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I’m really glad to see this reach the front page of Reddit! Far too often, men’s issues are reduced to feminist platitudes of “men just need to open up more”, but the author of this paper looks more into deeper societal reasons for it.

2717192619192
May 30, 2021
312 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Crosspost "Men die of suicide much more often than women. This is commonly blamed on men's unwillingness to seek help and talk about their problems. This paper disputes the conventional view, emphasizing instead socio-economic issues and obstacles to health care access" from /r/science:
Posted by vtj | 29 May 2021 | Link

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Title I’m really glad to see this reach the front page of Reddit! Far too often, men’s issues are reduced to feminist platitudes of “men just need to open up more”, but the author of this paper looks more into deeper societal reasons for it.
Author 2717192619192
Upvotes 312
Comments 57
Date May 30, 2021 3:07 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/im-really-glad-to-see-this-reach-the-front-page-of.1061213
https://theredarchive.com/post/1061213
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/no27tu/im_really_glad_to_see_this_reach_the_front_page/
Red Pill terms in post
feminist
Top posts by 2717192619192

A common response to males committing suicide 3x times as often as women is “That’s because men choose more violent & lethal methods”, with misandrist implications that it’s a result of men being inherently violent. In reality, studies show that even using the same less-lethal methods, men die more.

238 upvotes
August 12, 2021
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

Antagonism and dismissiveness toward male sexuality - a look at a thread asking if it’s cruel for someone to expect their partner to use condoms for the rest of their life.

193 upvotes
March 31, 2021
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

And it is also a wake up call for subreddits like r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates, which is a space that actively combats misandry and anti-male strains of feminism.

147 upvotes
August 4, 2021
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

I always keep this saved and ready to copy/paste whenever I encounter a No True Scotsman fallacy with feminism.

133 upvotes
July 27, 2021
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

Here’s a meme I made almost two years ago, which I was reminded of tonight - I’ll explain more in the comments.

122 upvotes
August 7, 2021
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

I help moderate a subreddit for victims of genital mutilation, a safe space you can go to navigate the negative emotions that come with it. If you were circumcised and need support and help, you are welcome in r/CircumcisionGrief!

116 upvotes
April 1, 2021
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

I was banned in /r/BestOfLegalAdvice for making a neutral statement about Men’s Rights

105 upvotes
February 10, 2019
/r/MensRights

Man is jailed as a part of systemic sexism, and no one cares about his plight.

102 upvotes
October 29, 2020
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Comments

[–]Hey_itsmeguysright-wing guest 71 points72 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

Finally, not more victim blaming!

Edit: And still in the comments, there's people going, "This is because men don't want to seek help. They want to keep their emotions to themselves." Ugh.

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 41 points42 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

And then because it's the that sub, they're nuking comments of men sharing their own personal experiences on this topic.

I can't stand the moderation there. Not every comment needs to be a scholarly abstract to add to the discussion.

[–]Carkudo 20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It would be far better if every comment did need to be a scholarly article. As it stands now they're simply censoring since groups while letting others speak freely.

[–]RStonePTleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you think citing sources will fix the problem I don't know what to tell you.

[–]Carkudo 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Um, what?

[–]RStonePTleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're mistaking logical arguments for emotional ones. You cannot beat arguments that came from emotion with logic.

Edit. All arguments stem from emotion. Even the ones without self awareness.

In fact this whole argument stems from someone calling the people here mean words and people responding to a perceived threat to their reputation.

Doesn't get more emotional than that

[–]Col-D 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Emotional logic isn't logic

[–]UnHope20 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I never go there. They are all pretty much radical feminists who hate talking about men's issues to begin with.

[–]TheLWMA 18 points19 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

At least most of the comments acknowledge that the answer to male suicide isn't as simple as "open up more".

[–]PARAN01D_R1GHT01Dright-wing guest 23 points24 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Guys. Open up more. Be vulnerable. It might take a lot of hard work, but we're all better off when you challenge your toxic masculinity."

[–]TheLWMA 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"And makes sure you share the stuff we want you to share. Your emotions can make people uncomfortable."

[–]xarexen 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And unsafe. Because you're inherently violent.

[–]RStonePTleft-wing male advocate 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most men tried that and got nothing but disdain.

Every guy whose been around knows that while his emotions are fine, most people dont care to receive them.

[–]petrol_sexual 7 points8 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget the "but women attempt more often. So they need more help" comments. Thankfully that doesn't seem to be the major theme of the comments and most seem to be taking the idea seriously.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's also been debunked like a thousand times.

I mean for starters if you try and succeed that's just 1 data point compared to someone who may have tried and failed 3 or 4 times.

And that's really just the beginning of a long list of problems with that logic.

[–]xsplizzle 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its mainly been debunked because reporting on all self harm from women is listed as a suicide attempt but, for example a man punching a wall isnt

[–]pandaappleblossom -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No it’s not. Self harm is not reported as a suicide attempt.

[–]xarexen 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

>It's also been debunked like a thousand times.

​

Debunked? It's never been proven enough to be debunked.

[–]pandaappleblossom 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes it has?

[–]xarexen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It needs to be a valid argument before it can be bunk. To be lie it must be comprehensible.

A bunk answer to 'Why did the chicken cross the road' is 'chickens like crossing infrastructure my uncle's a chicken and he told me', 'cakes are fruit on sunday' is not bunk, it's irrelevant.

[–]UnHope20 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yet we're the ones who get accused of making whataboutisms. I wonder if they know how poisonous their rhetoric is or if they genuinely think that they are helping society by derailing convos about mens issues. 🤔

[–]xarexen 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you replace 'men' with 'blacks' you can't find a difference between most modern feminist literature and 'race realist' literature.

[–]xarexen 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

'But women...'

​

Yeah, that makes it okay.

​

It's not a fucking competition.

[–]petrol_sexual 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. Women have it plenty bad and deserve most the systems that have been developed lately to help them. (things like the deluth model, though, that shit is insidious) The only thing is that men also deserve support. Not that women should lose it.

[–]Grow_peace_in_Bedlam 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! I don't want to make women as lacking in support as men, I want men to have the same access to support that women have.

[–]BCRE8TVE 42 points43 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

AAaand now it'S been deleted from r/science. Bloody fantastic.

Can't let people peek behind the curtain and see that the feminist perspective might actually not be a perfect reflection of reality, now can we?

EDIT: Oh hey it was reinstated!

[–]2717192619192left-wing male advocate[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, of course it was removed. At least the original article is still up...

[–]BCRE8TVE 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Apparently it's been reinstated now!

[–]Throwaway895423 13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Their bot claims it was removed automatically as a duplicate of a two year old post (for reference, this research was published last month).

The same bot normally takes 10 to 15 minutes to detect a duplicate and issue a removal, but in this case it took 6 hours. Food for thought.

[–]BCRE8TVE 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be fair, reddit changed something in their structure so that bots can't perform multiple actions at the same time, and have to queue their actions one at a time like everyone else. That can and has slowed down bots.

However, the excuse of removing a "duplicate" from two years ago is awfully convenient, when it's a brand new research publication...

EDIT: Oh hey it'S been reinstated now!

[–]xarexen 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

>Their bot claims it was removed automatically as a duplicate of a two year old post

​

Ah yes, the bot that operates through the Star gate.

[–]xarexen 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Science is misogynist though.

[–]BCRE8TVE 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh how I hate that nonsense.

[–]Forgetaboutthelonely 25 points26 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Funny. The comments on the original post are already being nuked. How unsurprising.

[–]2717192619192left-wing male advocate[S] 16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s sad. But to be expected.

Edit: aaaaand it’s been removed completely by their mods.

[–]Forgetaboutthelonely 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup. just noticed that myself.

[–]manbro7left-wing male advocate 13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

We tried. We were told it was "male tears, mansplaining, male fragility, toxic masculinity, weakness," then you have non-existent mental health spending, discriminated actively to help women instead, massively accepted and normalized misandry and so much more.

[–]xarexen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to mention regular welfare tends to favour women overwhelmingly more than men. More men are homeless for a reason, despite the suicide rate being so much higher.

[–]AmericanBoy505 13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly! I’m so sick and tired of the view that men are responsible for their own problems since they built the system. Seriously, people love to victim blame men.

[–]xarexen 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

>I’m so sick and tired of the view that men are responsible for their own problems since they built the system.

​

No offence, but this framing is drinking so radfem kool-aid. We didn't build this system, other men did, and they had plenty of female input.

[–]Mahameghabahanacentrist male advocate 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men didn't build the system but biology and lack of technology did. Watch a pack of lion or a pack of heyena.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

26% of suicides in men are from intimate partner violence.

Men are 40% more likely to kill themselves after their children have been taken away from them by an institutionally sexist family court system.

Social isolation due to the stigma that single men must be incels or rapists is a huge cause of mental health problems in general in men, including depression and suicide.

But no let's just say it's because men don't cry enough.

[–]FinallyReborn 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Men are 40% more likely to kill themselves after their children have been taken away from them by an institutionally sexist family court system.

Social isolation due to the stigma that single men must be incels or rapists is a huge cause of mental health problems in general in men, including depression and suicide.

Can you send a citation for these two points?

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's an article talking about social isolation:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-about-men/202102/the-mental-health-struggles-single-and-divorced-men

Some quotes in the comments here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/malementalhealth/comments/n5k0xb/the_mental_health_struggles_of_single_and/

And the 40% stat comes from here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/rbomi/wiki/main

There's actually a new study that put that number at 36%:

https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=55305

And for partner abuse there's this study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6420923/ (26%)

And this study:

http://europepmc.org/article/PMC/4967366 (17%)

[–]drew9779 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

love seeing this type of content on subs that aren’t primarily focused on gender bc I can go in and just block absolutely everyone who shames men in the comments. knowing I will never have to see another word written by those people is a form of sweet peace

[–]ZookeepergameSuper70 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Awesome!! So glad to see people actually starting to care

[–]plitox_is_a_bitch 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aaaaaaaaaaand /r/science deleted it. Go figure.

[–]mcmur 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow this is great.

I had a feminist therapist that I know give me the "toxic masculinity and men not talking about their problems is to blame for higher suicide rates among men" speech the other day.

[–]xarexen 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ironically putting that thought into a man's head would be an example of toxic masculinity.

[–]Weary-Invite1606 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s getting a LOT better and we’re getting more conscious of it

[–]StorkReturns 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's worth pointing out that this paper does not invalidate the issues men have with "opening up". The discussion shows that men indeed have trouble with talking about their own problems. But it's pointing out that this step is just one of the many hurdles men face and men's mental problems will not be solved if men just open up more if other issues (like access to help or to social services) is not improved.

[–]TheQuestioner235 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, it's more a combination of both. But the lack of openness about issues is more often something more to do with how society treats masculinity than an active choice to not be more open.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not against "telling society" to take men seriously when they open up, but it needs to be done in a respectful way that doesn't insinuate that men are the problem.

Also I think at this point we need to acknowledge that even if that does play a part, it plays a very small part, and is used as a scapegoat or a dog whistle more often than not.

[–]Wheatbelt_charlie 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

r/science is a bit of a joke, it doesn't actually stand for science, it stands for politics.

It's full of moronic vegans and other such detritus so it's no wonder that this challenges their world view.

[–]plitox_is_a_bitch 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Should be called /r/Ifuckinglovescience.

[–]xarexen 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

>moronic vegans

​

Redundant.

[–]UnHope20 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

r/Male_Studies please...

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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