~ archived since 2018 ~

A new study found that male-friendly therapists reject ideological beliefs about the patriarchy, and that such beliefs are harmful to male mental health patients

June 6, 2021
332 upvotes

I found this on r/mensrightslinks by u/shit-zen-giggles. It was published just recently in June 2021 by the Psychreg Journal of Psychology.

How therapists work with men is related to their views on masculinity, patriarchy, and politics

https://np.reddit.com/r/mensrightslinks/comments/nrz4hw/how_therapists_work_with_men_is_related_to_their/

Link to study:

https://www.pjp.psychreg.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/7-john-barry-50-64.pdf

Citation:

Barry, John A.; Liddon, Louise; Walker, Robert; & Seager, Martin. (2021). How therapists work with men is related to their views on masculinity, patriarchy, and politics. Psychreg Journal of Psychology

Summary:


This study found that male-friendly therapists are less likely to be feminists, less likely to accept feminist ideological beliefs about the patriarchy, more likely to believe that their original training was not male-friendly, and more likely to believe that masculinity is not "just" a social construct.

They also found that male friendly therapists who are feminists do not believe that feminism is useful in their clinical practice. Something which they have likely learned over time; those therapists on average had more experience than therapists who still tried to apply feminist ideological dogmas to their practice. I think it says a lot that even the subset of male friendly therapists who identified as feminists still rejected feminism as a useful construct for therapy.

The authors are however worried about changes in APA guideline that might encourage new / younger therapists to adopt feminist ideologies into their practice.

Another key finding is that therapy dropout rates among men (which are higher than women), and reluctance to talk therapy in general, are likely being caused by the perception that therapists are left leaning and support feminism. Since men are more likely to lean conservative, and to reject feminism, this poses a threat to what's called the therapeutic alliance (which is basically how well the therapist and the client get along together).

It is however not true that most therapists are feminists. While this study did find that therapists leaned sightly left on average, most therapists and psychologists reject feminism, patriarchy theory, and masculinity as "just" a social construct. Despite the popularity of feminism in the social sciences, the field of psychology has long eschewed feminist ideology in place of evidence based science.

This study also suggested that focusing on feminism, patriarchy, and masculinity as a social construct, reduces the amount of control that male patients have over their thoughts and feelings, which contributes to a sense of helplessness. This is opposite of what therapy usually tries to accomplish, so the use of these ideological dogmas in therapy with men is highly questionable and goes against established principles in psychology and therapy.

As a result, the latest APA guidelines about men and masculinity were questioned, as was the use of patriarchy, privilege, and "power imbalances" between men and women in therapy. In particular, it was found that couples therapists who tried to view gender and relationships through feminist ideology were significantly less effective than therapists who used "evidence based therapy" which rejects those views. Further research into this and related topics was suggested by the researchers.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the subreddit /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates.

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates archive

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

Post Information
Title A new study found that male-friendly therapists reject ideological beliefs about the patriarchy, and that such beliefs are harmful to male mental health patients
Author Oncefa2
Upvotes 332
Comments 62
Date June 6, 2021 2:08 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/a-new-study-found-that-male-friendly-therapists.1061159
https://theredarchive.com/post/1061159
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ntmjw4/a_new_study_found_that_malefriendly_therapists/
Red Pill terms in post
Top posts by Oncefa2
Comments

[–]Jackso08 67 points68 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I've been thinking about going to therapy and honestly my main concern was running into a feminist therapist that views my problems as a man only in how they relate to women.

This makes me feel alot better

[–]Yithar 51 points52 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My advice is to try to look for a male therapist. Given how male psychologists are often treated, they'd have to do some mental gymnastics to not realize how men are treated differently.

That being said, it's not 100% certain that a male therapist won't have the biases you're concerned about, but I'd argued it's more likely for a female therapist to have one. Furthermore, being a man, they're more likely to understand. It's harder for one gender to understand the other gender's issues when they don't experience them firsthand.

[–]AutoModerator[M] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reminder everyone - Don't brigade the crossposted sub. It's against reddit rules.

To document instances of misandry, consider these options

1) take screenshots and upload them to Imgur
2) archive the page using a site like https://archive.vn/
3) crosspost the link to a dedicated subreddit like /r/everydaymisandry

You can also report misandry directly to the admins here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]Steyrox 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The most feminist therapists I have encountered have been male for some reason. I think they have to overcompensate for their masculinity.

[–]TheRabbitTunnel 38 points39 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Go to a male therapist. Idc if people say thats sexist. There are far, far too many female feminist therapists who dont know how to actually help men.

Therapists are humans and have flaws like everyone else, and plenty of female therapists are feminist women who believe in patriarchy, male privilege, etc.

[–]TheTurquoiseTortilla 23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It goes beyond that. You should have a therapist who is going to be able to relate to you. On average, men are more likely to relate more to other men with all else being equal. It’s not sexist to seek out someone who would better understand your experience.

[–]TheRabbitTunnel 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Right, you could easily find a male therapist who sucks, and youd wanna switch too.

[–]AleksandrNevskyleft-wing male advocate 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For many that's easier said than done. I was trying to see one through a hospital's trauma department. When I explicitly asked for a male one the offended "specialist" responded by threatening me with my area's equivalent of a 5150.

[–]TheRabbitTunnel 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, its fucking awful. A woman requesting a female therapist would never receive significant backlash or threats for it. But god forbid a man wants a male therapist who could relate to him more and wont dismiss his issues as "patriarchy."

[–]AleksandrNevskyleft-wing male advocate 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the hardest part by far. Wading through the bullshit to find the good shit as the saying goes.

Out of a dozen or so I tried in the past couple years I've found 1 that I knew explicitly rejected woke feminist ideas. I just wish I found him a lot sooner because if I had I wouldn't have waited 4 months before finally opening up to him about my rape and trauma. For his part he understood why I was so hesitant though.

[–]beatstorelax 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

there's male therapists too... and they normally are better too.

[–]Hey_itsmeguysright-wing guest 18 points19 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

A new study found that male-friendly therapists reject ideological beliefs about the patriarchy, and that such beliefs are harmful to male mental health patients

All I have to say is: Duh! Obviously!

[–]TheNerdWonder 15 points16 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I'd go further. Feminism is harmful to society.

[–]_MyAnonAccount_ 9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I believe it had its place, but has overstayed its welcome. Egalitarianism is what we should be striving for now, while feminism should be employed in countries where women truly are seen as second class citizens

[–]TheNerdWonder 15 points16 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Problem is, men are treated just as bad in those countries and feminists won't acknowledge that ever. A huge part of their dogma is quite literally never admitting fault in their extremely flawed worldview and acknowledging that male privilege hardly exists for at least 97% of the world's male population. We should be purely egalitarian even in those places because feminism will never stand for actual equality. I mean, look at how feminist thinkers thought about black men and women, for instance. They weren't considered as human, worth dignity. That was commonplace in the dogma for decades and only recently became challenged in the latter half of the 20th century and the 21st century.

Again, feminism is harmful to society as a whole for that reason and it shouldn't have any place of respect, credibility or dignity in it. Neither should anyone, man or woman who believes in it and pushes it.

[–]_MyAnonAccount_ 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Problem is, men are treated just as bad in those countries and feminists won't acknowledge that ever.

Men are treated like shit in a lot of countries, but I wouldn't say just as badly as women for all of them. The ones I have experience with - Muslim ones like Pakistan - treat men terribly, but women even worse. In Muslim countries, a hetero couple caught fornicating will often result in the woman being killed by her family (often in the street, with neighbours pitching in) and the man will be married off to some other girl he's never met. She has to treat him like a king despite his past. Note, I'm not saying fornication is a bad thing. I'm not religious, but in those cultures fornication is a big no-no. I'm highlighting here that girls often lose their lives for doing things people consider bad, while guys have the same mistakes erased and forgotten about.

While men are treated like shit in a lot of places, in the countries I've got experience with, women are treated even worse. 'Human rights' only apply to men there, so advocating for the rights of the people in general often leaves women behind. Men need help there too, but I think a woman-focussed drive on societal improvement would be needed to ever reach egalitarianism there.

[–]TheNerdWonder 11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Go to Afghanistan and Pakistan and look at what the Taliban is specifically doing to young boys. If they aren't being turned into child soldiers, they're quite literally molesting them as part of Bacha Bazi. That is the same as what's being done to women, but the so-called "egalitarians" at the UN won't tell you that's happening because they too are buying into the feminist dogma. If they weren't, there wouldn't solely be a UN Women. There'd be a UN Boys or UN Men. There'd be more discourse on the trafficking of young men and boys. You'll only hear about the data of women being treated that way.

Human rights do not apply to men under feminist tenets. Look at how they and the UN responded to the moral and human rights crisis that unfolded at Srebenica. They let 3,000+ men be raped and literally murdered by the bushel and told the world that the women were more important instead of trying to save everyone. Even Hillary Clinton has been heard making that same justification. They both proved that feminism is to gender, as racism is to race. It's founded on the desire of cynical women who have an immature inclination to air out their grievances against all men for the actions of a few dirtbags and complete contempt for men simply existing.

[–]_MyAnonAccount_ 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You make a good point. There's some horrendous stuff happening to men worldwide that's ignored because they're male :(

[–]Nobleone11 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

While insisting, with fervor, that feminism is desperately needed in Middle East countries. But you need only look to India and what happened with Rape Laws as an example of unchecked feminism run amuck.

Context: The Indian Government were toying with the notion of making Rape Laws gender neutral, only to kowtow to outraged feminists groups advocating that Rape remains a gendered issue specific to women only. Leaving male victims out of avenues for support.

[–]_MyAnonAccount_ 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Context: The Indian Government were toying with the notion of making Rape Laws gender neutral, only to kowtow to outraged feminists groups advocating that Rape remains a gendered issue specific to women only. Leaving male victims out of avenues for support.

That sounds unfortunately similar to how things are in the UK - men legally cannot be raped here

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not feminism, but women's rights activism.

There's no need to bring gender ideology and dogma into those countries, especially after seeing what it's done in the West.

[–]_MyAnonAccount_ 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not feminism, but women's rights activism.

That's a lot better phrased than what I wrote. I agree with you

[–]helloiseeyou2020 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the society. Canada and the U.K.? Probably, because the occupy the position that things must change as much as possible in women's favor for equality to emerge despite being unquestionably favored in many areas and equal in most. Saudi Arabia? Hardly. USA? Sometimes misguided, but let's not pretend Roe v. Wade is not under siege and thats a huge problem

[–]jukutt 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Male-friendly therapists do not practice views harmful to men" - 2021, thats how far we've come lads

[–]shit-zen-giggles 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the thorough writeup and posting it forward.

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 34 points35 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

those therapists on average had more experience than therapists who still tried to apply feminist ideological dogmas to their practice

It's scary to think that there are therapists pushing anti-male ideology on patients in a setting of such extreme emotional vulnerability.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 34 points35 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

I've seen a lot of stories recently on Reddit between this sub, r/MensRights, and r/MaleMentalHealth of exactly this. A couple guys literally said they were pushed over the edge by their therapists talking about toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. It's really pretty abhorrent that this is accepted and not called out more. We need to start reporting these therapists who do that. It is likely literally killing people.

[–]Deadlocked02 26 points27 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

And yet, people on the MaleMentalHealth sub continue gaslighting men who had negative experiences with feminism or trying to convince them that their problem isn’t with feminism, but with certain individuals. That and labeling the MRAs as incels. How many men will need to come forward and talk about how feminism is ruining their mental health until they’re taken seriously? How can creating excuses and propagating an ideology take precedence over male mental health?

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

*some people.

They're trolls and they don't define the sub.

It actually isn't that bad but what I've noticed is that there are a handful of trolls who brows the sub directly so they get to some of the submission with low traffic. But then they kind of get drowned out if the post gets enough attention.

[–]Carkudo 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They're trolls and they don't define the sub.

I feel you're downplaying what is a serious problem. There's a fairly new post there right now with a guy in the field of psychology complaining about feminist bullying. The fifth most upvoted comment (with 40+ upvotes as of right now) is a comment berating him for generalizing feminists.

[–]Forgetaboutthelonely 5 points6 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Where has this happened there?

[–]Itasenalm 10 points11 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Deadlocked02 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I linked this among some of the absurdities of the sub. Not sure if the links are working, though. I mean, look at this. This coming from a sub that was supposed to help men. People bend over and backwards to defend feminism, to the point that it takes precedence over male mental health. It’s really sad. I think I’m in a stable emotional place now, but even so, such things make my blood boil. Now imagine what it does to men who are going through custody battles, false rape and DV accusations, bullying...

[–]Itasenalm 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, look, it’s one of the comments I downvoted earlier. Pretty sure I explained why they’re a misandrist on one of their other comments too. Not that they’ll consider it a valid explanation, but I still tried.

I’m so glad I decided to treat my own mental health (and had it turn out relatively alright) instead of being faced with people like that. People like that are the ones who fucked me up so bad. The reason I still literally can’t sleep at night. But at least I don’t have panic attacks as often anymore.

[–]AutoModerator[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reminder everyone - Don't brigade the crossposted sub. It's against reddit rules.

To document instances of misandry, consider these options

1) take screenshots and upload them to Imgur
2) archive the page using a site like https://archive.vn/
3) crosspost the link to a dedicated subreddit like /r/everydaymisandry

You can also report misandry directly to the admins here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's mainly just a couple dedicated posters in that thread though. Probably a third of all the comments are from two feminists and all the other people responding to them.

One got like +27 votes on their top level comment but it was just worded clever. You can see that once they came out and showed their true colors to everyone the discussion flipped on them.

You find people like that even on r/MensRights. They have lax moderation (and only one active mod who told me he takes a hands off approach) but they do have rules in the sidebar against feminists coming in and making everything about their ideology. And I have seen those rules enforced on occasion. Most recently here.

[–]Forgetaboutthelonely 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Noted.

[–]local-void-entity 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, there's this thread, where a couple of the comments boil down to "your problem isn't with feminism, it's with certain people", "are they talking about certain men and their behaviours or you specifically?" (which later ended up at "you're just internalising their venting about men"), and verbatim "You sound like an incel tbh".

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hello, We require all links to Reddit to be non-participation links to prevent brigading. Because of this, your comment has been removed. Please feel free to edit this with the required non-participation link(s); once you do so, we can approve the post immediately.

You can easily create non-participation links by replacing the 'www' part of the URL with 'np'. Your link should look like this: http://np.reddit.com/r/the_rest_of_the_link]

Note: there's no need to message the moderators, as we will see this in our moderation queue.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]mhandanna 52 points53 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

MRA is growing guys. MRA is going into comedy and getting milliolns of views:

https://youtu.be/MzpMRCeTHYE

As above, its going into academia:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Perspectives-Male-Psychology-Introduction-Textbooks/dp/1119685354/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&qid=1618499621&refinements=p_27%3ABarry+John&s=books&sr=1-6

its getting more mainstream articles e.g. in Quillette

heck its even getting into womens magazines like evie magazine

Its getting government funded iniatives: https://www.amhf.org.au/men_s_health_what_can_we_learn_from_gillette_s_masculinity_ad

Its concepts are going into diverse non MRA circles e.g. Theroommates Kevin Samuels - all with millions of views. Completely non MRA spaces are mentioning MRA points

And regardless of what you think about Jordan Peterson, the fact that patriarchy is completely discredited in a video like this that got >>35 million<< views is just splendid:

https://youtu.be/yZYQpge1W5s

[–]Hey_itsmeguysright-wing guest 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It'll still take a lot to convince my pessimistic ass, though. I'll truly believe that when MRAs become the politically correct people.

[–]Quix_Nix 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This lines up with my experience for sure

[–]Itasenalm 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“In other news, which surprises absolutely nobody...”

This is nice to see though, appropriate application of logic and reason from “up top” on this topic. Thank you for posting.

[–]peanutbutterjams 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I wonder how far this goes.

I have undiagnosed chronic nerve pain. I've seen a lot of specialists and doctors to try and (1) manage my pain and (2) find a reason it's happening.

Of the two female doctors I saw, both of them (1) didn't believe or minimized my paint and (2) refused to even consider prescribing the only pain medication that had so far worked (I tried 6 different kinds beforehand).

I can't help but wondering if these doctors, who received 'implicit bias' training as part of their educating, were unconsciously disbelieving my pain, or downplaying the extent of it, because of my gender. My family doctor had shown signs of being very uncomfortable whenever I was in pain during our appointment.

But I can't say anything about this because I'd one of them, an MRA type, a neckbeard, a #notallmen man, instead of a human questioning the quality of his publicly-funded healthcare.

[–]JaytDude 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've had the exact same experience with my chronic pain and it's driven me to horrible depths of hopelessness. My male GP is the only doctor I've gone to that remotely takes me at my word when I explain how bad my pain is (I'm unable to even stand long enough to take a shower during flare ups).

I've been unable to even get pain medicine.

I thought I was going crazy, but my boyfriend was at the last meeting I had with a female doctor and noted her complete disinterest/tunnel vision.

Just posting this to let you know you're not alone in that experience.

[–]Forgetaboutthelonely 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Who knew that treating men like monstrous oppressors could have a negative impact on their mental health!?!?!

[–]peanutbutterjams 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The authors are however worried about changes in APA guideline that might encourage new / younger therapists to adopt feminist ideologies into their practice

I'd like more information on these APA guidelines if anybody has it.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The APA basically defined masculinity, or at least "traditional (what they call toxic) masculinity", a mental disorder.

APA Versus Data

http://empathygap.uk/?p=2735

[–]TheQuestioner235 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"MRAs never accomplished anything"? I think not.

[–]AskingToFeminists 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm friend with a few therapists. Some of them are feminists. But their practice is evidence based, and they don't use their feminism during their practice, they distinguish between their own believe and what is the state of the art for treating people according to the science in their field.

Well, I wouldn't be able to stay friend with someone using a position of authority to brainwash people in a vulnerable state.

I'm not necessarily sure of just how good they are with male patients, as I'm not a fly on the wall, but from what I've heard they have rather good results and they most certainly are not the "if you are unwell, it's because of toxic masculinity" kind of horror story therapist you can sometimes read here.

I'm not surprised by the results of this study. It's a bit of a "study confirm that making your patients bleed is not a proper way to cure them of their anemia" kind of study.

But I guess it had to be done.

[–]OirishM 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One would hope that at least some people who hold those views would know better than to apply what is by definition a comment on a demographic (toxic masculinity in this case) to an individual.

Sadly, doesn't sound like that always happens in practice. But I'm glad there are at least some who know how to apply their concepts a bit more sensibly and don't try and force them on individuals where they don't fit.

[–]OirishM 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good find.

Sorry to hear everyone's stories in the comments

[–]massimovolume 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've been in therapy for a while and tried different therapists. I live in Italy so I'm not sure about the situation in America, but I've not met many therapists who support the idea of patriarchy or men are oppressors. Most support the idea that men and women have issues because of gender roles, which I agree.

[–]Geiten 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Maybe i missed it, but how is male friendly defined?

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They identify themselves that way.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2022. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter