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dds87
[–]DangZagnut407 points408 points409 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
It makes complete sense. Women want all privileges and zero responsibility. It's the feminist message until the end of time.
[–]wathon294 points95 points96 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Correction: my body, my choice, you pay*.
These are the same women that got the bikini contest and the grid girls removed. These are also the same women fighting against legalized prostitution and sex dolls.
TFM said it the best: If men like it, then it's oppression. If men hate it, then it's empowering.
[–]Iowa_Nate31 points32 points33 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I mean if they think we are all trash then whats the big deal with sex dolls???? shit they should be glad we don';t want nothing to do with tthem any more.
[–]rebuildingMyself27 points28 points29 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
No matter how much they preach about independence, women still need our money, attention, and tax revenue.
Sex dolls make men independent from women, which doesn't help their schemes one bit. After all, a sex robot provides to a man 95% of the benefits the modern woman brings to the table and it can't even cook yet.
[–]Iowa_Nate1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I see. just woke up lol thats allI got lol
[–]DangZagnut0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What’s the other 5%?
[–]McPiggy41 points42 points43 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Exactly. I’m not shocked. It’s the norm. Seems to be perfectly natural behavior.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Same with jobs. They cry and whinge over high paying management jobs where they get to be in control of everyone, yet won't lift a finger to partake in trash services and other "manly" jobs that no man really wants to do.
[–]Fantoche_Dreemurr14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And if you ever had office jobs, a female manager is pretty much the worst thing you can expect
[–]MSP_Generalist6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Don't. Work. For. Women.
Period.
[–]Mad_King2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I am a woman, feed me, support me. Are you a pet? Lmao.
[–]LiveTheTruth3210 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Their the ones who need collars around their necks
[–][deleted] 154 points155 points156 points 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link
"The fact that it is not my choice"
maybe one day women will be able to get abortions legally.
[–]ifight_themoonlight83 points84 points85 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link
The quote is in context to her nude pictures getting leaked...nothing to do with an abortion.
[–]suhmydudessssss19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
I bet she leaked those pictures on her own volition, and even if she didn't, what she said is absurdly stupid as leaking nudes without permission is illegal...
[+][deleted] 5 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]suhmydudessssss28 points29 points30 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She was never really attractive imo
[–]-Fender-23 points24 points25 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I forget where I heard that, but I remember reading about how there were inconsistencies with her nudes in particular. How they came from a different source than the other leaks, how they were leaked days later, etc. Basically, evidence that it was likely she published them herself to make a publicity stunt to appear like a victim. And she did become the "face" of that entire debacle, with every headline specifying "Jennifer Lawrence", and with her making speeches about it. She knew that she was never much of an actress, that she only got her roles because she gave head, and that her career was on a clear time limit. She just failed to truly capitalize on this opportunity, by becoming more of a spokesperson, or more involved in politics, or by publishing a book (written by a ghost writer).
[–]originalSpacePirate6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Then she did red sparrow or w/e the fuck that russian spy movie was and got nude anyway once the fappening controversy died completely
[–]dazed1117 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I remember watching nude pictures of her when the fappening happened and they were really unflattering. She's much attractive in movies
[–]-Fender-1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Only the ones where she got sperm on her face, which was like 1 picture out of a few dozens, many of which still has her wear some clothes or are censored. I don't know if that one picture was released at the same time as the rest. In the rest, although it's true that she's not shown in the best possible light like they used to do in her movies, propping her up in advertising as if she was the most beautiful woman in the world, she's not that horrible either. Above average for women (because the average is so low nowadays), not horribly fat, just a standard female body with nothing particularly exceptional about it, negative or otherwise. And she was able to get victim cred at around the same time as Sarkeesian, Zoe Quinn and Emma Watson were bitching at the UN, so she had that going for her at the time. PoundMeToo didn't exist yet, so it was harder to appear as a victim when the large majority of the US loved you, found you attractive, and you were incredibly rich from movie roles you got even with utterly middling talent.
[–]originalSpacePirate17 points18 points19 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Thats not true. She lost her star appeal way before then. People caught on to the fake "quirky down to earth girl" schtick fairly quickly
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe it didn’t work out how she thought. It got a fuck ton of attention on her. Nice tits on her
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
oh sorry didn't notice.
[–]AlwaysResist0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Same Difference!! Same Logic!!
[–]internetTroll1510 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
True. But could easily replace her picture with someone else
[–]dds87[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
But still that's the same mentality though
[–]Fantoche_Dreemurr0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That leak was a giant publicity move for these overpaid whores. They all get to cry victims, yet released the pics themselves.
[–]dds87[S] 56 points57 points58 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Fucking people are idiotic.
[–]overqualified_idiot21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
In her defense, she's just a dumb actress. She dropped out of school. We are only listening to her crap because she is Rich and famous. That's her qualification.
[–]Iowa_Nate0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A person always has a choice. free will cannot be given or taken away. its the outcome and ease of outcome that is not allways garanteed
[–]consios8840 points41 points42 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Women so oppressed, but society lets them get away with so much shit and makes men pay. Even if they go on welfare the bill does not get split in half. The man has to pay back the welfare with interest. The game is so messed up so many dudes dont realize they are a walking credit card that she doesnt have to pay back.
[–]dds87[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is so true
[–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
How is it her body, if the baby comes from genetic material from the father? If they're being semantic about what's what: biologically, some of the father's DNA is in the cell and then that cell divides to make the baby. The food that then is eaten by the lady that makes the baby grow is usually also bought with the father's money.
[–]BottleCap-SnackTrap24 points25 points26 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
It only proves more that regardless of it being our seed, we still have no rights to any decision making because its in her body.
They're parasites man.
[–]ExEvolution0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The woman or the baby?
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
the woman is a parasite in a man and the baby is a parasite in a woman.
[–]dds87[S] 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The baby until it's able to live outside the womb
[–]Zombocom191115 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
asks to be treated as equals, still try to frame men for 18-21 years of child support?
how is it our financial responbility if you 1. didn't take birth control 2. didn't take the morning after pill 3. didn't have an abortion?
being equals means being responsible for your choices
[+][deleted] 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]NewMunster4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Pussy pull: a force stronger than gravity.
[–]billyballoonhead15 points16 points17 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It comes back to the point that her biological reproductive system is 0% my moral responsibility while still being 100% my financial responsibility.
Pick one.
[–]ziggmuff13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Jennifer Lawrence is one dumb bitch, and, shockingly not that remarkable of an actor.
[–]NarutoDnDSoundNinja3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That was Jennifer Lawrence??? Honestly didn't recognize her. Wall is catching up to her quick.
[–]Hillary_For_Prison3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't think it's the wall so much as thots are more or less interchangeable. Give them a bottle of hair dye, some make up and colored contact lenses, a little work from a hair stylist and white thots can make themselves all look like sisters from the neck up.
[–][deleted] 9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The lady below is a true feminist. It’s about freedom to make choices and being responsible for them. Not man-shaming and throwing around the concept of equity.
[–]dds87[S] 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I agree
[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Well, it's because they can't have their legs closed while we're supposed to keep it in our pants. That's called the female "equality", my friends. And their shared daddy-husband (aka "The State") will make sure it's enforced. P.S. And that's exactly why I'm against abortions now: no fucking way I'm going to support their "freedom of choice" when they're so much against mine. Hell, they're even trying to ban the sex DOLLS for fuck's sake!!
[–]roscoedangle7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That's why I am waaaaay behind on child support. I don't get to see or talk to him, he lives in another state his mother said she'd never bring him where I moved because the money was better, and there is actually work here. Fucking bummer. I started writing a journal for him in the event we actually meet someday. Thanks for reading this, I like this page.
[–]AlwaysResist7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women want the good and try to avoid the bad by any means possible!! Even if it contradicts there own statements and ideology!!
[–]robowriter8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Feminist lawyer, Miss Chicago 1955, got it right.
Jennifer Lawerence in a couple of years she'll be a has-been metooing her non-existent virtue and making frequent trips to Dubai as a party girl for high cash payouts. If not already, she appears busy with the ad campaign called fappening.
She is smart
[–]8017358 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
"Karen, who hurt youus!!!! REEEEEEEEE"
[–]Watcher25 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
THIS! Why is this point of view never even a part of the abortion conversation?
[–]fightin2staypositive3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For the first time, don't shut the fuck up, Karen.
[–]123sdf3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
The shitty part about being an adult is you shouldn't be able to kill the baby even if it's an unwanted pregnancy... We talk SO much about personal responsibility here, yet men would rather murder a baby than deal with the results of their actions (not using a condom, sleeping around, not having the wife on birth control etc.). "Bringing the baby to term" is a euphemism for "letting the baby live." Both women are wrong.
I'm not some invader of this sub btw. I've been accused of that multiple times when I share an unpopular opinion. Perhaps there's some hiveminding going on here too...
[–]Hillary_For_Prison3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I completely agree with you.
It's still fun to point out their hypocrisy.
[–]123sdf1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I see now that this post was trying to point out hypocrisy, and yes I love doing that. I have seen the pro-abortion argument made here many times but it seems as if the tides are turning which is awesome.
[+][deleted] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Which is sad. Only thing they possibly have is signing their rights
[–]123sdf0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I see now that it was a post pointing out hypocrisy. Pretty awesome seeing people agree with my viewpoint though. Thought I'd be bashed.
[–]dds87[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If I fuck a chick I would take care of it because I knew the chances like she did.
I'm happy to hear that. I see now you're simply pointing out hypocrisy.
[–]Roastie_haiku_bot5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A woman that makes sense? Rare indeed.
[–]htowntrav1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Isn’t this where trp comes in handy and you learn to play the game and get your personalized desires materialized? You know not all the blame falls on one party over the next. Like don’t stick your dick in crazy. Yada yada yada...
[–]Hillary_For_Prison7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It always amuses me how feminists hold the view a woman should be able to get completely wasted among total strangers in a questionable part of town and then consider it victim blaming if someone tells her the inevitable outcome of her choices is partially her fault for making such obviously bad decisions in the first place but when a man has consenual sex with a woman who later tries to ruin his life those same feminists inevitably side with the woman and blame the man for everything.
Men simply remind each other not to stick our dicks in crazy.
Feminists give women license to be completely irresponsible and viscous. Men encourage men to be responsible and wary. It's a remarkable dichotomy.
[–]magx012 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hope this post gets more attention because it's great. Maybe find a way to work it into a thread/topic of its own?
[–]jaggu4442 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
She looks like an alien, very creepy.
[–]Blogginginvicecity2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
ALL choice and NO responsibility?
It's "Alpha Fucks, Beta Bux" personified.
[–]DopeHammahead4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Did you choose to give her your sperm or did she rip it from your body? We all know semen makes babies. It’s 2018 and there are plenty of choices should you not want to dump a load in a bitch
[–]CursingWhileNursing6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
As if women never have stolen sperm from a condom, poked holes in condoms or lied about her being on birth control.
And please don't tell me some BS like "Should have nown better". We all know that there are lots of naive young men out there, who do not know better and are still naive enough to fall for something like this. And it really gets interesting when you have a 40 year old teacher fucking a 14 year old boy, getting pregnant and then successfully sueing him for child support. Well, that little fucker should have known that sperm makes babies, all his fault...
It's the mans fault, always and by definition. Hm, where have I heard that before?
But she also choose to open her legs
[–]DopeHammahead0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Uhh yeah.... that’s the whole fucking point
[–]EffinWhiteMale2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Checkmate
[–]InformalCriticism2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This has been one of my own arguments in local politics, but lawnakers have insisted there's no way to write it up as a 14th Amendment initiative.
[–]throwaway_ftb1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
upvote to infinity. men should be allowed to sleep around without legal consequences like women.
[–]shetoldmeto802 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've come to realize that women from a few generations back are generally more lucid...
[–]manifesto182 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank God for hookers
[–]raja-ulat2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
As someone who has studied biology, I can understand the concept of males being viewed as more expendable than females due to the understandable perception of females being the valued bearer of offspring while males are mere dispensers of male seed. However, one would do well to remember that fertilizing a female's egg(s) is not necessarily the end of raising the next generation of offspring.
For example, is a human baby the same as the babies of a fish, a lizard or a spider? The answer would be obviously no. After all, human babies need a lot of love are care to grow up into well-adjusted adults. Most female fishes, lizards and spiders do not take care of their young after laying their eggs or after the eggs hatch. Granted, the males do not take care of them either but let's not forget that some female spiders and mantises eat the males after mating with them.
Another thing is that some non-human males do play a role in providing and caring for their offspring. For example, male seahorses carry the eggs until they hatch. Both the males and females of some birds produce crop milk, the bird equivalent to mammalian milk, to feed their offspring. Wolves, both males and females, work together to raise their pups. In the case of Tamarin Monkeys, it is the males which take care of the young most of the time while the females mainly provide milk for their young.
Therefore, as both a human being and a male, I find the idea that my only value is to be a mere sperm dispenser and expendable utility, with no place in raising and teaching my own offspring, rather insulting.
[–]dds87[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Well shit lol. That actually pretty educational. Upvote for teaching me more about biology.
[–]raja-ulat0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You're welcome. :-3
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
If you choose not to use birth control measures while having sex, that's also on you.
Depends. You can sign rights away if a woman decides what they can do so can man
[–]hkl83241 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My choice, not my liability. That is women.
[–]themanmohr1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wouldn’t have a problem with child support if abortion were illegal because there both parties are responsible for their poor life choices but currently our laws are logically inconsistent
[–]No1Buck1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I would be much more likely to empathize with women on abortion rights if there was a single mainstream feminist organization that advocated for men's right to a financial abortion.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Something I never understood is how they take this my body my choice like.
Lady did anybody rape you or fooled you into having sex without a condom? In that case it's a crime and you're definitely entitled for child support. If not then you should snap your legs shut. It's funny how women want all the rights but never want to take responsibility too . Everywhere everytime it's always "He got me pregnant" "He made her pregnant". Fuck that. Why do they completely blame everything on men?
If you want my body my choice then I want my life and my money .
It's because their bodies are weapons, which they do not want to disarm.
[–]SovietGrazoBazoOkdek0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Women deceive one another. That’s the problem those who ignored the warning deserve to be punished. It scars the child too. It realizing that it’s mother was a whore. The child is silenced by the mother.
[–]BlackBoxInquiry0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely funny. It’s spot on as well.
[–]mgotzinger0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Well she just got unattractive and ugly in my book
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It makes perfect sense and I'm pro abortion choice as well.
[–]Andie_Lynn0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I understand the difficulty in determining objective standards to judge if a fetus should have the right not to be destroyed. But because we don’t know if there is one, you should bank on being neutral. If you can’t be sure whether a fetus has human life or not then you shouldn’t risk the death of one that does. 🙂
i don't give a damn. i'm not a fundie fucktard worshiping a psychopathic god construct that burns people of other faiths or none at all. i'd rather it be aborted than have to support it via food stamps,government subsidized housing,and going in and out of juvenile detention centers and later prison. besides, most of the people that are against abortion are the same types that want all assistance to these children cut out anyhow which would mean they'd wind up starving out on the streets anyhow. at least abortion nips it in the bud.
*STANDING OVATION* WAY TO GO KAREN WHOOOOOOOOOOO YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
[–]Atton_Risk0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Abortion on demand has nothing to do with bodily autonomy.
Thank god i have no children.
[–]zetsthamys0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
WILL SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN ! screams in alimony single mother
"Usually"?
Women would never support the second view, pure and simple. The lure of a pregnancy trap is too strong and the payoff too huge for the woman.
My wallet my choice
[–]alphaautist0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Gynocentrism in a nutshell /:
[–]tandom4430 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My one question here is this. Do you see that child as a direct consequence to irresponsible sexual habits? For BOTH parties? I feel that accountability for one's actions is something seriously lacking in many people. If you impregnate a woman and she suddenly feels a very natural attachment to the the child growing inside her; that is directly the fault of both him AND her. Grow up kids. You caused this to be. Take responsibility for your actions. We go our own way but sometimes that way is us putting our pecker where it don't belomg. You can't be expected to be a father if you don't BE A FATHER!
[–]speeddopepope-4 points-3 points-2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If you found the decapitated heads of this planets 1000 richest feudal lords sitting on your front porch everyone would be able to fuck endlessly for the next billion years before worrying about the cost of children.
[–]speeddopepope0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thats because you are a bata cuck who would never even dare to spit in there bosses face.
[–]Hillary_For_Prison-1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's puff puff pass.
[+]Iowa_Nate-8 points-7 points-6 points 5 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
I dunno guys..... part of me aagrees and part of me does not. I think if a man chooses to ejeculate into a woman then shouldn't he be held accountable for that choice? I do agree that it is totally 100% a womans choice to carry a baby to term. I mean of course its her body. The child is both of thiers cuz it couldn't get created with out sperm And a egg coming together . hmmm confusing.
here is what I really think: the woman may or may not choose to allow a penis inside her, then man may or not choose to ejeaaculate, the woman may choose to keep the baby, the man may choose to stick arround and support, it should be decided between the two of them. its a extremly personal decsion and there is no right or wrong
[–]Jakkol6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Having sex with someone is not the same as consenting to a baby FFS. If women wants to keep the baby she should always have signed consent from the male to his DNA. No form? Abortion.
[–]Iowa_Nate-3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
it was really just a comment and I ( No offense) feel like your reading into it a bit much.
what does it mean when a man ejaculatees into a woman with out any form of birth controll?
ok I kinda get what your saying, the man dosen't know when there is a egg in the uterus so its not 100% garaunteed that a bay will be created
they acctually do have consent forms fro sex in the millitary
[–]Jakkol7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
forms fro sex in the millitary
Im talking about consent forms for a baby not for sex. Baby should absolutely require one as the woman is using mans DNA beyond the sex part.
The woman is responsible for her body and to make sure she doesn't get pregnant without having consent for having a child from the man. Its about time woman became equal and had responsibility put on them instead of being treated like children.
[–]Iowa_Nate-1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
o now I get it. I had never thought about it that way before. in this context I agree with you, in the real world I think that when two adults choose to have unprotectedd sex they aree both consenting to the possibility that a life may be formed. when a woman chooses to allow a penis inside her she consents to the possibility that the man may choose to ejeculate. when a man ejeculates he consents that she may have an egg implanted on the uterus wall and that the enviroment inside the vagina may or may not kill all the sperm.
I do think it would be cool if there was some kind of form stating that they both agree to the possible outcome of sex.
this makes me think of a lesbian thaat got back with heer ex man because he makes beautiful babies, she tricked him into sex and then ran back to her lesbian lover. they now have a beautiful child, this is a story I heard of but this happened to a friedn of mine. His ex fucked him for his DNA and then left and went back to her new man. this was aftyer the divorce
[–]dds87[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree because if they BOTH have their OWN choices to make. Which they have to both accept each other's decisions
I have to admit it would be very hard for me to accpet a abortion. In the end I would have to accept it tho.
Dude you're saying like the man ejaculated into her and she wasn't even aware. She was equally part of the sex without protection.
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