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[–]CiceroVoltaire60 points61 points62 points 5 years ago (61 children) | Copy Link
we're a few crises away from losing the 2A in the USA. fun fact, more people are killed by criminals with illegal guns than by law abiding citizens with legal guns. When they ban guns, only criminals and government (redundant?) will be armed.
"The 2A is your permit!" Ideally, many more states with do this.
I think we have until 2024, after that we'll see banning and restrictions increase, as has happened in the past. At some point, they will change or abolish the 2A.
[–]ultrasuperthrowaway24 points25 points26 points 5 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link
I’m up to debate this in a friendly manner. I think we will not abolish 2A. Definitely not by 2024 or 2044 for that matter.
Logistically, It will take an army of cops to take a single persons guns with multiple casualties, now multiply that by the number of legal gun owners and it will likely take many magnitudes the population of planet earth to clear the US of legal guns. I honestly have a hard time believing cops will carry out orders to take citizens weapons in the first place. Every time I get pulled over with multiple carries they are always pretty cool about them.
I will definitely still have this account in 5 years so we can literally see if we still have the second amendment in 2024.
[–]CiceroVoltaire13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
fair enough. I hope to be proven wrong, actually. but I'm not taking any chances either way.
why 2024? because we may start to see more AOC-bots in the post-Trump era. if or when they get a majority it's going to be interesting.
I'm not talking about confiscation, that is logistically impractical, and I agree most law enforcement may not enforce it, but who knows if their careers and employment are at risk?
It could be like Roosevelt banning private gold ownership. You were asked to surrender your gold; keeping it was a felony if caught. I think this is the most likely scenario.
Getting parts, ammo, etc., may become increasingly more difficult.
[–]NathanHollister7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
You need a 2/3 majority to overturn 2A. The dems will not get that in our lifetimes. Also, any other gun laws they pass can be erased by the SCOTUS. SCOTUS is 100% behind 2A
[–]CiceroVoltaire4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
I hope you're right.
I don't trust pols, and we're slowly moving toward an Orwellian socialist totalitarian dystopia. It may take another 50 or so years unless things are turned around. IMO.
Either way, I'm almost set with my collection. One or two more to fill the remaining gap.
Cheers!
edit: spelling
[–]NathanHollister3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
No senate republican will vote against gun rights
[–]CiceroVoltaire7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
never say never; plenty of turncoat RINOs in the senate, when pushed some will fold.
[–]NathanHollister1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
You can't be a RINO in the senate, you will get primaried because representing an entire state means fucktons of money gets raised against you if you defy the party. The only one there who isnt from a blood red state is Collins from Maine. I expect her to vote with the libbies, but we're still good. But consider a senator from Tenessee or Alabama voting for gun control. There would be angry mobs that night, with pitchforks and torches to hang him, burn his house down, and rape his wife and kids.
[–]CiceroVoltaire4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Murkowski, Romney, Rubio, Alexander, Lee, ... plenty of RINOs
[–]NathanHollister2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
All of them would get fired if they voted for gun control. Consider the states they represent
[–]NohoTwoPointOh1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I wish that I could disagree with you on this. I really do.
[–]Older_Miggy2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No you don't need to overturn 2A that way. You do what the scum are doing right now, do end arounds by limiting/banning certain guns, then ammo, and so on.
Scotus is 100% behind 2A, yet you need to do a background check in Kallyfornia just to buy fucking ammo. Large capacity magazines are being banned. It takes forever for SCOTUS to do shit.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
^ This Trump did a great thing with the new SCOTUS
[–]ultrasuperthrowaway5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Great points, thanks for discussing this with me. The AOC-bot thing is truly scary and she is 100% insane. I suppose the Roosevelt gold ban thing could happen and I sure hope it doesn’t. Thank God there are some patriots who still exist that have common sense enough to keep the 2A alive.
Honestly I think having serious friendly conversations calmly with people who disagree with us is our best chance at keeping everyone grounded enough to keep the freedoms we need in life.
[+][deleted] 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]CiceroVoltaire0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
not all powerful. it will collapse from the rot and decay within. but it will lash out with vengeance in its' death throes as it tries to avoid the inevitable.
I'm already free.
Cheers.
[–]transcis0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
2A could be made almost completely irrelevant. I refer you to gun laws in NYC. The restrictions are very severe. Major urban areas in US could (and are) follow NYC example and since 50% of US population lives or works in a major urban area, 2A could be relegated to the boonies.
[–]ld2gj14 points15 points16 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Reading the posts between you and /u/ultrasuperthrowaway
*blink*
I just read a civil conversation about gun ownership and firearm control. Sweet 6 lbs, 8 oz baby jesus; it's a sign of the end times.
[–]ultrasuperthrowaway4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Weird right?
[–]ld2gj8 points9 points10 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes...yes it is. Was in another sub talking about the NZ shooting and how they are media bblacklisting and arrasting people for sharing the footage and banning "military-style" assault guns *twitch*. Logic is a trigger for those people.
[–]NathanHollister3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
We won't lose 2A until Congress is 67% Democrat and there is a democrat president and democrat SCOTUS. That's a LONG time away, 30 years at least. Trump has given us 30 years of GOP SCOTUS.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
You all acting like the government can take things away from us.
They can't if we don't allow them to.
[–]NathanHollister0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They won't even try
[–]D4rk50ul0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My state just passed constitutional carry, good luck convincing us to just hand them over.
[–]CiceroVoltaire1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Good points. I was thinking 50 years, but if there are a few more mass shootings, it could accelerate the demise / restriction of 2A.
not just demoncrats, most tradcons are RINOs and vice versa, what they have in common is that they're weak and will cave under the slightest pressure to keep their seats.
with demoncrats they usually behave as expected; RINOs and tradcons are inconsistent, like McStain, say one thing do another thing... like many women.
Look at the US senate map. There are only 2 Republicans who arent from blood red states. Voting against 2A will cost you your seat, as you would get primaried out. Thanks to the timely death of McCain, there aren't any RINOs left in the Senate besides Collins (Maine). There are plenty of rinos in the house, but due to the expense of a Senate race most GOP senators are completely beholden to gun rights groups, or in a state so red that they would be assassinated for any anti gun vote.
Also, SCOTUS will protect 2A to their dying breath. And hopefully Ginsburg will croak soon so Trump can throw another good one in there and make us 100% safe from Roberts forgetting which party he is in.
[–]CiceroVoltaire1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Agree. McStain was one, there are others who I see as self-serving RINOs, if they think it's in their best interest they will side with dems.
[–]Older_Miggy1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Murkowski. Romney, and a bunch of others are RINO. 12 of them voted against the National Emergency order. These scum are useless when the chips are down.
[–]Older_Miggy2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
2A won't be lost.
At some point Decent People are gonna say "that's enough" and do something about it. And by do something about it, I mean start killing Democrats. A lot of them. It's gonna be ugly, but oh well. Bring on the shooting war.
I prefer indifference. Let the shitshow start, I'll observe not participate.
besides most of the actual violence comes from the prog far left.
In society and civilization rights and taxes are the only things that concern me. The rest, IDGAF.
[–]Shinyblight1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Also big daddy government would win if it came down to brute forcing it with the military/police.
[–]Shinyblight0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I mean 60/40 we’re fucked
[–]ThaiEscapePlan3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks CV. I live in Toronto. The great multicultural melting pot. The murder rate here is higher than any other city in Canada.
It is not politically correct to say in Cucknada, but it is one group that is responsible for much of the violence. Our politicians want to throw money at the problem when the reality is that these young men are feral. Raised by single mothers, if at all, and the only role models they have are other feral young men. Getting an education and a real job is for losers, they only want to be gangsters packing illegal handguns.
Toronto has a huge Asian population producing very little violence. Also a sizeable Indian population producing little violence.
As for reducing violence, making guns impossible to get has not made Britain any safer. Knife attacks are a daily thing there.
Perhaps our political masters should stop important from certain third world places when those people cannot or will not integrate into our societies rather than put the blame on average people who are fed up with this shit.
[–]omen_tenebris1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
don't worry. They'll never cross the 2A. Your whole economy is based on warfare/armament. USA would collapse
[–]CiceroVoltaire2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
plenty of money for military and law enforcement; they'd spend more, we always increase "defense" spending just like entitlement programs.
i.e., the military-industrial complex will make up any possible losses from lower civilian sales.
[–]yurimodin1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I hear you.....it's really a matter of compliance at this point.
[–]GrisBosque1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link
American gun owners out number every army on earth combined...
I sure hope no one tells them!
[–]CiceroVoltaire0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
they have bigger, better guns than civilians, then add artillery, tanks, helicopters, missiles, etc., civilians vs military over before it starts; best to hope minimum of 30%, ideally 80%+ of the military refuse to attack civilians in their own country.
[–]GrisBosque1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
not gonna happen... if shit starts those weapons will be on the same side so fast the status quo that caused the problem would be rubbing their eyes.... You know how many guys know all those bases? and still have their uniforms?
like I said, it's going to be up to the grunts to decide who they aim at.
[–]GrisBosque2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yup! theres just going to be a family reunion...
Hardest part would be sorting out who was on which side, without undue casualties....
And chances are that would already be pretty much known.
The Constitution is rather explicit, and the oath to it is open ended.
And Concord and Lexinton show the pattern.
Only this time no fancy red coats!
Anybody who fights against the second ammendment has broken their oath.
And an estimated ten to twenty million AR's outside the wire...
Many owned by past grunts...
The entire US Military and police combined is about four and a half million.... And they are out numbered by gun owners about 50:1, and many of those military etc. are strong 2nd ammendment believers.
And if a government attempts confiscation it has de facto delegitimized itself.
"Some will die in battle, and some will be captured."
(Thats the bad guys being talked about.)
[–]CiceroVoltaire1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
good points. I do know whatever happens, when it does happen, it's going to get ugly and real. fast
[–]GrisBosque0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thats the fun part: no one can be sure what will happen when.
But there are some really good deterrents not to start a problem... But then... human stupidity seems to have a way with causing trouble...
Lets hope wiser heads prevail...
The second ammendment is basically a set trap... but you'd have to be an idiot to step in it.
Its the last ditch.
And if it does get ugly, only one side is going to have unlimited reinforcements... cant imagine AR owners fighting for the side that wants to take away their rights.
And AR's are nothing in comparison to everything else.
[–]oneofchaos0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
If you need tanks/helicopters/missiles to disarm your citizens you might want to take a step back and ask if you should be doing what you are doing.
[–]CiceroVoltaire0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
they're only following orders. if they don't someone else will. depends on the incentive. kill or be killed. if it's martial law, failure to follow orders may result in summary execution.
[–]oneofchaos1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Suddenly we aren't America anymore, where heavily armed military are mowing down citizens. I do think a lot of military personnel would refuse the order thankfully, some of those being 2A defenders, others just seeing the sure insanity of turning weapons on your own citizens.
I agree. most perhaps will refuse, that still leaves some that won't.
Romans fought Romans; US Civil War, Jacobite Rebellion of 1745, etc. most internal conflicts show military vs civilian fighting occurs.
[–]D4rk50ul-1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You can't use most of those things in guerilla warfare, how would the supporters feel about the collateral damage. They would have to go door to door not knowing if they will get shot at before knocking. It's a pipe dream to think they would accomplish disarming Americans, no military would fight against the constitution they spent their entire careers defending.
I think armed forces will use whatever means necessary at their disposal for any given situation.
If we get to a point where the military is fighting civilians, we're close to or in anarchy situation.
I think we're better off in North America. If the EU creates a standing EU military, and theirs unrest in a country, say Greece. They'll send units that have non-Greek soldiers who don't have any reason to care about citizens of Greece beyond basic humanity.
History is full of stories of the atrocities of war. When international and national authority breaks down, it will lash out in its' death throes at any/all perceived threats. In anarchy, in the absence of the rule and enforcement of law it's survival of the fittest. The weak will become prey, the strong will fight against each other, this may coalesce into a territorial or neo-tribal model, this is a new dark age, where survival, expansion, greed, power, etc. dictate actions and investment. It will be marked by a hard patriarchy, and a top-down authoritarian governance model, very similar to those of the past tribal/kingdom models.
TL;DR; when collapse of rule and enforcement of law is gone, we have anarchy, and it will be surviaval of the fittest.
[–]oneofchaos1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
The confiscation squad is going to go to get the guns but first they are going to get the bullets. If I was a politician, I'd be literally condemning people to death by ordering a gun confiscation. I have no fucking clue how somebody could sleep at night.
[–]CiceroVoltaire0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
they may make getting ammunition and reloading supplies require a permit, and tracking what and how much you purchase; add taxes to the purchase of ammo, etc. make it more expensive and difficult first.
over time they hope to wear everyone down so the resistance is minimal. isn't it something like 51% of demoncrats have a positive view of socialism, and 45% have a positive view of capitalism.
paint it black, call it an "assault weapon", 29% of Americans want to ban them.
worst I've seen is a poll (suspicious IMO, from WAPO) that 1 in 5 (39%) of Americans want to repeal the 2A.
support for the 2A is eroding over time.
[–]oneofchaos1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
2 in 5 if that's the case. It's a biased poll if it came from WAPO tho. Definitely don't believe it is that high.
exactly, WAPO has an agenda. but they're selling that, think of all those among us that like being part of a herd.
"If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth".
"If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth"
The terrifying thing is I'm not sure if it was taken to be an instruction on how to shape society but it's certainly headed that way!
indoctrination. propaganda. useful idiots. Red Guards. Khmer Rouge. Orwell's 1984,
not the first time. not the last
[–]I-am-the-lul1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I bet that they will use the American Psychological Association's guidelines about traditional masculinity as a mental disorder as a work-around the second amendment by claiming that since most of the men who have guns are traditionally masculine (which they now call toxic masculinity) and that there are already laws which prohibit mentally ill people from owning guns, all they have to do is prove that the male gun owner has "toxic masculinity" and the police will be justified in taking all his guns away.
well, we're already "guilty for existing" if you're a straight male aka patriarchy.
up to us prove ourselves innocent.
Instead I choose to ignore, indifference, invisible to society, civilization, women, etc.
[–]AugustusRome11 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It’s the economy stupid! A better phrase is: It’s the demographics stupid! They hate you and want your guns so that they can genocide you later.
[–]literallyanaz10 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Ok then how about instead we end the military-industrial complex that gives all these people guns in the first place?
[+][deleted] 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]BluetoothMcGee13 points14 points15 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
someone has to be the bad guy when history is rewritten.
That's Communism for you.
[–]A_Brown_Crayon0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Really? In New Zealand he’s loved!
[+][deleted] 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]A_Brown_Crayon0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Nah that’s from Australia as well
[–]omen_tenebris12 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oi mate, do ya have lincence for that meme?
[–]swankvagabond3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
That should be in r/MensRights
[–]Section-2010 points11 points12 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, it's fine here. No different than guys here talking about free speech, restoring a car or the kayaking vacation they just took or even playing video games. It doesn't just have to be about women.
[–]term1nat0r14 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nah this isn't a gendered issue. I saw this pic in r/libertarian
[–]Sir_manalot1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Nah, this thread is fine (and I am pretty vocal about my dislike of tradcon off-topic stuff here).
Just because it leans more towards Mensrights doesn't mean it doesn't apply.
[–]PrinceRaj534 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We already did something for ourselves years ago when it just merely started. Thats why we are mgtow.
[–]banana_hammock_8154 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What about when the wealthy take all of our money or when the politicians take our votes away? How much are we gonna have to pay for an operation even though we already pay $500/month for insurance? Not to mention, college costs more per year than you will make at a respectable career after college. You cant cherry pick the injustices in our society just because it falls under partisan lines.
[–]Mick_Donalds3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Too bad, UK.
We're not saving you next time, either.
[–]boethiusfornow1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We may not be able to if we wanted.
[–]badaboomxx2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have to agree this, even with politics and the current world. Mexico is getting the number 2 and 3 right now, it is a shame.
[–]NietzscheExplosion2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Freedom is always an illusion. Control is also always an illusion.
The fact is everything is always in a constant state of flux.
The negotiation for power is constantly evolving. You may or may not have much influence on the negotiation at any given time. If you want to play the game at any level(even speaking up in protest) prepare for conflict. Conflict always before a state of stabilization... which last only so long before the game rolls the dice again and again and again.
[–]Shimakaze41 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
When the Chinese come, we will be in some trouble.
[–]MethaCat1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It is always late brother. Think about slavery, inquisition, forced recruitment.
Hind sight is 20/20, we just don't know how things are going to get worse from now and what to do to prevent them.
As for fixing the society we live in, there is no other way than to have a robust system ready to replace the old one, else it's just a temporary measure until things return as how they were.
We humans tend to build over things already in place, maybe a good approach would be to admit defeat for now and make the best of what will be the future, else I just think we are just pumping out water of a sinking ship. Loser mentality for sure, but I don't see any other way to do things without hurting ourselves or the people we care.
[–]gbevans0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
in order to essentially revoke one amendment, you must get another passed which cancels it out like the repeal of prohibition. I believe the 21st amendment effectively cancelled out the 18th. you need 3/4's of the states on board which is something that would never ever happen if you're talking about the 2nd amendment. secondly assuming the impossible of actually getting such an amendment passed, the enforcement would be a functional impossibility.
[–]DirtyVaughngina0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not that I disagree but what's with all the political shit here lately. Is this still MGTOW
[–]TheDumbassGenius0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bro, the answer is easy. We're fucked. Have you looked around? We're getting dumber with each generation lmao, we fucked brah.
[–]U-940 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I don't care about gun control because the privatized military organizations have technology that can wipe out anything without combustion. EMF pulses, radiation waves that kill organic material but don't damage structures, sound weapons that make you hear voices and straight up "rod of god" poles they can drop from space like an asteroid. Weapon technology isn't on my radar for "being able to defend yourself from government".
Everything here is supposed to stay status quo so don't expect any revolutions to disrupt that for the time being. Just watch your sports and movies, pay taxes, etc. People far more intelligent than you already have the contracts on mass graves when it's time to shake the etch-a-sketch up and start over.
[–]mentalidade_logica0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
When US citizens give up their 2nd Amendment (the last remainder one) then say good bye to your freedom forever. This is coming from a once anti-gun believer.
[–]gigetybuddha0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
We're at the end of that awkward stage where it's too late to work within the system, but not quite time to shoot the bastards.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just fly a straight pride flag and see what happens. It's already too late.
2A is our God given right not something that can be taken. One side of the isle seems to be OK giving up their rights and taking others, but 300,000,000 guns and almost as many owners outnumber any enforcers they try to send. No responsible gun owner wants it to come to that, but if it keeps being pushed we won't have a choice. What is being talked about is the exact "Tyranny" the 2A is in place to protect us against.
[–]Joxs20 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I assume I’m going to dying by get gunned down by federal agents coming to collect my guns one day. They will walk up. Ask for you guns, and shoot you when you refuse.
[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
There's too many cucks in the world.
Everyone is just fuckin peachy with laws being made an about "hate crimes" or "hate speech" or "taking away guns because you don't really need them" because they think it doesn't affect them.
You're just a frog getting boiled in the water with the heat in low, and some of y'all think it's fine. Disgusting.
[–]PhoneOnMyName-2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Its easy to loose freedom but when freedom is lost it won't easily come back again.
[–]Asperger_Mgtow-2 points-1 points0 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It would be too late if mgtow did not start up, it looks like it's lost but we still have chances against this. But we have to fight. First by getting out of swamp and let it dry, then we have to do the rest with the rubble.
Society is already dead and demolished, that's the problem.
[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'm a kinda of a new here but shouldn't these posts be in another sub?
[–]ld2gj5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Oh yes, too bad they will be deleted and the poster banned.
No.
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