No more stigmatization of masculinity!

TheLWMA · 2021-11-09T19:03:30+00:00

To be honest, Masculinity is an extremely vague term. Toxic Masculinity is an even more vague term.

Blauwpetje · 2021-11-09T21:54:39+00:00

I feel like you've answered the question well.

Celebrate all kinds of men and boys - those who are more comfortable with traditional traits and those who are not. Encourage exploration of traditional traits - they developed for a reason - but always challenge the human tendency to make "good"s into "should"s.

I think it's useful to reframe masculinity as a kind of potential energy rather than a club that you have to join. Like musical talent or athletic talent. All men and boys can access this potential energy, play with it, enjoy it, put it to use, but you choose how much and when.

Ausiwandilaz · 2021-11-09T23:40:47+00:00

Masculinity is unique that it's actually has to be developed, and that can be developed into all kinds of good ways. In fact the Y chromosome is unique within its self. Forgot who said this but " where a woman is born, a man is made" (not sure if I quoted correctly).

BloomingBrains · 2021-11-10T07:54:04+00:00

On the other hand, 'traditional' masculine traits are not toxic or a disease.

The key word is 'traditional'. All those things you're talking about used to be thought of as male-only virtues, and that is where I think a lot of the disconnect comes from. For instance:

They are brave, competitive, curious, persistent, risk-ready, strong, and stoical

All of those traits could apply equally to women without them being any less feminine. I can think of tons of women I know personally as well as famous that embodied them, and I don't think anyone would look at those women and think they're not feminine. So, clearly, a modern egalitarian can't seriously talk this way. With the exception of perhaps 'stoical', I think that they are traits which should be promoted in both genders.

I also think this is a good time to mention Aristotelian virtue ethics. It states there is not just one ideal of being "brave", for instance. Rather, there is a continuum of bravery, with cowardice at one end and recklessness at the other, with true bravery being in the middle. Clearly, it is bad to be a coward, but is it not also bad to be idiotically brave? Traditional masculine values would sometimes fall into this latter category, I think. And that could be called toxic.

Of course, so can saying "men just need to open up more". My feeling on that is like..."well, yeah, maybe, if someone is around you who genuinely cares to listen". You don't want to just incautiously make yourself vulnerable either.

We can do the same thing with traditionally feminine traits. I'm sure many people would consider 'empathetic' to be a positive trait. And there were many men who were supremely empathetic, like Ghandi. Would anyone say he wasn't a masculine man because he wasn't mowing down English troops with a machinegun? But even empathy is a continuum. One can be so empathetic they forgive grievous crimes that should never be forgiven, or they can be completely cold and heartless.

It just makes so much more sense to me to not gender this pointlessly.

Title	No more stigmatization of masculinity!
Author	Blauwpetje
Upvotes	47
Comments	22
Date	November 9, 2021 11:14 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/qq1hf7/no_more_stigmatization_of_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/no-more-stigmatization-of-masculinity.1085073 https://theredarchive.com/post/1085073