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20% of women in China regret getting married. Only 7% of men regret getting married. 73% of divorced are initiated by women. Marriage has always been an institution meant to benefit men. More and more women are realizing this.

May 4, 2021
2904 upvotes

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Post Information
Title 20% of women in China regret getting married. Only 7% of men regret getting married. 73% of divorced are initiated by women. Marriage has always been an institution meant to benefit men. More and more women are realizing this.
Author freakfollow
Upvotes 2904
Comments 120
Date May 4, 2021 7:53 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/20-of-women-in-china-regret-getting-married-only-7.776535
https://theredarchive.com/post/776535
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/n4wh68/20_of_women_in_china_regret_getting_married_only/
Comments

[–]softensonicFDS Newbie 114 points115 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

I'd be really interested in reading the full article. Does anyone have access to it?

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 221 points222 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

It was one of those midnight musings, so common during adulthood, when the regrets and triumphs of our lives become vibrant characters dancing in our minds.

Liu Fang wrote a simple statement on Weibo that read: “What I regret most in my life is getting married and having a kid. How wonderful to just be alone!” Her post captured an increasingly common reality in China, where many people, primarily women, are questioning the institution of marriage itself.

Liu, 38, has been married for seven years and has a six-year-old son. When she first got married, she expected her happiness to be doubled and her sorrow halved, she said in an interview.

But the Shanghai woman, a white-collar employee at a financial data firm, said: “It turned out to be work tripled. The work in the office, the chores at home and the childcare work; I’ve been thinking about divorce all the time.”

Liu’s experience of being responsible for childcare and housework while maintaining a job is a common reason for unhappiness in a marriage. But so is increasing awareness of domestic violence against women and unfavourable public policies, such as the recently instituted one-month “cooling off period” for couples seeking a divorce.

While experts can debate what is causing such disillusionment, there is no debate that woman are increasingly unhappy in marriage, according to a recent survey.

Last year, almost 20 per cent of married women said they regret getting married, compared with 12 per cent in 2017 and 9 per cent in 2012, the annual China Beautiful Life Survey found.

Only about 7 per cent of men said they regret getting married.

The survey is jointly conducted by the National Bureau of Statistics, China Post Corporation, and the National School of Development at Peking University. It is issued to 100,000 households across China by mail.

China has witnessed a steadily rising number of divorces and falling number of marriages in the past decade.

The divorce-to-marriage ratio, or divorces as a percentage of marriages, was slightly above 20 per cent in 2009. In 2019 it hit 50 per cent, according to data from the Ministry of Civil Affairs.

The ratio dropped in 2020, the year of the coronavirus pandemic, but still remained high at above 45 per cent.

And most often it was the wife who initiated the break-up. According to data from the Supreme People’s Court, more than 73 per cent of divorce cases heard by all courts around China in 2017 were brought by women.

The government also appears aware of rising divorces, and on January 1, 2021 it implemented a law that requires couples to go through a 30-day “cooling off period” before they can complete the split. At the end of 2020, that impending law resulted in a rush of divorces so couples could avoid the cooling-off period. In a survey by China Central Television (CCTV) last year, nearly 47 per cent of Chinese men said they took part in housework before getting married, compared with 46 per cent of women. But the balance switched after marriage, with slightly above 46 per cent of men and 48 per cent of women saying they did chores.

Zhu Nan, a postdoctoral fellow at Macau University’s Department of Psychology, said one plausible reason for the satisfaction gap between wives and husbands could be men not doing their fair share of chores at home, which is a global issue.

“In most societies that researchers study, uneven divisions of household labour (usually favouring men) were significantly associated with marital dissatisfaction,” he said.

Zhu pointed out that the survey led by CCTV may not be methodologically rigorous compared with academic studies, and the findings may not precisely reflect the reality.

In the United States, 51 per cent of married men said they were satisfied with the way household chores are divided, compared with only 40 per cent of married women, according to a 2019 study published in the Pew Research Centre.

Among married fathers, 56 per cent said they are very satisfied with their spouse’s approach to parenting, compared with 42 per cent of married mothers.

Huang Yuqin, a sociology professor at East China University of Science and Technology, said wives in China shoulder a heavy burden of work, household chores and children’s education.

Chinese women’s labour participation rate remains high at above 60 per cent, one of the highest in the Asia-Pacific region, so many mothers are also working. But often, women are still charged with competing for their kids’ education, which is remarkably fierce in China, Huang said.

“They invest a lot of energy and time into their family, often far more than their husbands do … Dissatisfaction arises when the responsibilities the two sides take are inconsistent,” she said.

This is especially true with those between the ages of 36 and 45, who, the CCTV survey found, are the most unhappy. Huang said it could be because they are at the most tiring stage of life.

Growing media reports about violence against women, including several horrifying murders of women by their husbands, may also have disappointed those in marriage, Huang said.

“All this has made marriage less anticipated by women,” she said.

Between March 2016, when China enforced its first Anti-Domestic Violence Law, and the end of 2019, media reports showed at least 942 people died as a direct result of domestic violence, according to an annual report on the implementation of the law released in March by the Beijing-based women’s rights group Equality.

In 525 domestic violence cases that it studied, 85 per cent of the victims were female. Among them, most were between the ages of 18 and 60, meaning that married women were more likely to suffer from domestic violence, it said.

Many domestic violence cases were likely not counted because they happened in remote or underdeveloped areas that lack support from the media or NGOs. “Many cases just sparked a short-term discussion and soon disappeared in the ocean of new information. Some high-profile cases ended up without any follow-up reporting,” the report said.

Besides domestic violence concerns, some major changes in public policy are also putting women off marriage.

Hou Hongbin, a Guangzhou-based feminist writer, said: “The authorities have banned betrothal gifts from the groom’s family, but not dowries from the bride’s family. When it comes to domestic violence, local authorities often condone such behaviour and women have nowhere to hide.”

Women are under more pressure to bear children after the Chinese government abolished the one-child policy in 2015 and began encouraging families to raise two children amid concerns about the quickly ageing population, she said. Women may avoid getting married if they do not want to have children.

Zhu, the researcher in psychology, said that the fact that wives are less happy should prompt a re-evaluation of the cultural conceptualisation of the value of marriage.

“Getting married should no longer be the end goal for men and women, and we should stop putting overwhelming emphasis on that,” he said.

“Broadly speaking, people in China are slowly discarding the traditional conceptualisation of marriages, in which men are supposed to invest more in pursuing girlfriends, whereas women are supposed to sacrifice her well-being for the family.

“The new ideal, of course, is for both men and women to shoulder about half of the responsibilities at home,” he said.

And, as noted by Huang from East China University, women are starting to imagine different lives for themselves.

“They start to realise that people do not necessarily need to get married,” she said.

Liu, the unhappily married mother in Shanghai, said several of her friends remained single and they seem to lead a better life than she does.

“I cannot deny that I envy them very much, at least at this phase of my life. They belong to themselves, having time of their own either for leisure or career development. Perhaps when my boy is older, I’ll join them,” she said.

[–]immortallogicFDS Apprentice 80 points81 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Jesus Christ, it's getting worse and worse for Chinese women, and they're bowing out.

  • one month "cooling off" period and a rise in domestic violence and murdering, might there be a connection?

  • dowries still allowed from the bride side but canceled betrothal gifts from the groom's family

  • women now under more pressure to give birth due to declining replacement levels (of course, nothing to do with a policy that for years allowed parents to engage in sex selective pregnancies and abort daughters.... Did these idiots not see the consequences??)

I swear that between states becoming more repressive in general and to women in particular, and the gift that is liberal feminism, women are being set the fuck further and further back. It's so great that more women are saying F this and opting out (there are movements in East Asia where women are refusing to date/marry/have sex), but I wonder how, in the coming years, states are going to respond to this. Also why we need to have more women policy and lawmakers (who aren't puppets and patriarchy slaves)

Also:

Growing media reports about violence against women, including several horrifying murders of women by their husbands, may also have disappointed those in marriage, Huang said.

Ah yes, so "disappointing" when one gets murdered by the person that is supposed to always have their back.

[–]MagnfiqueMaleficentFDS Disciple 35 points36 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“He tortured then killed his wife. It was just so darn disappointing.”

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wonder that too. How did the idiots in power not understand that there would be a huge sex imbalance? The daughter would always go to live with her husband's family traditionally, and the lack of social/financial safety net meant that any family with one daughter and no sons wouldn't have any kind of funding or help later in life after she got married. The Chinese did this to themselves, and women naturally pay the price.

[–][deleted] 123 points124 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

The whole "cooling off" period pissed me off. My state has a 90 day "cooling off" period. I freaking hate it. Basically 90 more days I am legally shackled to him while he continues his affair. Just now no longer in secret cause why bother. 😡 asshat. There should be a waiver for it. Like, nah, I 100% want this divorce and will not regret my choice and will not be getting married to this p.o.s. again in the future. I do not need the male politicians of my state deciding what's best for me and my family.

[–]cmil7731FDS Newbie 79 points80 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It’s one year in Australia. 😭

[–]softensonicFDS Newbie 48 points49 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's awful. It's so obvious the state doesn't want to fill in for shitty fathers/parents, but they also want to milk us and our children like prized cows when it comes to taxation. Smdh.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ughhh that is so messed up!!!! Seriously why would anyone want to get married! What is their reasoning for that long of a cooling off period? I just don't get it!

The "plan" I always spoke to my daughter when she asked about her future (dating/marriage/kids, etc like all little girls do) was to have an education, career, house, husband and then have kids if you want. Now I am no longer even mentioning the last 2. I have completely shifted focus to education, career and house. Then BE HAPPY however that means to her. There are no rules.

She will also learn that any man in her future must also have those things established and be a bonus to her life, to consider getting married. Not marrying him out of some ridiculous "plan" and settling cause, could you really do any better? like I always looked at it as. That's just what you did. Graduate college ✔ House ✔ Get married✔ Kids✔ 🤦‍♀️

[–]cmil7731FDS Newbie 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You sound like a wonderful mum, passing down those lessons

[–]CaliforniaKedFDS Apprentice 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Government-instituted gaslighting: calm down! You’re being irrational. You’ll change your mind.

[–]softensonicFDS Newbie 38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you so much!

[–]fg_hjFDS Newbie 79 points80 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Was it once normal for a father to spend time chasing girlfriends while the mother took care of the family, as it states? Was cheating just completely socially accepted and expected or what am I reading?

[–]Connect_Chipmunk_691FDS Newbie 34 points35 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I took it to mean that during the dating stage men were investing more then once they got married they totally slacked off whereas once marriage happens it's expected for the woman to sacrifice her life for the family. So the man 'gives more' before marriage and the woman gives way more after marriage. Though it could be what you're saying as well! It's most definitely not a society that values women.

[–]lisping_lynxFDS Newbie 14 points15 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That's how I interpreted it as well. If the other variant is true, then I can't express how deranged it is and it's surprising that some Chinese women choose to marry at all.

[–]Connect_Chipmunk_691FDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Seriously! I was absolutely appalled when I heard about it being allowable for baby girls to be aborted or for baby girls to be abandoned in fields and things like that because girls were so undesirable. I forget when they outlawed those types of abortions. I think they did? Like really what did you think was going to happen if you were letting that stuff go on? Of course society and your population is going to be totally screwed up! And then letting the brakes off the one child policy was good but now it sounds like they're going to try to force every woman to have two kids automatically? Yikes!

[–]lisping_lynxFDS Newbie 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I have no sympathy for people who aborted girls and then suffer that their sons lack romantic prospects. I just hope it clicks in their minds that it's totally their fault.

I hope it doesn't come to that - I mean, governments could encourage people to have more kids by offering assistance and stuff. Forcing sounds handmaid-ish.

[–]Connect_Chipmunk_691FDS Newbie 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

💯% agree with you! I'm concerned about how that government is going to try to right this. The way that government has been with human rights violations? Eesh!

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Totally their fault. The culture is fucked.

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Right. The other variant seems way too extreme, but I could be wrong.

[–]Connect_Chipmunk_691FDS Newbie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True. Who knows. There's so much craziness over there.

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 54 points55 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, from my understanding, pretty much. The men get a blind eye turned to the whole thing, and it's not seen as "cheating" since they're still married to the mother of their children.

[–]softensonicFDS Newbie 36 points37 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the things I've learned about Asian households through my girlfriends is how common and normalized cheating is...

[–]engineergorlFDS Newbie 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lol as recently as 100 years ago in China, polygamy was legal, common, and “high status” because supporting multiple women and the additional children meant the man had money. Technically, he had a “main wife”, but his mistresses could be given legal status as his secondary wives or consorts (“concubines”) to be part of his household (which meant he was legally obligated to support their living expenses and children). So yeah, cheating was basically an institution, and wives had to live together with their husband’s legal side pieces. When China became communist, the system was completely discontinued because Mao Zedong and the CCP granted more rights to women (like divorce) so that women could contribute their productivity to the state. Now, I criticize the CCP as much as anyone else, but when the CCP came to power, they singlehandedly brought women’s rights 1000 years forward. Mao had been forced into an arranged marriage when he was young and HATED it, so later in life he straight up banned arranged marriage (meaning women and men could not be forced to marry against their will). However, old habits die hard. Having a mistress is still a status symbol because again, it means you have money. Now though, the mistress is usually hidden and does not live in the same house as the wife, nor does the mistress have any legal tie to the man.

[–]charmparticleFDS Newbie 76 points77 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fascinating article. In Shanghai, there is a park where parents go to advertise their adult children for marriage with handwritten bios on umbrellas. Age, height, income level, and divorce status seem to be important factors. Also, none of the single adult children are there, it's all about the parents.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_marriage_market

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 31 points32 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wasn't aware of that. Very interesting (and depressing).

[–]butteryrumFDS Newbie 83 points84 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you know what Chinese culture thinks of unmarried women over 25?? They call them "leftover women" Men outnumber women yet are often still choosy beggars. You'd think with women actually being in short supply that would help encourage men to treat women better but no.

edit: Much more optimistic take on the leftover women culture issue.

[–]catsuramenFDS Newbie 28 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup. Chinese culture harass women for not marrying their sons who bring nothing to the table. For those bottom LVM, his family would KIDNIP women from vietnam/thailand/cambodia to have his children. They call this marriage finding services but honestly, it's just taking advantage of women and tricking them marrying overseas is all they got.

oh wait - that sounds familiar in the first world country.

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, Leta Hong Fincher has a great book about it. Called Leftover Women. Highly recommend.

[–]me_ologyFDS Newbie 240 points241 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

That 1 month cooling-off period for divorce that the government has instated is wrong. I've never been married or divorced but I can imagine that if the thought of divorce even pops into your head, you're not in a good situation with your partner and you're definitely not happy. It's not a spur of the moment decision to make so there's no need for a cooling-off period.

And the fact that the article also stated that over 70% of divorces are initiated by women in China, it's like the government are thinking the women aren't being rational to seek divorce, they're being hysterical, "they'll change their minds once they get the time to think clearly". It keeps women tied to their shitty husbands for longer, and some of these men are even violent, when you consider the amount of domestic violence that can happen within the marriages.

It's so insulting, it's a slap in the face.

[–]HaveNoIdeaWhatToPickFDS Newbie 89 points90 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And the fact that the article also stated that over 70% of divorces are initiated by women in China, it's like the government are thinking the women aren't being rational to seek divorce, they're being hysterical

Yep, that's what always gets me. If it was another way around nobody would say men are irrational or hysterical, but would automatically assume their wives must have been awful.

[–]penelopekittyFDS STRATEGY COACH 71 points72 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

In the US we have a ONE YEAR cooling off period in certain states. Ask me how I know.

[–]anotherone1119FDS Newbie 30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Still married to my ex bc of this. Thanks NC.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes!!! My state is 90 days!!!!! It's insane! So my soon to be ex husband gets to just continue his affair in public now... no need to hide it any more since we are separated. Freaking jerk. I guess the male dominated lawmakers decided they know what's best. Got to keep the little women stuck in the marriages longer.

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 134 points135 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh yes. Plus, domestic violence isn't recognized as a crime or as a reason for divorce. That's considered personal "family matters," and police won't intervene. So the government essentially forces the woman to stay in an abusive relationship for another month -- and women are most likely to get killed by their partners when they are about to leave or have just left. Which is why women are encouraged to leave marriages very quickly and without notice, to flee to a women's shelter... This one-month thing just raises the risk of a woman being killed by her partner.

[–]level_up_alwaysFDS Disciple 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

horrible smh

[–]StarbornDancingFDS Newbie 41 points42 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It probably involves telling the other partner about their intention to divorce. Giving husbands a month to "persuade" their wives not to divorce, and given the amount of domestic violence...

It's sick.

[–]MadamePotpourriFDS Newbie 103 points104 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A "cooling off period" sounds like a discipline for a toddler. The Chinese government is treating married women like children with this ridiculous rule.

[–]Lazy-Tax3986FDS Newbie 399 points400 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

More women are not getting married but they are cohabiting & having children with their "boyfriends" for 8+ years for some reason, saying "I don't care about marriage, but I have given my entire life, body, womb, and house to this man for over a decade." Which situation is better?

[–]LetsGetin_FormationFDS Newbie 190 points191 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you’re going to have children, buy a house and combine finances with a man, marriage is better. That way when he cheats and fucks up you’re more likely to be entitled to what’s yours financially. Make sure your prenuptial agreements protect you.

[–]dembar126FDS Newbie 128 points129 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That way when he cheats

Very important word. 😉

[–]level_up_alwaysFDS Disciple 84 points85 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the blackpill we all need tbh

[–]LordDunderheadFDS Apprentice 208 points209 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If you don't want children, don't get married so you're financially independent.

If you do want children, it's better to be married instead of just cohabiting for financial security in case he tries to leave or cheat etc, AND:

There's also been studies that children from married couples end up better in terms of general emotional wellbeing and is the most stable environment for children to grow up in.

[–]missingmykittiesFDS Newbie 48 points49 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

There's also been studies that children from married couples end up better in terms of general emotional wellbeing and is the most stable environment for children to grow up in.

This, like everything in life, is entirely dependent on the people/ parents involved. As the child of two (married) people who should never have had children, much less with each other, the idea that married couples provide the most stable environment for children to grow up in and produce children with better emotional well-being makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. edit: missed a word

[–]LordDunderheadFDS Apprentice 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The study talks about averages, obviously they don't apply to every single person.

It's like saying you don't believe in vaccines because you can still get sick.

I'm not promoting marriage either, I'm childfree myself and not interested in marriage.

The article I'm referring to https://www.brookings.edu/research/cohabiting-parents-differ-from-married-ones-in-three-big-ways/

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 117 points118 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A LVM is a LVM. Either situation with a LVM, you're fucked. A cohabiting relationship with a HVM is pointless, too. Really, the only combination that is any good is a marriage with a HVM.

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 68 points69 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I firmly believe if you intend to have a baby with a man, you should be married to him. At least in my country, that affords you legal protections and ensures that if he leaves, you aren't left with nothing.

[–]level_up_alwaysFDS Disciple 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

so the worst of both worlds -_-

[–]Blackrose_FDS Newbie 197 points198 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

It's because this is the demographic tipping point. Aging Chinese Boomers 57-75 have insisted on their garish and transactional nature of familial piety and servitude. They expect 18-28 year old's to marry their son, have kids and take on the triple whammy of responsibilities of aged care, child care, job, study, husband and enjoy being utterly controlled by that family. The carrot is the idea that they get to inherit everything when they are gone, but the stick is that after a decade or so of servitude, there might not be anything left.

It can't be done. These people survived the horrors of the cultural revolution, and have adopted an incredibly mercenary attitude towards their offspring. This is also very common in most cultures, of dumping the load of domestic duties off on the nearest available woman with all the sexist shit too boot.

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 147 points148 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I dated a Chinese man a while ago and I was shocked at what his very traditional parents expected. For instance, they wanted us to pay THEM an allowance once we moved in together and got jobs. They were rich, too. They thought of their son as an annuity. Pretty gross.

Edit since someone asked: we were both 26 and he was from Hong Kong. This attitude is extremely common in southern China and Hong Kong.

[–]Blackrose_FDS Newbie 93 points94 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The entitlement of these people knows no bounds. They screw over their offspring's shot at a happier life and like crabs in a bucket.

It's also to an extent an Indian, Asian and anywhere where there is a dowry culture, or familial piety you have this ugly entitled and down right wrong culture of mistreatment of women.

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 89 points90 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You are so right about the way they treat women, too. The son's wife is never considered a true part of the family. She is just a slave that births sons to carry on the family name. She is maid to the parents, her husband, and ultimately her grown male children.

[–]softensonicFDS Newbie 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My boyfriend's family (boomers) wouldn't help him pay $1500 after crashing into a rock driving 1.5hrs to work on a backroad because it's the only route. But they were happy to spend 100k renovating their house to sell it...

ETA: Adding this story because they are white, just to reiterate race is irrelevant to this greedy generation.

[–]StarbornDancingFDS Newbie 61 points62 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Same deal in South Korea, you're expected (as a couple) to pay an allowance as gratitude for them raising him. Like there not going to expect to move in when they get too old to live independently 🙄.

[–]catsuramenFDS Newbie 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just curious, does the bride's family also expect the couple to pay an allowance to them? or just the bride's share is expected?

[–]StarbornDancingFDS Newbie 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not actually sure on that one as an official thing. I don't believe so, is hard because a lot of this is more etiquette than hard and fast rules. It's always changing really quickly too because in comparison to other countries is only recently that families have started to have a lot more money. Definitely if a guy didn't take care of his in-laws he wouldn't be seen as a decent person and he would suffer at work/be shamed for that. So if the bride's parents were struggling then the husband would find a way to help them out, even if it's just to keep up appearances.

Most of my friends will give their mother money when they visit, not like an official allowance kind of thing but just to help their mum out. Thing is there was no saving for retirement and they were really late to introducing a government pension so a lot of older people live below the poverty line. Also a lot of people's retirement plans are to own a small business like a cafe or a restaurant and live off that, but of course business is risky so they can end up losing everything. So giving your parents money so they can be comfortable kind of makes sense (the whole informal, "let me contribute to my younger siblings school fees" or "take care of your health and buy some X").

As for an official allowance that gets deposited into a bank account each month, I don't think it's so much of a norm these days (at least with the people I talk to)? I've always heard of it in the context of an upper class family where both couples are really well off. The amount is in the thousands but for the people making it, it's not a big sum of money and the whole thing is about the symbolism of taking care of your parents and showing your gratitude.

Families over there are often quite involved, like you visit your in-laws and you get sent home with enough home made food for a whole week (and enough opinions about everything for several lifetimes lol). So in some ways it kind of evens out.

There's also parents day where the kids will arrange a really elaborately wrapped gift with fruit and flowers and like wads of cash. It's really confusing coming from a culture where giving money as a gift is seen as really low effort/tacky.

There's also an interesting dynamic in older couples is that the man is expected to hand his paycheck over to his wife who does the running of the house/groceries etc. He then receives an allowance from her as his own spending money. The couples that follow it are really strict about it too, like if the wife says that's his allowance then that's what he gets. There's "cute" stories of guys getting a small amount of money they weren't expecting and being like shhh don't tell my wife.

I don't know heaps about it because most of my friends are preferring to remain single because culturally/socially things are still catching up to their economic status. So you can have one couple where the woman quits work and looks after their child and the husband will give her his paycheck and then there are some (few) couples where the husband will take a couple of years off to look after the kids and both are of the same generation.

There's actually a book that was made into a movie called Kim Ji-Young, Born 1982. It's basically about a woman who is unsatisfied with staying home looking after the kids and it's seen as this huge feminist book and like internet dudes are all about cancelling female celebrities who are seen to read it.

[–]level_up_alwaysFDS Disciple 49 points50 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel like there is a similar thing happening in the US with baby boomers and their kids although the cultural pressure isn't as high it's still there and they are still entitled AF and don't understand how different things are now economically technology etc.

[–]ShittyPianistFDS Newbie 235 points236 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

I've always been skeeved out about marriage - from the finances aspect to the traditions to the idea of being legally tethered to someone no matter what - tho, these are merely my own reasons.

Can someone enlighten me to more ways that "marriage has always been an institution meant to benefit men?" Genuinely curious.

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 271 points272 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Biggest one for me is that married women have shorter lifespans, and married men have longer lifespans. I mean, correlation isn't causation, but I can totally believe that marriage causes a woman to die younger from stress alone. Whereas men get emotional support and stress relief from housework and childcare, so makes sense they would live longer.

[–]Twolipz_78FDS Newbie 63 points64 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Does FDS hear me when I show other women the way? I literally just said the same thing about men living longer than women in marriage and how it benefits them to like 3 different people today!

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women also lead healthier lives than men. By and large, women take care of their skin, their diets, and their exercise routines in a way that men just can't be bothered. So when cohabitating, women benefit men with their habits while getting dragged into men's shittier habits.

[–]GoAskAliFDS Newbie 37 points38 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Check out the book History of the Wife by Marylin Yalom.

One of the most eye-opening books I ever read, and I'm glad I read it in College. It's also just a very well researched, well written book. Even if you aren't someone who generally enjoys reading non-fiction I think this book would still be hard to put down.

A history of the wife : Yalom, Marilyn : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

[–]lisanolisaFDS Newbie 130 points131 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For the longest time in most cultures, marriage served to benefit men to give them an heir and someone to pass property rights down to. Women were just the vessel for that. This is still the common reason for getting married where im from unfortunately. Girls as young as 12 are getting married to grown ass men.

The more modern answer for your question would be about how generally in most households, both people work but the woman ALSO takes on most of the childcare, chores and emotional labour. Men get a wife, cleaner, cook, regular sex and baby sitter... most women think they’ve hit the jackpot if a guy ticks just one of these roles off lol

[–]thowawaywookieFDS Newbie 56 points57 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AllieBirdLFDS Newbie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the link!

[–]Melodic_Novel6309FDS Newbie 162 points163 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I've had nightmares about walking down the aisle, either being forced to or forcing myself to marry some guy I'm very neutral about. Before FDS, I used to think something was wrong with me. Wasn't I supposed to be dreaming and planning my perfect wedding?

Funny how the tables have turned now. I've heard of so many marriages falling apart recently. Seems like my nightmares are statistically more accurate than any fantasies. It's something I've always kind of known deep down, but I was called crazy for believing my intuition.

[–]InthefullspectrumFDS Newbie 77 points78 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Omg, so do I!!! The other day one of my mom’s friend told her: “I have a dream. It was your daughter’s wedding day and she was doing her makeup...” all I can thought was: “Girl, was I crying?” Because every time I dream of getting married it is actually a nightmare.”

[–]berryberrykicksFDS Apprentice 36 points37 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Before FDS, I wasn’t opposed to the idea of getting married. But I wasn’t really thinking about it too much. I couldn’t really get too much beyond the wedding concept.

Wearing a beautiful dress at a party with my friends sounds fun. I love cake. Getting presents is dope. But the idea of planning a wedding gives me hives.

That much effort, drama, and stress. Just thinking about a pinterest board of wedding ideas makes me sweaty.

If I can get beyond the wedding, so many features of marriage freaks me out. Tangling my life up with a man? Mutual bank account? A family phone plan? Deed to the house?

Alarm bells were always screaming in my head when I thought about that stuff. It always seemed so… dangerous.

Post FDS- well, turns out I was right.

[–]OptionalCookieFDS Newbie 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Preach sister, preach.

I am so glad I found this sub.

It is like my worst fears about getting in a relationship weren't bullshit, and there are other women feeling it too.

[–]butterfly105 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had an actual nightmare about marrying my ex. I was walking down the aisle and I was SO unhappy. Thankfully it was all a dream 😁

[–]level_up_alwaysFDS Disciple 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i never cared about marriage, falling in love yes marriage not really. would only marry for $ but now that's not even worth it after learning more of the realities and being financially dependent on someone without being married was horrible i couldn't imagine that x10 plus you going to court to get rid of them ughhh

[–]The_PyramidionPickmeisha™️ 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lucky you, I'm still at that age where my peers plan expensive dream weddings like on tv and have kids left and right and everyone gives me that "just wait til you're approaching fourty, you'll be a lonely, miserable wretch" spiel even though I've had this opinion on marriage ever since I hit puberty.

[–]cat_lioFDS Newbie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had a nightmare last night that a boyfriend proposed, I said yes, and then freaked out right after and noped out. Nooo thank you

[–]Ceadeus_vaturaFDS Newbie 149 points150 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Ah yes China. The great nation that calls women over 30 "leftovers".

This statistic just proves again how much they are missing out. /s

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 113 points114 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Not just China unfortunately. This has spread to many parts of Asia, almost every country has a term for young, unmarried women. I've heard in Japan, women over 25 are called Christmas cakes since nobody wants them after the 25th.

[–]Ceadeus_vaturaFDS Newbie 45 points46 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know if I should be disgusted or sad. Maybe a little bit of both.

[–]freakfollowFDS Newbie[S] 29 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both, definitely both

[–]berryberrykicksFDS Apprentice 72 points73 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wait a second.

Christmas, the most popular holiday, combined with cake, one of the best things to eat, is supposed to be an INSULT?!

Screw that. Sign me up. I want to be a Japanese Christmas cake. My skin will be flawless. My fashion will be phenomenal. My options will be endless.

I can be tiered, frosted, layered, rich, decadent, decorated, festive, sweet, pretty, angelic, tart, or surrounded by candle light. I’m the highlight at weddings and birthdays and parties.

I’m a vacation from work, traditional, individualistic, beautiful, and exciting. I’m draped in finery and usually traveling.

Oh? Did they mean a “fruit cake” specifically? Sounds like their insult isn’t really precise or accurate. Kinda like the idea that women over 25 are unwanted.

[–]PraximarosThrowaway Account 46 points47 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s an old fashioned term used back in the 80s. Calling someone a “Christmas cake” today is like making a “get back in the kitchen” joke. The average age of marriage for Japanese women is one of the oldest in the world.

[–]StarbornDancingFDS Newbie 25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Jokes on them, Christmas cakes are even better after Christmas. Not to mention if they mean a traditional Christmas cake - they last forever without going dry or stale. Just another example of men outing that they don't bake.

[–]MagnfiqueMaleficentFDS Disciple 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing about being a “leftover” or a Christmas cake after Christmas is this: No one has yet consumed you. You’re still standing; independent and wholly intact.

In no way should we accept this title with shame or envy of those who have been consumed by others by the age of 25. Let the pickmes be the ones to get tricked into thinking a lifetime of domestic slavery to a man who wants a bang maid is a good deal for them.

Hell yeah, I’m a Christmas cake! And stop trying to lick my icing! 🎂

[–]softensonicFDS Newbie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that will make em pop out babies for the state! 😍

[–]StarbornDancingFDS Newbie 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In a country where men can't get wives too 🙄. Or complain that women only marry men who have basic shit together.

[–]gravedestruct1onFDS Apprentice 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Marriage has always been an institution meant to benefit men” is a reality that hit you hard. I still struggle with feeling bitter occasionally of just how much the media lies to you about marriage, which leads you into relationships with men with doe eyes when you’re finally an adult. I do think marriage with a HVM is worth it, although even then you need to accept the fact that once you have marriage/kids your freedom is limited in the sense that you need to discuss with your partner to be on board with certain decisions like you can’t just say you want to move to x and do it, you have to think about them their jobs etc & kids.... well self explanatory. Watching my older sister have a very fussy baby has got me rethinking just how difficult child raising is and her husband helps her and she’s a temporary stay at home mom while going back to school for a different field. I really couldn’t imagine doing it alone and working on top of that, sounds incredibly stressful and exhausting.

I’ve been dating a potential HVM for some time and it’s been really refreshing to find someone who actually follows the role of what I can see a future husband should be according to the media. It seems like it’s almost always the opposite way around. He’s romantic and writes me love letters, buys me flowers and gifts, does creative pieces for me, enjoys planning dates and has a very self sacrificing attitude of wanting my happiness over his. His emotional intelligence is incredibly high and can tell if I’m telling him I’m okay with my best face bc I don’t want to break down from home like stress with my family and sits with me and holds me while I let of everything that’s been bothering me. I know it’s said a lot on here, but truly the difference between these situations where men don’t care that their wives are literally killing themselves by taking care of everything and they don’t give a damn, is really a lack of empathy, low emotional intelligence (not being able to cater to their wives emotional needs and provide adequate words of comfort and support), and straight up selfishness/entitlement. A relationship with selfish people never work...it’s never enough for them. Been there, done that, never again.

[–]level_up_alwaysFDS Disciple 15 points16 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would've thought it'd be higher tbh

[–]humaninthemakingThrowaway Account 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! It would be interesting to see the number if women in long term relationships were also included in the study.

[–]kangaskhaniscubonesFDS Newbie 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's time to wake up. Marriage is generally bad for women and good for men. Something about the institution itself needs to change to make it fair.

[–]bill_dollaThrowaway Account 18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My beautiful lovely ladies - never forget that MANY studies confirm that single, childfree women are the happiest demographic on the planet!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202102/why-are-single-women-without-children-so-happy

https://youtu.be/I52UCZDwetw

Awesome TED talk:

https://youtu.be/lyZysfafOAs

Remember that happiness can be found within yourself. You are beautiful, you are strong, you are intelligent, you are capable!

My mother was in a shitty marriage all her life and when she finally kicked my dad out she started to GLOW. She now spends time feeding the homeless and she feels so damn satisfied and happy doing it! She taught me that giving to others is the easiest way to discover just how abundant ✨your life is. She feels great knowing that she has so much to offer others.

Never date a man because you are LOOKING for happiness, but rather, date a man if it feels like a celebration of your already existing happiness. Either way, remember that the happiness is within you. This is what Buddha and Jesus were trying to teach us all along.

[–]carboncricketoniceFDS Newbie 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is why I often don't agree with the whole marriage idea and that being the "the girlfriend" is the worst thing ever because becoming some dudes wife seems like an absolute nightmare.

[–]Willow-LuckyFDS Newbie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But, but, what about the countless movies and shows depicting the unmeasurable excitement and fulfillment women feel when a man finally pops the question?? 💍

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy Link

I love being married. That being said, my marriage to my husband is sealed by a name that his ancestors were forcibly given by people who kidnapped them from across the world, or “owned” them in our supposedly democratic country. My “maiden” name is my fathers name, and it means father in another language lol so essentially I think this goes deeper than the institution of marriage. Marriage is lovely, but it’s what you make of it. Nobody is perfect, both he and I have our struggles, but we apologize and do better the next time, and the next time. I think any partnership, whatever label you wish to assign it, can be such a powerful and beautiful thing. He has made me so much stronger, and I him because we are both equally invested. Equity is issue here, not marriage. People treating each other like trash, mainly men treating women and anyone who doesn’t fit the very narrow toxic male mold, is the overarching issue, here as I’m sure many on this sub would agree.

I’ve discussed a lot of what is stated on here with my husband, and he is in complete agreeance, however a lot of these stereotypes are mainly applicable to white men. Sure, we love to vilify Asian and Middle Eastern and Hispanic and Black and Latin X misogynistic culture aspects, but mainly the ones calling the shots now as far as culture are white men of privilege. Everyone else is taking cues from them. I see it in my everyday life, even, people deferring to white men. What they say and do still holds a lot more weight. Not to say that other cultures don’t treat women like garbage, but white men are among the worst offenders of abuse and domestic violence as they can easily get away with it with a slap on the wrist. White men love to point the finger at other cultures that attempt to coexist on a foundation of love contrary to the predominant rape culture and say,

“Don’t you feel so lucky to be here among us civilized folks?”

Perhaps my marriage is working in part bc my husband empathizes with the inequities of women, knows first-hand what it is like to be objectified and treated like less than human. Sad but true.

[–]ariadn3-268FDS Newbie 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

While I appreciate some of the sentiment, I can tell you with complete certainty as a woman of color that my culture's misogyny is 100% authentic. It's been misogynistic since wayyyyyy before white Europeans interacted with my ancestors, and it hasn't gone away -- the misogyny just updates once in a while, trapping and draining women in new, innovative ways. Men of color often don't react like your husband does -- instead, many will hold their frustration with being objectified and treated as less than human because of racism, and then they take it out on the women of color in their lives. On top of that, my culture pressures women to remain silent about "family affairs" and not to "air dirty laundry," so I can't even begin to tell you how many women in my culture are beaten within an inch of their lives by their fathers, brothers, or husbands, and who will never, ever tell the authorities. How's that for a "slap on the wrist" for domestic violence?

The "toxic male mold" is not narrow -- toxic masculinity is actually how most men are raised in most cultures, including in my culture as well as in the white European and white American cultures that predominate in the world due to colonialism. It's actually healthy masculinity that's the much narrower mold, in any culture, because it consists of men who see and actively choose to fight against misogyny.

For all my fellow WOC out there reading this, don't let MOC deflect responsibility for their own actions by pointing their finger at white men. Vet all of them. Misogyny from white culture and misogyny from POC cultures are both poisonous.

[–]LoudAdeptness_2FDS Newbie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I don't understand myself this mentality that mostly white libfems have about how non-whie men are any better, as a Pakistani woman I'm not scared of white men killing me cause I'm no longer a Muslim, I'm scared of my men of my own race, Including my own family members killing me

I've seen so much normalized abuse in my own culture

[–]LoudAdeptness_2FDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Colonialism ruined a million things with In the Indian subcontinent, but it didn't make the males Any more misogynistic then already were

Women were treated like filth before and they were treated like filth after

I'm Pakistani and I hate most Pakistan men more then anyone, you're white and you have a right to hate white men as their the ones who directly oppress you but don't pretend that non-white men are better and In My case they are worse

Seriously your mentality is offensive towards non-white women And the horror's they have to go through

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I am sorry to hear about womens’ struggles with men in Pakistan, however never said that other men of other backgrounds aren’t sexist and misogynistic and do horrifying things in the world. I only said white men are the primary offenders as they can get away with a lot more. My husband is black and he’s been cuffed to cars, had guns pulled on him in front of his own house as a child, running errands for his parents in his own neighborhood. I had to bail him out of a pretend jail they made in a racist town near our home one time for no reason apart from he was black and the police knew I had no choice but to pay their stupid fine. So they unlawfully held my husband at the station so I could bribe them to get him out for a minor traffic offense. That being said, that’s been his experience with white men. Wherever they go in the world, also, they really fuck shit up. I mean, the audacity of pushing into your country alone if I think about it awhile is nuts. The colonialism they imposed upon your country has definitely made a negative impact, and colonialism contributed to a lot of poor treatment of women. Generally the oppressed will become the oppressor.. kick the cat syndrome, if you will. The Pakistani men no doubt felt oppressed by the English and paid it forward. The whole world has this hatred of women, and must change course, however. Men think that our primary role is to be a whipping boy for their own shortcomings and insecurities. That’s what I truly believe, but again the the white men, coming into countries they have no business coming into, making things a lot worse than they already were is a huge problem. Wouldn’t you agree? I’m sorry to have offended you. I feel awful. Best of luck to you!

[–]LoudAdeptness_2FDS Newbie 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have dealt more racism from my own countrymen and even my family, I'm Balistani ony mothers side(Baltis are a Tibetic ethnic group in Pakistan) my fathers family are Punjabi Matt's, both my fathers family and general Pakistan society has been openly racist towards me cause of my more east Asian features, "chinky" "dog eater" "chinkstani" and other slurs everyday from the whole class, my Husband is a Afrdi Pashtun and he's dealt with racism and discrimination in Pakistan

Also my people never had a country, we part of the Tibetan empire, then conquered by the Mughals, then the Sikhs, then the English and then we were fought over by the Indians and Pakistanis, this isn't true for all post colonial Nations but for those in the north west Indian subcontinent(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_North-West_Frontier) the English were just one more foreign power

And as stated the English didn't make the people any more misogynistic, men could have as many wives they wanted, men could beat and rape their wives without consequence and its still an issue

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s clear from what you say you are correct. Im so sorry to hear this, and in no way did I mean to make light of your struggle. I wish your people find a place to call their own. You are in my thoughts and prayers. 💕

I worked with a Pakistani man. He wasn’t mean, per say, he was my superior, but definitely there is this weirdness where they talk down to women. Every man does really lol. Women talk down to me lol bc I look young, I guess and make jokes. Another guy I worked with (this was in a pharmacy.) was from Nepal and he was super sexist. Wouldn’t answer to anyone except a man even though our manager was a woman. Why do we deal this shit in 2021🤦‍♀️🙄

[–]LoudAdeptness_2FDS Newbie 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Region of Pakistan is rediculously ethnically diverse, we have pretty much every racial group here from people who can pass as brown, to people who can pass European, and even pretty much every race

We all sorta hate each other as well, we had a State sponsored ethnic genocide in the 70s which led to the deaths of a over a million people and the rapes of hundred's of thousands of women, we Also had ethnic para military death squads killing each other in the 90s

The only reason were kept together is cause of Islam and Islam alone, however if your a non Muslim in this country your basically treated like a sub human by the state

[–]16February2021FDS Newbie 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just want to wear a pretty dress. I'll just marry myself

[–]Iupvoteanimals 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think most women have always known this, it's just that the cultural and political environment has not often been condusive to women having the right to divorce or choose not to marry in the first place.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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