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r/feminism: let's moderate the wrong opinions!

April 27, 2021
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[–]FinallyReborn 12 points13 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

u/L0u1se

Let me address your points that lack substance and statistical backing.

Domestic Violence

Here is a bibliography examining 286 scholarly investigations: 221 empirical studies and 65 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners.  The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 371,600. 

https://web.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

More than 200 studies have shown that domestic abuse in relationships is gender symmetrical, with men and women perpetrating DV at approximately equal rates. The most common form of DV is reciprocal violence, and when it is not mutual, female-only and male~only partner violence occur with similar frequency among married couples.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.588.4366&rep=rep1&type=pdf

There are even studies showing that female-on-male violence is MORE common than male-on-female violence.

One study even showed that half (49.7%) of relationships which had violence were reciprocally violent, and that in nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.

https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020

Also, here's the LARGEST set of meta analyses on domestic violence by The Partner Abuse State of Knowledge Project (PASK). Researchers were asked to conduct a formal search for published, peer-reviewed studies through standard, widely-used search programs, and then catalogue and summarize all known research studies relevant to each major topic and its sub-topics. Approximately 12,000 studies were considered and more than 1,700 were summarized and organized into tables.

Here are some of the key findings:

  • Among large population samples, 57.9% of IPV reported was bi-directional, 42% unidirectional; 13.8% of the unidirectional violence was male to female (MFPV), 28.3% was female to male (FMPV)
  • Among school and college samples, percentage of bidirectional violence was 51.9%; 16.2% was MFPV and 31.9% was FMPV
  • Male and female IPV perpetrated from similar motives – primarily to get back at a partner for emotionally hurting them, because of stress or jealousy, to express anger and other feelings that they could not put into words or communicate, and to get their partner’s attention.
  • Eight studies directly compared men and women in the power/control motive and subjected their findings to statistical analyses. Three reported no significant gender differences and one had mixed findings. One paper found that women were more motivated to perpetrate violence as a result of power/control than were men, and three found that men were more motivated; however, gender differences were weak

https://domesticviolenceresearch.org

So approximately half of domestic violence is reciprocal violence where both partners abuse each other. And in cases of non-reciprocal violence, female violence towards men is just as common, if not more common, as male violence against women. Abusers of both genders reported perpetrating violence for similar reasons.

But guess what? Male victims face discrimination for simply being a victim of DV, women don't. There are systems in place like the Duluth model, which has caused men to be falsely arrested for simply being a victim, because Duluth is the most widely used method of treating DV that always assumed the man to be perpetrator, the creator herself stated that it was created by using feminist approved methods.

The following study found that men who had experienced domestic violence by the hands of a woman, and tried to seek help by calling DV hotlines, and shelters, they were told that they only help women, explicitly state that men are the actual instigators of the violence, or just straight up ridiculed them. The hotlines also frequently redirected the men to batterers programs.

The men who called the police also reported that they failed to respond, or were ridiculed by the police or being incorrectly arrested as the primary aggressor. And within the judicial system, some men who sustained DV reported experiencing gender-stereotyped treatment. Even with apparent corroborating evidence that their female partners were violent and that the help seekers were not, they reportedly lost custody of their children, were blocked from seeing their children, and were falsely accused by their partners of DV and abusing their children.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175099/

Objectification

And women are objectified, how? Men are objectified for their finances and ability to provide all throughout history.

https://greenpill.net/marriage-as-economic-slavery/

Men are objectified by being treated as disposable within society. And are told from youth women and children first so that any man that refuses to self-sacrifice himself for a woman is instantly shamed. Examples of this is the white feather movement, directly supported by feminists at the time who threw their support for the gynocentric White Feather campaign with the aim of shaming men into enlisting in the war effort when WW1 came around in 1914, with the sole backing of "female approval".

Then men have been 99.999% of American combat deaths and casualties (historically).

http://thewall-usa.com/information.asphttp://thewall-usa.com/women.asphttp://www.cwc.lsu.edu/other/stats/warcost.htm

So any man who hasn't sacrificed himself by enlisting in war was brutally shamed because he wasn't putting his life and livelihood on the line for women. They were drafted, shamed and pressured into self-sacrificing themselves for women, the state used it's monopoly on violence to throw men into the trenches as well as the social campaigns that came along with it that harassed any young man on the street who wasn't out there risking his life.

But no, men are not "objectified", but you are because men just happen to be attracted to your tits.

Human Trafficking

Men have been 70% of slaves throughout history, male slaves have always been in much higher demand than female slaves.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/182914?seq=1

And this appears to have been true throughout most of history. During WWII, the Nazis had 2 million female slaves and over 10 million male slaves. Many were prisoners of war, which was a common source of slaves throughout history. The Russians enslaved millions of men during WWII, many of whom they didn't even return after the war. And there's evidence of this kind of slavery going all the way back to Ancient Egypt.

In some languages, the word for slave only has a male form of the word, or ultimately derives from the male version of an older word because most slaves were assumed to be men (see The Privileged Sex for a source about this).

So where are these gender ideologues when it comes to the African slave trade, or slavery in general? Why is this not seen as a gendered crime or "oppression of men"? After all, you were oppressed because of your gender. Which is something feminists try to emphasize when it comes to the treatment of women in history.

It also wasn't always men who were responsible for this. Many wealthy women owned slaves, including male slaves. Queen Elizabeth had millions of slaves (African and Indian) working for her across the British empire. She also played an important role in the transatlantic slave trade. Which potentially makes her one of the biggest slavers in all of history. And therefore ticks another box that feminists use to try and gatekeep things like this; it wasn't men oppressing men.

[–]Jakeybaby125 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the sources

[–]Axolite 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow thanks a lot for the info

[–]ImportantResults[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The most disturbing fact about this is how women, the ones that by today's “standards” and supposed to be like the gatekeepers of virtue and goodness, are perfectly willing to oppress and even torture others alongside the “so vile men”.

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have no idea what you're talking about

[–]ImportantResults[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

About the studies that show how women can be as aggressive and usually more than men in domestic violence.

Also an important number of violence cases that appear to be among men are actually instigated by other women who coerce men to attack others, usually motivated by jealousy... in these cases women do participate but don't make it to the numbers, so they end up distorting the reality and make men appear the only instigators of violence simply because women that generally are physically weaker prefer to perform abuse through others.

[–]L0u1se -1 points0 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

It's not reliable to look at self reported cases of physical abuse since many abusers will actually claim they were the ones abused. Let's look at verifiable facts:

82% of people murdered by their (ex-)partners are women.

71% of modern day slaves are women.

You have no idea wtf you're talking about if you think being valued for your money is even close to the objectification women face.

[–]FinallyReborn 2 points3 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, and it would be underestimating male victims, as men are afraid to speak out in-case of being shamed, it's a fact women lie about DV, rape, child abuse, and so on more than men do.

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/false-allegations-of-adult-crimes

It's true that ~65% of deaths are women. Which is a slight majority. But when you include partner assisted suicides and everything, just as many men are killed because of domestic violence as women.

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.5042/jacpr.2010.0141/full/html

And since I already know your going to pull the "it was done in self-defence!" excuse, wrong. Here's a study out of Australia that finds that financial gain is one of the most common motivators for women who kill, and disproves the idea that women who kill their partners are only ever acting defensively against "abusers".

https://www.news.com.au/national/crime/they-are-calculating-what-makes-women-kill-their-partners/news-story/e5e6a97cc432c0f79363917471b78791

Not just financially... read the article I sent. I also brought up male disposability, you have yet to bring up how the hell women are actually objectified, if it's sexually, whatever, but it doesn't seem to change the rates that women are raped, considering men are raped and victims of sexually abuse just as often, if not more than women are.

  • In the NISVS in 2010, CDC found that 1.1% of men were forced to penetrate, and 1.1% of women were raped (Table 2.1 and 2.2 on pages 18 and 19).
  • In the NISVS in 2011, CDC found that 1.7% of men were forced to penetrate and 1.0% of women were raped (Table 1, page 5).
  • In the NISVS in 2012, CDC found that 1.7% of men were forced to penetrate and 1.2% of women were raped (Table A.1 and A.5 on pages 217 and 222).
  • In the NISVS in 2015, CDC found that 0.7% of men were forced to penetrate and 1.2% of women were raped (Table 1 and 2 on pages 15 and 16).

Rape is defined as being penetrated by the CDC, meaning when a man is victimized by a woman, which is a majority of cases, it isn't added to the "rape" graph, instead it's added to the "forced to penetrate" graph. Look into Mary P. Koss, the advisor for the CDC if you want to find out why this is. The following link is an article that critiques the definition of rape that was used.

https://time.com/3393442/cdc-rape-numbers/

Including all forms of abuse, such as sexual assault, sexual harassment, and stalking combined. Both 1/3 men and women have been victims of such.

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/NISVS-StateReportBook.pdf

This study found that men and women faced virtually the same levels of sexual harassment (61% and 62%).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5045312/

Men are 9x less likely to come forward with their stories, it happens to men at very similar rates and I'm sick of this myth continuing to exist.

https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2019-39470-001

Your an idiot who denies factual evidence. And you haven't sent a source for anything you have said, I have.

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]FinallyReborn 4 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I have no idea what your first link is referring to as you didn't specify, and I don't speak whatever language it is in.

I have told you, it appears as if women kill their partners more, because the methods women tend to use are usually less direct than the methods men use.

When it comes to intimate partner violence, women likely kill just as many men, if not more, through suicide, including assisted and staged suicides, as men do through homicide (or rather, when you combine homicides with suicides, the death rate is about equal).

Since my previous source isn't enough, here are multiple new ones.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6420923/

https://web.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.5042/jacpr.2010.0141/full/html

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.01506/full

It wouldn't take very many women getting away with things like this "because they're women" for IPV homicide rates to coverage. And if we look at suicide deaths by themselves (not including accidental or suspicious deaths) they're already equal to each other. I imagine most of those are legitimate suicides but these men are still driven to it because of the abusive actions of their partners. Including some cases where their partners directly assist in their suicide. Indicating some amount of "purposefulness" behind the deaths (I guess you could compare it to accidental vs premeditated homicides).

BUT, include killings where the women use a payed killer, getting a male lover, friend, etc to commit violence on their behalf, which subsequently gets recorded either as being both perpetrated and instigated by the third-party male, or – and even if the wife is found to be implicated – as a "multiple-offender" killing without reference to a wife.

Wives also tend to murder by subterfuge (classically through poisoning) and I'd wager that these types of homicide go undetected far more than the overt actions of their male counterparts do.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/330467428_Partner_Violence_as_Female-specific_in_Aetiology

There are other stats showing that men are more harshly punished in cases of domestic homicide as well. Here's a paper out of the UK from the Home Office Research and Statistics Department. It contains very detailed information on how men and women are treated in cases of domestic homicide and I thought you would like to have it.

It asserts that "differences do exist in the way men and women are treated in the criminal justice system, but... these differences largely favour women." It finds that "despite recent claims to the contrary, women are at less risk of imprisonment than men even in cases of domestic homicide. An analysis of cases dealt with between 1984 and 1992 shows that shows that 23% of females compared with only 4% of males indicted for homicide were acquitted on all charges. Of those found guilty, 80% of the women compared with 61% of the men were found guilty of the lesser charge of manslaughter, and more than two-thirds of the men convicted of manslaughter received a prison sentence compared with less than half the women."

So, to sum up:

  • Women indicted for domestic homicide were more likely than men to be acquitted.
  • If found guilty, women were more likely than men to be convicted of manslaughter instead of murder.
  • Women convicted of manslaughter were less likely than men to receive a prison sentence.

It does not provide information about the average length of the sentences which men and women received, but I think this is useful information anyway.

Human traffickers are mostly women, Australian Institute of Criminology report found. Obviously this doesn't change anything, but since you are a feminist, it's worth pointing out since when any crime that disproportionally effects men comes up you probably bring up the fact that it's "by other men!".

http://www.smh.com.au/national/human-traffickers-are-mostly-women-australian-institute-of-criminology-report-finds-20131128-2yclp.html

Here’s what mainstream media isn’t telling you about the commercial sexual exploitation of children.

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/10-surprising-and-counterintuitive-facts-about-child-sex-trafficking

Boys make up 50% of sex-trafficked victims in the US.

Trafficked children are treated as criminals despite federal law classifying anyone under 18 years of age a victim (though, as noted above, boys are more likely to be pushed into the criminal system and girls are more likely to be guided to social service).

Women make up buyers and traffickers as well: 40% of boys and 11% of girls surveyed said that they had served a female client, with 13 percent of the boys exclusively serving female clients.

Sex trafficking funds and resources are misappropriated: While the United States has spent almost $1.2 billion fighting sex trafficking globally, much of those funds have been misallocated on advertising and anti-trafficking campaigns rather than spent on actual evidence-based research and rescue operations. Also as noted above, sexist campaigns exclude males from the few help efforts that exist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1ovg2c/surprising_alternet_article_on_the_sex/

The U.S. Department of State began monitoring trafficking in persons in 1994, when the issue began to be covered in the Department’s Annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices. Originally, coverage focused on trafficking of women and girls for sexual purposes. The report coverage has broadened over the years, and U.S. embassies worldwide now routinely monitor and report on cases of trafficking in men, women, and children for all forms of forced labour, including agriculture, domestic service, construction work, and sweatshops, as well as trafficking for commercial sexual exploitation.

http://www.humantrafficking.org/countries/united_states_of_america

The fight against human trafficking has for more than a decade tried to protect women and children, often forgetting that men, too, are victims of "new slavery"... The National Human Rights Commission has looked into the stories of some of these forgotten victims - male migrant workers not recognised as casualties of the trade.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/14/headlines/headlines_30034148.php

Sometimes laws just don't cover slaves who are male.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2007-06/15/content_895414.htm

Even in death.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4843262.stm

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for reminding me why you should never try to debate with Americans

[–]ImportantResults[S] 6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Because you don't like proper evidence?

Why “Americans” though? Why the generalization? Can explain? Feel free... here we don't ban different opinions.

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Because I use sources from the UN and he tries to refute them with American statistics...

[–]ImportantResults[S] 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

American statistics? As I type this answer I see the last two links are Chinese and UK... I suspect you are not even reading them, you are just emitting default dismissals.

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Boys make up 50% of sex-trafficked victims in the US"

[–]Hismallboi 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because you can’t refute any of the points?

[–]Hismallboi 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

“OBjEcTifIcAtIoN”

Lmao shut up you don’t provide any sources etc

“Men who aren’t even alive now oppressed women, let’s hate men who didn’t do anything!”

[–]Kuato2012 10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Clearly that thread is on the moderators' radar... but the misandrist comments predictably get a free pass.

[–]ImportantResults[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And they clearly don´t moderate based on content, they punish the users whose opinion they don't like, and delete all their comments.

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

It's a feminist sub. It's not gonna ban me for being a feminist.

[–]OkLieThen 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Hating men is feminism.

[–]L0u1se 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely

[–]OkLieThen 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

At least you admit feminists hate men.

[–]StarZax 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Always has been like that

But it's ok, we hate feminists too

[–]Hismallboi 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sexism is feminism then?

[–]ImportantResults[S] 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

“It's OK, thanks for apologising”

[–]L0u1se 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

He apologised for being rude and I accepted his apology. What else do you want me to do?

[–]ImportantResults[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I merely point out how even comments that clearly are for apologizing are also deleted, proving that moderators won't moderate based on message contents but rather on who is commenting.

[–]L0u1se 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah you're right that's bad moderation

[–]Kuato2012[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I decided to remove this because a user's name wasn't redacted, so it was getting reported for targeted harassment. And to be fair, L0u1se ended up getting pinged and dragged into an argument here.

I understand that the purpose of your post is to demonstrate how the r/feminism mods selectively moderate. But the admins are on a nuking spree against male-oriented subs right now, so I don't want to give them any reason to take down r/everydaymisandry. I hope you understand.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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