Our Father, Who Art Red-Pilled, Brodin Be Thy Name, Thine Shit Be Owned.
The weekly OYS post has been, by far, the highest-value activity I've started since coming here.
Just the ritual of sitting down, taking stock, and getting feedback - even if nothing particularly major happened that week - is incredibly useful.
I wanted to thank everyone who regularly comments there. I am challenged every week by the things that regular men - men with jobs, families, lives - take the time to post. It makes a difference.
[Last week I was in a real tail-spin] (https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/6ctdv9/own_your_shit_weekly_may_23_2017/dhxtn6m/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=front&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=marriedredpill), thrown off by some pretty rough sexual rejections, then my wife bringing up her ex (and the subsequent downward spiral of comparison I indulged in).
I was feeling depressed, down on the marriage, frustrated, angry, bitter - all the typical shit. I was, at the very least, AWARE of why I was feeling these things, a big step forward from my bluepill self. Still, I was having a tough time managing those emotions. I made sure to vomit that into my OYS post.
The comments I got were varied in their takes, but almost all illuminated something I hadn't thought of. I'm going to try and distill a few of the lessons I learned here, in order to internalize them better.
I hope these lessons are general enough that they can be of help to guys who are still working the process, not quite new, but not where they want to be yet, either.
1.) Can't Escape The Anger Phase? You Haven't Really Swallowed The Pill.
"I get it..." No you don't. Not as much as you think you do. You are stuck between the two dichotomies. How you think it should be (the unfairness) and how it really is.
Hence...cognitive dissonance. You will never move further until you get beyond her past. Everyone has one. There's little you can do about it. So why let it bug you? Hypergamy is selfish, brother. There's only one way to combat it. - /u/ReddJive
I think the term "anger phase" is a bit misleading. I get the comparison to the "stages of grief," but phase makes it sound like a point of chronology, something you move through automatically as you progress.
This isn't necessarily the case, though. The anger (at least in my case) is directly connected to the active destruction of my blue pill fantasy life. That destruction comes directly from trying to swallow the red pill.
The fact is, I can intellectually talk RP, but I haven't fully accepted it. And most days, it doesn't matter - I can lift, game my wife, try to pass shit tests, etc, without a deep and abiding understanding of inter-sexual dynamics. After all, "trying to fix my marriage" and "trying to fix myself as a man, regardless of what happens with my marriage" have almost identical curricula.
When something comes up that reveals the gap between the blue pill fantasy and reality, however, the difference between understanding and accepting is thrown into sharp relief. When my wife brings up and is clearly thinking about her (shitty, abusive, garbagsecye) ex, my blue pill self reacts with righteous indignance - "How DARE she? I've been doing so much WORK! She MUST be a low value woman!"
I am reacting in this instance like she is changing the rules - we are all supposed to live a certain way, the blue-pill way; she's supposed to fuck me, I'm supposed to be happy, she's supposed to be attracted to these things and not those things. I'm attempting to control her, and becoming upset that she isn't controllable.
All of that is a foundation built on fear, insecurity, and a fundamental misjudgement of how the world works.
Meanwhile, RP me just shrugs his shoulders, thinks "AWALT," makes a joke, and fucks his wife a bit more dominantly when he gets home.
Swallow the pill - really swallow it - and the anger will dissipate.
2.) Your wife isn't attracted to "assholes" - she's attracted to FRAME.
Dude, she doesn't want a terrible person; she left him for you. She desires a man with frame, who imposes that frame on her. Find your frame, and your balls to impose it! - /u/man_in_the_world
You and dirty_pr are missing the forest for the trees. It is not necessary that you become a psychopathic asshole shitbird. It is necessary that you become your sole point of origin (aka FRAME). This means giving zero fucks about her past, present, of future. This means deciding your course, executing; and not worrying what she thinks about it. - /u/Persaeus
I was getting extremely torn up (in the butt-area) about my wife bringing up her ex. He was the guy right before me, was "alpha" in many of the ways I am not, but was also a demonstrably shitty person.
In my mind, then, this led to the reasoning:
a.) terrible people apparently have sexual success with my wife; 2.) I am not that person, nor am I willing to become that person, therefore 3.) I am fucked.
This, besides being self-pitying, was highly judgmental on my part. Obviously, you can't control who you're attracted to. It's not productive to blame my wife for who she fucked in the past.
What's more, though, I was framing this incorrectly, focusing on the fact that she fucked this guy, rather than on the fact that she left this guy, hates his guts, and married me. It's like winning the tournament, but getting hung up on the fact that I lost a match or two along the way.
Now, yes - admittedly, I won this genetic tournament through a BB strategy, one which has had side effects I'm not particularly happy with. But I've fucked my wife alot more than this guy ever will, and besides - the past doesn't exist. It's gone.
The self-pity line of thinking also misses the forest for the trees. The lesson isn't "My wife loves shitty dudes." The lesson is "My wife responds to a strong frame, so much so that she'll even stay with a shitty dude, as long as he holds frame."
My wife is a very strong personality. She's been on her own for a long time, never knew her biological father, hated her abusive step-father. She left home in high school and never looked back. She's worked her way up, learned to do everything herself, and has had to fight for everything she has. I respect the hell out of her for that.
Because of that history, I always thought she was a dominant personality. But I no longer think so. I think my wife has a very strong submissive side - but she sure as hell is not going to reveal that side to just anyone.
She's been hurt by authority figures all her life; she's learned the hard lesson that she can't trust the people who are supposed to take care of her. To open up and allow herself to be vulnerable, she needs to know - not just think, but know - that I not only am capable of taking care of her, but that I have her best interest at heart.
She's seeking a strong frame. And while I was willing to prostrate myself at her feet and provide literally unlimited amounts of relationship comfort, I didn't demonstrate that I had the inner strength to protect her. I fundamentally misunderstood the question she was asking, and nearly all of her relationship troubles stem from that fact.
3.) Focus on Progress, not on End Result.
Unfair is the kid born in Chad Africa. Fuck your unfairness. Also, your physique is so skinny fatty meh - /u/weakandsensitive
Patience! You're not anywhere close to the man you can and intend to be. With your super-butler BB anti-frame and your dadbod, you're not yet anyone's type; there's no greener pasture out there for you yet, and I suspect that yours will green up nicely when you're worthy of a green one. - /u/man_in_the_world
I've noticed a pattern in how I feel about my own progress in MRP - I'll work hard, start to get some validation, feel good, and then...something will burst the balloon. A comment, a bad day, whatever - then I get frustrated, sad, depressed, etc.
Of course, as the comment above points out - this is whining, pure and simple. Beyond that, I'm getting frustrated because I'm comparing where I want to be to where I am, and that's not productive.
The fact is, I'm not in great shape yet. Sure, I'm better than I was, but I'm hardly Dick Hardbody (Chad's cousin) yet. I still fuck up, still lose frame, still dress like shit sometimes. I shouldn't get up my own ass on the one day an ab shows up, parading around the house while "casually" lifting up my shirt in the one very particular way that reveals my lonely, single ab.
That doesn't mean I need to wallow in frustration, however...because things are improving. It's far more useful (and motivational) to keep track of where I started.
When I first came to MRP, I:
- hadn't had sex in a year in a half
- wife was depressed and having massive trouble taking care of the kids
- got almost no physical affection from my wife
- was 15 pounds overweight
- weakest I'd ever been
- almost never saw friends
- hadn't done anything creative in nearly a year
- was buying clothes specifically to hide my love handles
As of today, I am:
- having sex about once a week
- wife massively stepped up, doing much better with the kids, moods much improved
- much more casual physical affection/hugs/etc
- Hit my target weight, eating better than I ever have, slowly adding muscle
- Hitting personal bests every single week, lifting 4x/week
- Seeing friends regularly, becoming the guy who gets everyone out and re-establishes connections
- Hitting a creative stride, producing more than I have in years, big events coming up
- Clothes fit better than ever, dressing better, exploring personal style, grooming game on point
In every way, my life and marriage are better. If you had told me 6 months ago that I would be where I am, I would have laughed.
The goal is not to be complacent, but also not to abandon what's working just because I can't go from zero to hero quickly enough. There's always more shit to work on, always a struggle, always stress and challenge....because that's what makes you grow.
Nothing worthwhile is easy. Nothing worthwhile comes quickly.
4.) Don't Avoid The Hard Shit.
If he is a loser, a piece of shit, is that an objective one? Or is this you pissed that someone who didn't spin his wheels in the sand, driving in the wrong direction got to enjoy the trip to Disneyland, meanwhile you're stick in Delaware?
You know what she's into, you know what gets her off, but you refuse to go there. Consider your ego wants to defend your life choices, more than it wants you to be happy, driving down to disneyland instead. - /u/stomepimpletilists
Make a list of all the household tasks that you do, and identify the ones that you really think that your wife should be doing instead. Of those, identify the ones that you could simply refuse to do without causing undue harm to you or your children (for example, ones that mostly benefit her, or are nice but not essential). These ones represent enforcable boundaries that you can impose without your wife's consent. Pick one of these, and tell her that you're no longer going to do that one. Hold your new boundary and hold your frame, and see what happens. - /u/man_in_the_world
do this https://www.reddit.com/user/resolutions316, this is all the drama you need for awhile. your relationship has plenty of natural drama setting boundaries; and establishing you as a captain. - /u/Persaeus
If you look where I've made the most progress - lifting, dress, grooming, initiating, etc - these were all relatively challenging areas for me to grow into.
The areas where I've had the least success - specifically, holding frame, assertiveness and direct conflict with my wife - are extremely challenging areas for me.
While I've made some progress on the hard stuff, if I'm 100% owning my shit? I've worked on those things less. Because they're harder, and the payoff for success is less immediate (Initiating well gets me sex. Holding frame against my wife might lead to sex at some point, but it mostly just makes the house tense).
I think I had so little frame when I started MRP that ANY gains felt massive. Starting from 1 and getting to 10 is a 10x improvement - and the effect can be massive.
But if that 10 is out of 100, you can't stop there - you need to keep pushing. And if I'm being honest, I've avoided the hard work that takes, in favor of easier gains elsewhere.
If you have not checked out "Slaying The Dragon Within Us" by Jordan Peterson, I highly recommend you take 15 minutes to watch it now.
Here's the summary: Whatever scares you most - whatever you feel the urge to avoid, because it's uncomfortable, or hard, or painful - THAT'S what you need to be working on right now.
The fear, the difficulty, all that is life telling you: "Here is the challenge you need. Here is what will force you to grow. Here is what will give you the skills you most need to live fully.”
The discomfort is a feature, not a bug. Lean into it.
5.) Read the sidebar? Re-read the goddamn sidebar.
You aren't going to like my response, because you probably think you have done it already.
I was having trouble with some things that I PM'ed u/UEMcGill about. His suggestion to re-read WISNIFG has been of tremendous help to me. The book WISNIFG really addresses approval seeking. What I missed the first time I read it, was the beginning chapters that outline the reasons for the way things are done. I missed the most basic meanings of the book, looking for very specific ways to assert myself. - /u/FireTempered
I read the sidebar when I first joined up here, but I hadn’t revisited anything from there.
After this comment I went back to WISIFG, which was not a personal favorite of mine the first time around. And just like Fire Tempered predicted, a lot of it hit me right in the fucking face.
“The right to be the final judge of yourself is the prime assertive right which allows no one to manipulate you. It is the assertive right from which your other assertive rights are derived. Your other assertive rights are only more specific everyday applications of this prime right.” - WISNIFG
Being your own judge is a simple enough concept, and it’s referenced on here so often it’d almost become non-sensical to me. “I’m my own judge - got it, yup, no problem.” But what does that actually mean?
The repercussions of being your own judge are,in actuality, profound - you no longer allow others to tell you you “should” do something…and, in turn, you let go of the ability to tell others they “should” do anything.
Your wife doesn’t have to have sex with you - she isn’t breaking some rule, if it wasn’t explicitly stated or agreed to up front. YOU aren’t your wife’s judge - SHE is. This is why getting butt hurt after sexual rejections is emotionally manipulative - you’re guilting your wife into having sex with you, hoping the guilt she thinks she’ll feel after turning you down is worse than the prospect of just fucking you and getting it over with. And lo, many a starfish is born.
Before I re-visited WISNIFG, I was thinking about posting on here, asking for advice or examples of how RP guys divide up their household chores with their stay at home wives. How often should I do the dishes? Am I doing too much? Is it unbalanced?
But of course, it doesn’t HAVE to be balanced at all. It doesn’t have to be anything. I can earn all the money AND do all the chores, if that’s what makes me happy. I can do anything. There are no rules, no “shoulds”, no gods, no masters - only actions, and consequences.
The goal is to pursue a set up that makes both my wife and I happy. If we can’t do that, we’ll deal with that conflict - either by splitting up, or by compromising if we think the marriage is of higher value than what we lose through compromise.
I don’t have to ask the internet for a guide - I just need to be assertive in asking for what I need, and be honest and open about the conflict that ensues.
All of this was like a lightbulb going off - and I’d read this book already. Hell, I had all these passages ALREADY HIGHLIGHTED. Obviously, I thought they were important the first time…but in the avalanche of MRP posts, manosphere blogs, and other books I’d just forgotten it.
There’s a lot of material aimed at new guys here, which makes absolute sense. Hopefully these lessons are helpful to guys who are a bit further along, but still not where they want to be.