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"I’m surprised at how little women hate men, they should hate them more"

June 10, 2022
186 upvotes

Oh, no, don't worry! That's not hate speech; it's within Reddit's content policy.

Explicitly encouraging hate against men is within Reddit's content policy because Reddit admin thinks it's okay to attack men as a group.

Since Reddit's policy self-admittedly boils down to "Remember the human", it's not a stretch to say that Reddit actively dehumanizes men.

"It's just Reddit" - Yes, it's only the world's most popular discussion forum. It's a nexus where people form and grow their political and philosophical perspectives. It's where culture wars are being waged. It's where propaganda is being spread.

Men deserve an even playing field in a forum that's not short form and very social like Twitter or very public like Facebook.

On Reddit your comments don't depend on social status or networks but the quality of what you say - and what we're saying tends to be long-form.

In short, discussion forums are an arena in which men have traditionally and generally both preferred and excelled.

Maybe it's not a coincidence that Reddit mods and admin are to determinedly anti-male and have increased the social aspects of Reddit while also giving mods more ways to create echo chambers and writing misleadingly-titled posts that insist women are the most, and only, harmed gender on Reddit.

The latter post is titled "Prevalence of Hate Directed At Women" and found that 0.3% of comments are hateful towards women. (They didn't measure hate against men.)

The head of the Reddit Safety team concluded with:

Finally, we will also be using this work to identify outlier communities that need a little…love from the Safety team.

So I wrote to them and pointed out that men need love from the Safety team because they are the ones who are acceptably hated on Reddit. And I provided examples, including the above. And I asked why Reddit cares so little about men, with heart and authenticity.

....So if you never hear from ol' peanutbutterjams again, you can probably figure out why.

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Post Information
Title "I’m surprised at how little women hate men, they should hate them more"
Author peanutbutterjams
Upvotes 186
Comments 40
Date June 10, 2022 2:36 AM UTC (7 months ago)
Subreddit /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/im-surprised-at-how-little-women-hate-men-they.1116588
https://theredarchive.com/post/1116588
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/v8xhgj/im_surprised_at_how_little_women_hate_men_they/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 45 points46 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I know r/everydaymisandry exists but I thought this example was particularly clear and poignant. I was going to cross-post there but I can't.

Has anybody else noticed that you can't cross-post to this sub? Or MensRights? Or everydaymisandry?

Either I'm missing some fine point about Reddit's system [Edit: Yes, I am. See manfromearth's comment below.] or men's advocacy subs have been removed from my/our cross-posting options.

Solutions to misandry on Reddit?

Keep reporting explicitly hateful comments. Clear demonization of men works too. Keep a log of the reports and the comments that inspired them (archive the comment in case they delete it).

Honestly, if people did this with enough consistency and determination, you could build the grounds for a legal case against Reddit. Especially if you have records of questionably misogynistic comments like "women enjoy shopping" being removed by the admin.

Call out hate when you see it both by reporting and by replying. You might get banned but the more people do it, the more people are going to question their acceptance of hate for men.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 25 points26 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Here at LWMA the mods have chosen to disable cross-posting (which is often an invitation to brigading). I suspect the other subs you mention have done the same.

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! I updated my comment.

[–]Kuato2012left-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know r/everydaymisandry exists but I thought this example was particularly clear and poignant. I was going to cross-post there but I can't.

If you wanted to copy and paste the entire thing, I wouldn't object.

[–]griii2left-wing male advocate 32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not just Reddit - in 2020 Facebook changed its algorithm to weight anti-women speech more strictly than anti-men speech https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/03/facebook-hate-speech/

The problem:

Tamela J. Gordon, a Miami-based writer who runs a closed group for about 115 Black women, said that after repeated flaggings from Facebook, she and her group members have also started to avoid [...] phrases that pair the words “hate” and “men” or “disgust” and “men,” and most recently the phrase “men are trash.”

the solution:

As one way to assess severity, Facebook assigned different types of attacks numerical scores weighted based on their perceived harm. For example, the company’s systems would now place a higher priority on automatically removing statements such as “Gay people are disgusting” than “Men are pigs.”

[–]BloomingBrains 36 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If there was ever a phrase that needed to be menkampf'ed more than "I’m surprised at how little women hate men, they should hate them more", I've never seen it.

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for this. Honestly I always feel unsure about pointing out examples of even what I consider to be explicit misandry because I'm both a skeptic and someone who wants to be fair as possible to everyone.

I.e., I'm able to give a big "Good, it's not just me" sigh of relief.

[–]JeffTiedrichEatsPoop 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

communities and users that incite violence or that promote hate based on identity or vulnerability will be banned

our rule only protects groups that are attacked based on a vulnerability

This redtaboo bot obviously skipped some text when reading the rules. Literacy probably isn't a criteria when looking for admins

[–]Kuato2012left-wing male advocate 24 points25 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

our rule only protects groups that are attacked based on a vulnerability

Being considered a fair target for everyone to openly hate and discriminate against seems like an immense vulnerability to me.

It must be exhausting doing all the mental gymnastics necessary to excuse bigotry and rationalize hypocrisy... And yet somehow they find that preferable to simply treating men as human.

[–]JeffTiedrichEatsPoop 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They seem to be pushing people towards echo chambers too. Oh you're unhappy that this community actively hates your kind? Find a segregated group you can take part in instead, that definitely won't breed groups like incels and other extremist reactions. Reddit admins are the textbook example of smoothbrain thinking

[–]Peptocoptr 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen

[–]philinspirit 8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Attacking men as a group has been a habit for a long time in feminist and "progressive" circles. Both men and women in progressive circles engage in these attacks. They don't see it as harmful; in fact, they see it as socially constructive. Men need to stop oppressing women, and maybe if the chorus of criticism gets loud enough, men will change -- that seems to be the thinking. But this thinking fails in multiple ways. First, it is founded on notions of group guilt; that somehow, all men are responsible for what some men do. But the idea of group guilt is the go-to myth for the worst bigots and human rights violators in the world. Second, although common among progressives, the habit of attacking men as a group selectively applies to men the fundamental conservative myth that a high rate of some socially toxic or anti-social behavior among members of a group does not merely reflect social forces or conditioning acting on that group, but instead can be understood in terms of the individual free-will choices that reflect individual moral worth. Thus, efforts to understand why high rates of toxic behaviors may exist among men as a group in terms of the social forces and systemic pressures that affect men as a group, instead of in terms of moral condemnation, are interpreted as sympathy for the toxic behavior. Finally, it incorporates a false analogy between gender oppression and other forms of oppression, such as race or class oppression -- that with gender oppression, just as with race or class oppression, there is an "oppressor" group and an "oppressed" group, and they are mutually exclusive. Gender oppression is assumed to be a zero-sum game where men are always and only the oppressors, and women are always and only the oppressed. There is no room for the idea that both men and women can be oppressed by gender systems, or the idea that the behavior of both men and women can contribute to gender oppression. So in sum, our task is much bigger than just trying to get the Reddit moderators to treat hate-speech directed at men the same as they treat hate-speech directed as women. We must persistently call out notions of group guilt; we must seek to understand male and female behavior scientifically instead of in moral terms; and we must insist on a more nuanced understanding of gender oppression that incorporates men's actual experience and assumes that men and women are moral equals.

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't agree more with what you've said and am humbled by your density of thought.

So please know what I've done below is in the spirit of ensuring your voice reaches as many people as possible.

While I suspect you're not someone to be put off by a block of words, I've found that this is the case for the majority of Reddit users. So I've just opened up what you said with a bit of spacing and let it breathe in a way that's more appealing to Redditors and probably the majority of your audience anywhere.

In the end, though, just a friendly suggestion. Thanks again for your reply.


Attacking men as a group has been a habit for a long time in feminist and "progressive" circles.

Both men and women in progressive circles engage in these attacks. They don't see it as harmful; in fact, they see it as socially constructive.

Men need to stop oppressing women, and maybe if the chorus of criticism gets loud enough, men will change -- that seems to be the thinking.

But this thinking fails in multiple ways.

First, it is founded on notions of group guilt; that somehow, all men are responsible for what some men do. But the idea of group guilt is the go-to myth for the worst bigots and human rights violators in the world.

Second, although common among progressives, the habit of attacking men as a group selectively applies to men the fundamental conservative myth that a high rate of some socially toxic or anti-social behavior among members of a group does not merely reflect social forces or conditioning acting on that group, but instead can be understood in terms of the individual free-will choices that reflect individual moral worth.

Thus, efforts to understand why high rates of toxic behaviors may exist among men as a group in terms of the social forces and systemic pressures that affect men as a group, instead of in terms of moral condemnation, are interpreted as sympathy for the toxic behavior.

Finally, it incorporates a false analogy between gender oppression and other forms of oppression, such as race or class oppression -- that with gender oppression, just as with race or class oppression, there is an "oppressor" group and an "oppressed" group, and they are mutually exclusive.

Gender oppression is assumed to be a zero-sum game where men are always and only the oppressors, and women are always and only the oppressed. There is no room for the idea that both men and women can be oppressed by gender systems, or the idea that the behavior of both men and women can contribute to gender oppression.

So in sum, our task is much bigger than just trying to get the Reddit moderators to treat hate-speech directed at men the same as they treat hate-speech directed as women.

We must persistently call out notions of group guilt; we must seek to understand male and female behavior scientifically instead of in moral terms; and we must insist on a more nuanced understanding of gender oppression that incorporates men's actual experience and assumes that men and women are moral equals.

[–]philinspirit 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow, thank you. The white space really makes it much, much more readable. I'll try to remember to incorporate ample paragraph breaks in future posts and comments. And I'll try to pay more attention to the issue of readability in general. I tend to get immersed in analytical thinking and forget that I'm communicating with actual humans!

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I kinda suspected that might be the case but hey more people will be reading and thinking about what you're writing now and that's a good things for men's advocacy.

[–]Peptocoptr 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Beautifully put

[–]WeEatBabiesleft-wing male advocate 10 points11 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

If you think that's bad, I reported this comment :

https://np.reddit.com/r/ABoringDystopia/comments/v0bkrz/americas_next_top_school_shooter/iafy3db/

Reads : "...These sorry ass crackers need to go."

It's both racist and a possible an incitement to commit violence/kill white people or at the very least forcibly remove them from the country!(still violence)

Reddit mod said it did not violate any rules, same copy pasted reply you got!

Reddit is a misandrist and racist website!

[–]AutoModerator[M] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Reminder everyone - Don't brigade the crossposted sub. It's against Reddit rules.

To document instances of misandry, consider these options:

1) take screenshots and upload them to Imgur
2) archive the page using a site like https://archive.vn/
3) crosspost the link to a dedicated subreddit like /r/everydaymisandry

You can also report misandry directly to the admins here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]WeEatBabiesleft-wing male advocate 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I posted the link with the www replaced by np : np.reddit.com/RestOfTheLink

This new reddit feature prevents brigading, you guys need to update your bot/policies.

[–]Kuato2012left-wing male advocate 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We appreciate the np link, and we're aware of how they work. Men's forums are particularly vulnerable to attack by ideologues and eventually getting banned, so we feel the automatic bot message is still necessary to help protect ourselves.

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Reminder everyone - Don't brigade the crossposted sub. It's against Reddit rules.

To document instances of misandry, consider these options:

1) take screenshots and upload them to Imgur
2) archive the page using a site like https://archive.vn/
3) crosspost the link to a dedicated subreddit like /r/everydaymisandry

You can also report misandry directly to the admins here.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]WeEatBabiesleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And that was a made up link :D

[–]fishkrate 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That covered up for a pedophile.

[–]PassedPawn_ 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

How is that worse? Do white people in the West get killed for being white?

[–]WeEatBabiesleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

How is that worse?

Worse than the comment OP reported.

Do white people in the West get killed for being white?

Why should we limit our advocacy to the west? ... However, I was talking about Reddit's site wide rules which are racist and sexist, not people getting killed.

[–]PassedPawn_1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Worse than the comment OP reported

Doesn't seem like that to me. Men are systemically discriminated against. Not sure about wypipo though.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Removed because of racial slur.

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

More white people are killed by cops than black people. Yes it's disproportional but acting like police brutality doesn't affect white people is not only ignorant, it's disrespectful to the victims.

Also, a society where it's socially acceptable to shit on white people but only ever be nothing but supportive towards every other race is harmful to white people.

It has nothing to do with them being white and everything to do with them being people. Any group of human being is going to suffer under such emotional abuse and white people aren't even allowed to talk about it or object to it without people like you invalidating their experiences.

[–]Valoxity-_- 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Overwhelmingly male victims aswell. Thing is if you look at the percentages of black victims compared to white victims its probably slightly higher, but the total amount of white men affected is maybe larger.

[–]OrwellianHell 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Channeling Chomsky...

Either you object to attackjng people as a group, or you don't. There is no in-between. You adhere to the principle, or you implicitly believe that it is okay to attack any group as a group.

[–]MelissaMiranti 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, that's not appropriate. Attacking a group for a choice that's definitional to that group is appropriate if the choice is harmful. I can attack racists all day because the choice to say and do things that are racially biased is harmful. Attacking a group for something not chosen, something not definitional to the choice, or a choice not harmful is wrong.

[–]OrwellianHell 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Okay, replace "group" with demographic".

[–]MelissaMiranti 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what makes the difference.

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I use 'identity type' or 'identity group' for the same reason.

[–]bottleblank 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you'll find that autism is, in fact, a disability, and autistic people as a group are typically and, rightly, considered vulnerable.

Just a thought.

Edit: I don't know how this comment was interpreted, but to clarify: the image appears to contain the use of the word "autistic" as an insult. This would, presumably, be a violation - albeit perhaps a minor one - of the stated rule that vulnerable (in this case disabled/developmentally challenged) people are to be protected by Reddit's moderation staff.

[–]froupapourf 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I remember seeing this hateful comment and I reported it.

[–]peanutbutterjamsleft-wing male advocate[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for doing it. There's only so long people can deny the obvious truth.

[–]palescope -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are disposable

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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