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Don't forget to Incentivize

September 12, 2017
66 upvotes

Every several months or so I find myself assessing my direction, my "narrative" (as it's commonly referred to here) and my MAP, looking for things that could use tightening up. This started out as an OYS post after a realization about one area I could improve on but I decided to throw it up on the main sub instead as it got longer. Because it was an OYS post originally I'm going lay out where I have fucked up, where I've done well and what I'll do going forward to improve this.

I was reading posts on our beloved forum yesterday and got sucked into a Jack10 rabbit hole and came across this post about incentivizing others to express desired behavior (your wife is an "other" for clarification).

I think this gets overlooked a lot of the time on MRP due to the "Levels of Dread" being so prominent of a guide when guys are building their MAP. Don't get me wrong, the dread levels are necessary to grasp but they are mostly about improving yourself and implementing a successful strategy as a married man, from that place of improved SMV. This is another key distinction for another post. Men here get caught up with looking for shit tests, having three hobbies, practicing game, removing time and attention to the point where they are missing opportunities to reinforce and reward good qualities and actions of those around them (I've been guilty of this at times). For your wife, this means creating that environment where her feminine nature is encouraged by your masculine leadership and even occasionally, your praise, be it verbal or action based.

I realized I've been somewhat failing to most effectively create that optimal environment to foster feminine energy and flourish from my wife. I've missed opportunities to craft the narrative and lead her to this and will be trying to correct it. It comes down to this for me right now; I need to do better at creating an environment that encourages good, feminine behavior and lead her into my strategy/narrative. This has some similarities with /u/GargantuaBlarg29's recent post on being a good partner and leading her to good behavior through your micro-actions.

How did I fuck this up pre-RP awareness?

If you examine your past (or current actions for the newest here) I guarantee you will find behaviors of yours that supported the FI and stifled your wife's natural feminine nature. Here's mine... I used to be one of these guys who thought he liked girls who were slightly less feminine. Not "butch" but maybe slightly tomboyish and "sporty." You know the type. Waaaay back when we were dating (10+ years ago), I used to even tell my wife that I didn't like all the overly feminine accoutrements like lots of makeup, heels and stuff like that. I would tell her she looks fine the way she was and sometimes even accuse her of overdressing for events. I was absolutely murdering that instinct to be feminine and sexy. What a dipshit, right? Like the majority of men today, I bought into the feminine imperative lies so much I actually believed this. And in turn, she believed this is what I liked in women (and why wouldn't she? It came out of my mouth on more than one occasion). My point is that I wasn't doing myself any favors and I'm now realizing the damage this caused to fostering a comfortable environment for her to truly embrace her feminine nature. Undoing something like this takes time. This dynamic has to be right for you to be able to validate and encourage "desired behavior."

So what have I already done to reset this dynamic?

On a macro scale I did things like, took over handling our finances about a year ago. She's expressed to me how this has reduced the stress in her life (Now the thought of not doing this conjures up images of me being a man-child). I focus on the larger, strategic family decisions of our lives like; buying a new car, planning big vacations, coordinating large home repairs, vehicle maintenance, etc. Thus leaving her room to worry about things like what's for dinner, laundry, what the kids will be wearing to school and her appearance. The things many women naturally (whether they admit or not) are proud of and enjoy doing for their families. I've become more involved, or at least more aware of, what our kid's are doing at school and what they need to be responsible for. My wife still handles most of this as she works part time and only about 5-6 hrs a day when she does, but as part of my "preparing for any outcome" MAP I want to be more engaged and able to pitch in on this should we ever split. It also builds my own reassurance that I do not need her to be happy and successful. The go plan is the stay plan.

I validate her efforts at eating better and exercising daily. About one whole year after I started lifting, that 1,000 foot rope attached to the "fitness raft" tightened. Now she is watching her calories, doing intermittent fasting and exercising five days a week. Once it became noticeable to me, I wrapped her in a big bear hug, ran my hands under her shirt around her waist-line and commented on how she's looking good lately. Women want this validation.

When she gets a haircut, puts on something sexy or gets "whored up" to go out to dinner, I let her know I appreciate it. I want her to keep doing these things after all. Don't confuse these compliments with pussy worshipping. It's a quick ass slap and "that looks good on you." The hovering pussy drier is not the same as incentivizing good behavior. Don't over compliment or give undue praise.

What can I still do better to further this dynamic?

Be overt about what I appreciate from/about her. I already do this to some degree but I need to start rewarding and acknowledging daily things she does like meal prep, laundry and cleaning. This also goes for when she makes an effort to look good physically. We went to a concert together a few weekends ago and she looked sexy. I told her this. I also made sure I was looking good... come on now. Her hands were on my waist and ass all night . She should know that I appreciate her effort.

Consistently reinforce feminine value. I will be cognizant of when she tries to add value to our (my and our kid's) lives and reinforce that behavior. My wife works with children in a medical capacity for her job. She used to have a blog where she would post things related to this career. It didn't get a lot of traction and she lost interest. I'm going to encourage her to do this again because I know she enjoyed it, whether it was monetarily successful or not.

Lead her into the narrative I create. She doesn't always know what I want out of life, out of our marriage, out of sex. This goes hand in hand with not writing covert contracts. She can't possibly get on board with what I want if she has no idea what that is. See Garg29's post for more on this idea. So being overt about some of this, in a non-dictatorial way will also be something I strive for.

My MAP thus far has been very focused on improving myself, getting what I want out of life, removing my time and attention when she acts shitty and crafting my "strategy" to that end. It's become apparent to me that leading her to a place that reinforces all the positives she brings is just as important. Dare I say, I need to lead her to a place where her efforts are appreciated?

This alone won't make you a more valuable man. This comes after you've lifted for a year or more, after you've lived in your frame and created the life you want. Maybe this a "water is wet" post for some but I see it neglected a lot from newer men. Acknowledging this positive behavior from your wife is a small but key part of the MRP process that sometimes gets glossed over. Don't forget to incentivize.

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Post Information
Title Don't forget to Incentivize
Author JDRoedell
Upvotes 66
Comments 26
Date September 12, 2017 1:48 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/dont-forget-to-incentivize.198488
https://theredarchive.com/post/198488
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/6zn1qp/dont_forget_to_incentivize/
Comments

[–]straius 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Timely post. Seen a lot of posts lately where people are getting wrapped up in punishment cycles wondering why things aren't improving.

It's a necessary component, just as dread is, but you can't punish your way to getting what you want. In the end, you need her investment to get what you want and punishment alone (the push to the pull) is only as effective as the strength of the pull.

[–]discobolus_ 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Seen a lot of posts lately where people are getting wrapped up in punishment cycles wondering why things aren't improving.

Interesting how certain things like this tend to show up around here in bunches....

Are certain posts causing over-corrections in mrpers? Like, was there a good post on withdrawing attention recently that had a lot of guys think "He's right, I need to do more of this..." And then a group manage to all fuck it up in similar ways, and come back here with the fallout?

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

At some point, guy's have to stop trying to MRP so hard. They have to use the tools that are given to forge the life they want. I postulate this is a phase a lot of men go through. Similar to the anger phase.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Eventually your "MRPing" will become less of a conscious thought and will morph into who you really are.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Are certain posts causing over-corrections in mrpers?

Sort like a self-perpetuating circular reinforcement? I think that is possible. It just depends on the man, the wife and what stage of reclaiming their life they are in. Those in the later stages will use removal of time and attention to great effect. New guys see that, try to implement it and their wives are all, "ok honey, I'll see you when you get back..." Either this, or the other extreme and it blows up in his face and he doesn't know how to AA, AM, Fog or Broken Record his way around the storm.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, this. If you're in the anger stage, all your anger is wrapped up as part of the withdrawal and the anger also means you're more prone to a punishment track. add on top of that the BP history and there's very little chance you won't swing the pendulum hard to the punishment side as an over correction to your self resentment.

The withdrawal is still an important component and to some degree, you need that pressure or conflict to kickstart a new dynamic, but the mistake I see repeated often is that it gets all the focus as the lever that gets them what they want. But it works in tandem with being a fun person to be around and without that pull, the punishment more often leads to the wife shutting down even further.

It's when they leave the anger phase and become a bit more balanced of an individual again that the real power of withdrawal can take hold because it's not laced with so much butt hurt and their pull with their wives is stronger as well since the anger and frustration and resentment has receded.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This post won’t resonate with MRPs who are still in the anger phase. I agree that this area of MRP strategy becomes more important the further along you are in building your frame, MAP and self-improvement. Thank you for your post. This is where I am at in my RP journey, and I think it is a stage that many on MRP forget about as they become focused solely on their own improvement.

For someone who never went through the BP phase, and is consciously working on keeping it that way, this concept plays heavily into my MAP. My FW is currently a capable and happy First Mate, and one of my goals is to provide the environment and support she needs to continue along that path.

Society does not encourage feminine energy. Women are encouraged to break into (or destroy) the “Boys’ Club” by stifling their feminine energy. In turn, they are always complaining about how stressed, depressed, unhappy, unfulfilled they are.

It is my job as her Captain to encourage FW’s feminine energy. When she looks exceptionally beautiful, I make sure she knows it. When she cooks a delicious meal, I thank her for being such a wonderful cook. When our house looks immaculate, I declare a celebration and we dance around the house. When she comes to me with a problem, I listen and offer my advice as my way of acknowledging her submission. Note that this includes both verbal and non-verbal reinforcement. Your actions and words should both show your appreciation for her feminine energy.

I think a large part of the incentive process is setting and tempering your expectations. Do I expect my FW to lounge around the home and cook and clean in full makeup, hair done, and in a dress and heels? No. Her energy is still feminine even when she is wearing one of my old t shirts and running shorts. It does not benefit me to have a covert contract where my FW should dress up at home because she dresses up for the outside world (here’s looking at you angry posts about specific undergarments). I understand dressing functionally. I still encourage my wife to embrace her love of college football, outdoor activities such as camping and working hard on her career.

Part of encouraging feminine energy is providing your wife with space to relax and decompress. Women need time to unwind and time where nothing is expected of them. I would imagine this is particularly true of women with children, and even more so for SAHM.

I have found that the more I encourage my FW to cultivate her feminine energy, the more she encourages me to cultivate my masculine qualities. She celebrates with me when I have a great game with my rec league. She tells me how thankful she is to have a man who can handle our large yard. She expresses her gratitude for my ability to think on the fly, something she struggles with as someone who is very dependent on routine.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good work man!

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is what it looks like when you have internalized The Way of the Superior Man.

[–]discobolus_ 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Good post.

I've been wondering if there better, more covert ways to reinforce? I mean, part of the RP learning curve is "womanese". Is reinforcing with overt compliments the best way to communicate?

Your move of putting your hands on the improved parts of a more fit wife seems to be an example of this.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Is reinforcing with overt compliments the best way to communicate?

IMO, yes, sometimes overt compliments are called for. But as I allude to regarding the "hovering pussy drier," they should be used sparingly. Too much of it and you sound like a supplicating beta. Covert reinforcement should always be an undercurrent of your actions.

EDIT: a few words left out

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You could link this to the effects of tolerance. You overtly compliment her once, bam hit of serotonin. Overtly compliment her again soon after. Still pretty good hit. Do it again, and now it's "I realize you're being nice but it's not making me feel happy."

Covert compliments however can have an area of effect impact depending on how you reward her. You've covered the topic quite nicely with this post. Everyone reading should be assessing how they can positively reinforce their wife's positive behavior right now.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The diminishing returns of compliments.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

lol, Compliment AoEs. Boom bitch!

[–]thatboyjeff0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Did you really just say AoE? DYEL?

[–]SailorAground0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So if your woman has self-esteem issues and needs a lot more reinforcement, is it better to remain overt or try to have covert signals (more time spent together, buy flowers, etc.)?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Her self esteem issues are HER self esteem issues. It doesn't matter what you do or say, she's going to have to be the one to come around and change her view of herself. That said, she is very good at rationalizing away covert approval early on because of that low self esteem ("He didn't spend more time with me because X, it's just a coincidence / I didn't earn that / I don't deserve that").

In order to lay the groundwork for acceptance, start with overt reinforcement. Like training a dog you need to be alert enough to recognize when she does something you appreciate and immediately praise that. Then if it's something like self improvement (fitness, sports, social) be the leader and open a few doors for her. For example "Let's go for a walk" (fitness) "I'm going to bring the kids to your game on Saturday" (sports) or "I got the kids covered, let's go grab a drink with friends" (social). If you are into the topic too (say, fitness), share your interest by watching sports or fitness videos around her to show it's not just you being interested that she's doing it, you're interested in what she's doing. That helps her self esteem by letting her infer: "Oh he likes watching powerlifting videos, and I've recently gotten into lifting, thus he approves of me."

Take notice of how the reinforcement goes with the thing you're reinforcing. Post sex cuddle and spending the rest of the night with her after sex reinforces hormones caused by sex. Inviting people over for dinner if she's learning to cook reinforces her cooking. Flowers? Man I rarely buy flowers anymore. What the hell do flowers reinforce? That she gardens well? Fuck flowers.

And remember, after your initial overt praise, do not attempt to reinforce what she does ALL the time after every time she does it. Let her do something sometimes and not receive praise. When this happens and she continues anyway, that's her doing it for her and her self esteem. She needs her own inner drive in addition to your leadership and approval to keep the behavior going.

Last but not least, do not double down on praise if she's not responding. Like /u/JDRoedell put it, you'll be a "hovering pussy drier" when it's obvious that she just isn't interested in that area.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

All solid advice. I can't remember the last time I bought flowers.

[–]SailorAground0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. I guess it's like the old adage says: all things in moderation.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Refresh yourself on the section in WOTSM about compliments producing motivation in women. The answer is right there.

[–]discobolus_ 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I will do this - that book probably didn't get my full attention the first time around. Thanks.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's got a softer bit of language to it than the others (and a bit of a "spiritual" bent to it), but in the theme of the post, it serves well to capture the essence of a model of feminine vs. masculine dynamics.

[–]Corleone84Married0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! Great post. As u/V1adimirPoontin said maybe newbies won't get very much from it, I just passed anger phase a couple months ago, and now I want to focus on how to improve not only my individual life but also our family life/reality. This advice is gold. Thanks again

[–]donedreadpirateMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's easy to lose sight of this, specifically in the beginning when you're angry. The opposite of being a nice guy is not being a mean-spirited jerk. The opposite is being a man who knows what he likes and wants, and gives freely to that purpose without any strings attached; no expectations. As long as you are incentivizing because you genuinely like the behavior and want to encourage it, without covert contracts, then by all means, absolutely!

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

gets "whored up" to go out to dinner,

If she puts on so much makeup that she looks and smells like a whore, your original instinct to tell her to back off the makeup was the right thing to do.

Don't forget to incentivize.

Reward her when she deserves it. Ignore the bad behavior and it will partially go away. This is the same thing you do to train a dog.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she puts on so much makeup that she looks and smells like a whore, your original instinct to tell her to back off the makeup was the right thing to do.

It was more of a figure of speech.

"Reward her when she deserves it. Ignore the bad behavior and it will partially go away. This is the same thing you do to train a dog."

"Conditioning" is the name of the game, yes.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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