questions from a woman for ex-red pill swallowers

onlyforsex · 2021-11-11T18:00:31+00:00

Honestly this guy sounds like someone I'd advise to dump, block and delete. Im all for helping people on a path to becoming better individuals but this guy sounds like too much work to be worth it and you can't change people who are unwilling to change.

Let me repeat that. You cannot change people who are unwilling to change.

If he hasn't shown any curiosities in your perspective, or worldview and just blocks it all out or talks you down then do yourself a favour and get a new boyfriend. This one is spent. You'll wish you did it sooner.

infinitymouse · 2021-11-11T18:31:06+00:00

🚩 🚩 🚩

Run run run!!

WestAtmosphere · 2021-11-11T18:43:07+00:00

The irony is he says women are looking for the next best thing but in fact the things he is saying sounds like HE is actually looking for the next best thing. Think about it ... if he was to re-enter the "dating market" he's complaining about money, women not loving men, body count, women peaking while reassuring himself he'll peak in 30-40. Why is he saying this if he is happily in a relationship?

He is bringing you down to trap you while looking for a different woman is what it sounds like. He brings you down when you feel secure to remind you to "stay in your place" . A relationship is supposed to make you feel SAFE not insecure.

This sounds like it's turning into a dangerous situation and I'd advise you to really rethink this relationship.

GoWest7 · 2021-11-11T18:11:10+00:00

I would tell him it's a cult and to get help. That ideology is toxic and will only turn into neglect, distance, disrespect, fear, cheating, and even abuse.

Environmental-Row979 · 2021-11-11T19:52:32+00:00

"marriage is a trap and only benefits women." "women trap men with marriage and then stop trying"

It's been shown again and again and again that both marriage and having children benefit men more than women. In fact, statistically speaking, unmarried and childless women are often among the "happiest" within a population. Meanwhile, married men are often happier and healthier than their unmarried peers.

Learningtolove2021 · 2021-11-11T18:19:08+00:00

I think it's relatively rare for people to be hateful for the sake of it or because they enjoy it - I'd put my money on deeply insecure. Nonetheless, his beliefs are toxic to a relationship. If you are interested in making at attempt to salvage things, I would suggest couples counseling with a male therapist (sadly he is more likely to listen to him than either you or a female therapist) who can disabuse him of these toxic views. But as you say, you have options...and if he shows any reluctance at all to jettison this wack ideology for the sake of your relationship, it's time to move on. I do believe people can change and hope he will sort himself out, but there is no reason for you to risk your own mental health in the process. ETA: I know your question wasn't directed at women but I was in a relationship with someone who had somewhat similar views and it was not a positive experience.

2021-11-11T19:58:40+00:00

he thinks that he would not be okay making less money than me, and would prefer for me to be a stay at home mom one day, but also wouldn't want to share his assets with me beyond necessities and wouldn't want me to be able to receive if I became dependent on him and we divorced. he thinks women are less valuable with every additional body added to their count

Sounds like he's priming you for a position where he can financially abuse and control you. It'll be harder to leave if you have no money of your own and think you're less valuable because you've already been with him (one extra body)

Do you want to get married and have kids one day? If you do, and you end up having kids with him, you'll be putting yourself in a very vulnerable position where you're at his mercy. That's what he wants/needs because this way you "won't stop trying".

Met several guys like this and it honestly comes from insecurities. They want to be needed and are afraid of being left behind so they try to gain control and put the other person down. Red pill coaches prey on these insecurities. The world and women's positions in it have changed pretty rapidly, some men are still struggling to adjust to the new world and don't want to have to try.

Yesm3can · 2021-11-11T19:45:39+00:00

It will only get more exhausting.

Other perspective: you are the woman version of one of those men who are dating a stereotypical angry tumblrina who blame everything on men.

You are one of those token minorities friends who got mentioned, whenever a racist got caught doin racist stuffs and wanting to do the mea culpa.

I am sorry to say but you really did ignore those red flags. Your BF is the male version of 'can't handle me at my worst don't deserve me at my best' individuals.

Exis007 · 2021-11-11T20:37:49+00:00

I think your heart is in the right place, but that your plan of attack is fundamentally flawed. This isn't a logical argument. You can't show him some study or make some fine point that's going to show him the flaw in his logic, thus getting him to think differently. This tower wasn't built on logic, so it won't crumble if you point out how the foundation is disintegrating. This serves a deeply personal and emotional need for him, and I can predict what will happen if you like. You'll have conversations with him where he'll concede you have a point. But a week later, an hour later, he'll be back harping on the same thing he just said might be unreasonable just a little while before and you'll feel like you're back where you started. That's because it will still feel as true to him, no matter what you say or even how much he agrees with you. He emotionally connects with this reality.

And if we get to brass tacks relationship advice, there's nothing to build here with him. He's never going to value you as a partner. He doesn't think you can love him. His vision of any future with you is literally impossible. You're...what...going to stay home and raise kids but also not have access to any money? Is he nuts? Besides, you'll have "peaked" and he'll be on his way to "prime" so your value is sinking in his eyes. Believe him when he tells you that he thinks you're worth a lot less than him. Believe him when he says this is fundamental to how he views the world. Then see the writing on the wall that you can't do anything here, that there's nothing to grow because he's poisoned the earth, and move on. You don't have to go away mad, you just gotta get the hell out of there.

For him to change his mind and spit out the red pill, he has to have an emotional reckoning that this thinking is hurting him, that it is making him unhappy, that it is setting him back. He's got to come to the conclusion that it is standing between him and happiness. Whether that will happen for him is up to him, but you staying with him will pretty much preclude that set of events. If you stay with him, the red pill is working because women love...whatever this is. And if you leave, you're just proving him right that you never really loved him and you were only after money or whatever other justification he's going to make. But that's his trauma. He's the one who has to work through it, you can't do it for him.

All you can do is look out for yourself and know that you can never bank on this man being your equal or having your back. You know that now, so don't throw good money (or time) after bad by trying to bail out the sinking ship.

The-Guy-In-Grey · 2021-11-11T19:25:42+00:00

I never believed "Red Pill" I just found it interesting the caliber of men who believe it, it's always the young man who wasn't that coy with females so this whole persona was developed, making the young men now grown men believe it was the female.

If you don't live together, dial back on the contact, stop calling/answering and if you reply to his texts make your responses are really short. Just to see how he reacts.

Most "red pill" men just like the sense of security it gives them in hearing that women need them and that nonsense. They really don't believe it.

D4n_the_guy · 2021-11-11T18:13:36+00:00

Get him to talk to a therapist. If not, there is a small chance that he'll get out of this mindset. It will be fucked for you to be in a relationship with him if you don't have the same mindset.

Bluetinfoilhat · 2021-11-11T20:29:52+00:00

I don't know why you haven't dumped him.

vcreativ · 2021-11-11T20:43:41+00:00

Yeah, any alpha or RP talk should be a red flag in my eyes.

The idea of the "options talk" is that you (you know, because you're a woman) are attracted more to someone who has more options. You need to keep to work him, basically. Because he could leave any minute.

I think it's wise of you to not enter a measuring contest in that regard. Nothing good could come of it.

What the fuck is this "alpha" power machismo thing and why do red pill men care so much about being "alpha"?

It's not real. In my mind, most men that are into the RP don't have a healthy (or any) concept of dominance or assertiveness or even what that would look like. Instead they idealise that which they lack under the "alpha" label and start self asserting it as their own. They need to repeat it to believe it. That's why they keep banging on about it.

Instead of working through their insecurities for which they lack the tools, they layer illusions on top because it alleviates some of the pain. This is not exclusive to RP, it's a rather classic pattern for "dealing" with insecurities.

You're in something of a conundrum. To stay is to enable his way of thinking and leaving would be rationalised as reason to believe that women are always looking for the next best thing, and therefore enable his philosophy again.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can reason with him and show him how ridiculous this all is?

I fear not. He needs a solid father figure and is likely missing one. I would be very surprised if he'd even listen to you considering that you are a woman.

Me personally, unless he displays concrete signals of willingness to change (i.e. him talking about how RP is wrong and getting into therapy, say) I'd leave him alone, it's unhealthy to stay. RP consumption is quite analogous to substance abuse. No one in their right mind would blame you.

No clue if this helps at all, but best of luck.

Snoo52682 · 2021-11-12T01:59:40+00:00

Maybe don't date someone who hates you? If you were black would you date a racist?

DullAmount6819 · 2021-11-12T03:51:23+00:00

If you love your peace and career and financial freedom, leave him. If you aren't career-oriented/wish to be a forever SAHM one day, definitely leave him. He isn't the traditional man you will be looking for anyways. He must be the type of man you know, who wants 3 super delicious meals a day, a clean af house, all his laundry done, and sex whenever he demands from you. But he won't provide for you if you understand what l mean. He will act like he is doing a favour on you by treating you as his maid, except for the fact that you will never get a penny as an allowance from him.

xvszero · 2021-11-11T23:25:27+00:00

Do you have any suggestions on how I can reason with him and show him how ridiculous this all is?

No.

Break up.

Seriously. That's the only real answer here.

Actually, in general I'd say never date anyone if you couldn't see yourself with who they are, right now, longterm. Otherwise you're not dating them, you're dating a hope and a dream, one that will most likely never come to fruition, and you will waste a LOT of time and energy before you finally realize that. It's not worth it.

How long have you been together?

AssInMyDick · 2021-11-12T16:24:24+00:00

I can tell by the patience you have for him in your post, youre a very sweet person and he's taking full advantage of that.

I can guarantee his plan is to either indoctrinate you or eventually dump you. He knows you don't think like he does, and that's an issue for him. He needs you on his level at all costs, and if he can't make that happen he will dump you. At that point he has nothing to lose, and he will say and whatever he wants to you as a parting gift. This mindset poisons and it's not to be trifled with. Sorry if this post seems overdramatic, but there can be real danger here and Id like to make sure you're aware of it before you make any decisions.

Kilagria · 2021-11-11T21:42:59+00:00

I bet he has a Madonna-whore complex.

Affectionate_Let5501 · 2021-11-11T19:52:17+00:00

I try to vouch for both sides I don't believe hypergamy is a real thing as a Biological aspect but more of a sociological aspect but most men try to be alpha because they don't want to be dumped and and cheated on and believe the woman they love will just bail. I do vouch for redpill in a sense that men are not what they used to be we have become lazy and uninspired the ambition to build and dominate have lessened. We do need these Type of men back but it is up to the new generation to bring it back. it is problematic because he is destroying a healthy relationship like I did. I hurt alot of woman when I was redpill and wish I could take back the damage I did but I ant and its a regret i will carry to my grave I hope you will show him my post and he will learn that he is only hurting a good woman.

joyo82 · 2021-11-11T19:40:19+00:00

What did it take for you to stop the red pill thinking?
I have I always been a left leaning liberal politically speaking. When Redpillers started promoting all the right wing conspiracy theories (e.g. big lie) with extreme libertarian views and promoting narcisstic behaviour as "alpha" I started to question the whole ideology and found my way out of it.
RedPill tries to stereotype people based on their gender. What helped me, was that apart from dating I had good experiences with women being friendly, helpful and showing empathy. I remember this scene from my childhood (probably 5th grade) when I was beeing bullied by a much bigger classmate in the school bus. Nobody would give a shit about me except for that girl who walked up to that bully and told him that she would beat the shit out of him if he would stop harassing me. I started to remember all the times women have helped or supported me ...

I dont think you can reason with your boyfriend but may be you can ask him questions like "Did any woman like your teacher, mom or anyone else did the slightest good thing for you? If yes, all women cant be bad ;-) But let him draw that conclusion for himself...

unlivedbread · 2021-11-12T05:44:12+00:00

Tell him to see a therapist or you're leaving

If I wasn't so compassionate I'd say leave him, and make it clear that TRP is the reason why

bluehorserunning · 2021-11-12T09:40:31+00:00

Run far, run fast, and do not look back.

Carloverguy20 · 2021-11-12T00:27:56+00:00

Geez, these are major red flags to me tbh. Looks like someone has a small package lol jk. Man is insecure about his partner making more than him, and saying that women peak in their 20s lol. Some of the most beautiful ladies are in the 30s, 40s, 50s, ever heard of Cougars, Milfs etc. Definitely get this guy help fast, this is just cringey stuff.

I think with the alpha thing, it's about being in power, being masculine strong etc, because they think that they will get women by it, but nope.

I was never truly redpilled though.

Naus1987 · 2021-11-12T03:04:23+00:00

My first question is why are you with him? If you’re with him just because he’s attractive or has money — then that feeds into red pill ideology.

If you’re with him for personality or intelligence— then you should be able to have some lengthy college level philosophical chats about it.

Not all of red pill is bad, especially when the facts are backed up by numbers. But the cult like following that’s built up around the few truths are absolutely concerning.

People often fall into cults when they don’t feel like they have a community to belong in already. So they seek out validation. Obviously if you just straight out call it a cult then that’ll probably trigger him, lol.

I don’t know enough about him to give solid advice. I know for me, I’ve never gotten sucked down the rabbit hole, because I’ve always put ethics first. And I agree with things that are ethical and disagree with things that are not ethical.

So all that nonsense about men having to make more money or women not being as capable. Those aren’t backed by ethics. That’s all emotionally driven fear reaction.

I guess find someone he idolizes that’s not a cult leader to teach him about ethics. And if he doesn’t respect you enough to have those debates then you probably should leave.

Like I said, why are you with him? If he knows you’re with him just because he looks good or any of those red pill reasons — that’ll only serve to validate his beliefs.

So tread carefully. But you got this!

blackmoes · 2021-11-23T09:03:26+00:00

please one day, just show him how many guys are just lined up, his heart will break

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hagakurejunkie · 2021-11-13T01:21:05+00:00

Wow, seems like just an angry woman looking to insult a man who obviously won't commit to her.

Cool, you're part of the problem.

023shone · 2021-11-11T18:06:54+00:00

What the fuck is this "alpha" power machismo thing and why do red pill men care so much about being "alpha"?

Of course a man would try his best to be alpha. It is in his insticts

Musundi002 · 2021-11-11T19:08:19+00:00

More red flags than a communist parade. He doesn't have options, though, lol. You'd have seen them.

My issue with TRP is that they deal with absolutes which isn't how the world functions. Certain women are no good being with just like men. TRP preaches that all women are out to men and all men are victims of the current dating scene (unless, of course, they take the TRP).

It's also like a cult where you can't question anything or lese you're blue pill/simp (whatever that means).

sleepy_sunflower · 2021-11-11T21:27:41+00:00

Hi there. I am a woman who was in a similar situation -- it took me a while to realize my ex was Red Pilled and when I realized it, I decided I was going to try to change his mind. I didn't do this directly because he didn't openly admit to being Red Pilled to me, but whenever questions about men, women & relationships came up, I tried to bring up lots of counterexamples, I tried to show studies and research that showed his ideas were flawed or pseudoscientific, and I tried to appeal to his humanity and really get him to see me as more of a whole, complex human being. In some rare conversations, it did seem like he was open to hearing me, but overall it did not work.

I mainly want you to be wary of what taking on the burden of changing his mind could do to you. For me, I developed a mindset that I had to personally prove wrong Red Pill ideas about women, and that became a huge source of stress for me, like I had to be the single representative for my gender. It's impossible to prove them wrong in their eyes, because Red Pill ideologies are wildly self-contradictory, so they'll come up with some sort of twisted explanation for your behavior even if it contradicts something else they say is true. They deal in confirmation bias and find ways to write their narratives onto any situation. They also fundamentally believe that women are incapable of accurately articulating their own feelings and needs, so anything you say is automatically discounted. Trying to prove wrong an illogical ideology whose core tenet is that women are untrustworthy sources will have you feeling insane! It's set up so that you can't win!

Believe me, I understand wanting to try to engage with him about this, because you care about him and want him to see the error of the ways and want him to see you as a fully human individual, not subject to some formulas about people's behavior! But in my experience, the toll it takes on you is not worth it. Feel free to dm me if you want to talk through it more, because I really can relate.

redpillsforwomen · 2021-12-15T12:08:14+00:00

He’s right.

redpillsforwomen · 2021-12-15T12:15:25+00:00

Tell him he needs a foreign wife. The gov won’t let her work for a year at least.

ludwig-fun · 2022-11-18T22:19:06+00:00

On the alpha thing: Red-Pillers believe that all women want an alpha male whos conventionally attractive, tall, rich etc.. So in their minds the only way to be with any woman whatsoever is to be super alpha.

I dont like that he thinks male body count does not matter, but men and women who have high body counts, tend to compensate for something, I think. Not all, but quite a few I think. Part of the incel problem is probably due to girls being slut shamed, so they don't approach shy guys that they think are cute.

I would suggest to not show him how ridiculous that is. Rather, to voice your own disagreement and to present him with alternatives. Discuss with him in a calm and collected manner. Research beforehand and show him data and cold hard facts. Focus on debunking stuff that, if true, would be a bad thing for him. Don't debunk copes like the men bloom later thing. I think you're correct with the self esteem thing. Show him youre there for him, but dont patronise. Its tough, best of luck!

Title	questions from a woman for ex-red pill swallowers
Author	TopDirection6929
Upvotes	45
Comments	61
Date	November 11, 2021 5:54 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/qrqukd/questions_from_a_woman_for_exred_pill_swallowers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/questions-from-a-woman-for-ex-red-pill-swallowers.1084643 https://theredarchive.com/post/1084643