~ archived since 2018 ~

Female Perspective on RP Transition

December 2, 2014

To the RP men who have gone the LTR route, I implore you to think carefully before you next your partner. Don't forget that while you were sold the feminist agenda, so were we. Most woman who believe in RP philosophy (even when we didn't know it had a name) did not ride the CC and other feminist notions however many of us have gotten used to being our own captains. Either from being single or from our mate's BP days when, we were forced to be captain because our men had forgotten, or never really learned, that he was supposed to be leading the ship.

If she was a RP woman, she stayed with you when you went BP. She didn't cheat on you or trade you in for a better model, because that's not the kind of person she wants to be. She was fighting her hypergamous nature, for you! She tried to figure out why you were both unhappy but nothing really made sense. And then you found TRP.

As you struggle to get the pill down, please remember that this is a struggle for her too. You are asking her to put faith and trust back in you, when you may not have shown her that you can be reliable and trustworthy on a consistent basis yet. If you love her still, even a tiny bit, stand by her as she comes to terms with the changing relationship - just like she stood by you when you didn't even realize you were being BP. I'm not saying forever, but you can't undo 10 years in 2 months. And be prepared for setbacks. Because they will happen. It's just life.

Maintain frame. Be her calm, rational and strong oak. Stronger even than she is. And this may take more strength than the average guy, because these women, the ones who had the courage and strength not to succumb to the CC, who didn't allow their instincts for hypergamy to override their love for you when you were being BP, these are strong women. And you are going to have to be that much stronger to regain their trust. But when you do, there won't be anything the two of you wont be able to get through.

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Post Information
Title Female Perspective on RP Transition
Author LeggyBlueEyes
Upvotes 50
Comments 14
Date December 2, 2014 12:49 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/female-perspective-on-rp-transition.202862
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/2nzvqz/female_perspective_on_rp_transition/

[–]ArchwingerMarried- MRP MODERATOR20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The big picture for a marriage or serious relationship isn’t all that different from the small picture of getting some girl you just met to have sex with you.

I think it was Rollo who coined the phrase, “You can’t negotiate desire.” A guy who wants to have sex with a woman can’t fight, beg, or negotiate her into having sex with him. Athol coined the next concept: Sure, she could make herself have sex with him, but she can’t make herself want to. The only person who can make that woman want to have sex with that man is the man. And he doesn’t do it by fighting her over it. He does it by fighting himself. By becoming a man women actually want to have sex with.

This same concept applies to being the leader of your family, or of your relationship. You can’t fight, beg, or negotiate your woman into submission, trust, or handing you the reins of her life, and especially not the lives of her children. It’s not a battle. You’re not trying to push her, break her, or manipulate her until she gives up and gives in to you. You’re trying to push, break, and manipulate yourself. Your job isn’t to beat her into submission, until she does what you want. Your job is to become someone she wants to submit to. Somebody worthy of her trust and of leading her family.

Our wives and girlfriends aren’t our adversaries or our enemies. Deep down, they want us to win. They crave it. But you don’t win by beating them. Nor do you win by qualifying yourself to them and trying to prove your worth. You win by qualifying yourself to you. Taking charge of your own life and becoming a man worth a shit. A man women want to follow.

Your job isn’t to make her do what you want. It’s to make her want what you want.

[–]LeggyBlueEyesReal Good Woman[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for this. It helps me not beat myself up over my LTR ending because I was "fucking disobedient" and wouldn't shut up when told.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just don't let it help you so much that you are just as (or even more) 'fucking disobedient' and won't shut up in your next relationship. This forum is about self improvement- how to be a better spouse for men and women. You need to own your role in the prior breakup, learn from that, and improve from there.

[–]LeggyBlueEyesReal Good Woman[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I own my mistakes. Don't get me wrong. I was not nor claim to have been perfect. Unfortunately this turbulence, while new for me in this relationship, is almost verbatim what he described with his ex. I have only wanted him see the pattern so he can change it and have what he says he wants. Despite it all, I want him to find the happiness he's seeking.

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't make anyone see they need to change by telling them. The only way they will change is if they want to.

[–]nopbeentheredonethatMarried9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

One of the thing that I think we do not talk enough, is how much our wife are also miserable with us. Once you have found back your old self again it is important to actually "hire" your wife as your first mate.

When you hire somebody you don't do it covertly. You clearly state what you want, yours expectations, and what are your responsibility. By having your wife fully on-board with you she will be able to help you deal with issue that will come from your past.

When you are in an older marriage (10 years+) and thing have been hard and not so great for so long, it does leave a mark on you and on her. Yes life will be better on the surface by changing the power dynamic and getting back the lost attraction. But all the crap from the past WILL linger in our subconscious and it will mess with us from time to time. Doubt and regret from the past and fear about the future will cause us to question our commitment.

In those moment of doubt, this is why, in my opinion, it is so important to take the time to live those emotion and look for support from our wife/husband. They will help us put thing in perspective. Yes our doubt will affect our SO but they need to be out there and dealt with swiftly. It's not easy but it is for me the only way to remain true and to move forward.

Remember guy's that a marriage is a team effort, YOU and YOUR wife is an integral part of it. Yes you can do most of the work on your own and thing will get better. But when the past will come back to bite you you will need that support from your SO.

[–]LeggyBlueEyesReal Good Woman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good perspective, thanks!

[–]strategos_autokratorMan, Married, Mod2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for this reminder. I'm going through this now, and it is hard for me because I want to rush things, and the truth is I can't rush her, because that is losing frame, it is making my actions depend on her changes. That is not what captains do.

As someone else said here, the First Office is running the boat because the captain was drunk on the floor. Just because the Captain claims to have taken a sober pill now, it will take time for the FO to accept the captain is responsible again for the boat. Even if the captain is sober now, he might still be hung-over. So if there is difficulty in the transition, remember it isn't the FO's fault, it is the fact that they do care about the boat, and it will take a lot of time for the Captain to regain the trust because HE fucked it up so bad. It isn't she thinks this is her boat, it is that she doesn't want you to do something drunk stupid with it because it has an effect on everyone else, and that is scary. The captain must be the source of vision and discipline of the ship. The best way to be the captain isn't to fight to get the control back, but to show how the Captain's frame is so strong that all the officers and crew will want to listen because they feel safer with you. This takes time.

[–]LeggyBlueEyesReal Good Woman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the comment. It helps a lot.

[–]mshecubis3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem with feminism isn't that it teaches women to be strong and independent, the problem is that it teaches men that it's ok, even desirable to be weak. The reality is that men need to to step up their game to be worthy

[–]legitworkaccount2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's really easy to get drunk off the "put your needs first" mentality that RP tries to teach betas. Your post was very sobering.

something something moderation.

[–]LeggyBlueEyesReal Good Woman[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's amazing how moderation is key in so many things! Thanks for the comment.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I appreciate the spirit of what you are saying here, and for that you got my upvote, but there are a few things that need mentioning in this forum.

...think carefully before you next your partner...while you were sold the feminist agenda, so were we

This is absolutely true, an excellent point to remember, and perhaps where the scope of the post should have remained. My wife has definitely responded to my transition in a confused but optimistic way. She's admitted that this is what she wants, despite her programming.

...we were forced to be captain...

Careful, here. Not having a captain is not the same as being your own.

If she was a RP woman...

This is where I groaned into my morning coffee. This is a huge, monster, if, because simply put, most women are not RP (just like most men aren't). Instead, as "BP" women, they nagged us for blue pill traits and then neglected to pay attention to any of our needs - a lot of conversation, not a lot of action. The whole situation ensues that we're now all so familiar with.

...she stayed with you when you went BP...

Of course she stayed - she had a guy earning a ton of money, providing the house and car and kids and trips and maintenance and security and dirty jobs and tough jobs and and and - that she said she wanted. She told herself she loved me, but the reality is she loved the idea of me and the things I provided. Huge, huge difference. She didn't stay with me, she stayed with that. She didn't put herself out there sexually to someone else, and who knows what would have happened if someone seriously pursued her. I (we) got lucky that nobody ever did.

She didn't cheat on you or trade you in for a better model, because that's not the kind of person she wants to be.

True, but again, I see myself (and many other "nice guys") working hard to give her everything she wanted. I don't see much of the same effort from her (or the other examples I've seen in my life).

You are asking her to put faith and trust back in you, when you may not have shown her that you can be reliable and trustworthy on a consistent basis yet.

Okay, back up the truck. Don't be so quick to correlate BP with a worthless piece of shit. Being BP doesn't mean you are not talented, responsible, successful, good looking, in shape. As a man, you can be all of these things, and still have a miserable blue pill relationship. That's why this hurts so much and why this is so hard. She may even know she's out of control - she often can't help it. Other times she may not even care. If you ask my wife, she will tell you that she was perfectly happy in the first several years of our marriage, if perhaps bored with me and understimulated. I, on the otherhand, was very unsatisfied.

Be her calm, rational and strong oak. Stronger even than she is.

I'm dying on the inside here. If, as an RP man, there is any question whether you are emotionally stronger than your wife, then you have failed completely. Full stop. The reason why the man needs to do this is because women generally are not capable of it. I'm looking at you OP. If you were capable of being the oak in your household, there would be no need for your hubby to do so. This is more than just being able to maintain control of your own emotions. This is being able to weather and stabilize the emotions of everyone else in the house.

I don't see overriding hypergamy as strength. I see it more as complacency. Maybe in some cases, where the opportunity is laid in her lap, and her response is, "I feel myself being attracted, but I am resisting the urge because I want to do what is right for my marriage", I could be convinced of strength.

Now, let me be clear that I know my fair share of crappy husbands - guys who I can't imagine how they got their wives to fall for them. I've also met some wonderful women who deserved far better than the jackasses they were married to. That's not what any of this is about. Bad men are bad men, whether they are RP or not.

MRP is about good men being given a BP formula by society and mentors with the expectation that if they do these things, they will have a satisfying marriage/relationship, only to wake up one day and find yourself being miserable with your home life. These same men then go to their wives to find out what they want, try to do what they want, and continue to fail, because these women only think they know what they want. In essence, they are deluding themselves and their husbands. That is a BP relationship, woman and man. RP enlightenment means that the man must realize that he can't take what she says at face value. He must do what she and society has said he should not, and in the end she and he will both be happier for it. Not every guy is up to this. Neither is every woman.

OP, unfortunately, I do not believe you have fully come to terms with this.

[–]LeggyBlueEyesReal Good Woman[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know how to quote back to you but I will try to address a few points. I didn't need my husband for any financial security. So that was not a reason for me to stay. We have equivalent salaries.

I did have the opportunity to have sex with men I was attracted to. I chose not too.

I am actually in control of my emotions far more often than most women I know, and truth be told, more often than my ex husband. That was probably our biggest problem.

He convinced me to let go of myself and be more emotional, and I did because, being a woman, I naturally craved a captain. Only later did he realize he didn't like it when I became too emotional. But it can be hard to put that genie back in the bottle. But that is my priority one now that I'm single again. I have to get back to the person I was, who was in control of her emotions.

I asked him for alpha traits, not beta traits, for years. I asked him to go back to the man I dated. I asked him to behave that way. But his feminist upbringing told him that was only how you dated a woman, not how you kept her.

Loyalty does not always equal complacency. It can, but it doesn't have to.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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