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What type of society do we live in: Patriarchal or Gynocentrist?

May 2, 2021
10 upvotes

You guys are probably gonna go with the latter, but I want to hear differing opinions.

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[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (3 children) | Copy Link

If you're going to say patriarchal, then please define what the term means for you. Evidence would also be good.

[–]Powerful-Building833 19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

They are not even mutually exclusive. I think a gynocentric patriarchy would be a society where men have power and control over women but they prioritize the safety and well-being of women over that of men. That's basically what the past was like, women were more limited in their life choices but men did the brunt of the hard and dangerous work and sacrificed themselves in wars to provide for and protect women and children. The opposite of gynocentrism would be androcentrism and that would mean men are seen as more valuable and their needs would be prioritized while in a matriarchy women would hold power over men. I think today we have neither a patriarchy nor a matriarchy, but society is still pretty biased towards gynocentrism because female suffering receives much more attention and support than that of men.

[–]RedSandmanleft-wing male advocate 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this pretty much sums up the way I see it, too. Nicely put.

[–]twice_punished_jannyleft-wing male advocate 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Capitalist.

[–]purebredginger_ 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yup. Capitalism is, in my opinion, the entire reason that sexism and gender roles exist, for everyone, male female or nb.

Capitalists used to value men and women in different roles because of the differences biologically, men could work hard labor easier, and women could raise the next generation of workers easier. It was efficient. Still morally wrong to force people into these boxes, but they were capitalists, they didn't care.

But after the industrial revolution and into the modern age there's less and less reason to have gender roles at all, even for efficiency's sake. Women can operate machinery just the same way men can, and men can just buy formula to raise children, boobs aren't a necessity anymore. That's the reason that gender roles are starting to go away.

But capitalists don't want male gender roles to go away. Women entering the workforce makes capitalists money, but men leaving it loses them money. So men are still expected to cling to sexism against them like their life depends on it. It's been getting better recently but there's a reason why feminism happened before men's activism, it's capitalism.

(As for sexism against nbs, capitalists force nbs to pretend that they're either male or female, because people lying outside the gender binary also decreases efficiency for them.)

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Capitalism is, in my opinion, the entire reason that sexism and gender roles exist

Gender roles have existed way, way longer than capitalism. We even inherited those from our non-human ancestors. Unless you want to argue that mammals in general have capitalism, that argument is invalid.

I would agree tho that feminism is a tool used by the capitalists in power to divide the poorer masses.

[–]MeasurementRealistic 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think were in both if "Patriarchal" is defined as "relating to or denoting a system of society or government controlled by men" and "Gynocentrist" defined as "a dominant focus on women".

Most governments are ran by men and are quite focused on solving womens issues. Not solely but rather dominantly.

Actually not quite sure if I could say the government is controlled by men since it's really controlled by the voter and the average voter is apparently female. They just keep voting men in.

Personally I don't quite understand what a feminist means by "patriarchy" because they use it to imply things that it can't really do. I also think that they think a government filled with men benefits men because they are projecting their own in-group bias on to men.

They're basically thinking "Well if women (They're really thinking "I" instead of "Women") were running society we would run it solely for the benefit of women so obviously that's what men would do too."

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think were in both if "Patriarchal" is defined as "relating to or denoting a system of society or government controlled by men"

But our society isn't controlled by men. Women have equal votes and opportunities.

[–]McNultyLikesJameson 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Neither.

Although there's definitely aspects of society that skew in either direction.

I do think there's a general view in society that women are more precious, so problems that affect them are intolerable, while problems that affect men are just life.

On the other side, women are less involved in the higher status and powerful positions in society than men.

[–]Thor496 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Patriarchy is a joke.

Gynocentrism is the truth no one wants to acknowledge. They say feminism means equality. What else can I say?

[–]Bambaleila 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We live in a capitalist society, it does not care about both men and women, even more - it encourages hate between us, and such question being asked is an example of system working perfect.

[–]bkrugby78 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's more of a feminized patriarchy. Like, men still hold the top positions in companies and government, overwhelmingly. But, access for women has been broadened, to the point where there are fewer and fewer barriers for women to achieve those positions. Hence, women governors, representatives, judges, cops, CEOS, etc.

Society struggles to catch up with these changes though. While women have more agency than they used to, it's still perfectly understandable for a woman to get married, quit her job and be a housewife/mom, etc. While there have been changes in offering support for women, men are mostly ignored. Since, the view of "patriarchy" is that men hold the power, and for those top men it is true, for the rest of men, it's like they are forgotten/ignored.

[–]purebredginger_ 1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

It's a gynocentrist patriarchy. We should get rid of both aspects of that.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

How is our society a patriarchy?

[–]-Metaethics 1 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Patriarchy definition according to Merriam-webster: "control by men of a disproportionately large share of power:

Literally, every president ever has been a male, most of congress is male and most judges are also men. Most CEOs are men...

Granted, men suffer at the bottom but that still doesn't change the fact that we live in a patriarchy.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Women can vote, can run for all political offices, and can become CEOs. These things are not controlled by men in our society. As such, we do not live in a patriarchy.

[–]-Metaethics 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

A patriarchy is solely defined by a disproportionate control by men, whether or not women are allowed to do the same is irrelevant.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But that means men do not control it. Women are not excluded.

[–]HPUnicorn 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You just posted the definition and it doesn't say disproportionate control by men.

[–]-Metaethics 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Patriarchy definition according to Merriam-webster: "control by men of a disproportionately large share of power:

Except, I literally did..?

[–]HPUnicorn 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think I misread your post, sorry.

[–]-Metaethics 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

no problem :)

[–]HPUnicorn 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So if you added up ALL the men you just mentioned presidents, congress , judges and CEOs (talking in the US here) you would have maybe a couple thousand, now on the other side you have a couple hundred million men who have virtually no real power, that sure doesn't sound like men have a LARGE share of power as a group.

[–]CoffeehasSentience -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, even if those men in power did everything they could for women and didn't give a shit about men, it'd still be Patriarchy.

I actually think because it is a Patriarchy and men are more competitive (thus, men help men less than men help women or women help women) it makes a case for men being left out.

[–]-Metaethics 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think a lot of men's rights activists have trouble admitting this is because feminists have popularized a totally different meaning of the word 'patriarchy'

It's a really good rhetorical trick.

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is exactly the motte-and-bailey switcheroo that feminists often deploy that forms the reason why this sub discourages use of the term patriarchy.

[–]-Metaethics 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Understandable!

[–]BitsAndBobs304 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both. But while it could be different, patriarchal gynocentrism is the state of most animals

[–]Justice_is_a_scam 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Which society?

If you think the society I live in here in Australia is comparable to the society that I lived in Colombia, so much so that we can categorize them into a dichotomy, we live different realities.

[–]adam-lThe empress is naked 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are happier and live longer.

That's the criteria.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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