Depressive and Anxious Wives: Transformation and Building Escape (Part 2)

June 13, 2019

If you’ve read my previous post about Depressive and Anxious wives, this is a continuation of that topic. If you want to get anything out of Part 2, I suggest you go back and read my first post to put this into your mind: It’s all your fault.

This post’s audience is intended for the Intermediate or Advanced MRP guy. If you haven’t been at this for 6 months or more, save it, and come back to it later. Until then, you’ll likely try to implement the concepts of frame escape on a shitty weak frame which will fail. Trust me. I did.

Your wife is looking for you to not only lead her out of her depressive and anxious states, but to do so with great truth and authenticity. After watching some men who have built a decent frame come back into MRP and ask why their wives are still nuclear shit testing them everyday (this was me at many points) despite them fucking her brains out, I was compelled to write what I think is the missing puzzle piece: Transforming your frame to be a place of escape.


  • Entire sidebar? If no, go do that now. Being with a depressive, anxious or crazy wife requires fundamentals to build something that resembles a frame. You must understand the concept of fogging better than anyone. STFU is equally as important.
  • Once done with the sidebar, Read TWOTSM again. I prefer the audiobook version because it has great narration with a strong masculine voice. It’s also concisely broken into chapters that make sense to listen to all at once or in parts. In my opinion, TWOTSM teaches you how to move your wife from emotion to emotion effortlessly with your masculinity. Yes, it’s kind of hippie, but you’ll be moving the energy in your relationship.
  • You’ve developed some form of frame, likely operating with some DNGAF. That’s foundational to creating an escape.
  • You like you wife. Yes, you probably love her. But do you like her? This is a painful road and if you don’t like her, it simply will not work and she will see right through you.
  • You’re willing to take the tough road and do the hard work.

So, here we go, how to take all that negative energy and turn it around for both of you.

Step 1: Build your frame. But don’t destroy hers.

I won’t spend much time here talking about how to build your frame because it’s been extensively covered in many posts here on MRP. Whatever that frame is, fucking own it. That’s you. Don’t be afraid to be who you are anymore.

You’re probably not ready to start shifting her frame into yours because you’re still figuring out who the fuck you are. Follow all the sage MRP advice on building frame and understand that you will not and cannot change her frame. Your goal is NEVER to change her. It is to invite her into your frame where she can relax from her own. And your frame is a place of abundance, fun, and masculine power.

The last thing you want to do is destroy her frame. Later, I’ll explain how I think you can use it to your advantage.

Step 2: Learn from your wife.

She will shit test you to the ends of the earth because she desires the best in you. Your wife knows who you are and is likely more emotionally aware than you think she is. Had a bad day at work? She feels that shit, bro. Turned down for sex and you launched out of bed to go lift? She knows, bro. Take the opportunity everytime something is going sideways or you’re getting a shit test to say to yourself: What is my wife trying to teach me here? Likely, she is trying to teach you to operate in your frame, always. She WANTS you to stand in the face of her absurd emotions as the oak gently swaying in the wind saying to her, “Babe, I see what you’re doing here. It’s OK. I’m here. What’s up?” Calibrate your actions accordingly. Take notes in the beginning if necessary, but keep them hidden.

Step 3: Initially caretake by using Advanced Fogging.

If you wife is depressed, anxious and generally batshit crazy it’s likely because she is needy. She’s missing something. She looks to you to provide it to her (as she does with everything in her life). Needy women attract needy men. It’s likely that your beta behaviors have been needy which fuels this type of outburst behavior from your wife. Be aware that’s how you got here. Non-needy men do not have time for needy women because we have better shit to do. This is your long term plan.

Eventually you’ll transform her neediness into sexual emotion, intimacy and a desire to escape. Does that sound like something you want?

For now, you need to caretake a bit. This stage can last a few weeks or a few months. For me, it took about 3-4 months of caretaking from a masculine frame before the needle moved for me. You do shit for her because it makes your life easier. Pickup the extra chores. Make her some coffee in the morning when you make yours. Give her a break from cooking sometimes and do it yourself because you want to be better at it. The most important thing you can do in this stage is to take it on the chin like a boss.

She wants to talk? Listen, and STFU. She hates her life and the kids and wants to die? “That sucks babe. I imagine that makes you feel awful.” Then STFU. LEARN TO FOG. Get down in the trenches with her, but don’t be a placating emotional tampon. Maintain that you are there to listen, and nothing more. Don’t try to fix this – in fact, you don’t want to fix it. You want to harness this energy later.

Why are you caretaking? You need to let her know that you are safe. You don’t judge. You are the oak. You are a man that can take the worst of her shit tests and it doesn’t phase you. You caretake in this period to show strength.

Are you a man of strength and resolve? Do you gladly give your energy positively to her so that she can begin to move away from her shitty frame into yours? The only way to achieve your frame as being a place of escape is NO JUDGEMENT. You’ll find yourself saying shit like: “AWALT” or “She’s just being a bitch today” or “What a fucking complaining cunt all the time”. You are judging. Your goal is to get her to understand that her tests are not going to move you but rather you can use her tests and emotions to move her.

Step 4: Transition the caretaking to the bedroom.

This was a crucial step for my own personal success. A post here inspired me to rethink how I used sex to caretake – which meant that sexual contact doesn’t always equal sex.

When you awake every morning, you have a raw energy to go and conquer the world. Since the beginning of man, we woke up thinking about what to do that day – how the world was going to challenge us – and how strong we needed to remain with our energy to face the dangers and challenges of what’s out there. Often, we seek release from such constraint. It can come in the form of sports, breaking barriers, or sexual release through orgasm.

Your woman has a duality to her nature that creates dissonance. She wants to drain you of your energy in the form of orgasm because it pleases her man. But conversely, she also knows that if she can drain you she knows that the world can as well. Therefore, an orgasm that your wife draws out of you becomes somewhat of a power struggle over the long term.

Have you ever withheld ejaculation? It’s a way of taking back that power… more of my thoughts on this are here. But it’s my personal belief that learning to do this on a small scale will help transform caretaking into true OI towards your wife, which she will feel. And it will continue to feelz like caretaking in a sexual way.

At some point she will be comfort testing you and you’ll respond with the kiss on the forehead, or simple caretaking. You’ll need to move that into the bedroom at some point, usually in the form of providing her comfort lying down with you. Escalate with her and eventually she might be receptive to your sexual advances. When she’s grabbed your cock – stop. Allow her to do whatever it is that she wants to. If she wants to fuck, “Baby, not tonight. I’d like to build this up through tomorrow.” STFU. Watch. She will either agree, or try to push forward. Don’t let her make you cum.

The next day she will be thinking about it – I guarantee it. Before you were a selfish lover, perhaps focused on the act of ejaculation, but now you’re focused on pleasure and intimacy. She is focused on comfort, still. And then you’re on the road to getting pleasure, intimacy, domination and comfort all in a single nice package.

Step 5: Training your wife

Remember how your wife is coming to bed for comfort? You need to continue to keep this up as an expectation that this is the way that she will receive comfort and alleviate her stress there. I started by offering covert encouragement: “I like how you’re relaxed when you come to bed now.” Or “Something is much better when you come to bed now.” You’re encouraging the type of behavior that you enjoy. Covertly let her know that what she is doing pleases you.

I just started by cuddling her in bed with her facing me, then taking her hand and placing it on my cock. And I did not initiate. If she wanted to, she could. If not, fine. But what you can’t do is take her hand and initiate in the early stages of her training. Remember – you’re trying to create a space where she can explore comfort and intimacy at the same time without any pressure of sexual release.

What does this do? It resets the scoreboard, and allows her to enter your frame on her own accord. When it comes to sex – your wife and you have probably constructed this stupid scoreboard of covert contracts that says “One point for cleaning the kitchen, I just need 5 more until I can get laid”. That’s gone, motherfucker. Eventually she will enter your frame, look around and say, “Where is the scoreboard?” (Read that link at least 3 times).

You must rebuild the trust that any sexual advances that you make are from a place of true abundance and giving. See, you’re giving your wife yourself. She is no longer giving herself to you, you are taking her.

This is where you begin compliance testing her. Ask her to make you lunch. Ask her to grab you a glass of water on the way to bed. She will jump at the opportunity to give back to you within your frame. If she does not, she has yet to accept that she will enter your frame – likely with more destructive behaviors – until she submits to a better relationship dynamic of living within your frame.

Occasionally, be vulnerable and authentic to her about inconsequential matters. I once had a problem with my face breaking out. I simply went to her and said, “Hey babe, so…. My face is breaking out more often. It’s not bothering me just yet, but I’m sure it will. Would you mind picking me up some stuff at the store that would help? I know you’re good at that stuff.” All within that sentence I was able to convey: Vulnerability (face breaking out), checking in with my FO (do you have a good idea?), and leading (compliance testing).

With all this said, it’s a strategy. It’s ultimately a sexual strategy. But if you truly embrace the woman that she is and yes, you must like her, you’ll likely discover some things along the way that you too like and want to change.

Masculine comfort for the depressive or anxious wife is exactly the recipe that SHE needs in order to enter your frame. Moreso than most women. Calibrate accordingly but allow yourself to give what you want.

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Post Information
Title Depressive and Anxious Wives: Transformation and Building Escape (Part 2)
Author HornsOfApathy
Upvotes 71
Comments 19
Date June 13, 2019 2:48 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link
Original Link
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[–]friggandfrayed5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Gold. Everyone should read this.

This is for every wife/LTR. Every single one. Each woman experiences anxiety/depression/craziness, even if just occasionally. Even for the one off situations, this a great guide so they can be handled within your frame and with the best possible outcome.

[–]LongRoad_5183 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is excellent. A great guide to what you've been helping me with.

Don’t be afraid to be who you are anymore.

If there's one key takeaway to frame and MRP it's this. Do not be afraid of who you are, do not apologize for it, do not be shamed into thinking it's wrong. Your wife thinks you're too interested in sex? Own that shit, "Hell ya I love sex". She may get mad, bitchy, whatever, but you're immovable - sex is important to you and that's perfectly fine. If she doesn't like it, she is free to get out of the relationship.

She WANTS you to stand in the face of her absurd emotions as the oak gently swaying in the wind saying to her

I don't think you truly can understand this until she is raging with such crazy emotions and you are steady. Then you realize "wow, this is what it means to have frame, she's a raging bitch and I'm not responding to her accusations and shame. I know who I am and what I want.

Before you were a selfish lover, perhaps focused on the act of ejaculation, but now you’re focused on pleasure and intimacy. She is focused on comfort, still. And then you’re on the road to getting pleasure, intimacy, domination and comfort all in a single nice package.

This hits home and makes perfect sense! My wife doesn't connect comfort w. sex. Need to wrap it all up together.

I just started by cuddling her in bed with her facing me, then taking her hand and placing it on my cock.

This is a great idea... I'm stealing it.

[–]HornsOfApathy[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My wife doesn't connect comfort w. sex. Need to wrap it all up together.

It really is all about presenting a complete package to her that she will inevitably look forward to.

It takes time and discipline to wrap them all into one. The slightest hint of Rambo, and you're reset back to zero. Butthurt at rejection? Reset to zero.

All you're really doing here is eliminating the scoreboard and leading her to a safe place where she can accept your gifts and do so with enthusiasm.

Just last night we were laying in bed at a family members house. The bedrooms are close together and it's kind of an unsaid rule that we don't have sex here. It wouldn't be a place where she would be comfortable - or so I thought. Cue bedtime, we're laying next to each other and she has her hand on my leg. I chose to roll over, put my hand up her shirt and caress her tits and play with her a bit. "We can't do this tonight!" she says. "I know, babe" I say, "I'm just going to play with you for a little bit". That little bit of play allowed me to take control, moving her to more aggressive playing - she pulls out my cock, and I remind her, "We can't do this tonight!". We didn't have sex, but damned if she wasn't grinding so hard I have carpet burn on my dick today. I ended the session with a gentle kiss and a goodnight.

What do you think is going to happen tonight now? She will be thinking about how enjoyable that was all day today.

And all of that? FUN. Exciting. Intimate. Comfort. Dominance.

And no sex. Even though we could have, I know this builds a package that is attractive.

When my wife told me once "This is my favorite part of my day" I knew I had developed that package of escape. That's the escape you're creating. The escape into you.

[–]HerukaArisen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's funny. I remember reading your original post (pt. 1) and somehow not really being able to digest it at the time. When you keep hearing "It's all your fault" over and over again, it can also feel discouraging and depressing. But it is still the truth and will always be. As long as you think that in order for things to change, someone else needs to change, you really have not swallowed any red pills whatsoever.

[–]it-is_what-it_is1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good write-up, I needed to read this before going on a family trip this weekend.

I'm probably still what you'd consider a newb at this, but I've learned the better I hold frame and don't give in to her arguments when she explodes or is in a bad mood, and that if I just keep it cool and help bring her back to reality, the quicker she snaps out of it and goes back to her sweet self.

[–]LongRoad_5181 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I found this at the beginning as well... just be aware that it's very likely you'll start entering into a long cycle of increasing shit tests / tantrums / bad moods as your SMV climbs and she attacks the frame you're developing. Distracting (bringing back to reality) sometimes works, but sometimes the best course is to cease verbal intercourse.

[–]tspitsatgp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hmm that’s interesting. I think I am entering this now. Encountering irrational behaviour and mood swings that I haven’t seen in years. The good news is that it’s not from drunk captaining anymore.

[–]captainbourbon501 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Needed this after I blew my frame up in a main event this past weekend. She is shattered now and I am picking up the pieces. My fault. On another note, a friend just returned from Tanzania where she was doing some mental health work. The local word for anxiety there roughly translated to "Too many thoughts"... i.e. the hamster.

[–]simbarlion1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Nice post, I think the TLDR is Don't Be Needy.

And if i break that down in context of this post, there is 1) not being needy, and there is 2) behaving such that you appear to not be needy.

2 is good but 1 is better.

[–]HornsOfApathy[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think there is a certain level of presumed frame here that is "not needy" that most MRPers have found before they get to this stage. I think that MRP needs more focus on these intermediate to advanced stages - where you've established a frame that is strong and masculine but you are unsure of how to use it effectively to create escape.

But yes, don't be needy. And display that behavior that you're not needy. For the audience this post was intended for it's likely already natural.

[–]BostonBrakeJob2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that MRP needs more focus on these intermediate to advanced stages - where you've established a frame that is strong and masculine but you are unsure of how to use it effectively to create escape.

I'm on the otherside of this one. Sure, some note swapping could speed things up. But by the time a dude gets to those "stages" he's realized all the fun is in the journey, not the destination. The trial and error is what drives him forward, not the cheat code.

I think this is why there aren't a whole lot of these kinds of posts. That, and something about kids and dynamite. The advanced nuggets get condensed and spread out in the comments sections, or tucked away in a DM instead.

[–]RPeed1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you answer a question many people didn’t know they had. The cheat codes are all in the comments section of the popular posts.

The only problem is you need to read the side bar, post and comment yourself to read them in any kind of context.

I think that’s why people wont make any progress just lurking.

[–]simbarlion1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I certainly agree there is a strong focus on the early stage issues. This and U/Red-Curious 's post are bringing up the average

[–]WeightsNCheatDates0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Cannot wait to read this.

I remember reading part one and it hit me hard. Everything rang so true and my wife’s attitude and bouts of deperession have lasted exponentially shorter now that I’ve taken responsibility for this. Or determined when it is something that deserves to be ignored

[–]HornsOfApathy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's really all about leading your wife to the next phase of her emotional ocean.

I remember when I first started figuring this out that the shit tests and shitty depressive behavior would last for 3-5 days. Now, those waves of emotions still come, but they are very short lived... a single day at best.

As you learn to move her from her shitty moods into a place of abundance (your frame) she learns too. She learns what it FEELZ like to fall into you, and it's always a better place than where she was before.

Keep on keeping on bro - if you've started to notice the duration being much shorter, it means that you've created a space for her to find comfort and strength, and she is learning that too.

I made this post in an attempt to show what the next stage is when those episodes are getting shorter in duration - likely because you found frame.

[–]FoxShitNasty830 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How do you find balance in caretaking and passing shit tests?

[–]HornsOfApathy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You learn to display emotions in a masculine way, combined with FOGGING and STFU.

Same rules apply for shit tests, but as you advance through MRP the shit tests decrease and often turn into comfort tests.

[–]BluepillProfessor0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link the oak?

[–]HornsOfApathy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that's definitely the first part, step 1 is finding your frame and being the oak is necessary to a MRP relationship.

I think what I'm trying to convey is an understanding of how to use "the oak" portion of your frame (because your frame is much more complex than just a single attribute) to create total frame escape for her and have her wishing for you to invite her into your frame, consistently. Being the oak is important here but it's important to call out that it means a place of zero judgement.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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