This is mainly a rant post but does anyone else feel this way? (I use air quotes around male of course because there isn’t any inherent reason it has to be that way, just like with most gender roles.)
My whole post-puberty life, I’ve felt so dissatisfied with the fact that I’m expected to strive hard to impress girls/women, but they don’t have to do the same for me. Sometimes it feels like I’m jester, desperately trying to perform for the favor of a dispassionate monarch. Hoping against hope that I’ll be the one that gets picked. It’s not exciting. It’s really stressful, actually, and I don’t know how many women realize just how stressful it is.
If I could flip the gender roles and get to be the one that gets approached, gets made to feel special and desired, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Anyone would be crazy not to.
I wonder why this isn’t being talked about more in society. Do other guys just not care about this? That certainly seems to be the case. Most seem to content to constantly go “on the hunt” as they say. But I really don’t get it. It gets incredibly dull.
Im not shy about admitting that I’m not a guy who has had a successful record with women (to put it mildly). So maybe I wouldn’t feel this way if my feelings had ever been reciprocated? I just don’t know. The way many relationships are depicted on TV make it seem like romantic gestures in the context of a relationship are still mainly done for a man to show his love (re: Valentine’s day but no equivalent Holiday for men) but not the other way around. One might say that romance as well as desire are processes only women get be beneficiaries of, I suppose.
Feminists love to talk about how objectifying it is for women to be sexualized but I’d imagine it must actually feel very empowering and validating. Knowing that you are loved or at least wanted.
Sometimes being a man feels like being a boring gray blob to me that just gets to sit there and want but doesn’t have ever get to be wanted because there is nothing desirable about him. Of course I think there are objective reasons why I have value, but I have flawed human psychology like anyone else that requires validation from other humans. I wish I didn’t require it, but I do.
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5 9 and a half. Decent looking but not great. Have been rejected and given the reason verbally being based on looks alone in the past. 37 and thought I was past the age where women make it easy for me.
And no I didnt initiate anything. No one pursued anything. Just had some nice conversations and enjoyed each others company.
Seriously the list of things said by me that were remotely flirtatious were the following.
Hey, is there somewhere else we can go that's nice like this but doesn't have mosquitos?
I like that color on you it suits you.
Is this ok? resting my legs on her legs while on a couch
I'd hold you tonight.
That isn't pursuit. Seriously, it's like you guys want to be wooed, despite fully understanding the problem with women wanting to be wooed. No one has to woo anyone. You can be selective and picky without playing childish games. I think that's actually the trick, is just be glad to have their company without pursuing anything more and women will decide for themselves what they want with you. They like attention but cannot trust men their pursue them and give lots of attention. Give compliments and attention sparsely.
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"Oh for sure talking with women just for the sake will get you friendships. The problem is in taking it to the next step, because that is also 100% on the guy to initiate and escalate, and 100% on her to reject the guy if she doesn't want to.
It's just a rational reaction to the claim that women want equality. If they want equality, then they should also want to pursue as much as they are pursued. If they do not want that, then what women want is equality when they are disadvantaged, and keep all the advantages when it benefits them."
Ok, the other quotes of yours I quoted I am more in agreement with, but this, I gotta say is in the box thinking. Yea its a rational reaction to that, but its a childish well two can play that game kind of reaction. No one has to pursue. I did not pursue, she did not pursue. And no women don't risk rejection themselves by asking you directly to fuck them. But for them it isn't rejection of the offer that is what they risk, they risk no longer being respected much more than men and if they actually like a guy this fear is far more present. But if she really gives you a hint that she will say yes, with a straight face, not making a joke, you aren't really risking rejection by being the one that asks. Women that would toy with men in that way are easy to spot and avoid. Theyre the ones that demand attention.
"This works if you don't want more, but if you do want more, that's not terribly helpful advice. It's like "if you want a girlfriend, just don't act like you want one, and don't try to get a girlfriend, and then maybe if you're lucky at some point a girlfriend will find you within the next 5 years". That's just not terribly helpful to find a partner. Great for finding friends, but that's not really what this thread is about."
I think better advice would be to say that if you want meaningful connection with women, pursue that. If you specify the goal as a girlfriend you will fail. If the goal is the connection itself, and you force nothing, you may be surprised how much women might value that connection.
"This is absolutely valuable advice. Men have to stop treating women like the prize, and stop giving them all the attention and compliments women want. Men have to hold themselves back and only give compliments and attention to those women who earn it or deserve it."
I'd say give only authentic compliments. Not just be choosy about to who, but what compliments. Compliment them on the parts of their personalities you actually like, and why you are drawn to them.
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