting for their own interests. It can apply to movements of women fighting for equal rights as much as it can apply to movements of women fighting to completely oppress men.
However, the meaning of "feminism" evolved over time as people increasingly felt that feminism was a movement in itself, and that it should have a unique definition, instead of being a word that categorized multiple movements. Feminists themselves debated and argued with each other over what "feminism" should mean and stand for. And while feminists still disagree on a few things (see TERFs vs. intersectional feminists, for example), they all have a lot more in common than they have differences.
To define what feminism is today, you can of course look at the dictionary definition of feminism like many feminists do (usually something like "An ideology that supports gender equality"). But the dictionary doesn't decide what an ideology stands for, it just tries to provide a brief summary of what people commonly think an ideology is. It would be incredibly reductive of everything feminists have said, written and done to summarize feminism in just one sentence (or one paragraph).
Actions matter. And when it comes to feminism, today and for at least the last two decades, the radicals are the most active ones. They're not just a loud minority, they're pretty much the only ones doing anything - they write books and articles in the media that push their radical views, they organize and take part in protests, they orchestrate smear campaigns, witch hunts and boycotts, they get politicians to listen to them, they work in academia where they push their radical views on students, they enter the entertainment industry specifically to push their values into existing franchises...
There might be more moderate feminists than radical feminists, but moderate feminists rarely do any kind of activism. They don't write books and articles in the media, organize protests, or get politicians to listen to them. As feminists, they do nothing and they don't matter. Moderates, for the most part, are just people who think "I'm for equality, so I guess that makes me a feminist".
For example, let's look at the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). It's a law in the united states that was pushed by feminists. In summary, according to VAWA, when the police are called on the scene of a domestic dispute, they must arrest the person who represents the biggest threat. The way this is defined in VAWA, the biggest threat is always the man because he is stronger. The man could be the victim, he could have bruises or have been stabbed by his wife, and his wife could have no marks on her at all, and the police would still have to arrest the man because if he wanted to attack her, he could hurt her much more than she could hurt him.
If you tell me that VAWA was obviously the idea of radical feminists, not moderates, I will agree. But here's the thing: the fact that moderates don't agree with VAWA is useless when moderates don't do anything to have VAWA repealed. The radicals worked hard to get VAWA to pass - they wrote lots of articles in the media to draw attention to it, they called up politicians and used personal connections to get them to consider it... Moderates are just sitting at home, often not even aware of the problems with VAWA. And when someone tells moderates about VAWA, they just say "Oh, well, I'm for equality so I don't agree with VAWA" before going back to their daily routine. As if that accomplishes anything...
I'm not saying moderates must spend time and effort becoming activists. But if they don't, then they don't represent feminism. They're just watching from the stands at a soccer game where the actual players in the field are blatantly cheating. And when someone says "Ugh, soccer sucks, look at all the cheating", the moderates in the stands reply "Don't say that, we like soccer and we don't approve of the cheating!".
All that to say, feminism (like any movement) should be judged by the actions of it's members. Just calling yourself a feminist isn't enough to define what feminism is. And right now it's only the sexist radicals who are active. Whether you want to continue calling yourself a feminist, or whether you prefer to label yourself an egalitarian, humanitarian, or use no label at all (there's nothing wrong with just saying "I'm someone who supports gender equality"), that's up to you. But you should understand that feminism has been very radical and sexist for a while now, and it's unlikely you will ever redefine it.
And even if you could turn feminism into a moderate movement, keep in mind that's it's always going to be (by Fourier's original definition) a movement led by women. If you want equality, I'd suggest joining a movement in which men and women have equal influence, like an egalitarian movement (or again, no movement at all - you can stand and fight for equality without putting a label on yourself).
I agree that a movement is defined by what the people in it do, but I did not agree that most feminists are sexist. I do agree that there are bad "feminists" out there but I do not believe there is enough to represent the whole movement. And yes, feminism is made by and for woman and has helped with marriage equality, women's suffrage, reproductive rights, and more. I agree that sexism towards men is a problem, and bad "feminists" probably contribute to that, but this whole movement isn't sexist and is meant to bring equality among the sexes. I know mens issues are not brought up enough in talks of feminism, or anywhere for that matter, but feminism is not made to be sexist towards men, it's made to help women and other minorities. I know the feminist movement has flaws, excluding mens issues and excluding people of color back in the day, but feminism is the reason I can vote, have an abortion, own property, and marry who I want. Also a large portion of my family think the way I do about feminism and we still go to protests, vote, and call representatives. I know that there are plenty of people who call themselves feminists and advocate for true equality. So I honestly appreciate all you have given me to think about, but I still believe what I do about feminism.
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[–]baneyney074 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]PathTaken4 points5 points6 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]--Deleted101--3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]LILAC_kpopgirl0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_-1 points0 points1 point (16 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]QS26[S] 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Telaphone1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]-TRUTH_0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link