Do you think women (in general) want men as much as men want women? Why?

a-man-from-earth · 2022-05-15T01:39:24+00:00

This post was reported as generalizing women, but OP indicates that, which makes us aware that there are exceptions. We'll allow this.

Make sure in the comments to also specifically allow for exceptions. Not all women are the same, and not all men are the same. But there are discernable trends.

Peptocoptr · 2022-05-14T21:53:51+00:00

Women in lesbian relationships have sex once the relationship is established 1 to 2 times a month, gay men have sex 1 to 2 times a week.

Men want women sexually much much more than women want men.

Lesbian couples have a higher divorce rate than straight couples and gay men have a lower divorce rate than straight couples.

Women are less inclined to long-term romantic partnership than men.

I put it down mainly to biology.

Dry-Pianist1853 · 2022-05-14T22:48:37+00:00

it could be the fact that men are so easlily available that they take it for granted. the fact that men have to work harder for women make us appreciative it more.

Imaginary-Sense3733 · 2022-05-15T10:14:12+00:00

I've been thinking about this for a while. My best friend is a woman, and I've been talking to her about possibly ending my relationship with my girlfriend.

My friend seems to have genuine difficulty understanding that although the relationship has problems, I'm willing to work on them, to her the obvious and only solution is to move on and find another relationship that doesn't have the problem. I wonder if the relative gendered disparity of dating opportunities affects our perceptions?

To her, dating opportunities are common and trivial, they're essentially disposable, whereas to me they're more like rare jewels to be enjoyed and treasured. I think the fact that my friend simply dislikes my girlfriend plays a part, but that we both seem to value the idea of partnership differently is interesting.

Nayko214 · 2022-05-14T18:53:53+00:00

I don't think they do, based on the fact they don't approach much. Obviously the social expectation is for men to approach, but if women really wanted a boyfriend or something they'd have zero issue getting one by just asking since guys never get asked (and thus would probably accept a date just on those grounds alone).

Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-05-14T21:48:02+00:00

They don't. If it were the case, Japanese women would approach herbivore men, women would not like men based on their utility and they would have a short list of requirements of their partners.

Men liking women far more than women liking men is why women have so much social power.

Motanul_Negru · 2022-05-14T20:27:11+00:00

Definitely not, and the emergence of TGR is more a consequence (a horrible one, let's be clear) than a cause of human sexual dynamics.

The sad truth is that sexual reproduction may be very good at accelerating biodiversity and selecting for fitness to the environment, it's hell on the individual of either gender, and it doesn't do so hot generally in the partly artificial environment humanity has built for itself.

The way this worked out for humans is that men want to have sex with women, and women want things from men, that are harder for them to get for themselves.

This ensures that men chase women and provide for them and their children, instead of begging out of the whole malarkey to do their own thing and die without offspring (which is essentially what I'm doing, over the occasionally painful protests of my instincts, because I live in a post-industrial, socially atomized world, where the pressure on me to conform to the old norm of having a wife and children and providing for them at the expense of my quality of life is trivial).

On the other side, women are betrayed by their own biology in a number of "fun" ways, but the biggest deals are three: smaller weaker muscles, menstruation, and late pregnancy. In pre-industrial times, women needed to be prosocial and agreeable to make up for this, and they kind-of needed men - needed them enough to accept them and their sexuality, generally speaking.

This later devolved into the most successfully acquisitive men and their heirs (the chiefs, shamans and warriors that later evolved into and/ or gave way to the priestly and aristocratic classes, and latterly the capitalist class) essentially taking control of everyone, with the known results - the relevant one here is the feminists' boogeyman, the patriarchy (which they are so 'good' at over-generalizing and warping into an even monstrous shape than it already has).

But yes, the whole system relies on men wanting very badly to get sex (and validation) from women, while women want resources, protection and labour from men, with the opposite being far less the case. It has been a stable imbalance since before humans were humans, and only now in our current, ultra-divergent circumstances, are we at liberty to fully appreciate its failings.

Obviously, it's possible to rise above this simple instinctive framework and many men and women do, for which I give kudos; but that in itself takes effort and as far as I can tell most people don't care to do so, if they even care enough to know what's going on.

Asexual and exclusively gay men are the only two groups that don't have to worry about it at all, except when society forces them to do so - this is the most important source of the incredible vitriol against male homosexuality (and why ace men are often accused of it), by the way: checking out of the system was verboten, because it was and is consistently in the top 3 most powerful tools of social control over men.

Note on your point 2: I'm straight male, and I really wish I wasn't - I'd have much more fun in life if I could find it in me to direct my sexual feelings at men.

smaran13 · 2022-05-14T20:21:22+00:00

I think in the past few years, straight women wishing they were “at least” bi or full on lesbian has become popular and even a trendy thing to say. I used to be one of those girls too, but not now. I realised that I need to stop putting down all men. I can’t change my sexuality. I’m comfortable that I’m straight and no other sexuality is better or worse for me. Putting down the group I’m attracted to isn’t going to help me find a suitable partner.

As for your first question, well things are definitely changing slowly. Women are approaching men, texting first on apps, coming out clean about their feelings to their male friends.. etc. Maybe you don’t see it yet, but doesn’t mean this change isn’t happening.

CyclopeWarrior · 2022-05-15T09:09:34+00:00

You just have to look at the sex industry in general and social media validation. It's pretty one sided a d without a doubt who pursues the other sex more.

earthlogic · 2022-05-14T21:09:43+00:00

I don't really think there's a way to know the answer to this question, because we can't really ever understand any experience but our own.

I'm a woman, and my initial reaction to this was, of course I want men like men want women! But I really have no way of proving or disproving that. I don't know what it's like to be a man any more than a man knows what it's like to be a woman. And I don't know if I'm an outlier for women or the norm.

But for the record, I, some random bisexual woman, want men (and women) quite a lot. I get distracted, I get aroused, all the stuff men tend to talk about, I identify with. That's really as far as I can go with it though, as the rest would require me to be inside someone else's head.

craite · 2022-05-14T22:32:21+00:00

Yes I think so. According to statistics the percentage of men under 30 reporting no sex in the last year is signifcantly higher than the percentage of women. I think it's just a question of supply and demand. If what you desire is available in abundance and frequently offered to you you won't crave it as strongly and not pursue it as desperately. And traditional gender roles still firmly determine that men should approach and ask out women. So women are getting plenty of opportunities, while men have to make the first step otherwise they will just remain single.

If men stopped overnight to ask women out, or only at the same frequency as women currently do, I think that dynamic would certainly change a lot and women would start to take more initiative. Because ultimately women crave intimacy and relationships with the opposite gender just as much as men, otherwise the aforementioned statistics wouldn't exist. It's just part of our nature. That's not to say there aren't differences in the standards and priorities that men and women have when looking for a partner. I think women want men in different ways than vice versa, but they couldn't do without us any more than we could do without them.

matrixislife · 2022-05-14T23:34:18+00:00

I think overall women like men, but they really like the security that comes of being with a partner that has stability, a house, good job etc.
I don't think that the attraction lasts to any great extent, both men and women appear in general quite willing to go look elsewhere after a little while.

If your female friends don't like men they are quite free not to date them.

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-05-15T07:21:07+00:00

Contrary to other people here, I think women want men just as much as men want women. The difference is that men will desire any women, for the most part, but women will only desire men with certain characteristics.

Of course there are exceptions.

Cunari · 2022-05-14T20:09:11+00:00

Women define men in relationship to themselves. My husband, my brother, my dad, my fan, my mechanic, etc. it’s a bit like a job. You’re meeting expectations fulfilling a role. Women have very little interest in men outside of the role that they provide them. On dates, it is usually the women who talks about interests etc whereas the man is asked vetting questions about their job whether they want kids etc.

Women create female only spaces. Have onlyfans and instagram accounts where they don’t have to look at their male followers.

smaran13 · 2022-05-14T19:57:48+00:00

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Valoxity-_- · 2022-05-14T20:15:44+00:00

Generally speaking NAH not at all. Women have more options by default because of the simp, whiteknights, desperate men. Theres no such thing as a female simp, and the ones that could be simping are simping for the top 1% of men. Women for the most part just have to wait, and eventually guys will come to them. Regarding your second point, i have started to notice a trend where either after a breakup or being approached by unattractive men to much, they will just randomly turn bi( its turned in to a bit of a meme) Men have a stronger biological desire to mate, and to spread their seed so they will approach more naturally.

a-man-from-earth · 2022-05-14T19:43:06+00:00

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audreyrosedriver · 2022-05-15T01:55:16+00:00

As a woman, I can tell you through my teenage years, I thought of nothing else.

Throwawayingaccount · 2022-05-14T22:43:14+00:00

I believe not, but have a specific underlying cause to point to.

Female hormonal birth control on average lowers libido.

With how many women use such birth control methods, it leads to a notable difference in average libido between genders.

sorebum405 · 2022-05-15T04:49:17+00:00

They don't,and the evolutionary reason for this is because women have higher minimum parental investment then men. So they are going to be more choosy when selecting a mate.This is why they have a lower sex drive than men , and why they don't fall in love as quick or easily as men.Women must have less desire for men to be more choosy.

2022-05-15T07:36:39+00:00

There's a lot to talk about with the nature vs nurture of it all. In the nature vs nurture debates, humans lean more "nurture" than essentially every animal on the planet. It's why we have an enormous brain with extreme neuroplasticity and an enormous prefrontal cortex. We were successful because we could just make up our own "nature" as needed.

What I can say is that, as I understand it, humans have one of the highest female libidos relative to males. Probably related to our bonobo-like ancestors, where a high female libido is critical for reducing inter-gender imbalance and reducing male hierarchy.

Another thing to consider is that apparently there have been several periods in history where women were seen as the horny ones.

But socially, there are a couple things I advocate in regards to all this.

Expecting more of women in initiating relationships.

A huge chunk of the problem exists because of the "market forces", if you will. Basically, because we've held onto the expectation of active men and passive women, we've created a market in which women can continue on with their lives and wait for suiters, while men have to learn how to actively initiate things.

Simply put, it's easier to choose not to eat if you are at a buffet.

But if food is scarce, you're more likely to eat whatever you can get.

Massive generalization here, as plenty of women are hardly "at a buffet" with regards to men. They are just less visible.

But there are countless reasons I advocate for this. If women are more picky, this means they get to approach guys they already like, and then are more likely to get a yes.

This also somewhat reduces the advantage of having a "peacocking" personality. That is, I would argue a lot of success from loud, overtly extroverted, or inconsiderate guys comes from mere exposure more than it does actual desirability. This is only exacerbated with modern-day isolation and the epidemic of loneliness. Similarly, Men who want to respect women's boundaries will be especially hesitant to approach some random girl he finds cute, because he feels he is imposing himself in some way. There's little natural about "cold-opens" which is why they feel so freaking awkward. But a guy who doesn't care about her boundaries will go through enough cold opens that he'll eventually find someone who is into it.

By having women initiate more, it helps them find the better men they are wanting.

But that's a hard thing to change when you have the option not to and still get by. Similarly, with the TGRs, it's easy for women to think that a guy is only interested if he actively pursues.

See if you can develop a man-crush

I'd say one of my top problems in terms of self-confidence was usually that, in being attracted primarily to women, I felt unattractive myself. That is, by not being attracted to men, I have no idea what she would see in me or men as a whole. It would feel like a game of catch up. Like she is the "attractive one" and I'm the one who "doesn't deserve her and needs to make up for it". This is much of how the "pedestal" problem pops up.

While sexuality is pretty hard-set, there's still a decent amount of it you can tinker with. I tried tinkering a bit and was able to develop some guy-crushes. Where you wouldn't sleep with them per-se, but you're like legit attracted to them. Oscar Isaac and Timothee Chalamet are two big ones for me. Combine that with a Rebecca Furgusen crush and, well, Dune made me one happy guy.

It might seem a tad strange, but girls do this all the time, and I think it contributes to their generally more emotionally-intimate friendships. Something guys can certainly use more of.

This is very useful and helped with my self-confidence a decent amount. Because now when wondering "what do women see in men", then in some cases, I get to just see it for myself.

SO then you get to kinda see the appeal of the "bad boy". Think less "school bully" and think more "Winter Soldier" or "Zuko".

And then you get to see the divide regarding looks and personality. A sculpted body is nice to look at, but it matters less than for women. It seems to be much more about the chemistry between personality and general aesthetic. That is, looks still matter, but perfection barely does.

Things just feel better when you can see your own gender as attractive. I still struggle a bit with this, but it's gotten a lot better with a few guy crushes.

zonadedesconforto · 2022-05-14T21:14:41+00:00

(Straight) women are as diverse as men in this regard. Your female friends are not as representative of the whole female population as you think.

CAVFIFTEEN · 2022-05-15T15:35:53+00:00

Yes. In general, humans largely desire and are driven toward procreation as well as companionship. Unfortunately there has been a lot of purity culture throughout the last couple thousand years and it takes time to undo. There’s a great sub called r/HLCommunity and I’d recommend checking that out. You’ll find plenty of people, men and women who have high libidos and find that it’s really not a gender thing.

There have also been studies and such found that women actually prefer MORE frequency and/or MORE partners. On the negative side of this you can look at things like r/DeadBedrooms and see plenty of examples where women and men pretty equally have problems with mid-matched libidos and/or desire. You can also find this with r/cheating_stories and see that it’s pretty even where people are unfaithful too so don’t let others make you think women are naturally unfaithful or anything like that either. There’s plenty of others like this out there that help to show real life and current examples that these things are born gendered issues. There are women who are absolute freaks and can’t get enough of their partner or even need more than one to satisfy them. There are also men who have much lower libidos. Everyone is different and there isn’t a perfect answer.

Everything that I’ve spoken of thus far is from cishet perspective. This isn’t even getting into LGBTQ people. The human experience is one made of or many different factors. All of one group is never going to be the same as another. No group is a monolith.

Now with that said, there are cultural and societal reasons for the things you mentioned. Women are encouraged in many places to be submissive and docile, letting men make the first move and really take control. The problem with this is many men who will do that are not the kind of men these women should be dating. At the same time, many women would like to approach someone they find attractive but have been socially conditioned to not do so. As such as it currently stands, it is mens responsibility to be as attractive as we can be in all ways and approach women that we’re attracted to. If we’re turned down for any reason, we need to simply respect them and leave them alone. That simple.

A lot of men suck. And imo that’s a good thing because once you get yourself right, you’ll see how little competition you have. When women say they don’t want to be approached by men, they mean ones they aren’t attracted to. Think of it from your own perspective. Would you really be annoyed if a gorgeous woman “interrupted what you were doing” because she wanted to talk to you? Of course not. The problem is you have guys who are unattractive and/or disrespectful which are total turn-offs. You need to be attractive, approach, and be respectful. That’s all it takes. It’s simple, but it isn’t easy.

We can and I believe SHOULD work to dismantle these odd gender roles but we also must work within the rules we are currently given. The reality is people will make time for those they are attracted to. So become what the women you find attractive, find attractive and approach attractive women, while respecting their boundaries.

TLDR; Yes but society and purity culture along with gender roles has made it very difficult for women to be honest in that way. While it’s unfair, it’s largely up to the men in these situations to follow three simple rules. Be attractive, approach, and be respectful.

hangfrog · 2022-05-14T20:23:55+00:00

Everyone wants companionship at least on terms they are comfortable with. A lot of people want children, for which a relationship is usually preferred. It's kind of ridiculous to think otherwise given the reality.

RockmanXX · 2022-05-14T21:30:44+00:00

I think the vast majority of manosphere misses the forest for trees and tends to put the cart before the horse as a result. Take Hypergamy for ex, yes Women are hypergamous but SO ARE MEN! Hypergamy is simply wanting a "better deal" and all humans are like that. The reason why most Men aren't hypergamous is because, they don't have the same amount of options as Women.

I'd generally think (1) is due to traditional gender roles (TGR)

Its just a matter of supply&demand. TGR exist for a reason, they are obsolete now but they used to work before. Back in the ye old days, the law enforcement was less efficient and cushy white collar jobs were locked to the Nobility Caste, therefore Men's protection&provision was a premium skill that Women WANTED. Due to the advances in Technology&Democracy, we've eliminated some of the reasons why a woman would want a man.

Nothing has changed for Men, men still want Sex. Which brings us to the problem, Supply&Demand. Male libido is higher so unlike Women, Men cannot stop wanting Women badly. And, i can only think one way to solve this problem, the Sex Robots from blade runner.

Blauwpetje · 2022-05-16T18:31:35+00:00

The bad news is that men on average have talents that are easier to be replaced by machines, i.e. physical strength and mathematical thinking. (An example of the latter: the best 100 chess players on earth are men, but they’re no match for a computer.) Also, both men and women are mostly used from birth to be close to a woman and a woman’s body is more shaped for caring while a man’s is more shaped for activity. Women are much more often more or less bisexual than men. In pre-modern times, needing a man went without saying for a woman, but not so much now. I don’t see an easy solution. I can only see that affirmative action and demonising male sexuality make it worse.

2022-05-16T14:49:39+00:00

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Man_of_culture_112 · 2022-05-14T20:31:02+00:00

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Call_Me_Daily · 2022-05-15T04:19:58+00:00

1: Depends what you mean by 'want'.

2: You need new female friends (if this is anything more than a passing joke).

Zinziberruderalis · 2022-05-15T05:13:02+00:00

Obviously not.

SchalaZeal01 · 2022-05-15T07:09:22+00:00

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Title	Do you think women (in general) want men as much as men want women? Why?
Author	gabrielcoronel_
Upvotes	75
Comments	227
Date	May 14, 2022 6:51 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/upnqdq/do_you_think_women_in_general_want_men_as_much_as/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/do-you-think-women-in-general-want-men-as-much-as.1114222 https://theredarchive.com/post/1114222