how can I spot LVM Chameleons 🦎 👀

leadmemories · 2020-12-22T22:45:23+00:00

from absolutely everything i’ve read within this reddit- there IS no way to spot some.. that’s why it’s so scary. we just need to be ready to support ourselves financially and mentally if the moment arises where we do sadly find out that our HVM after 5, 10, whatever years.. turns out not to be

Hampered-Siren · 2020-12-22T23:34:47+00:00

I think telling you that they love you before they even really know you is the biggest one I have seen. Rushing to get a committment tells you they are looking for a person to fulfill a roll in their lives more than loving YOU personally.

Liars - If they lie about little things, they lie about big things

Stealing - Anything

Blowing holidays, birthdays, Valentines etc. shows shallow and selfish

Filthy house and or filthy car, low personal hygiene in any sort of way.

Showing up late, or not at all shows disrespect and selfishness

Not being able to discuss calmly issues that come up, or not being emotionally supportive when you are not feeling well or down

Monologuing or fantical on any subject

Driving: Are they an agressive driver, speeding, tailgaiting, cutting people off?

Selfish lover, premature ejaculator, takes way too long, ignores your needs etc Personally I am not ever dating someone who has to be on the little blue pill - it's different if you have been together for five or ten years and he needs it, but basically shows health issues or pornsick

Narcissistic tells: "I'm an asshole", "I don't deserve you", etc

Any felonies or excessive tickets.

Poor financial management, living way above their means or way below their means. Asking to borrow money - NO-NO-NO, do not ever give a man money. He should have family or friends to help him if he is a decent person.

You are looking for high effort, concientousness, high morals, reliable, honest, and very empathetic at all times, watch for cracks in this no matter how small. At the very beginning of dating they should be on their very best behavior, any dips unless they are abjectly sorry and it never happens again should be HUGE red flags.

GlitteringContact8 · 2020-12-22T22:57:45+00:00

So many disappoint. It is really hard to process. The only solution is to remain as independent as possible at every stage and to never throw caution into the wind. Which will be super hard once kids get in the mix. My plan is accumulate gold and then adopt or foster first so I have everything I want or need without a man and it‘s in my name ONLY, so that when a man shows up and turns sour he cant take my autonomy away.

RiasXgremoryX · 2020-12-22T23:04:28+00:00

To be honest I don't think there's any way to be %100 sure of a man's true intentions. The only advice I can give for this is to leave at the first tiny red flag, don't wait around for the next one or a bigger one, many men start introducing bad behavior/abuse to women in small doses to see how much we'll tolerate and because its harder to catch when it immediately happens. "Oh he's just having a bad day!" or "he just doesn't feel good today, he wont do it again" is what most women tell themselves when a man shows his true colors for a brief moment. We believe we're "overreacting or being too emotional/sensitive", but that's not true always listen to your gut.

Secondly, always have a plan B(back up money/savings account, another place to go, your own career/job) so that just in case the worst happens you'll be prepared no matter what he decides to do, and most importantly never ever stop the vetting process, its ongoing.

ferociouslycurious · 2020-12-23T03:48:24+00:00

There’s a reason many MUCH older women from a very different time have told younger women to have their own secret cash stash. It’s because of what you don’t know. Humans are too variable to reliably predict this behavior change.

mutatedoctopus · 2020-12-23T02:27:10+00:00

It’s a good idea to look at his other relationships. How does he talk about his parents? Does he have siblings, sibling in-laws, nieces and nephews? How about close friendships? Eventually, we all should have the history talk, and we can find out about past relationships, how long they lasted, and why they ended. I have an ex who was at first attentive, loving, and giving and seemingly HVM, but the red flags showed in the bare minimum attention he paid to his family (rarely called or visited his Dad despite a good relationship, didn’t attend his “favorite” cousin’s wedding for no reason other than he didn’t want to). And soon, I became that bare-minimum girlfriend. He would invite me over and I would sit on his sofa, twiddling my thumbs and thinking about how productive I could be while he puttered around his apartment.

EclecticBarbarella · 2020-12-23T03:52:16+00:00

I kind of watched this play out with my besties relationship, she found out eight years in that he was cheating on her with hookers for at least the last four years of the relationship. We all were kind of blindsided but I realized in retrospect that while there weren’t any overt signs that he was doing that (following IG models, making comments about other women, sexual issues from known excessive porn, hiding his phone use, etc) there were definitely a lot of small signs that were swept aside with “boys will be boys”.

She was always the one driving the relationship forward, he proposed because she basically told him “it’s been 5 years, if I don’t have a ring on my finger this time next year, I’m leaving”. He didn’t actively participate in the relationship, he didn’t take initiative to do things for them, or do spontaneous things to express his love for her (outside of the required dinner on their anniversary, saying ILY when she said it first, things like that). He didn’t manage his diagnosed anxiety, or put effort into improving himself, he would only go to the doctor when she would basically force him because it was getting noticeably worse. A lot of small things that now (especially with an FDS lens) make more sense because he was largely checked out of the relationship and doing his own thing, but “loved” her enough to want to come home to her.

This is why I’m such a big proponent of having standards and making sure the guy is 100% involved and up to snuff. Not to say that this 100% guarantees it, there are some psychopaths that can play both sides still and it’s hard to spot. But in the few times I’ve witnessed this, it often was the culmination of a lot of teeny tiny red flags that were ignored that actually showed the larger LVM picture.

But I also agree with the other commenters in that even when he seems 100% HVM, never get to the point where you lose enough of yourself that you can’t walk away if the facade slips. Marriage and pregnancy tend to bring out the worst because they think we’re committed and won’t leave. Regardless of him, I don’t think it’s healthy for us.

EffectiveHoneydew422 · 2020-12-23T06:11:42+00:00

stop looking for the signs in THEM and identify the signs in YOU that let your guard down- or work on any general pickmesha traits, work on your own boundary setting, and find a base line of happiness in your independence and individuality. The LVM will all be a different chameleon depending on the target. The only way to avoid them is to not be attractive to them.

circescircus · 2020-12-23T00:02:54+00:00

"HVM" is basically just a decent man who views women as people, isn't predatory, isn't brainwashed by porn and social media, has a sense of responsibility, is fair and empathetic. HVM is the average woman, most pickmes if they were men, would be HVM. It's not that hard for a man to be a HVM, it is also very easy to fake. Especially when life is rosy/good, it is very easy. It takes a while to thoroughly fact check, to know what you are signing up for. Knowing his family background and dynamics is key. How a man is raised by his family, is usually how he will be when he is an adult. People don't really change.

I consider my husband to be a HVM, I wouldn't have married him otherwise. But I will say, if I acted like a typical pickme pandering to him and blowing smoke up his ass, he could easily become entitled and perhaps degrade into a LVM. I'm not a ball buster, but yeah, I wouldn't have married a guy who freaks out or stonewalls me when I call him out, tell him he's wrong, or when I defend myself. Right now, he is brining a goose for Christmas, preparing all the sides. He asked me what kind of champagne I want for New years, I'm not cooking anything for the holidays except for baking some sugar cookies. He also cleaned the bathrooms, did some last minute shopping and he just did laundry. Like people see that shit, and they think "Wow what kind of unicorn did you marry", but there is behind the scenes work and mental shit I do. He was never the type that felt entitled to a woman slaving over him on the holidays, he genuinely enjoys cooking, I don't go out of my way to keep the house 100% clean all the time, and when there are messes, he cleans them up. If I acted like a pickme and was like "No baby, you don't know what you're doing LOL, let me cook the goose and do everything. You just sit there and watch TV or take a nap, relax" I'm pretty sure he would take me up on the offer, why wouldn't he? His mom also was never like that with him, she taught him housework, cooking, life skills etc from a young age, she didn't raise him to be entitled. So it really depends on how a guy is raised too, what he thinks is normal or not. A guy with a pickme mom and sisters is a lost cause, guaranteed to be a LVM.

backforbeskar · 2020-12-23T00:08:53+00:00

I think HVM/LVM are constructs. People are dynamic and constantly changing. I think one of the best ways to maintain the status quo in a relationship is to have high self esteem, take care of yourself FIRST. Because men believe actions, not words. If they see you treat yourself like a queen they will follow your lead. Second, reward good behavior and punish bad behavior. If they are not doing their part, dont pick up the slack. When my SO starts neglecting his end of the work or stops giving me attention I make sure I am so busy with my work and recreational activities that he doesn’t get any of my time or attention either.

All HVM have the potential to be LVM if you simply leave things up to them.

souredskittles · 2020-12-23T03:22:03+00:00

Dude. For those, if your following fds. There’s literally no way. Sometimes people do change (unfortunately for the worse, because self improvement is difficult) and you just have to remember you did nothing wrong, you were just felt with the wrong hand.

I think if the mask falls in 1 year he was def faking but if it’s after years and years, he probably did genuinely change.

I have to repeat what one of our RS mentioned. For things like that you may over looked some things in the beginning. Some flags are hard to spot since it goes of on intuition and reading micro mannerisms.

sstena · 2020-12-23T15:08:10+00:00

I am personally much more inclined to believe that women discard their own intuition and ignore the red flags.

And then the dude does something in the same line he's always done just big enough it can't be swept under the rug anymore. And people act surprised when they should just accept their bad judgment and move on instead of pretending the red flags weren't there.

bareasscontessa · 2020-12-23T03:09:01+00:00

You know, I have no answer...but I’ll say an ex contacted me today and I was very cold and short. He wanted to know If I was still mad months after the split.

No. I’m not mad at you. I feel nothing for you. Hate is just a perversion of love. I don’t care if you live or die.

What I AM angry at, is that a good one could sweep in right now and do everything right, and for minimum one year id be withdrawn with my guard up. That’s why these men make me so furious. It’s easy to spot the Fuckboys, But these creatures who wait patiently and earn trust just to blow it to smithereens???

Burn them at the stake

jp2117515 · 2020-12-22T23:52:45+00:00

Reminds me of Something about Mary - they all were! Every single man

romantickitty · 2020-12-22T23:53:06+00:00

tbf, I meet most guys through OLD so maybe they're just more obviously LVM. But I have yet to come across a master manipulator. I think there are always signs if you're willing to look for them.

Jaymite · 2020-12-23T01:04:01+00:00

You should be ready to leave when the red flags appear. Also, listen to your gut.

warinmymind94 · 2020-12-23T08:38:30+00:00

someone said "you have to be ready to walk out / divorce at the drop of a hat" and that was one of the best things ive read about this type of thing.

ive been having fears and even stopped dating and recently learned my grandpa who I thought was HV was actually depraved, controlling, and abolsultely nasty to my grandmother his entire life very NVM! I'm terrified. ive always feared that one day I'll wake up next to the man that I thought was HV, vetted, and married and one day he looses that look in his eyes when he sees me -ive seen it in a lot of my past relationships, that one day happens and they loose interest and its all goes downhill fast. when I was dating while using FDS, I barely even had any dates let alone get 2nd dates id delete and block at the first red flags. im tired of feeling depressed, or wasting my time, or ending up paying a therapist to help me get through the heartbreak from LVMs

Emergency-Feed8216 · 2020-12-23T17:52:51+00:00

Men who periodically seem "checked out"-- aka, dissociated.

It's a red flag that commonly gets forgiven since women are trained to nervously fill in gaps in conversation, project into emotional blanks and let men "drift" and be in their man cave, whatever. Especially if the guy otherwise seems to do everything right, dissociation can be a missed cue.

Men who are perpetually "on" like Jack Russell terriers can turn out to be really problematic, but the gallant space cadets can fly under the radar. In the documentary American Murder on the Chris Watts case, Watts showed other red flags and LVM traits like his financial issues and the appearance that his wife was doing too much and he had to be led by the nose to fulfill basic family responsibilities, plus the fact he was a serial cheater, but his general polite-but-spacey demeanor is spot on.

A guy spacing out when he's physically exhausted or ill, lost a job or his dog or dad died is one thing. But not-infrequent 50 yard stares, dopey gaps in conversation which stand out in a person who is normally more expressive, inability to explain what he's lost in thought about, or turtling up and going blank and monosyllabic when in intense emotional conversations can be the clinical profile for personality disorder (take your pick of them).

Dissociation is a serious artifact of unresolved childhood trauma carried into adulthood. These are the types that may start out helpful, responsible and sweet as pie, but then may be triggered by random events in the future-- a parent's death, birth of a child, aging, accident, promotion, etc.-- and suddenly become monstrous. They may start cheating, form full-blown addictions out of the blue, become verbally or even physically abusive.

When I was an advocate for DV survivors we called the type a "Señor Buttercup" or "Manchurian candidate."

janatztxcxxx · 2020-12-23T03:22:58+00:00

There is strategy you can do to spot them.

Don’t have sex Don’t pay Make him initiate conversations and plan dates

Time_Attention_1182 · 2020-12-23T04:12:14+00:00

Look, people CHANGE . HVM become LVM LVM become HVM ( DISCLAIMER : NO, NOT BECAUSE OF YOU, OR FOR YOU!!!!)

The rule of life is that PEOPLE change, so don’t lower your standards because they were ONCE HVM , and vice versa.

The only constant of life is change. They aren’t chameleons, they are people . And people change .

I ve seen women gain weight, let go of their standards because somehow now that they are married they become a sort of pickmeisha to the marriage.

Being a HVW is something inside you that shouldn’t change with circumstances or people. But please remember, people DO change.

Edit to add: the only guarantee is your OWN self love and OWN self trust. Trust that you WILL overcome whatever challenge might arise.

Does that mean to be stressed on edge? Hell no! Enjoy the present, take in all the blessings of a healthy hvm relationship, but the future is unknown, let it be, and trust in yourself moving forward. You CAN be fully present and fully aware that shit can change.

AnnieandFish · 2020-12-23T15:06:32+00:00

Their friends should know who in their group is acting different. I had a guy ask what to do after the few months when he was no longer trying to impress a new SO not long after I met him. I have to get to know her better after COVID, but it sounds like his current girlfriend has done all of the pushing to advance in the relationship, and I will chew his ass out if he tries to maintain something he’s ambivalent about just to have a girl around while he balds.

That having been said, there’s dumb fox in the FDS handbook, and paying attention to how he treats other people while you’re on dates. That, and watch out for anything below your standards. Sometimes you have to end things with no explanation to keep people from improving as chameleons.

Most importantly, don’t blame yourself for not knowing what you hadn’t learned at any given time. If you couldn’t spot a liar, you weren’t creating the dishonestly in that situation.

Papaverinum · 2020-12-28T14:29:37+00:00

IMO, people can't fake real genuine concern for your well-being if they don't actually care.

What does he do when you're sick or in any other need of medical assistance? Does he help you, offer to look after you, bring some food etc? Or does he just ask "how are you?" or does nothing at all? How does he react when he sees you struggle in any way?

Does he remember stuff you told him? Or do you have to remind him again and again?

HVM who wants to be with you won't risk your relationship in any way.

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Title	how can I spot LVM Chameleons 🦎 👀
Author	greenteaapplepie69
Upvotes	162
Comments	38
Date	December 22, 2020 10:38 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/kifvj2/how_can_i_spot_lvm_chameleons/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/how-can-i-spot-lvm-chameleons.447301 https://theredarchive.com/post/447301