Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"

majora31 · 2020-08-16T22:26:25+00:00

saying its ok to cry is not mutually exclusive to solving those other issues. feeling like you cant express your emotions is a phenomenon that effects men which is rooted in a SOCIAL NORM. that means that the only solution to this PARTICULAR problem is to spread the idea that men can cry

whosthatcreep · 2020-08-16T23:02:07+00:00

A lot of that stuff is just concern trolling. The implication is always "dude, just let go of your toxic male entitlement and stop blaming society for your own problems" while every issue women face supposedly comes from unfair outside factors they can't control.

Deadly_Duplicator · 2020-08-16T22:11:38+00:00

The reason men don't (or ought not) cry is because women lose all respect for men who do. I have no studies to prove this, only my experience with women. It is an ugly and unattractive thing to women but they will never admit it if asked about it

yefkoy · 2020-08-16T22:42:56+00:00

When one says that it is okay to cry, one does not necessarily say that is the only thing you should do. This is a strawman.

azazelcrowley · 2020-08-18T13:03:00+00:00

There's times it's appropriate to bring up and times it isn't, and I far more often see the latter. It's also never framed in the appropriate context and discussed who exactly is teaching boys not to cry (mothers) and is instead left implied that men are simply deciding not to out of the blue. There's also a strong element of female privilege in the assumption that it's just a matter of "Opening up" and "Deciding to do it" rather than it being a result of years of ingrained training and conditioning that leaves many men incapable of doing it, not merely deciding not to. (Largely because if the latter is acknowledged we'd have to examine the source of that training and be critical of women.). As I said elsewhere; "It's okay to walk" she said after she breaks your legs.

It's a "Just don't be poor, problem solved" attitude that ignores the reasons it's in place and how it's not that simple.

As such the attitude is not merely used to derail discussion of mens issues in the manner the OP indicates, but is an expression of female privilege and a total lack of awareness of mens experiences. Moreover it fails to correctly identify who society should be instructing to change their behavior. We say "We need to tell men it's okay to open up more/it's okay to get a job and be less poor" instead of "We need to tell women to stop psychologically abusing male children".

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-mothers-have-boys-dont-cry-bias-new-study-suggests/

This kind of framing is something women are keenly aware of when it comes to victim blaming women and telling them to "Stop dressing like sluts and you won't get raped" and so on, but they immediately forget it when it comes time to be consistent and take responsibility for their own negative behaviors that they victim blame men over.

"Teach men not to rape" rather than "Teach women not to be raped." But "Teach men it's okay to cry" instead of "Teach women not to abuse children.".

The reason for the inconsistency is gynocentrism. As I noted, it's especially egregious given that they're essentially breaking mens legs and then telling them to walk. It's not simply a matter of "just open up" and thinking it is is a result of women not having mens upbringing and experiences where the ability to do that is actively curtailed and withered away. Walking seems simple to someone with legs.

There's a hundred ways you can object to the attitude and the term and it says an awful lot that feminists think they're "caring about men too" when they peddle it.

_scheme · 2020-08-16T19:57:54+00:00

This is really interesting. I'd never thought about it that way (the title of your post).

I also like how you said "We never tell women to cry about their problems". Which is true - because it's assumed that women are fragile, more emotional. That cultural expectation seems sexist as well.

If I may add something cautiously - I'm new to this forum, and I don't want to step in a mine field...

When people say "it's OK to cry" - I interpret that as a shorthand for: "It's OK for men to express vulnerability."

When we men feel that we can't look weak, and that we must hide weakness at any cost, that doesn't help our own mental health, either.

Some men really do need to be reminded of that. They're torn apart by conflict but are too proud or ashamed to seek help.

At the same time, you have a point too. Women aren't the only ones with institutional and legal battles.

GaborFrame · 2020-08-17T23:53:48+00:00

I am not sure if "it's okay to cry" ever referred to any actual men's issues, or if it's more about, say, watching the movie Titanic.

azazelcrowley · 2020-08-18T10:10:48+00:00

You can get some women to cotton on to this if they pull it on you by getting them discuss womens issues and just spamming them with "It's okay to cry about it" and derailing any suggestions they make for actual solutions.

Some of them will throw a tantrum, some of them will have a realization of what a cunt they have been to men by doing that.

PsychoPhilosopher · 2020-08-16T19:53:28+00:00

The issues you list are all valid problems that need to be addressed. But as you said, men also struggle with a stigma that showing emotions is not manly and reinforcing the idea that everybody is allowed to cry will hopefully help to eliminate this stigma.

It won't solve the other problems but this utterance was never directed at that.

Sonic-Oj · 2020-08-17T01:07:11+00:00

We never tell women to cry about their problems, instead we create committees, conferences and reserve billions of dollars from tax payer money or private charity to solve them.

We change laws and policy.

What do you mean by this? How are we using "committees, conferences, laws, policy and BILLIONS of dollars" to solve women's problems? This is incredibly ambiguous. Additionally, these aren't mutually exclusive. We can solve male issues on a legislative level, while promoting a cultural change on how we deal with men showing emotion.

Why not doing the same with men ?! how crying will solve the problem of men who can't see their children ?

Again, you act like these two options are mutually exclusive. We can stop scrutinizing men for crying, and provide legislative change in dealing with male issues. Additionally, the purpose of crying isn't to solve problems. We cry because it's a natural response to heightened emotion.

how crying will help men who are forced to pay child support even when DNA test prove he is not the father ?

When does this happen? Are men forced to pay child support for children that aren't their biological relative?

how crying will help a man who was victim of workplace discrimination and less competent woman get the job to fill gender quota?

In what instances have incredibly qualified men been rejected for less qualified women? Additionally, finding the "best candidate" for a job is a lot more complicated than people make it out to be. Who’s the better software engineer, the one who writes code with fewer mistakes, the one who understands the customers needs best, or the one that understands upper management and knows how to get funding for a project? My point is that there is multiple factors that come into choosing the "best" candidate.

2020-08-19T19:21:00+00:00

They tell men it is okay to cry, but don't give a fuck about why a man is crying.

RobbyHawkes · 2020-08-16T22:54:44+00:00

I don't think it is quite so coercive as "man up", but it is hopelessly naïve. It's a bit like telling women "just ask for that pay rise, go for that CEO job". Yeah, maybe they should, but there's often a lifetime of conditioning in the way to deal with first.

Cookiedoughjunkie · 2020-08-16T23:44:41+00:00

I've seen it a little different. A lot of people who say that, then laugh at those who do cry.

B4pti5t · 2020-08-17T01:02:27+00:00

I really disagree with this opinion, I would really love being able to cry out my issues (and/or my happiness/emotions) with friends. It's not that I don't want to, but it's really blocked inside me. I still think I cry a lot for man, because I work on it. I know about it's healing power, and I would really continue to encourage other men, and society, to understand that a man crying is not "beautiful", neither "unique", but a chemical reaction that helps the brain to balance some excess of emotions (there are some papers related to that would explain it much better).

And like others commenters said, one doesn't prevent having large scale policies and campaigns about men's issues. One could even dare to say that men crying in a more open manner, could actually help for everybody to have more empathy and awareness about men's issues.

BakerNowitzki · 2020-08-17T01:58:06+00:00

I think it just depends on how you see it. The term does sound condescending but I think it's meant to be sincere and saying you can express your emotions

Title	Telling men "it's okay to cry" is just another way to tell men "man up"
Author	OkLetterhead9
Upvotes	76
Comments	61
Date	August 16, 2020 7:17 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/iaygwd/telling_men_its_okay_to_cry_is_just_another_way/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/telling-men-its-okay-to-cry-is-just-another-way-to.1062962 https://theredarchive.com/post/1062962