What Do You Think About Dr. Shawn Smith's Advice Not To Date Feminists?

Quit_social_media · 2022-01-02T08:33:32+00:00

Depends if they are open minded or not. The problem with most feminists is that they can be very militant, automatically seeing you as the enemy, seeing you as a misogynistic hater whom oppresses women (which of course isn't the case), so many of them probably won't give you the time day whether you actually wanted any choice in dating them in the first place.

The less openly hostile ones are...well, they are interesting and more varied to say the least. Some of the ones that are willing date, will often try to subtly coerce, shame, or lump me into their camp by default. One of the most annoying things I've often dealt with dating a couple of feminists is them telling me I actually am feminist whether I disagree with the label or not. The: "if you believe in equality, then congratulations you're a feminist" line of argument. It's like I'm not even entitled to my own political identity! No nuance. No deviation. It's black and white. And if am to identify or strive to be a good person, then I am by default a feminist.

In regards to one feminist I dated, she was a nice girl. But she kept verbally lumping me as a defacto feminist despite me rejecting the label. It's the attitude: you're one of us because you are too good a person to not be a feminist. She wasn't horrible or anything. But she kept laughing it off, saying "oh yes you are". "You just don't know it yet". "You don't realise it". She could not seperate my respect for women from her philosophy of feminism, because in her worldview they are synonymous with each other.

However, if you are considering dating somebody that seems very open, very intellectually and emotionally aware, then it can be to yours and hers benefit. The moment a feminist opens her heart to other perspectives, she become an egolitarian. The irony of which, she becomes as of, instead of a feminist in my own mind whether she accepts the label or not.

DekajaSukunda · 2022-01-03T01:12:43+00:00

Well I'm a gay man who used to mostly hang out with women. I was in 3 female-dominated whatsapp groups. I was "one of the gals".

The conversations I read... The things they said about their boyfriends...

Look, here's the thing. A feminist by herself is probably not that much of an issue. But if her entire close group of friends are feminists, be aware: You're not just dating her, you're dating the entire group. They will tell their friends everything about you. Your dick size, your erectile problems, your traumas, everything. I was constantly in awe by this. How little respect they had for their boyfriends' privacy.

We could say this is an issue with a lot of women in general, regardless of whether they identify as feminist or not. Maybe that's true, I haven't been in such groups. But within feminist circles, I can tell you there's this misandry and man-blaming thing that makes them particularly toxic.

You had a fight with her? She'll tell her side of the story, and her friends will fill in all the blanks to make you look bad. If her friends get too hateful and she stars trying to argue in your favor, her friends will step in to change her mind. The woman is always right, the man is always abusive. There is literally not a correct way to be a boyfriend. Even if you're an absolutely subservient simp, they'll have a problem with that. Men are trash and boyfriends are an unnecessary shitty burden that ocassionally serves a few purposes. That's all you are to them.

I kept wondering, why the fuck are they even in a relationship if all they ever do is complain about it? That's when I found out... it's because that's the whole point. They just want something to complain about. Someone to blame. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

I was in 3 female-dominated whatsapp groups. This was true for 2 and a half of them. I say "half" of one because that group was the smallest one, so the echo chambers were less loud and my voice carried more weight there. I didn't even bother trying to argue in the guy's favor in the other 2 because I'd get shut down or ignored.

That's all the advice I can give you... When you're dating a woman, pay attention to her friends. It's important for her to have friends. I'm not saying you should isolate her from them or anything. But pay attention to them. Because those women will know everything about you and she'll follow their advice thoroughly. If you don't like her friends then I'm telling you: You'll start hating her too sooner rather than later.

politicsthrowaway230 · 2022-01-02T21:04:05+00:00

Many of the objectionable feminists are fairly nice people that get caught up. There is a sizeable proportion of them that are genuinely terrible people and actively lead others astray but they are nowhere near the majority.

Even those that are insufferable on internet debate have more normal views irl. Some even flip - I know a few people who post quite "woke" stuff and then hang around with (or even date) rightlibs, and on the extreme end idolise traditionalism in private, or even make misogynistic jokes. I think the takeaway is that someone's social media presence is more representative of the internet people who they want to impress, not who they are.

SamaelET · 2022-01-02T22:07:13+00:00

I can't be with someone believing in "Patriarchy".

Enzi42 · 2022-01-03T23:08:43+00:00

Sort of chiming in here, since this is something, I've given a lot of thought to.

It's going to be long; I didn't mean to write a whole essay...

TLDR: Feminist beliefs are a dealbreaker since I feel a large number of them see men are a group of oppressors, which by itself means they see you through that lens. Furthermore, if forced into a situation where they have to choose you or something that follows a feministic belief or benefits "womankind" there is a high degree they will turn on you.

More detailed explanations for those interested:

The simple answer is that no, I could never date a woman or man who identifies as a feminist. I don't mean that they believe in the generalized men and women should be equals before the law and in society mantra---that has become such a mainstream part of society that it seems commonsensical at this point.

What I mean is that I refuse to date a believer in patriarchy theory and the views of an oppressor/oppressed dynamic when it comes to men and women. There are two reasons for this. One is entirely emotional while the other is still emotional but largely practical.

The emotional reason is that I cannot bring myself to have any kind of tender relationships with someone who views me as somehow "lesser" or that I come from a lesser/inferior/inherently evil group, even if I am somehow one of the "good ones". I would compare it to me dating a white supremacist who doesn't hate black people but still thinks of us as intellectually and morally inferior.

He or she might love me but still view me as a lesser being, or as "a credit to the race" or some such nonsense. The very thought of being emotionally and physically intimate and vulnerable with a person like that somehow manages to my skin crawl while also making me irrationally angry at the same time.

It's no different with feminists---no matter what they may say or claim, most of them seem to view men as a group of devilish oppressors. Some think we should pay for our actions, some think we should be "rehabilitated", and so on and so forth into an infinite number of conclusions. But it all stems from the same toxic root. I won't engage with someone who believes that about a group I come from, an inherent part of who I am.

The second more practical reason I wouldn't date a feminist is due to trust. In order for me to form a romantic relationship with someone, I need to trust them. I need to know that they will be loyal to me, that they will have my back when times get tough and be there through thick and thin. I don't just mean the bare minimum of not cheating, I mean that if I get into trouble, they will lend emotional support if nothing else, as I would do the same for them.

At the risk of going down a toxic rabbit hole, something I have noticed a lot on relationship advice pages is when a woman's husband/boyfriend/partner is accused of sexual misconduct, there is a lot of conflict in her mind as to whether or not she should condemn him and support the alleged victim as a "fellow woman" or if she should stand by him. The woman asking this will usually cite being a believer in feminism and being torn between her beliefs and her love for her partner.

A number of answers are always given to this question, but my opinion is that the asker has already failed. She should support her boyfriend since he is...well, you know, the person she is partnered with. Unless of course he is abusive or she has credible reason to think he is a sexual offender, she should stand by him. I can't imagine abandoning a partner because of an accusation against her. Now, I don't have a real fear of being falsely accused of anything personally, but it is the principal of that complete lack of loyalty that bothers me.

The second part of this and more concerning is how I have seen some feminist women talk about their male children and the way they interact with them. That is a whole can of worms on its own, but it seems some of them are more concerned about the way their sons will grow up to interact with hypothetical future women and prioritize the wellbeing of those future women over their children's current wellbeing. If I were to settle down with a person like that and we had a son...

So anyway, no I wouldn't date a feminist at least not until I had a firm grasp on just where she stood and how deep those beliefs ran.

Motanul_Negru · 2022-01-02T10:54:36+00:00

I actually recommend making this a strict deal breaker, at least if your intentions are any kind of serious. Even if she passes all of Dr Smith's litmus tests, as long as she's calling herself a feminist, she's basically advertising that she's at the most risk of adopting more of feminism in the future.

Call me paranoid (I do it, and proudly) but that's not the kind of risk I want in my life.

UnHope20 · 2022-01-02T06:07:18+00:00

Doctor Shawn T. Smith lays out a succinct argument to viewers that men shouldn't date feminists.

What do you all think about his argument? Does it seem sound and rational?

I'm a bit divided because I think that it could work if the woman/man in question is open minded and tolerant of diverse opinions. But I also think that it is incredibly dangerous to sleep in the same bed as someone who legitimately believes that you are their oppressor by default or at best "One of the good ones".

Full disclosure, I have dated a feminist in the past and it was for the most part ok. Sans the fact I was pushed into doing stuff I didn't necessarily feel comfortable with sexually. But that has been the case with non-feminists I've dated as well.

Overall, I think that the average feminist in well intentioned. However, I can't say that I would date one because I have found that their rhetorical tactics and ideology don't seem like ingredients to a healthy and functional family.

MastermindX · 2022-01-02T12:37:44+00:00

>Should a black person date a white supremacist?

quokka29 · 2022-01-02T08:23:03+00:00

I liked the video. I didn’t agree with everything he said, probably about 90-95% I agree with, but that’s ok. He seems genuine and well intentioned. Like someone you could have a pleasant discussion or disagreement with.

I think he made some good points about hostility and aggression. And how some feminists can approach the topic of gender in that way. I would date a feminist, because at the core of many feminists beliefs/actions, is a desire to help humanity, women. Like the doc in the video stated, I think he called them something like ‘everyday feminists, egalitarians’. But they would have to be able to have the ability to think critically and change update their beliefs. Also, people who are hostile and aggressive aren’t people I want to be intimate with, so if they’re on that wavelength, we wouldn’t be a good match.

Btw, you always have well thought out and clearly written comments, greatly appreciated.

Effective_Secret3664 · 2022-01-02T18:22:41+00:00

You need healthy relationships

aerial_coitus · 2022-01-02T23:59:29+00:00

Should You Date a Feminist?

No.

Strikes001 · 2022-01-04T16:22:04+00:00

As someone who does not ever want kids, I might not have much of a choice other than to date a feminist lol...

UnHope20 · 2022-01-02T16:23:07+00:00

[permanently deleted]

UnHope20 · 2022-01-02T13:52:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	What Do You Think About Dr. Shawn Smith's Advice Not To Date Feminists?
Author	UnHope20
Upvotes	33
Comments	64
Date	January 2, 2022 5:46 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ru2whg/what_do_you_think_about_dr_shawn_smiths_advice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/what-do-you-think-about-dr-shawn-smiths-advice-not.1093240 https://theredarchive.com/post/1093240