~ archived since 2018 ~

Don't get it twisted; women didn't leave "in the good old days" because they were trapped, not because they were fucking ride or die. We literally had no choice but to put up with abuse and other myriad bullshit. Men cannot stand the fact that we are no longer forced to submit.

January 31, 2021
7045 upvotes
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Title Don't get it twisted; women didn't leave "in the good old days" because they were trapped, not because they were fucking ride or die. We literally had no choice but to put up with abuse and other myriad bullshit. Men cannot stand the fact that we are no longer forced to submit.
Author azureangel35
Upvotes 7045
Comments 98
Date January 31, 2021 2:35 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/dont-get-it-twisted-women-didnt-leave-in-the-good.740752
https://theredarchive.com/post/740752
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/l9dfwt/dont_get_it_twisted_women_didnt_leave_in_the_good/
Comments

[–]Lady_SchmoobleydongFDS Newbie 404 points405 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My friend told me the story of how her grandmother was married at 16 (essentially sold) to a man who beat her up all the time, raped her and beat the children. When he died, long before my friend was born, she immediately sold their farm and all HIS stuff, bought herself some nice luggage and diamond jewelry. Which shows how she felt about him all those years. She’s not a hero or a “good wife” for sticking it out, she was a dependant child bride who had no choice in her life, until she was freed by her awful husband dying from pancreatic cancer.

She married again, but to a man who she chose and was kind to her and she lived happily with him until her death. Ride or die is good in some cases but when a man beats you, rapes you, is cruel to your children, drinks and mismanages all the money, we can leave now when we decide it’s not worth it anymore.

[–]McccyFDS Disciple 149 points150 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm so happy she had a happy ending and took back some of her life. It's depressing to think how many women like her were stuck in similar situations not even long ago only 30-50 years back

[–]crapeescapeFDS Newbie 581 points582 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

I cringe at the thought of everything our sisters had to do back in the day. I remember reading stories of the Oregon Trail and if your husband died you just had to marry whoever to survive. There was no opportunities for women to make a living and you can just imagine how badly they were treated.

[–]LuckyCharmsLassFDS Newbie 431 points432 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

My greatgrandma was 13 when a 45 year old widower that was a friend of her father's, both poor farmers, came and asked for her hand. He needed a wife to keep the household, his sons and field hands fed and laundered, and cleaned up after. And other 'women's work' around the farm. My greatgrandfather.

She had 9 kids from him before he died. Her second husband showed up to help on the farm. He was the town drunk. Abusive. One day he just disappeared. Nobody looked for him, filed a missing persons, missed him or cared. Family legend says she ascribed to a philosophy well known in those parts of the 'civilized world'... Shoot, Shovel and Shut-Up.

She lived to be 97. From about 50 on, she was crazy as a loon. I was afraid of her as a kid.

[–]Davina33FDS Disciple 177 points178 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So heartbreaking. It makes me cry thinking about what our women ancestors went through. My own maternal grandmother had a hard life in Jamaica before she came to England. It didn't get much better over here thanks to my grandfather's philandering. She was only 37 when she died. I'm really sorry to hear about your great grandmother. I've just been arguing elsewhere on the internet against men jumping on help for women victims of domestic to do their usual "wah wah, what about men!" Everything has to be about them, they love silencing us everywhere.

[–]queen_beastmodeFDS Newbie 53 points54 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

My grandmother's first husband (my grandfather) was a drunk and a wife beater, she had six kids, two died in infancy, one was an illegal abortion that almost took her life. I can only imagine what kind of pain and suffering she was going through that she decided to take that route.

She divorced him and had to live on her own while her four kids were traumatized living with him and his new wife who he also beat. Based on my mom's age, she took the divorce route right in the 70's, like ASAP. My mom's first pregnancy was a teen pregnancy. Her step-mom and her father sent her to a camp where teen mothers go to gestate and the counselors coerce the mothers into giving up the baby for adoption. :( I was her first kid born in wedlock.

After her divorce, my grandmother worked really hard to find a new husband and married a rich guy and spent the rest of her life as a kept woman but he didn't beat her and took care of her until he died and left her plenty to care for her until she passed. I think she always missed and regretted not having her children with her, she had an ungodly amount of cute stuff.

My other grandmother was impregnated/raped by a soldier, left her home and everything she knew to come of America-- based on what I know of her home country their child (my uncle) wouldn't have been eligible for citizenship-- her life was a black box to me, she was stranded someplace far away and never returned home. Torn up by her roots. She's passed now as well. If I had been able to know her when I was older (also, my father alienated me from that side of the family when I was a teen because he hated me and wanted control of everything) I would have asked her so many questions, tried to know her. I don't know if anyone ever knew her for the rest of her life.

I feel my ancestors pain every day and I have to live my life on my terms and never take shit from a man. The pain that men cause is written into my DNA. When your grandmother is carrying your mother, she's also carrying half of you in your mom's eggs which are present from birth.

That's the meaning of generational violence. Women carry the seeds and strands of life which is beautiful and mysterious. When men choose to abuse their women and children they're making the choice to trample over three generations at once and spit in the face of creation. That's pure depravity.

[–]LuckyCharmsLassFDS Newbie 25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I try to explain to my daughter how 1st world women in the 21st century are about as free to live their life as they please and dream as women have ever been in human history.

I think it's important to acknowledge how far we've come, and be grateful for the gains made, we could lose them in an instant.

I appreciate how you've described the trauma to generations. I so hope we permanently can rise above.

[–]queen_beastmodeFDS Newbie 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Me too. The crazy thing is that when I was growing up my parents related all this to me but no one could ever acknowledge the that what my grandmothers went through was so awful. It was weird. Cuase I write it all down here and it just sounds horrible.

[–]SoybeanApocalypseFDS Newbie 98 points99 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit

And that is something that men who romanticize the past need to realize, if women get trapped in marriages again, there WILL be women like this again who will do what it takes to live life on their own terms.

[–]madamejesaistoutFDS Newbie 112 points113 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Someone should make a movie about her.

[–]Inevitable_Soft_101FDS Newbie 44 points45 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Wtf did I just read lmaoooo god this would be a great book

[–]rainbowicecoffeeFDS Newbie 16 points17 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Wow these stories make me so grateful for the opportunity I have. The misery my ancestors and the women before me endured can not go down in vain. Imagine how things can be for our daughters and granddaughters. 💖

[–]f_alt04FDS Newbie 18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Our daughters and granddaughters? Climate change really isn’t even a blip on the radar for some of you, is it? We (thanks to science) literally already know what 2050 is going to look like, god forbid 2070. Constant and massive climate catastrophes, global economic collapse, mass migrations of billions of people, people literally killing their neighbors for food or to protect their own resources. I can only imagine how unpopular this will be in a sub that seems very pro-reproduction, but the best thing you can do for your daughters or granddaughters is not have them. If you think the world is going to be amazing and full of opportunity for your kids and grandkids, I’m sorry, but we are far past that point. They will suffer immensely.

[–]4BigDataFDS Newbie 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even in the US, not every area will be drastically affected. I already moved out of the West in anticipation of its water scarcity and annual mega fires.

[–]alivebut-justbarelyFDS Apprentice 493 points494 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

I also think people who talk about how no one stays together anymore don't understand how hard it actually is to make the decision to end a marriage. It's not like people do it after one fight. Personally, divorcing my ex husband was one of the hardest choices I ever made because I still loved him but it was obvious he was never going to change. Three years later, he still hasn't, but I'm flourishing. But according to these idiots I should have stayed with him forever.

[–]spicyspaFDS Newbie 159 points160 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. My decision trajectory was about 4 years. 4 years prior my final notice, I made up my mind if certain things didn't improve and they didn't.

[–]WildUnitFDS Newbie 101 points102 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nothing infuriates me more than smug bitches on FB who post that nauseating meme about why marriages don’t last (because it the old days, you didn’t throw broken things out, you fixed them). Always posted by some humblebrag mole skiting about their “fabulous” marriage. (social media fabulous, that is).

I always want to say - most people work damn hard to make relationships work and often long past the point where they really should have left.

It’s guilt like this that makes women stay in dysfunctional marriages - thinking others will judge them for not “trying hard enough”. Knowing when to quit is just as big a skill set as tenacity and perseverance.

[–]GalactoseGalFDS Newbie 65 points66 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The same people who asked me why I didn't try harder to make my marriage work, also insist that they "would never put up with that" when I describe what actually went down living with my ex husband. So which is it, guys?

[–]4BigDataFDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

why I didn't try harder to make my marriage work

I already have 2 jobs, not willing to take on more work.

[–]f_alt04FDS Newbie 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you’re worried about others judging you for anything, that’s the biggest problem. That will hold you back your entire life - and over something so stupid, the ideas that other people (who are mostly total and complete idiots) have? I honestly can’t imagine caring about judgment from others over how I live my life for a single second. Biggest nope ever.

[–]ekkokekekkoFDS Newbie 80 points81 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I knew it was over and it still took me 10 years to leave. My marriage had to go from unhappy to absolutely goddamn terrible before I was able to face the shame of "admitting defeat" to my family and friends. Agreed, people have no idea how hard it is, not to mention how embarrassing and emotional and expensive the process can be. Ending marriage is not an easy decision.

[–][deleted] 99 points100 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Sigh. This is what I’m going through. Divorce sucks even when you’re the one who decides it’s time.

[–]LuckyCharmsLassFDS Newbie 100 points101 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

After my second divorce, I didn't need to do that again. Particularly because I barely dodged paying HIM alimony. That was 28 years ago. I've stuck to my determination to never ever put myself in that position again. I've been single and happy since. If I want to end a relationship now, well, bye boy.

[–]QueenPondorkisThrowaway Account 53 points54 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Same here Fade- going through it now. I’ve also had family/friends comment things like, “You don’t seem very upset”; what they don’t know is that I was living with severe depression for the last 10 years because of his emotional abuse. I cried enough and making the decision to divorce has finally made me feel whole again.

[–]zombieeezzzFDS Newbie 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wishing you healing <3

[–]MisLaDonna 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, it took me WAY too long to get out of my marriage, maybe 15 years?, but I am flurisishing and oh so happy now! He was a really nice guy and we are still friends. Totally worth the suffering.

[–]McccyFDS Disciple 254 points255 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

My great grandmother was married at 11 to a 50 year old man who raped her and left her pregnant at 13 (after God knows how many misscariages) he made her work at his fields along with his other slaves till she was 8months for punishment. She was crying to her neighbours, the priest, the workers, no one ever helped her and always told her she was lucky cause he was rich.

He died when she was 15 where she escaped the very next night with my baby grandmother to an women only village without even taking any of her stuff with her.

Women back in the days suffered. Most of them had awful lives and men hate they can't keep doing that.

[–]azureangel35FDS Apprentice[S] 118 points119 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh my word, your poor great grandmother 😭 We need to remember their suffering, if for no other reason than to never, ever let our own boundaries, that we're privileged to have, waver.

[–]used-booksFDS Newbie 59 points60 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Tell us more about this woman only village!

What county? What approximate time period?

[–]McccyFDS Disciple 84 points85 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I was raised there actually! It was in Greece Corfu, near an area named Lefkimi. It didn't really have a name and we didn't have addresses. We were only 100 or so people, but we still had an elementary (if you wanted more education you had to go to Athens or at another city) and cafes and places to eat.

We build our own houses and furniture with wood and we were all taught how to build and how take care of plants and animals and how to make our own stuff (clothes, shoes, bread, cheese etc)

It was only-women cause they all send their boys and their husbands away to cities, so the boys would go to junior high and high school and the women were left 'behind'. At 1940s (when my great grandmother came there) it was used to hide women and girls from the Germans (many were killed/raped/taken for wives) since it was hidden by olive trees and rocky roads.

I never saw a man till I was 12-13 tbh, when I met my brother and father at 13 I was shocked 😂

Around 2015 all of us were gone, since we were offered money by companies who wanted to build hotels and turn the area into a tourist area. I haven't been back since then since I don't really want to see how the area has ended up in person. I sometimes feel bad that my dad sold our place there, but at the same time I'm glad I was able to get an education and to meet my brother :)

[–]Fun_SherbetFDS Apprentice 32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I would love to read more about your experience growing up there!!

[–]McccyFDS Disciple 66 points67 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sure, I love remembering my time there!

We were getting up around 7:00 for school we had till 12:00, we later went to the square we had with a fountain like construction to meet our moms where they washed clothes and waved new fabrics, we were send to some fields where the women there had eggs and olive oil and we carried it back home to our moms where we ate.

At afternoon I played with my friends at the fields where we had animals like sheeps and donkeys and small chickens, we would pretend to be warriors or Amazons or fairies, climbing on trees and making baskets from wood strips to put whatever flowers we found to dry them and put them into books.

When it got dark we'd go back to the town square cafe to eat something and If it was warm enough our moms brought big cushions and we slept outside.

We had school till Saturday so every Sunday we woke up from 9:00 and went to a house where we were taught how to sew and make shoes or something building related for the older girls.

At winter we'd go with our moms and help them with collecting the olives and make olive oil and learn how to make thick coats, jackets and blankets from wool :)

[–]4BigDataFDS Newbie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

to an women only village

Can I come!?

[–]AriaLuzFDS Apprentice 303 points304 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

People don’t understand. Your grandmother wanted to leave and hated your grandfather. She stayed because she had no Choice or options to leave because he monopolized her life. Her family also never helped. She couldn’t work, have her own bank account, couldn’t own her own property, and divorce wasn’t legal. So your grandma and great grandmother had to deal with physical abuse, emotional abuse, marital rape, his second family on the other side of town, his bastard child from the lady next door, being a servant, and not having any control over her life. I guess no one researched that a lot of women went crazy in that time. They were always drinking and taking pills too. But no one looks at that.

At 30 I just found out how terrible the men in my family are as partners. Everyone always says that their dad and their uncles were great men YEEESS TO YOU! Because you’re his daughter or niece or cousin. Did you ever think how they treated their wives or girlfriends? They treated them horrible. That’s why I don’t believe the “not all men” bullshit because you don’t deal with them the way another deals with them.

[–]InayahDaneenFDS Newbie 94 points95 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This 💯 My own brother wishes for a time where women were treated as second class citizens or property. I feel bad for the woman that ends up with him..unless she is willing to discard the pickmeisha cape and hear me out without ratting to him.

[–]InayahDaneenFDS Newbie 98 points99 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This 💯 My own brother wishes for a time where women were treated as second class citizens or property.

[–]EveSerpentFDS Newbie 45 points46 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Right?! I can’t stand when women talk about how great their fathers are and they don‘t say a single word about their own mothers—the ones who actually raised them—or even mention what their mothers think about their own husbands.

[–]MarriedWithPizzaFDS Disciple 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I absolutely agree with you. But let’s not ignore that women can also be bad people. I have an issue with my father, because he is terrible. But a majority of my close girlfriends have terrible mothers that have done things I could never imagine a parent could do. I believe it must be the area I’m living, it’s a small town with a bunch of drugged people.

[–]EveSerpentFDS Newbie 22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure but I am going to ignore it, because this conversation is about husbands and the women who are trapped in marriage with them. Not mothers. That’s a different subject and taking the focus off of calling out men to focus on women is done far too often. It lets them get away with too much. Many posts could be made about issues with mothers, but this is not one of them.

[–]wolf_townPickmeisha™️ 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes it’s important to acknowledge that good fathers does not equate to good husbands.

[–]spicyspaFDS Newbie 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly.

[–]__kamikaze__FDS Newbie 174 points175 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They “lasted” because women had no other choice! 🤦‍♀️

[–]Altowhovian93FDS Newbie 152 points153 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Marital rape was not fully outlawed in the US until the 1990s. No fault divorce was not passed in all states until 2010. Women are still not guaranteed alimony and child support, you have to file them and then they still have to track down the dad and then he has to be legally working for them to be able to garnish his paychecks. It’s not standing by your man if you have no choice but to stay!

[–]P00L_ACID 108 points109 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

My father did that. He grew up rich, had an education and a great city job. One day, he decided he didn’t want a family anymore. He left, refused custody of the 3 of us and then avoided work until I turned 18. He survived by living with his wealthy mother, eventually inheriting her money and I haven’t spoken to him in almost 20 years. He didn’t use drugs, didn’t physically abuse us, we never heard about an affair or any other women. Just didn’t wanna. Meanwhile, my mom who had moved to America without speaking English, managed to get her masters degree while working a full time job. She cooked up fresh food everyday and kept the house spotless. How?! QUEEN.

[–]Altowhovian93FDS Newbie 39 points40 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s what’s frustrating. Because the the non custodial parent refuses to work, the custodial parent still does not get the support they need! And non payment of child support alone is not something that can cease visitation or that parents “right” to have a say in school or medical matters.

[–]JamiepappasatlantaFDS Newbie 30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My dad was a spoiled brat. He was emotionally abusive and cheated on my mom all while they were married. My mom left him when I was 2. He never paid any child support for me and my sister. We struggled and barely could pay the bills while he lived the life of a merry bachelor. Men are scumbags.

[–]maddog1111111 25 points26 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They literally just outlawed it in MN last year!

[–]4BigDataFDS Newbie 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Marital rape was not fully outlawed in the US until the 1990s

A white upper middle class man in his mid-50s recently told me that husbands cannot rape their wives, they belong to them.

[–]MorepaperpleaseFDS Newbie 119 points120 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Women couldn’t open a checking account or own a credit card without their husbands permission in 1970...thank rbg for this.. just think about that..your grandmothers is who fought this fight.

[–]souredskittlesFDS Disciple 49 points50 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

God bless them, I feel bad they suffered HORRIBLY under scrotes.

[–]feeltheweirdFDS Newbie[🍰] 15 points16 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

My grandmother (born 1935) got her own bank account when she was 16 without needing anyone’s permission. This was in CA. I’m sure there are some areas where you couldn’t, but I think it’s important for people who make these kinds of statements to include the details of where this took place.

[–]MorepaperpleaseFDS Newbie 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I grew up in Palo Alto. My mother had to have my step father go to the bank with her to get her checking account. Women could have a checking account but if married, it had to be with husband approval. The law was the law. Not saying that some banks didn’t look the other way. But if ones husband didn’t want their wife to have an account- it certainly wasn’t going to happen. See 1974 Equal Credit Opportunity Act

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.flagshipbanks.com/blog/the-history-of-women-and-banking-thanks-to-rbg%3fhs_amp=true

[–]brainsssszzzzzThrowaway Account 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be more precise: in the United States, there were no Federal banking laws against discriminating on the basis of sex. So while places like California might have put those protections in earlier (in 1862 actually!), for a federal bank, they could (and so often, they would) discriminate.

It wasn't until 1974 that The Equal Credit Protection Act was passed, which made it illegal to deny credit on the basis of sex, marital status, also race, color, national origin, religion, etc.

[–][deleted] 108 points109 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They never think about the quality of the marriage. It’s not a quality marriage if you’re effectively separated in the same house or straight up live apart and date others like couples who weren’t compatible used to do.

[–]KingGeorgeTheeIllest 97 points98 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Short story: My grandmother was one of the first women to work as a bank teller in her tiny town. She worked there her entire life from the 50's to the early 80's. She would tell me stories about women coming in making deposits and managing checkbooks for their husbands but it wasn't legal (and wasn't bank policy after the 70's) to open bank accounts for themselves. She told me that over the course of 30 years she had to forge documents and meet with her friends and regulars after hours to help them get bank accounts in secret. Since this was a small town, she would tell me about women who were known to be in abusive, or arranged relationships, that would come in clearly miserable or battered, and she would find ways to signal to them that she had the means to help them. Not only did everyone know this was happening, but they still refused these women any banking services that didn't relate to her husband's finances. The last story I remember her telling me about working at the bank had to do with a woman who was a regular wanting to leave town. My grandmother and her two friends who she was able to get hired as tellers with her, were able to open her an account in secret, and crowdsource a little money for her to help her get out of town. I've never told this story before, but there are men that need to understand this.

[–]Phoenix__Rising2018Ruthless Strategist 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should make this a post. Seriously. We need to know.

[–]favoritesoundFDS Newbie 156 points157 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

“Serious question. Why don’t a whole bunch of black people work for free and not vote anymore like they used to?”

[–]relationship_redditFDS Newbie 133 points134 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

And I wonder why they last as long as they do now.

Divorce is legal. Why are you trying so hard to work things out with a man who cheated on you with 5 different women, thinks you're gross because you don't look like a pornstar and have stretch marks from pregnancy, yet has a beer gut and is balding, never does the laundry, and spends all of your money on video games. Like, if you have the means, just leave. There is no reason anymore to struggle to make things work with someone who you clearly don't get along with.

[–]lrpiccoloFDS Newbie 43 points44 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you have equal incomes it is much easier to leave. If you are married to an unemployed bum you are likely to owe him spousal support even if you don’t have kids. Honestly, looking at having to fork over 40% of my paycheck for the rest of my life really gave me pause. You can leave the marriage but the financial consequences follow you around forever. All the more reason to vet with extreme care, and leave as soon as things go south, because consequences for leaving long-term marriages are much more severe. Do NOT stay around for the kids-that’ll come back to bite you in the rear.

[–]f_alt04FDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So don’t marry an unemployed bum. That’s very obvious step 0 type stuff - never legally put yourself in a financial contract with someone who has no financial stability or even employment. I would hope most women know better than that.

[–]lrpiccoloFDS Newbie 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you’d think. He was making a six-figure salary when we got married then promptly quit his job after our kid was born. But of course I kept paying for daycare while I was at work because he was going to get another job “Any day now.” Back in 2001.

[–]tinysilverstarFDS Newbie 62 points63 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This woman I know Mrs. E (F77) is my mother's friend's mother. Mrs. E and her siblings were put in an orphanage when her mother got a divorce. Even if you managed to get a divorce, you had to give up your kids or likely starve. Mrs. E ended up married and pregnant by 15.

[–]f_alt04FDS Newbie 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My grandma divorced the deadbeat alcoholic who left in the middle of the night in 1961 in Michigan and raised her three kids (who were aged 2, 1, and a baby at the time). She worked and must have had her own bank account. She’s 81 now. Perhaps her father was able to sign for her to complete necessary financial transactions? I’m not sure, I’ll have to ask my aunt.

[–]WatzooFDS Newbie 60 points61 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I mean, you can google “poison” and “husbands” for a lengthy history of how women handled a world in which they couldn’t divorce their batterers and slavers.

It’s depressing, but it is recorded history. Nothing ride or die about it, though.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One might argue the men in these marriages were the ride or die 😉

[–]jackrusselterror1FDS Disciple 25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. Adding to your comment: look up Giulia Tofana, who created and sold poisons to women trapped in abusive marriages. She disguised her poison in a perfume bottle, since men, especially police men, wouldn’t closely examine a woman’s cosmetics. Additionally most poison deaths during when she was active were easily mistaken as spoiled food, the flu, or a stomach ailment, so it’s doubtful that all of the men that she assisted in poisoning were looked into as homicide anyway. Even when they were, one of the (very few) benefits of sexism was that many men just would not consider women to be capable of preplanned murder especially to such a large degree, which made it easier for women who needed to escape a relationship where their life was in danger without getting incarcerated. Had a customer not gone to police, she would have remained undetected.

[–]killyergawds 63 points64 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My grandma was married at 17 and divorced by 21. She had a good paying job with the police department, but she still wasn't able to buy herself a fucking car because she didn't have a father (dead) or a husband to sign the paperwork for her. And that was in the early SEVENTIES. And it wasn't some backwoods town either, it was a dealership in San Francisco.

[–]dak4f2FDS Newbie 34 points35 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This explains when I bought my first car in the 2010s and the much older woman who was the wife of the dealer sat down next to me, shocked that I was buying a car on my own. I didn't understand what the big deal was.

My jaw is on the floor now.

How many things will the next generations of women take for granted? What will those things be? Probably leadership positions in companies, but not sure what else.

[–]Summoning-FreaksFDS Newbie 123 points124 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

And don’t forget how divorce would’ve resulted in a woman becoming a social pariah, yet it would still have been her duty to care for and raise the children somehow.

The length of those marriages aren’t valid if the woman only stayed because she had no other option of survival and she had kids who’s well-being she put above hers.

[–]raginghappy 26 points27 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In a lot of places -still- leaving your marriage also means leaving your children. Not really a choice to leave for many women if they have to leave their kids

[–]blacklama 55 points56 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My grandfather, a small town physician in the 50s, said it clearly: many women would die early from childbearing and child rearing exhaustion, so men would marry again, usually with a younger woman and restart the cycle.

There was rarely enough time or energy to leave, and if there was, many children and financial dependence would lock the door anyway.

[–]McccyFDS Disciple 45 points46 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No surprise sadly.. grown women in their 30s die from childbirth, imagine an underdeveloped literal child aged 10-15..

[–]ivy176FDS Disciple 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I had NO romantic or sexual feelings for my ex husband for YEARS before it ended. People assume you stay in an abusive relationship because it was thrilling and you were addicted to it. Wtf no. I viewed him as a problematic child who was my responsibility and nothing more. I felt pressured by the marriage vows, by religion and the fear of upheaval of my entire life when I was barely able to get through each day. Asshole men on reddit use women like me to prove that "women like bad boys" and that we are attracted to assholes, yet they never even consider that most abused women are not attracted to or in love with their abusive partners. They can't fathom that kind of sacrificial life or being in a relationship when it doesn't benefit you at all.

And that's in the 2000s - women who came before me couldn't leave for many other reasons.

[–]hdost34FDS Newbie 54 points55 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women were not allowed to sit at bars prior to the 70s either. At least that’s how it was in Connecticut.

[–]WornTheTshirt73FDS Newbie 51 points52 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Unfortunately, there is a massive push in the West to disempower women. Men are not enjoying giving space to women, having to view us as human, having to earn our respect , time and labour. If we let them, they will take us back to the 1900s, so watch carefully for stealth social and cultural movements which masquerade as inclusive and progressive, but undermine women’s rights.

[–]f_alt04FDS Newbie 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Like “call her daddy” liberal-“feminism”... straight up misogynistic, getting women to do what men want them to do while convincing women it’s what they want. Fucking awful.

[–]PollyAnnaSunshineFDS Newbie 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Marriage in the good old days wasn't a choice. Let alone staying married.

Great g-ma on my dad's side was essentially adopted by another family because her parents couldn't afford to keep her and married off to my great grandfather at age 14 (he was 28). They were in America and he could not speak English yet but she could so she handled all the banking/finance things from what we know of and was very close with her children, all sons. She died in her late 60s due to gallbladder surgery and her dying wish was that her eldest son, my grandfather, would take care of his little brother because she feared how her husband would cope without her. Word from my grandpa and great uncle was that her husband loved her more than she loved him and was devastated when she died.

Another great g-ma was widowed, and emigrated to the USA from Italy with her 9 year old. She married out of necessity to another Italian when she arrived here, worked as a seamstress, and took care of her stepchildren as well as had more children with her new husband. He was reported to be abusive (at least verbally but who knows if it did not go further). My grandmother has a book of her letters saved and many of them are quite sad. It is clear that for her, marriage was a survival mechanism. She saw to it that all of her children were well educated and even many of the daughters went to college which was very unusual back then.

Another great grandmother was widowed when my grandpa was 2 and his brother who was only days old. Her first husband was handsome and reputed to be a kind and gentle person, unfortunately the man she remarried to was cruel and abusive to her children and probably to her. She became abusive to them as well and my grandfather didn't mention his growing up much but from the few things he said I can tell it was very sad. He was doing hard manual work as a young child.

Finally, my last great grandmother was married to a pretty nice man from what we all know, but she did a lot of manual labor and hard work, as did he. They experienced grinding poverty in the great depression. Even if he had been abusive, how would she have left? The little money the family had was brought in by her husband and she had 9 children. She developed dementia and died pretty young. My mother describes her as gentle and lovely.

Even in the best of these stories, these women did not have it easy, and were left with little choice but to put up with less than ideal behavior from their husbands. I definitely had this in the back of my mind when I walked away from my wedding a few years ago, noticing some poor character in my ex. In today's world I have the choice to be alone until a man who meets my standards come along, and I want to honor my foremothers who endured so much so that I could be here today and have that choice.

[–]EveSerpentFDS Newbie 45 points46 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I had a dollar for every man who moons over his grandparents being married for their entire adult lives, I‘d be doing very well. Whenever some guy says this as if it’s a positive thing, my sympathies go right to the grandmother. If I try to point out that she didn’t have a choice to leave, they guy always gets a dumb look on his face before he goes into denial. As if he’d know anything about their daily lives and actual relationship. The stupidity is shocking.

[–]davisgirl44FDS Newbie 33 points34 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Probably goes a long way toward explaining the derision for sex workers too. What else was a woman to do? If I hear one more dead hooker “joke”...

[–]asteroidvestaFDS Newbie 23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

My therapist once told me that marriage is a patriarchal construct that was designed to protect men’s assets. She explained that children had always belonged to women alone, until men began to acquire property and wanted to be sure they only passed it along to their offspring - they accomplished this by marrying women and closely guarding their sexuality. I was very young at the time, and I’m not enough of a historian or anthropologist to look into it, but it would explain a lot. I find being single and raising my son alone much more natural for me than dealing with my ex husbands’ nonsense. Maybe marriage has always been a trap for women.

[–]MargotteLFDS Newbie 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wispers: "Aqua Tofana"

[–]Sadplankton15FDS Newbie 28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw a post on Reddit yesterday, and it was of someone’s grandparents who had been together for 70-75 years (I can’t remember the exact length), and all I could think was “I wonder how much bullshit she’s had to deal with in that time”. Everyone was saying “goals” “this is how it should be” “what a perfect couple”, but that guy could’ve literally thrown copious amounts of shit at her and she wouldn’t have been able to leave. Really rubbed me the wrong way that there wasn’t a single comment about it. Ugh

[–]kaoutanuFDS Apprentice 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No-fault divorce simply wasn't a thing until relatively recently. Before that you had to prove one of the three "A"s - abuse, addiction, or adultery - in order for the court to even consider granting you a divorce. You also had to place an ad detailing the whole thing in a newspaper declaring the reason you wanted a divorce, I guess so any busybodies could have their 2c worth. Even then the court might tell you to suck it up and stick it out.

My mother's first husband literally left her and my brother and moved to another country, and started a family with another woman, and she still wasn't granted a divorce, even after meeting my father and having me. She died married to a loser who had left her destitute years earlier.

[–]f_alt04FDS Newbie 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My grandma divorced the deadbeat alcoholic who left and abandoned her & her three children (one of those being my mom) in the middle of the night in 1961. He ran off to Ohio from Michigan and never, ever paid a cent. She worked and took care of her three young kids (all born one year apart - 1958, 1959, 1960) completely on her own, not only as a Catholic but in a time when everyone would have looked down on her for being divorced. I truly don’t know how she - and my mom, when my sperm donor abandoned us - did it, but I am so grateful and so proud to be a descendant of Independent Queens. It taught me that I don’t need a man, I can be happy and single like the women who raised me were, and that most likely a man would cause me more trouble and work and stress than he would anything positive - I’ve always been happy on my own and never desperate for a relationship and always focused on myself and doing what I can to make my mom (who passed away when I was 19) and grandma and aunt (who also raised three kids alone after divorcing the loser she reproduced with) proud. I saw what men did to these amazing beautiful strong women in my life and decided they would never get a chance to do that to me - in their honor I ride or die for myself.

[–]Yeah_hey_kittycatFDS Newbie 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

One of my first moments “waking up” to the truth was when I learned in a “Family Studies” course in college that until the 1970’s it WASNT ILLEGAL TO BEAT YOUR WIFE! Literally. Only when a law was finally passed in the 1970’s that finally stated that it was a crime to beat your wife. 🤬

[–]ReignOnYou95 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah well marital rape was legal until 1993 so..

[–]Mella_20FDS Newbie 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ugh I used to ask these questions tho. I can't believe I used to think that the olden days were better because women stayed in their marriages 😦

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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