And is that why so many men who don't play their cards right become sacks of shit in marriages? Does the feminine stall the cycle of improvement? Or is that just men succumbing to their own laziness and comfort over a period of time? Is it genetics? Conditioning or just personal mental and physical strength which has been trained and improved over several years and decades?

Surely we can't rest all the blame at the well decorated abattoir that is theplantation? I've met a handful of older married men (50+) who clearly "still have it" but I take it this is because they were "natural alphas" or just more predisposed to such nature who seem to have managed to maintain their families, a life of wealth and pleasure. Their wives on the other hand have nothing to show for their lives. I am by no means one of those who advocates that LTRs or marriage are possible in the red pill world, I still believe its a gamble, but surely the essence of MGTOW to many is that if men are predisposed to only becoming "better" and the the feminine presence limits, does not expand the growth of men then marriage is actually nothing more than a self imposed sentence to limited future returns?