~ archived since 2018 ~

A Practical Guide To Building Frame

March 30, 2017
113 upvotes

A few notes:

This guide is largely untested. I’m in the middle of this process myself, and the act of laying it out in this way is meant to help me better understand the process and, hopefully, get feedback from the community to make it better. I am not setting myself up as an expert in this area. The techniques below are cobbled together from multiple sources, all of which are cited at the end.

I was sitting at my desk - lost in thought, why isn’t this working? Let me check the code… - when she walked in, pulled up a chair, and sat down next to me.

Her long, gray hair hung down to her lower back. She had a billowy scarf wrapped around her throat, but no winter coat - despite this being mid-winter in New England. Her dress seemed to all be one piece, the kind of rough, gray thing you’d see hanging up in a shop that sold crystals and tarot cards. She started rummaging through her messenger bag and pulled out a tattered notebook.

“You do websites, right? Here’s what I’m thinking - we open in a few weeks and I’m going to need several pages completed before then. We’re also going to need a pretty substantial social media presence - we really want to make our presence known. Do you know the cancer treatment center nearby? No? Pull it up on your computer and I’ll show you what I mean….”

I turned and opened up the browser. I started to type in the address she gave me when I suddenly realized:

I don’t have an appointment right now. I don’t make in-office appointments. This woman looks homeless.

And, finally:

I don’t do websites.

After she left, 45 minutes later, I called the law office that she told me would handle the $20,000 payment for my services.

I wasn’t surprised when they told me they’d never heard of her, and I wasn’t surprised when I googled her name and found absolutely no evidence that she was the head of cancer treatment at the hospital she mentioned. I had, more or less, suspected that from the moment she walked through the day.

So why the fuck did I spend 45 minutes talking to her?

The answer: she had one of the strongest frames of anyone I’d ever met. She acted 100% as if she was supposed to be there and I fell immediately in line.

And that was when I started to think about frame….and wonder why my own was so weak.

WHAT IS FRAME?

Before we define frame, it’s important to understand that there is no universal definition of frame as a concept. It’s used, by various communities and fields of study, in a variety of ways.

“Frame” as a concept seems to originate in NLP (neuro-linguistic programming). In NLP terms, frame is broadly the mental “boundaries” we place around an event. It is our (normally) subconscious “perceptions of our world based [on] our mental template or our internal representations.” (http://www.mindtrainingsystems.com/content/introducing-frames)

In plain english, NLP “frame” is a specific method of viewing a particular situation, designed to elicit certain results. For example, you may view a situation through the “ecology frame,” which asks “how will this event affect the larger community or environment?” Or, you may approach a problem through the “As-If Frame,” which asks you to act “as if” the intended result is already true.

In Manosphere or MRP terms, “Frame” is a more amorphous concept. Rollo Tomassi defined frame as “an often subconscious, mutually acknowledged personal narrative under which auspices people will be influenced.” (https://therationalmale.com/2011/10/12/frame/) This is often broadened out to encompass an overall “personal reality” - as Tomassi asks, “Whose reality are you living in” - yours, or your wife’s?

Frame is also used in a general way, to refer to a sense of overall confidence or personal strength of will. This is the broader sense of frame used in the excellent series of MRP posts on Frame by /u/strategos_autokrator (https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/337uvx/the_elements_of_frame_0_introduction/). Frame, in this broader context, incorporates your intellectual, emotional, and physical “stability.”

None of these definitions are “right” or “wrong” - but they have strengths and weaknesses when it comes to effectively using the idea of “frame” to better your life (which is my primary goal).

So I’d like to suggest a definition of “Practical Frame” - one that largely avoids the broader, philosophical questions around frame and instead focuses on what regular men can do, right now, to start improving their lives.

Here it is:

Frame is the meaning you bring to any situation.

Only physical events exist. Everything that’s ever happened between you and your wife, or your kids, or your boss - those events consisted only of certain bunches of chemicals bumping into certain other bunches of chemicals. None of those events meant anything in any real sense. But how we interpret those events - how they make us feel, and the stories we tell ourselves about what events mean - is fully subjective. That’s our Frame.

FRAME CONTENT IS IRRELEVANT

What gives our day to day lives emotional meaning is our subjective interpretation of the events that happen around us. Things occur, and we supply the meaning after the fact. That meaning - again, the meaning that we supply - is neither more “right” nor more “wrong” than any other meaning, and is not intrinsic to the event itself.

The only practical difference, then, between any two subjective interpretations (“Frames”) of an event is whether or not they serve to bring us closer to our goals.

A positive frame is any frame that allows us to move closer to our goals, to better ourselves, or to improve our lives.

A negative frame is any frame that doesn’t.

To fully appreciate and utIlize frame in our day to day lives, we must realize that the beneficiality of any frame is content independent. We are not trying to find the “right” frame or the frame that is “objectively” the best - interpretations of events are fully subjective, and so no frame can be more “right” or “wrong” than any other.

What your frame consists of - it’s content - does not matter. All that matters about a frame is whether it serves you.

FRAME IS IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT DRIVES BEHAVIOR

If frame was completely internal, it would be meaningless.

Frame is only important to the extent to which it influences our behavior.

Our interpretations of the world around us influence how we act towards it. If we’re walking down the street, and see someone scowl at us, it could mean any number of things. Which of those possible meanings we choose to latch on to will affect how we react in a number of ways:

If we interpret the scowl to mean that the person hates us and is aggressive towards us, we may drop into a defensive pose, ready for a fight; If we interpret the scowl to mean that the person is having a rough day, and is in need of compassion, we might open our arms to embrace them; If we interpret the scowl to mean that the person sees someone behind us doing some questionable, we might spin around to see what they’re looking at; If we interpret the scowl to mean that the person has a physical defect with their facial muscles, we might avert our eyes downward so as not to make them feel awkward.

All of these actions will then influence the actions of others. Striking a defensive pose, for example, may cause the oncoming person to do the same; opening our arms to embrace them might startle them out of their bad mood.

We are constantly taking in information from the world around us and incorporating it into our running narrative of the world - what I’ll call the Reactive Frame.

The Reactive Frame is largely unconscious, and is driven primarily by our upbringing, culture, and the immediate events surrounding us. We are continually plugging events from our day to day lives into this frame, expanding or altering it as necessary.

This frame, in turn, affects our behavior. In fact, we will often act in accordance with our Reactive Frame in such a way that the frame becomes reinforced; thus, Reactive Frame is self-reinforcing, which is why it is often so difficult for us to see it for what it is.

Let me give an example:

Let’s say that you grew up in an abusive household. Your father drove wedges between you and your older brothers; bullying and violence was commonplace. Because of this, you internalized an unconscious “frame” that “People are shit; people will take advantage of you any chance they get.”

This internalized belief changes how you act. You are suspicious of strangers and tend to hold them at arm’s length. You are rude when people approach you and are emotionally unavailable to friends or lovers. As such, the people around you find it very hard to form emotional attachments; that leads them to betray you, treat you poorly, or abuse you more often than someone they felt deeply connected to. These experiences serve to deepen your entrenched belief - “See?! She cheated on me! All people are shit; they’ll take advantage of you any chance they get.”

The Reactive Frame is thus a feedback loop, strengthening itself over time.

Because frames influence our behavior, and our behaviors affect how the world reacts to us, positive frames (that move us towards our goals) have increasingly positive effects, while negative frames (that move us further away from our goals) have increasingly negative effects.

HOW FRAMES INTERACT

Frames, being completely subjective, often come into conflict.

Take the interaction above, with the scowling man coming down the street. Say that the scowling man believes that all people are shit, and is simply acting in his own perceived best interest - scare people away and they’ll have no chance to hurt you.

Meanwhile, the man coming up the street has internalized a frame of “This guy must be having a very stressful day; he needs a hug!” Acting in what he perceives as his own best interest, he sets out to comfort the scowling man by throwing his arms wide for a hug.

These two men are harboring competing frames - differing interpretations of the event that is occurring. What will happen?

Human beings have incredibly sensitive tools for analyzing the actions and intentions of others. In Thinking Fast and Slow, psychologist Daniel Kahneman describes this system as System 1 - the pre-rational portions of our brain that evolved to enable incredibly fast - yet sometimes messy and inaccurate - decision making and analysis. System 1 is contrasted with the slower, rational System 2 - capable of making incredibly accurate decisions, but much more resource intensive.

System 1 is essentially on all the time, subconsciously analyzing thousands of data points - a facial micro-expression, the position of someone’s arms, a darting of eyes - and giving us a vague “instinct” or “feeling” about a situation. We turn down a dark alley and instantly feel uneasy, though we’re not sure why; we get the sense that a coworker dislikes us, even though they’re always nice to our face; we get a seemingly innocuous text from our wife and instantly feel a pit in our stomach, sure a fight is incoming.

System 1, then, is largely how we “sense” another person’s Frame. Any situation in which the actions of another person are directly in contrast to our intuitive understanding of a situation - when they’re acting as if our Frame is incorrect - we experience a sense of cognitive dissonance, a discomfort and creeping suspicion that maybe, just maybe, we might be wrong.

In the world of Early Man, being wrong about a situation, or striking off on our own against the advice of the tribe, often resulted in death. As such, the experience of frame conflict is unpleasant.

In any situation where frames are in conflict, there will be a subconscious urge amongst all the people involved to “decide on” the strongest frame and adopt it. If everyone adopts the same frame, the conflict - and cognitive dissonance - disappears.

HOW DOES ONE FRAME OVERPOWER ANOTHER?

What determines whether one frame or another becomes the dominant frame?

The dominant frame in any situation is the one which the group adopts.

That’s it. Remember, since frames are subjective, no one frame is better than any other (although it is true that frames can be better or worse for you, based on your goals). The “winning” frame is purely defined by which frame “wins” - it’s a popularity contest, pure and simple.

If you hold your frame, you win. If other people abandon their frame, you win.

So - what determines whether you hold or your frame? What makes other people abandon theirs?

The truth of the matter is that in nearly every situation you will encounter, every one has an incredibly weak frame.

Most people are unaware of frame as a dynamic and thus aren’t conscious of whether they are holding or abandoning frame at all. Most people do not have a strong preference for one frame or another; they seek consensus more than they seek any particular outcome. Most people have no specific frame at all, resting entirely within their Reactive Frame.

Because of this, the primary characteristic of a “strong” or “dominant” frame is simply the extent to which it’s owner is willing to hold it.

To put it simply:

The person that holds their frame the longest will usually see their frame adopted by the group.

That’s it.

This is the reason that “fogging” works in When I Say No, I Feel Guilty: the fogger makes no attempt to explain themselves, defend their position, or provide any kind of rational argument to the other person. Instead, the simply continuously insist on a particular outcome until the other person abandons their frame and gives them what they want.

In all instances where the competing frames are weak, simple insistence on holding your own frame will triumph.

However, in situations where the other frames are strong - for example, when emotions are running high, or the other participants perceive the stakes to be high - both sides are likely to insist on maintaining their own frame. In these situations, what determines which frame is “stronger”?

CHARACTERISTICS OF A STRONG FRAME

Frame “strength” is best described as the extent to which people - including the frame holder - perceive a frame to be “objectively true.”

Now, we know that frames are not objectively true or false - they are subjective. But a preponderance of evidence - either that our frame is true or that it is useful - will make holding a contested frame much easier.

The elements that determine a frame’s strength are:

Social Proof

The frame is consistent with the stated beliefs of others. “I’m definitely going to pick up a girl tonight; after all, all my friends say I’m a total catch and I had ten Tinder matches tonight.”

Experience

It's much easier to hold a frame that you've successfully held before without any trouble. “I’m definitely going to pick up a girl tonight; every time I approach girls they’re into me.”

Belief

Having positive beliefs about yourself, and your capabilities will help a great deal. “I’m definitely going to pick up a girl tonight; I’m hot as hell.”

Strong Goals

If you are committed to getting something, you won't likely be dissuaded. “I’m definitely going to pick up a girl tonight; I’m 100% motivated to hook up tonight, it’s been a long time.”

Instinctive

In line with our basic instincts and needs (sex, food, shelter, etc). “I’m definitely going to pick up a girl tonight; I’m horny as hell.”

Examples of instinctive drives:

Food Social acceptance Relationships and sex Self Actualization - "This situation means I am going to gain knowledge, insight or skills that will put me closer to my goals."

Frames that align with one or more of these elements will tend to be easier to hold and thus “stronger” than competing frames that do not align with these elements.

Note that, even with all of these strengthening factors, the ultimate factor in determining a frame’s strength is simply the ability of its holder to maintain frame longer than everyone else.

It is possible, of course, for no frame to become dominant; if two people with conflicting frames simply refuse to accommodate one another and leave with both of their frames intact, then neither frame was “dominant”; the conflict ended in stalemate. This is not necessarily a bad thing!

FRAME IN PRACTICE: HOW TO BUILD A STRONG FRAME FROM SCRATCH

I found MRP in the same way that many of you did: Googling “why won’t my wife have sex with me?”

Coming into MRP from that perspective can be extremely frustrating. I was looking for some kind of quick fix to make my wife horny; instead, I found a bunch of advice on “ownership” and “leadership” and intellectual discussions of hypergamy.

The common thread through nearly all of the discussions I read was Frame - it came up over and over again, especially in comments on my OYS posts. People seemed to think I had lost the frame, or was in my wife’s frame, or needed to work on my frame….but what the hell did that actually mean? What, specifically, was I supposed to do to work on my frame?

The paragraphs above should give you a fairly detailed understanding of what frame is, and what it means to lose it:

Frame is your subjective interpretation of the events that happen around you. Frame is important because it influences our behavior and can create powerful positive or negative feedback loops. All frames are equally subjective; frames are good or bad only in the sense that they move us closer to or further away from our goals. When frames conflict, the person that holds their frame the longest will typically see their frame adopted by everyone else. Aligning your frame with the core characteristics of strong frames will make it easier to hold. If both people hold frames indefinitely, the conflict is simply a draw and nothing changes.

Holding frame becomes important when we realize that being dissuaded from a positive frame will move us further from our goals.

Likewise, if we can promote a positive frame and get others to adopt it, we can enable the people in our lives to move closer to their goals.

This was one of the major shifts in my thinking on frame, specifically in the context of MRP:

It is our ethical duty to help others adopt frames that are positive for them.

For example: let’s say we’re in a fight with our wife. She’s in a completely negative frame, blaming you for what’s wrong in her life. Her frame is inherently self-sabotaging, and doesn’t allow her to take responsibility for her situation and grow past it.

(This is assuming you are owning your shit and aren’t actually the cause of her problems, because if you are….you know. Knock that shit off.)

Now, your wife, despite all her problems, wants to be happy. We all do. We all want to be self-actualizing human beings, capable of pursuing our own dreams, resourceful enough to withstand an uncaring world. She may not know that she wants that, but she does.

If you allow her frame to overwhelm yours, you not only are moved further away from your own goals (by adopting a negative frame), but you allow your wife to move further away from her goals (by maintaining a negative frame).

Conversely, maintaining your own positive frame will both move you towards your goals and allow your wife to adopt a more positive frame, one that will enable her own growth and development.

Thus: it’s an ethical imperative that we do not allow the negative frames around us to overwhelm our own positive frames.

So, the question becomes:

How do we develop a strong, positive frame - and hold it?

PHASE 1: BUILDING A FRAME

There are three steps to building a positive frame:

Determining the frame Strengthening the frame Internalizing the frame

Let’s break those down, with specific exercises.

Determining the Frame

Consciously determining your frame ahead of the time is probably the single most powerful thing you can do to improve your overall frame control.

The plain fact is that most people do not have a frame in mind; they do not have a specific goal when entering a situation, nor make a conscious effort to think about how they will interpret the events that are likely to occur to them.

Most of us simply float through life, deep in our Reactive Frame, allowing our instinctive reactions to guide us.

Because of this, in most situations our frames will be both unconscious and weak. This is true of the people you interact with as well.

In a world filled with unconscious and weak frames, the consciously-chosen, strongly held frame will win out 9 times out of 10. It is a MASSIVE game-changer.

The method for this is simple: before you enter a situation, simply take a moment to pause, consciously decide on your frame, and hold that frame in your mind.

To remind myself to do this I practiced consciously deciding on a frame whenever I walked through a doorway. You could choose a similarly arbitrary trigger, or simply try to keep this task in mind while moving throughout the day.

The situation also doesn’t matter. Going to the grocery store? Pick a frame. Walking the dog? Pick a frame.

The specific frame really doesn’t matter in this instance; instead, we are simply practicing consciously choosing our frame in advance, and remembering that frame throughout the subsequent event.

Eventually we want to get to the point where we are intuitively and automatically selecting positive frames throughout our day. This will do more than anything else to strengthen our overall ability to hold frame and get others to adopt our frame.

Strengthening the Frame

So, we’re supposed to be setting frames throughout the day - but what frame do we set? How do we set a frame that’s both positive and strong?

Setting a Positive Frame

Remember, “positive” frames are entirely defined by their ability to help us in the pursuit of our goals. That means that, in order to set positive frames, we need to know what our goals are.

This can be surprisingly difficult. For many of us - myself included - we’ve been so bombarded by instructions on what we should want, from our wives, from our families, from society at large, that we’re profoundly out of touch with what we actually want.

In a very real way, the modern american man does not truly know himself or his desires. That puts us at a profound disadvantage when it comes to selecting positive frames.

It’s not up to me to tell you what you should want; only you can determine that. I also happen to think that that’s going to require deeper, more introspective work than can be addressed in this post.

So, for the moment, let’s simply leave it that you should be trying to get in touch with your deepest self, and finding out what it is you really want when freed of the influence of the world around you.

In the short term, though, you can work on setting short-term goals for the events you’re running into.

Need to return an item? My goal is the return this item even though I don’t have a receipt. Fight with the wife? My goal is to simply not apologize, because I don’t feel I did anything wrong. Got the kids for the day? My goal is to have fun, no matter what happens.

Don’t worry too much about whether your goal is the “right” one - in the beginning, just focus on having a desired outcome you can build a frame around.

Something I find very useful when setting goals for specific events is to make the outcome completely within my own control.

For example, I wouldn’t set a goal to “convince my wife she’s wrong;” after all, I don’t really have control over that. If I walk into that fight with that goal in mind, I’m giving my WIFE the power over whether I succeed or not.

Instead, I can set a goal to “hold my frame,” or even just to “practice holding frame.” These goals serve my needs, but are completely within my own control...regardless of what my wife does.

An example from my own marriage: over time I’d developed a real fear of initiating sex with my wife. I’d been rejected so many times that I experienced intense anxiety whenever I thought about initiating; that led me to half-ass my initiations, trying to save my ego by not putting too much effort into it. After all, if I got rejected I could console myself that I “didn’t really try.”

This obviously led to a lot of problems and, as negative frames tend to do, a feedback loop of rejections, leading to hurt feelings, leading to weak initiations, leading to more rejections.

To counteract this, I changed my goal from “get sex with my wife” to “practice initiating without acting hurt.” This way, the outcome was completely within my control - all I was trying to do was practice initiation. Whether or not I was rejected, I could be successful….breaking the negative feedback loop.

I can’t stress enough how important these small wins are, especially if you’ve had a track record of losing frame. Breaking the negative feedback loop and establishing a winning record - even on small, seemingly insignificant goals - will have HUGE positive effects on your ability to hold frame. As long as these small goals are moving you towards your ultimate desires, it’s better to focus on small wins early on, rather than swing for the fences and fall apart.

Setting a Strong Frame

Now that we’ve covered setting a positive frame, how can we make sure our frame is also strong?

To set a strong frame, we simply take the list of characteristics of strong frames mentioned above and work on internalizing evidence that our frame aligns with those characteristics.

As an example, let’s take the frame of “I’m a charming person.” That’s a powerful frame for driving us into positive social interactions.

But what if we’re secretly afraid that we’re a loser, and we’re not charming at all? Those negative beliefs will sabotage our ability to hold our new, positive frame.

To strengthen this frame, let’s go through the characteristics of strong frames and literally write down (or mentally catalogue) pieces of evidence that support it.


Social Proof

I have a bunch of friends, and they think I’m charming! I have a whole bunch of Twitter followers, too. Remember that girl, last summer? She said I was charming.

Experience

Whenever I hold this frame, things go really well for me.

Belief

Charm is a learnable skill, and I’m a great learner. I’ve been reading a bunch of blogs and I’m very good at internalizing information I read.

Strong Goals

Holding this frame will drastically increase my chances of finding a girlfriend, and that’s one of my big goals for this year.

Instinctive

Holding this frame will help me be more sociable and meet people, which will help me eventually find a mate.


You don’t need to go through every characteristic for every frame, but the more evidence you can amass and really believe, the easier it’ll be to hold the frame.

One of the nice things about this method is that, every time you successfully employ it, that success itself becomes further evidence that the frame is strong. After a while, you’ll fully internalize the frame, and actually start to take it for granted. That’s as strong as a frame can get.

Internalizing the Frame

OK - so, we’ve deliberately set a positive frame for an interaction beforehand.

We’ve also, either in the moment or beforehand, gone through and established a strong set of evidence that strengthens our frame.

Now - how do we internalize, and actually hold, the frame during the event?

This is where deliberate practice comes in.

Deliberate Practice is a process by which we push ourselves just beyond our capabilities, expanding those capabilities in the process.

For frame, the best practice is to simply concentrate on holding frame during an event. Simply hold the frame in your mind, don’t lose track of it, and don’t abandon it during the event.

If you’re in a fight with your wife, and your frame is “this is not a big deal,” simply continue acting like things are not a big deal, no matter what. If you’re returning an item, simply continue insisting that you can return the item until they accept it back. If you’re watching the kids for the day, and your frame is “I’m going to have fun no matter what,” simply continue having fun no matter how bad their behavior gets.

Simple, right?

Well, it should be. But it isn’t! It’s actually incredibly difficult - at least, it is for me - to maintain my frame in those situations.

Setting the frame deliberately, and strengthening the frame ahead of time, will improve your abilities by a great deal. But those two techniques alone will not be enough. In order to hold your frame in challenging circumstances, you’ll need to develop your overall Frame Control with deliberate practice - just like strengthening a muscle over time by lifting weights.

Below are a list of training exercises you can use to gradually increase your frame control over time:

Quick Pre-framing Drills Go into the supermarket with the intention to only buy one item, no matter what. Do this when you are starving. Buy something other than food. At a fast food restaurant, give your entire order while holding eye contact and smiling with the cashier. Go into a coffee shop with the intention of getting the staff to suggest your order. Hold eye contact until they make a suggestion. Don't give them anything to go off of. Choose three words you've never said before, and use them conversationally with friends. Choose a specific word to elicit from someone else without you telling them or using the words. Choose words people don't usually use. Go into any social situation with the intention of getting three names from three strangers. Work the area until successful. Do this is typical situations (parties, clubs, etc) as well as in the general public. Practicing Frame Conflict Return an item recently purchased but leave the receipt at home. No matter what the clerk says, practice saying "I understand that, and I'd like my money back." Set the intention of saying it at least ten times. Look out for disagreements among friends (for example, on where to eat). Whatever they say, agree, validate, then restate your case without trying to prove them wrong or yourself right. "I know that pizza is the delicious. I know that it's got a long history. I agree that it's the cornerstone of western civilization. These are all valid points that I unconditionally agree with. And I think bacon cheeseburgers are perhaps the best invention of mankind." Join any group where disagreements are common (book clubs, etc) and practice defending a specific frame. Daily Frame Review Find a situation from the day where you lost the frame. Review it in your mind. Slowly go through each step and think of something you could have done or said differently. Then imagine the situation in your mind as if it actually happened that way. Review this "new memory" several times. (For more on intense visualization, I recommend checking out the book “Psychocybernetics.”

Daily Practice Exercises Frame Observations - Watch other people. For each person, come up with at least three intentions and three potential frames for their situation. What do they want? What meanings are they giving to their environment? Find pairs or groups that are sitting. Try to determine who is controlling the frame. Do they hold it? Does it shift? Reframing - At the end of the day, review any event that made you feel like a victim. How did you interpret that event? What would be a different way to interpret it? Can you find any evidence that supports this new meaning? Any evidence that counteracts the negative interpretation? Pre-Framing - Do this as often as possible. Before going into any situation, ask yourself: What do I want? Be as specific and reasonable as possible. State your intention before going in. I will get X or something better. Ask yourself before going in with a pre-set frame: How will I interpret events in light of what I want? What meanings support me getting what I want?)

My suggestion on using these exercises is to simply schedule one for each day. Go through the list pick one you haven’t done in a while, and focus on practicing it a few times as you go about your business.


As I said in the beginning, I’m not some weird Frame Grandmaster. In fact, the only reason I have all this information to hand is because I’ve had to consciously explore, research, and practice everything about frame.

I hope some people find this useful, and I’d love feedback. I will do my best to answer questions to the best of my ability.

Cheers, everyone.


SOURCES

Much of the exercises mentioned above were taken from the book "Frame Control", by George Hutton. That was a fantastic resource, although sometimes confusingly organized. I recommend it if you want a deeper dive, and it's a short read.

The Rational Male - therationalmale.com

/u/strategos_autokrator - https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/337uvx/the_elements_of_frame_0_introduction/

This excellent series of posts was a real eye-opener. I don't THINK it was ever completed - hopefully it will be. You can find the rest by searching for "elements of frame" in /marriedredpill.

TheRedArchive is an archive of Red Pill content, including various subreddits and blogs. This post has been archived from the subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill.

/r/MarriedRedPill archive

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Comments

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUsMRP APPROVED25 points26 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I just read Frame Control, and thought it was great. But your post is even better.

[–]welshmin16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just wanted to say that when these long posts come up, it's hard to know ahead of time if it is worth the read or not.

So I truly appreciate comments like this. Going back to read now.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks a lot!

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUsMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, seriously, thank you. Maybe I was just ready for this, but reading this post just feels like so many different puzzle pieces all just falling into place.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely the same feeling I got.

[–]lookatmybigclock14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This post should be put on the sidebar. Incredible work.

[–]zeteomegaleio2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, this is a superb post. Great work OP.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Great post.

FYI: The full set of posts from u/Stratgos_autokrator on frame:

The Elements of Frame Introduction 0

The Elements of Frame 1 Physical Basis

The Elements of Frame 2 Intellectual Basis

The Elements of Frame 3 Emotional Basis

His final line in Frame 3 was.....

In a future post I will discuss the peak of the tripod, the Vision.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the links. This guy is amazing - I read through most of his post history and got SO much from it.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

One of the first posts I read, and it hit me like a ton of bricks was by u/BluePillProfessor. It was his first post here. He actually jolted me and started my journey.

The second poster, that had probably the greatest initial impact for me was u/Strategos_autokrator . Then u/UEMcGill, u/JackTenofHearts WhinemorePlease, CAD, u/Sepean u/SorcererKing were all very active and were some of the first ones to advise me when I started. The list of men that contributed to my life after that is very long. Thanks everyone.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ive always been a big fan of stragos but have no idea when he is ever coming back.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

He may have come to that point where the sub is redundant learned information and ceases to ad value. Good place to be.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

was by u/BluePillProfessor. It was his first post here. He actually jolted me and started my journey.

Remember tempest cup's answer to him?

worthy of any of the best anyone has gotten here.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think I could have given any better answer. Maybe she is really a man. Someone says there are no women on the internet. lol

Edit: makes you wonder if some of our advice is getting feminized over time????????

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

First time I ever read that post from the professor. Never knew how well the username worked back in the day. wow

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I am still amazed at the amount of bad blue-pill blood there is for u/BluePillProfessor . Complete honesty is not tolerated in Bloop Land. You know those guys are against hate speech and all.

[–]weakandsensitive6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

So what exactly happened to the insecure faggot posting every other day on askMRP on how to wipe his ass? What changed?

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I am still that dude in many ways. Just looking for ways to help myself.

I also had a few "traumatic events" (mostly why I was on here crying) that actually instilled a level of DGAF. And everything changed from there - I stopped worrying about my wife's reaction, stopped worrying about "doing it the MRP way," stopped worrying about most shit in general. It just became about "I love my life. I'm going to have an awesome life, no matter what."

The rate of change in my life and marriage more or less tripled after that.

I don't think that's "over" or that I won't keep fucking up or slide backwards at some point. It's just that that all feels like feedback, something that helps me point me in the right way, rather than something disastrous.

[–]anythingincMRP APPROVED - Blue Pill Diplomat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

1 month ago

The Emotional Rollercoaster by resolutions316 in marriedredpill

anythinginc:

the silver lining is that OPs frame is getting better.

From that to this. Great job OP.

Nobody should think this came out of nowhere or OP just willed it to happen. It is right there in his OYS posts from the past few weeks. Work, introspection, feedback, improvement.

[–]BrazilRedPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember you, you are internalizing some changes you wanted in order to become a better a man. It's a huge difference from your old posts and this masterpiece. Congratulations!

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

his balls were lost, but now they are found

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

his balls were lost, but now they are found

Was blind but now he sees.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound. {End of music.}

Even if you aren't religious, 'tis a beautiful song.

[–]SepeanMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There are a lot of things that people seem to find value in, like positive thinking, that I don't. Just believe in yourself and good things will happen, it does nothing for me. I've always had massive self esteem; like first semester at university my probability theory professor gave a lecture on the Monty Hall problem, and afterwards I approached him and explain him that he was wrong (which of course he wasn't).

What weakened my frame was that I used to think that the way to improve relations with my ingroup was to be nice, but that turned out to be nothing but social conditioning bullshit. People don't reciprocate.

To me, frame at its core is simply being perfectly ok with other people being inconvenienced or annoyed with my actions and ideas.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

To me, frame at its core is simply being perfectly ok with other people being inconvenienced or annoyed with my actions and ideas.

This is my definition as well. It's easier said than done though. It takes time to fully embrace this mindset. For some, I think it's nearly impossible.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

In a lot of ways this is still my biggest stumbling block - discomfort with others' discomfort, the need to be liked.

I have to work hard to reframe those situations and think about them in a different way. I'm hoping that that process will become automatic, and then unnecessary, over time.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i have to work hard to reframe those situations and not think about them at all.

FTFY

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUsMRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you google "100 days of rejection," you'll see some particularly vivid examples of a strong frame overcoming weak frames, as well as one way of building your frame skills. The guy doing it doesn't talk in terms of frame, and ironically seems to have drawn a completely different set of lessons from his experience. But it's obvious that what he's doing is really all about frame.

Everyday for 100 days he sets himself the task of making an absurd request of someone, and then videotapes the result. Typical examples are things like knocking on a random door and asking "Can I play soccer by myself in your backyard?" or asking a Starbucks manager if he can volunteer for an hour as a greeter.

The original point was simply to desensitize himself to rejection. But he soon finds that a surprisingly large number of people are willing to go along with his requests. You can almost see them thinking, "Leting some strange kid into my backyard to play soccer is ridiculous. But he seems to think its a reasonable thing to ask. Why not?"

Interestingly, he says the magic word he learned to use when people say no is "why?" Just asking them why they said no often causes them to change their minds. He has his own theory for why this works, but the MRP explanation is clear enough: "Why" is an invitation to DEER, and once you've got someone DEERing, you've already got them in your frame.

I first came across this years ago - long before I found MRP. But it's eye-opening to go back now and see it in a whole new light.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

wow, that's super fascinating. definitely want to check this out.

The "why" question is absolutely incredible as well. My sales coach tells me that whenever someone brings up an objection, simply pausing, then asking "What do you mean?" can absolutely shatter their frame. It's crazy to see it work.

[–]Westernhagen2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The "why" question is absolutely incredible as well. My sales coach tells me that whenever someone brings up an objection, simply pausing, then asking "What do you mean?" can absolutely shatter their frame. It's crazy to see it work.

Coming back at your "Why?" with BROKEN RECORD, sucka!

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hahahaha - very true. Works very well!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is one of those posts that clarifies all those disparate thoughts in your head and makes you think it was so simple all along.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Reminds me a lot of stoic philosophy - interpretation of external events, setting internal goals vs ones you cant control, etc .

I think what i struggle with is, as a life long nice guy, i can almost viscerally feel when im breaking someones frame. I can feel the power shifting and too often I immediately pull back, thinking I'm being too strong or hurting them. However, it is either my frame or theirs. Practice for me means pushing just a little bit longer than my comfort zone. I still get surprised at how little it upsets people when they lose frame, most of the time.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is true for me too. It means you need to have a positive frame for the frame conflict itself (for me it was, "this is ethical - in replacing a negative frame with a positive one.")

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

dear gawd. excellent post.

The turning point for me was when I realized that at work I can calm things down, or even stop potential situations by just being there. My presence alone was enough to influence the people around me.

Much like the command presence I gave off when I was a company commander in the Army. Once I realized this was my frame and I asked why can't I do that in all my relationships and even at home. Things changed for me.

Now people ask if I am still in the military or if reinstated my commission. When asked they always say I have a strong military bearing about me. that's a sign that I am dominating just by my presence.

The hardest part for a long time was that I could not accept who and what I was. that was the biggest struggle for me. Not just the masculine but at the core of what I am. How I think and respond. I felt that it wasn't right in today's society. That I should be more like X or even Z. Look what that got me.

I trained in the Martial Arts for many years and most of it was in iaido, kendo, and kenjutsu. 90% of that training is training your mind, developing mushin.

Mushin is a mental state into which trained martial artists are said to enter during combat. It is a state in which a martial artist should be practicing and it can be achieved in other areas of your life (one reason samurai dedicated themselves to art as well as war). It means no mind. Where you flow from situation to situation. You are not fixed on any thought or emotion.

When you free yourself from thought, emotion, ego there is absence of negative thoughts and judgment. Then you can act without hesitation, without thinking what the right thing should be but what is intuitive and natural and what you have trained to do.

Today it would be better expressed as "in the zone". we have all felt it in sports or music or any activity where we feel mind and body responding as one.

There is no intention, there is no plan, there is no direction, just exist and be.

For me frame is this constant state. It is my world. It is my mind. I flow through it and achieve my objectives one after the other. Without no thought with no judgment. It is amoral, because it is mine.

Yes. this is likely way more metaphysical then it needs to be but then that's how I think. that's who I am. It works for me.

It's my world.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First step in the continum of force... presence.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Today it would be better expressed as "in the zone"

In music it's called being in the pocket, and it's fucking Nirvana.

In your training, do they teach to try and walk around in this state, or to always be ready to enter this state if you find your self in combat?

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes to both. Ideally it's a state you want to be able to just enter into without thought...it just happens. Which again is why you are encouraged to enter the arts and such. You can find this state in all that you do. Clear mind. Clear thoughts.

Like applying yourself to a task. You just do it....for lack of a better way or expressing it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I go to cinema

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd say I'm present.

[–]JudgeDoom69MRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for this explanation of frame, it's the best I've read so far.

IMHO, Viktor Frankl is one of the best and most extreme cases of holding frame. Working as a slave laborer in a Nazi concentration camp, he held his frame and viewed his world as he chose, and helped many others to do the same. Reading his story, it makes passing a common Shit Test seem like a walk in the park.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, he's incredible. His book changed my way of thinking about the world.

[–]rocknrollchuckMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great job, OP! There are many posts on here about theory, but I love the practical, actionable advice. That's what sets this apart from the rest.

Mods, please consider adding this to the sidebar.

[–]Maraur1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never delete this post.

[–]MrFuckupKing1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most heterosexual men know the experience of being intimidated by a woman. Maybe she is beautiful or maybe she is angry but the feeling of being intimidated is there.

Frame starts with mindfulness and mindfulness starts with acceptance of emotions and men are not good at this because they run from being aware of what they are feeling. They suffer from a "fear of fear" as fear of the emotional self when these emotions make them feel weak and in danger.

Men are taught in countless ways to hide what they are feeling and this separates them from self awareness.

You can hide what you are feeling all you want from others but don't hide from yourself.

The deeper the awareness of where you are at "in the moment" at any given moment the more difficult it will be to push you out of your own mind "frame"

Losing frame is losing self awareness and when you stop being self aware it is easy for others to "own your mind"

Losing frame is similar to not being able to set boundaries with people so they can invade your space, including the space of your own mind. The more you run from yourself the easier it is for others to own you (push you out of your own frame/mind)

It is likely that a woman can push a man out of his frame easier than another man can. Trust, needs,wants and threat assessment have much to do with this.

Perfect frame does not come out of paranoia but a calm centeredness. It is a state of enlightened self awareness.

Martial arts training that has a spiritual component teach frame but without calling it frame.

Frame comes out of the relationship you have with your own mind as its relationship with everything else.

[–]Coniferous_881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent observation on Fogging. This is such a powerful technique, and I think you nailed it on why it works so well. Excellent post.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a brilliant writrup.

Frame, in this broader context, incorporates your intellectual, emotional, and physical “stability.”

I personally have internalized the word "stubbornness", but maybe that has too negative a connotation to it.

The truth of the matter is that in nearly every situation you will encounter, every one has an incredibly weak frame.

So so true. Which is kind of funny because in a situation where I'm simply talking to one, maybe two people, I know that my frame is easily adopted if I simply push it with a modest effort. The hard part comes in when:

The dominant frame in any situation is the one which the group adopts.

So in group scenarios, there can come a point where it doesn't matter how stable or stubborn your are...the group frame will win out. In a statistical sense, it's like if you are stubborn with your frame, your frame will win out 75% of the time. This is because everyone else is walking around with weak frames which only win out 25% of the time. But when people get in a group, it seems as if those odds stack (nonlinearly) so that a group of four who all have weak frames may now have a 70% chance of holding frame against you. This is why the divide and conquer tactic works.

But moreso than that, I think the biggest point you made that impacts me is:

Our interpretations of the world around us influence how we act towards it.

Simple in theory, but really eye opening to read. Frame includes not just the ideas you push on the world, but also the ideas you allow the world to push on you. Or more to your point, how you interpret the signals the world gives to you, and then allow yourself to be influenced by them. So that if you use the same stubbornness you use to push your ideas onto the world also for what interpretation and influence you allow of the world...you can take total control of your frame. I think this is a large sticking point with me because:

The Reactive Frame is largely unconscious

And

System 1 is essentially on all the time,

And if your upbringing sets you up so that System 1 is constantly interpretting things negatively, it may take a lot more concentration and practice to override that frame. And in addition, I feel that sometimes I walk around ENTIRELY in System 1. I've described before in another post the difference between System 1 and System 2 in a different set of words...asking readers to sit back in their chair and mentally become more aware of their surroundings, broaden their mind to consider more than just what is 6 feet around you (System 2), and then let that conscious awareness go, almost allowing the mind to take over, defocusing into a reactionary mindset involving only things within 6 feet of you (System 1). Described another way it could be reptilian brain vs conscious brain. All the same point...but your essay reinforces that System 2 should be used as practice in order to train System 1 to better interpret the world in a positive frame.

 

I'm with ParadoxThatDrivesUs. I dont know where this came from out of you but there are so many puzzle pieces that come together in this post...it will definintely be one I'll be rereading again and again.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is possible, of course, for no frame to become dominant; if two people with conflicting frames simply refuse to accommodate one another and leave with both of their frames intact, then neither frame was “dominant”; the conflict ended in stalemate. This is not necessarily a bad thing!

lol, my marriage in a nutshell . . . except it is kinda a bad thing in a marriage

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

You present some very interesting thoughts. Let me share some initial reservations in the interest of furthering the discussion.

Frame is your subjective interpretation of the events that happen around you.

  • The emphasis on subjectivity leans dangerously toward solipsism. Perhaps frame itself is solipsistic, but this provides no practical guidance toward selecting a frame, nor any deeper reason for holding a given frame against another other than a contest of wills. You try to address this with your concept of 'positive' and 'negative' frames, but this just pushes the solipsism to the selection of arbitrary 'goals'. But on what basis are the goals selected? For me, my goals often emerge from my frame, rather than vice versa.

  • This describes frame as reactive ... things happen and you respond. I feel frame as proactive, though, the prior mindset that shapes the world as well as responds to it.

Frame is the meaning you bring to any situation.

For myself I would say, rather, that my frame emerges from my values, beliefs, and desires. As do my goals. This provides

  • congruence between my goals and my frame,

  • a constant reference point that sets and adapts my frame in all situations (no need for "pre-framing" every interaction throughout the day, and no loss of frame when the unanticipated occurs),

  • principled reasons for holding my frame in all situations.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

frame itself is solipsistic

Frame is solipsistic. Therefore, strong individual reality don't even recognize the notion of a contest of will.

frame emerges from my values, beliefs, and desires.

You're attributing too much BS to frame. Frame is simply - here is how I will interact with the world, if the world doesn't want to interact with me in that way, fuck it.

You're infusing ego into frame, hence you're fucking up your understanding.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

frame emerges from my values, beliefs, and desires.

Frame is simply - here is how I will interact with the world

I see no inherent contradiction. This is how I personally decide how I will interact with the world.

if the world doesn't want to interact with me in that way, fuck it.

Precisely! You may have a different means of deciding that for yourself. Feel free to share it if you care to interact with us in that way.

[–]weakandsensitive2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

you're missing the nuance between interaction and ego which feeds "values, beliefs, desires" - but that's okay. injecting ego is going to lead to butthurt when you don't get your way, which inherently detracts from "if the world doesn't want to interact with me in that way, fuck it." it's going to be a "i'm taking my ball and going home" fuck it. this comment is less for the person i'm replying to and more for everyone else who might read it.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

you're missing the nuance between interaction and ego which feeds "values, beliefs, desires"

This is really interesting to me ... I (perhaps atypically) experience my 'values' ("humans are intrinsically more important than other animals"), 'beliefs' ("western empirical science is the fullest knowledge available of how the world works"), and 'desires' ("damn, that cookie looks tasty") rather impersonally ... more as facts of nature rather than feelings. It hadn't consciously occurred to me until your comment that this creates a kind of distance or detachment between my frame and my ego in the heat of the interaction that for me actually reduces butthurt and helps me maintain frame, and even graciousness, when (to pick some random examples) discussing how much to spend on prolonging a pet cat's life, talking with a colleague advocating chinese medicine to rebalance chi or evolutionary psychology with a feminist, or responding to my mother's pressure to have a freshly-baked cookie.

So my lived experience in detail may be the opposite of yours but the larger point of detaching frame from ego may be shared; or maybe we mean different things by the terms 'values', 'beliefs', 'desires', and 'ego' and are talking past each other; or maybe I once again am failing to grasp your point.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't think you are and I think this is a good explanation of the disconnect.

western empirical science is the fullest knowledge available of how the world works

For example, an argument could easily be made that the scientific funding process and peer review is in many ways a total joke (source: PhD). If someone's bought into the religion of science (and not the scientific method exclusively), an identity component has just been challenged.

The question is minimizing the amount of ego invested into the belief systems that construct an individual's frame. That is, a person's worldview is defined by their identity (see also - why kids who are told they are inherently smart struggle more when working through problems).

Ego (for the most part) is easily triggered. Frame shouldn't be.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you for taking the time to clarify for me.

I finally get it now: while for me building frame on a belief/value system provides a helpful detachment from my ego, there are people who build their identity on their "values" (such as SJWs and White Knights) who would make themselves highly vulnerable with this approach. And given that many here are newly unplugging from a BP mindset, your caution may be particularly relevant.

an argument could easily be made that the scientific funding process and peer review is in many ways a total joke

Could very easily and with great justice be made.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sweet. Glad we learned together!

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I think the dividing line I tried to draw here between frame and goals is largely arbitrary.

My problem was that I was/am having trouble figuring out what my needs/desires truly are, vs. what I've internalized from living within other's frames for so long.

The idea of a larger, "meta" frame emerging from your core values is a powerful one, just wasn't or isn't one I feel fully capable or achieving at the moment. My hope is that the "small wins" described here build my ability to hold and develop frame over time, which itself puts me in deeper touch with what I really want and believe.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is our ethical duty to help others adopt frames that are positive for them.

I think your positive frame idea coupled with the above statement is headed toward a similar place as mine, and is the beginnings of your own personal values-based larger, "meta" frame.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah - I'm a bit worried about where this leads - i.e to the "self sacrificial" mindset that underlies most of my problems. Essentially, a covert contract.

I think the key is to really internalize the fact that I can help people, but it's their perfect right not to ACCEPT that help, and not to expect thanks for it.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's their perfect right not to ACCEPT that help, and not to expect thanks for it.

Yes. I can give. I am also free to take away if there is a lack of appreciation.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the key is to really internalize the fact that I can help people, but it's their perfect right not to ACCEPT that help, and not to expect thanks for it.

Yes, this. Needing them to accept your help creates a codependency, and expecting thanks is a covert contract.

Never forget that if

it is our ethical duty to help others people adopt frames that are positive for them

you are people, too, and this must apply at least as much to you as to anyone else. Never be a martyr. Just as with oxygen masks in an airplane, always take care of yourself first, so that you have maximum capacity to take care of others in accordance with your chosen missions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is our ethical duty to help others adopt frames that are positive for them.

Surly looks out for one guy, Surly

[–]ParadoxThatDrivesUsMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you believe that you have principled reasons for holding your frame in all situations and never experience loss of frame when the unanticipated occurs, you're either the most well-adjusted person who ever lived or you're deluding yourself.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I doubt that there is anyone who never loses frame in any situation; I'm certainly not perfect! I do find for myself that trying to build a "principled" frame decreases its inconsistency and reduces the holes that make it more vulnerable to unanticipated situations or to attack, and it often provides a basis for adapting on the spot in such situations. YMMV.

Also see /u/weakandsensitive's cautions about a potential danger of this approach in the neighboring comment threads.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

To be honest I had a difficult time getting through this post.

For me, it was a much simpler thing. Maybe thats wrong but here it is:

This is my life. These are the things that make me happy within the context of my life. These are the things that are extraneous to that , and therefore useless, throw them out.

So, person scowls in my general direction. If I even notice it, I will assume they are upset about something. Thats the social cue. If I care about my interactions with that person I may ask them about the scowl. At no point do I assume its directed at me. But lets say I am told that its at me...

it doesn't matter other than for informational purposes. I may use this information, I may not. Either way, its not something that penetrates my identity.

I am not the man that got scowled at, I am the man who observed a scowl

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have yet to see a post where someone can actual translate frame in something that you can understand. I've tried, strategos tried, this guy tried. It's one of them things like trying to explain what a color looks like.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand frame just fine.

Frame is easy. This is my world, the rest of you just live in it.

Strat and you did a a good job. I will look up your post to see what you wrote but the bottom line is, frame is very simple.

And while a practical guide to developing one is good, the theme is the same in all of em :

Break your anxiety about what could happen and make the right moves and responses for you

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

To be honest I had a difficult time getting through this post.

Me too. I appreciate the time and effort OP put into this post, but the concept of frame is way less cerebral than all this....but that's just me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

and its ok.

I would rather a guy break it down and built it up for himself and others than not get it at all.

what ever it takes

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Agreed. Other guys got a ton from it and I'm all for that.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup - this is 100% just the way I need to think about and processing things I am not inherently good at.

This is essentially "Emotions For The Autistic", but for frame.

[–]Balldogs-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy fuck dude, I didn't read any of that shit once I realised that it was a similar length to the director's cut of War and Peace. Seriously, learn to precis.

And how fucking redpill do you think you are nerding out like a massive beta, slaving for hours over some manifesto that no cunt is ever going to really do more than skim read? How many plates did you let slip by while you were writing this?

HOW MANY?

This is some serious mangina shit, by making us read this you're contributing to pulling us out of eating more pussy, which I personally really enjoy. I eat so much pussy that I scare Chinese restaurants, and reading just the beginning of your fucking fantasy epic made me eat three less pussies. THREE. Those are pussies I won't be getting back. Bitches got bored waiting for me to finish reading your cucked attempt at Tolstoy, you massive shitflower.

Anyway, those pussies won't eat themselves, I can't waste any more valuable redpill time on this bullshit.

Eating vaccines caused 9/11.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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