So this is a little late, but I'd like to offer some words for r/menslib. It's in reference to your recent AMA with Chuck Derry from the Duluth Model Organization.. You guys were surprised at what you heard, and how bad it was....but we weren't. We knew this was going to happen, because we've been trying to warn you about political feminism and things like the Duluth Model for years. We know you are feminists and you don't hate men, but we've been trying to warn you for years- the groups and figures at the top of the hierarchy of feminism are backwards and sexist and disingenuous. The Duluth Model isn't some 'fringe idea', it's the single most influential social model on police MO for domestic violence in the US.

You guys even made a follow up post unpacking the post, in which I must be honest, you guys seem to be on the cusp of realizing that your view on the modern day feminist movement isn't quite how the real world works. Some quotes:

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One thing that was said that really bothered me was that IPV (in a heterosexual relationship) where the woman is the perpetrator and the man is the victim is less serious, since it doesn’t typically result in as much physical harm, and is typically provoked by the man. My issues with this are numerous. First of all, IPV is not necessarily physical. It can also be emotional/verbal, and those forms can be just as damaging in the long term as physical abuse. Second, IPV that is physically violent isn’t just harmful because it physically harms someone, it also does immense psychological damage. Even if you aren’t going to the ER from your spouse hitting you, you are walking away with all of the same emotional wounds. Third off, the idea that most men who are being physically assaulted in a relationship deserve it or provoked it, in some way or form, is incredibly harmful to male victims of IPV, and his wording was very similar to the sort of victim-blaming that male sexual assault victims hear - that they, as men, are bigger and stronger so they can’t really be hurt, and should just push her off or fight back.

We told you this. We told you this is what feminist literature actually says if you bother to read it. We told their buzzwords such as

"heteronormative"

"patriarchal structures"

"systemic oppression"

"to those with privilege, equality feels like oppression"

"Inherent misogyny"

It's flat-earth tier. In fact it's worse, because it's actual harmful. This is what we told you, the more political feminist organizations actively support, perpetrate, and lobby for the legalization of domestic violence against men, and automatic exemption for prison for violent female criminals.

This comment is a tough for me, I really do feel sorry for what happened. But this isn't a video game, it's real life, so I have to be harsh. This mod has a position over authority on a sub with hundreds of thousands of users, so I'm going to be honest and blunt- subs like ML are part of the problem of the following comment:

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I grew up in a household where my mother was emotionally/verbal abusive to my father (as well as the kids) and it distinctly felt like Chuck discounted that and viewed it as less serious, as it was female-led and received.

Because Chuck follows feminist theory. Not because he is patriarchal, not because he believes in "hetero-normative" beliefs, it is because he is a feminist. IT IS BECAUSE HE IS A FEMINIST. IT IS BECAUSE HE IS A FEMINIST. IT IS BECAUSE HE IS A FEMINIST. No, not all feminist think that way. I know feminism, by definition, recognizes male victims too. But then....why doesn't the Duluth Model?

You guys need to wake up and accept how bad things really are. There will never be a legitimate "mens liberation" sub that follows the principles of modern day feminism.

You have been lied too. What you believe about the MRM is a lie. You have been taught a distortion, and we encourage you to come here and talk about things.