How did I screw up a pretty decent woman during 12 years of validation addiction AKA I solved my train wreck.

March 22, 2016
16 upvotes

TL;DR: in this post I describe how did I started, fucked up, finished and fucked up again during my marriage in the times of my validation addiction.

Hi,

I realized serious shit last Friday. This is my confession.

There could be more, but I'll keep it MRP-related

I decided to marry her because she was pregnant.

Before I got her pregnant, I cheated on her various times. Few times I confessed that to her, few times she found out. She was mad, pissed, suffering, etc, we parted our ways for some time, but she always forgave me and allowed me to take her back.

During my marriage I abused food and alcohol (I did that before marriage too). I was overweight, I had hepatic steatosis. I treated her like shit. We fought numerous times. I called her names multiple times, I berated her heavily. There were some situations where I used physical violence, sometimes in self-defense, sometimes as a retaliation, sometimes not (I remember never attacking her first, if that counts).

I wrote I abused alcohol, but those situations actually happened while I was sober. I remember that one day when I took a shot of vodka, felt a bit drowsy and thought "my god, why can't I feel like that without alcohol".

She says that during that time she tried to be a decent woman and I believe her. She says, she always wanted to do something that would affect my behavior and make me love her. She did a lot of good stuff during our first 4 years of marriage. My better behavior never came.

Enter therapy

November 2010 I gave up alcohol without any problems, except that I started eating and overworking like crazy. In March 2011 I started therapy for addicts.

My wife never believed that I was alcoholic. I was a high functioning alcoholic and I thought that this is why she did not believe it. But, today, I understand why. She said:

You stopped drinking, but your behavior did not change.

During therapy I did a lot of things that lowered my SMV, especially:

  • stopped attending parties,
  • had problems being funny,
  • had a lot of extremely negative thinking,
  • started saying "sorry" for my past behavior which made her even more mad,
  • started giving her a lot of gifts and money as a way to say "sorry", which made her more disrespectful,
  • started being emotional, talking about my feelings, sometimes crying in front of her or during movies,

During therapy I heard often that many marriages don't survive situations when an addicts stops abusing. Today I understand, why, because I did almost everything wrong. The only good thing, I always kept frame about being alcohol free - and believe me, she shit-tested me about this very often ("I'd rather like you to stand on the street corner and drink with those hobos than attend those fucking alcoholics anonymous meetings!" - by the way, she never attended one of those).

For any addicts during therapy - if you're in an LTR I'd suggest KEEP IT TOTALLY SECRET, because this will probably hurt your social status. If you don't give a fuck about it (I did not) - keep it secret for the sake of your LTR!!

I'm actually thinking about writing a pamphlet for addicts "How to nuke your marriage during therapy". Believe me, it is needed. Statistics are terrible.

In Jun 2012 she looked up her ex-bf on FB and started talking to him. She meet him secretly few times. IDK if sex was involved (she says not).

In Jan 2013 she filed divorce.

At this point as I was aware about that ex-bf thing, I decided I want to separate finances. I talked her into an agreement before divorce that we separate financially.

When I had that agreement, I opened up my cards, I told her what I know and that she somehow went south and I will give her another chance.

Enter betamax

A poor beta's saving marriage checklist:

Bubble-bath with scented candles? Check.

A lot of gifts for valentines? Check.

Taking care she orgasms every time? Check.

She met that ex-bf (maybe not so ex now) a few times more.

In March 2014, she called me "shit" when I got my traffic ticket. I checked her computer. Saw her not-so-ex-bf replying "everything's fine". I found "Shrink for men" the same day or a few days after. I found TheRedPill subreddit some time later, perhaps some links in comments.

I moved her stuff to another room and filled divorce.

Enter faux alpha

I bought gaming consoles, DJ equipment, started gym, started reading, started dancing lessons. I played jungle music on a few parties, I went on a date with a girl. I read a lot of red pill material by then.

Eventually she bought into my "faux alpha" persona, we had sex, I impregnated her for the 3rd time.

I backed out the divorce papers and started looking for a bigger flat.

But that did not feel right to me.

In Jan 2015 I started working in a new place. I looked better than ever.

I wanted a revenge.

Revenge on my wife for not validating me.

I saw that girl at my work some day in Feb 2015. Great hair, juicy tits, 8 yrs younger than my wife. For the first time in my life I felt ready, I looked good, I was in pretty decent shape, I had good clothes, good perfumes. I approached a girl that I normally would not approach in my "beta years". We kissed. My wife was 9 months pregnant by that time.

When my wife was at home with our 4-month old son in Jul 2015, I took her stuff out of my room again, moved her to another. I did not fuck that other girl by that time, but I guess this must have crossed my mind more than few times.

During that time I did not acted like a proper husband. I picked up girls, I flirted, I ignored household chores.

Validation addiction

I was mad at my wife. For calling me shit. For contacting her ex-bf.

I was mad at her for not validating me.

Today I understand, that I looked at her like an morphine addict looks at an empty syringe.

She stopped validating me some day.

I needed that fix, badly.

I berated her, but this did not work. Or, maybe it did work, but I did not want to see anything good coming from her.

In Jul 2015, after getting her stuff out of our room, I told her to fill the divorce papers (3rd time in our career). She did.

I repeat, I ignored household chores by that time. She was on her own. I only brought money.

I gave it some time. I wanted her to beg me for forgiveness. I wanted her to show me her appreciation for me.

I wanted my fix, while she was breast-feeding our 4-month old son.

I gave it some time, she did not contact me overtly in any ways. I wanted an overt submission. I did not get it.

In Oct 2015 I told my wife, that my exclusivity for her is over. Next day, I asked that technician for her phone no. Sex was great.

In Nov 2015, after having sex with my mistress for 2 or 3 times, I felt lighter. My anger was gone. I started talking with my wife normally.

... but I did not stop fucking that other girl! She felt better and she gave me as much attention and sexual appreciation as I needed. My wife some day started pushing me about it and I told her; there were no way I left any trails that would be useful to the court. Sex was restarted that day (even if it worked, I advise AGAINST dread level 11-12).

Enter divorce

In Dec 2015 I divorced. I got no-fault. I felt great, because the threat of my wife suing my ass either for infidelity or for bad treatment and being an alcoholic-post-therapy was gone. I stopped fucking that other girl. I did not need her any more.

After divorce I approached my ex-wife and started talking to her. This was right after I read WISNIFG and re-read NMMNG. I felt lighter. I told her that I would like us to work on our relationship. And well, we did. I decided to stop working away from my home town and she was glad about it. Sex was good.

Until that day, when there was a sexual situation between us two in a hot tub and I was not actually happy about her technique while giving me a BJ and she saw that I'm not and... she smacked my head with an open hand, strongly (my 'real' head, not the head of my dick). She hit me.

Next day I fucked the technician in my car.

On New Year's Eve, another woman from my work called and told me, that while since Jan 2016 I won't be their contractor, maybe we should grab that coffee some day. And well, we did. I did not fuck her, but still had my time.

Few days before that date, I started being lethargic. I started berating my now ex-wife again. I slept. I did not came out of my room to sing her "happy birthday" with my ex-in-laws. I told my ex-wife that we will never be together and that she should go fuck herself.

And well, she did. The day I went on a date with that second woman, my ex-wife found some guy over FB, who came to our town and fucked her the next day.

I remember long long time before that, maybe in Oct 2015, that one of you guys commenting on my victim pukes wrote, that he hopes, that a whole football team is going to fuck my wife because I'm a weaksauce pussy. Well, this was not the whole team and I'm not sure if that guy plays football, but that was pretty intuitive, thanks.

I'm adding that link to my posts from that time so you can see how a blind validation-addicted guy posts look like: https://www.reddit.com/user/throwaway783487387/submitted/ . If anyone wants to use me as a material for some study, feel free to PM me.

Epilogue

Few days after that happened, I realized that fucking other girls in cars and motels is not the best I can do. I approached my wife, sleeping in bed, and told her that I made up my mind and I am ready to work on our marriage again. She told me she fucked that guy, I told her what I did. I actually felt a relief - for the whole time I thought she fucked that ex-bf FB guy in 2012-2014. There was almost every single one of the TRP truth involved. I was not too surprised.

We had sex for the next few days, we barely left the bed. I had my "validation fix".

We decided to go on winter holidays with our kids. We decided to start honestly. We share our phone passwords now. Well, I was honest, what the heck. And she? She was honest too.

Except that now she was hiding the fact she looked up that other guy constantly over FB.

Honeymoon

We had some cool dates during that period from Feb to Mar 2016. We had some good sex. We went with the kids on that holidays and that was cool. It was nice.

That other guy was silent for about a month and called her a week ago. She told him that she won't meet him. Next day she called him to tell him why - because she came back to me and we're cool now. He told her his opinion on my behavior which went something along the lines "and why would your ex-husband be better to you this time? because wtf, he was visited by the Holy Spirit?" and she had a realization about her situation.

Then, she gave me a nuclear shit-test that I did not pass.

Then, she told me she wants us to stop being exclusive. Then she called that guy and told him she wants to meet him again. She told me earlier that she would meet him only for sex, because "he's not the type of guy who will commit" (does that ring a bell, guys? Objectively I may be better than this guy, I may be a situational alpha, but subjectively, PERCEIVED SMV of me by my wife is NEGATIVE today)

Whatever. From some perspective, in fact, we stopped being exclusive around 2011.

I realized I fucked up. I became silent but that was too late. When she changed her phone password and told me she wants to do everything she likes, even meeting that guy again, I felt extremely uneasy again.

My hatred towards her came back, just as my will to check her phone and throw a fit.

On the other hand I knew, that I lost by that time and behaving like that would be no way a reasonable idea. I would make things much, much worse.

I had a very hard day. I realized I can't be in this relationship any more because I don't like where it went. On the other hand, I lead this relationship there! She mirrored things that I did. Who was I to tell her she can't?

Realization

Then I realized.

This was not love. This was addiction.

Why did I want to check her phone? If she does not talk with that guy - this means I am okay! If she does - I can read their messages and still feel superior and in control! If she does talk with him, I could take her back!! And show my superiority!!!

This was my thinking.

Unfortunately, this thinking does not show any relation to her.

And I am not sure if I want have any relationship with her now. I'm not sure if I find her attractive. I'm not sure if I ever loved her, or was she only my validation addiction enabler.

I realized I MUST ABSTAIN from such behavior.

This is so powerful, that I started shaking nervously again when re-reading this post.

I realized, that for the 12 yrs, each and every time I was mad at her, she was like that empty syringe for a morphine addict. This is why I was mad at her! I wanted to get my fix, but she was not able to validate me any more as I expressed enough shitty behavior towards her!

I suddenly felt free.

I am still feeling compelled to check her phone or her computer. I know that this behavior won't bring anything good into my life.

I realized that I am not sure if I ever loved her. We don't have any common rituals, we share hardly ever any interests. We don't meet our friends. We live separate lives for a very long time.

I realized that I need to move. This is not a sensible option for me to live with a woman that I hate for the past 12 yrs.

On the other hand, I changed my behavior totally. I started expressing real LOVE towards her and towards my kids, just like that. Things started to be easy for me again.

I believe that there is still hope for my family. As /u/irateMD wrote, if I improve, I will lead her. We may not be together, but our relationship will improve.

How to cure an addiction? You don't. You replace an addiction with something else. What I replace my validation addiction with? With HAVING AN AWESOME LIFE, with a lot of social stuff, with caring about my house, about my kids, about my ex-wife.

Finally I am sober and I have all the stuff, all the tools I need. All the books I can read, and all you guys here. Unless mods ban me again.

As for my ex-wife, I love this woman as a mother of my children and I decide I want to care about her and I want to protect her. I'm never ever getting re-married again. I'm never ever getting involved in any woman's private stuff (like checking texts or FB), because I'm too awesome for that, this will not build my muscle mass, this will not lover my BF.

Funny thing is, that during all those hard times of thinking and disconnecting from my validation I kept my diet and gym habits. Somehow I feel not only my mind got upgraded, my body is going to be fixed too.

And, what's the most important thing for me recently, somewhere along the lines, I understood that being an ALPHA is not being a rude idiot. Thus, my social relationships at the gym improved. I say "hello" differently and people react more positively to me.

Time for the next episode

Time for the next chapter - no more faux-alpha, enter the real ex_addict_bro.

I feel I got all the things in my head in order this time.

I'm loving towards my kids and towards my ex-wife. I'm owning my shit. I'm taking care about housing, renovation, stuff. Money and work in order. Social life - working on it.

I'm giving it 5 months of hard core red improvement. Now I - suddenly, somehow - FEEL what it should look like. And there will be no baby-sitting of my ex-wife, no handling of her emotions. If she has any codependency issues, that's on her. She did not do anything about this earlier. She's not my mother. I'm not her father. No unconditional love here.

As for my ex-wife and her potential new relationships - I honestly DGAF. Why? Because she honestly told me she ends her exclusivity and she's a grown up human being! She's a woman and she acts like a woman should, she berated me when I was a shitty beta, she started respecting me when I started to man up. Also - obvious - no amounts of mate guarding are going to help me now! Also, we're not together, that's what she wanted! Also... I am honest with you here - I don't know if I love her, I don't know if I ever find my wife attractive. She was a very good, very decent woman. I owe my improvement to her. Paradoxically, she made me a better man and everything happened in proper order. But the truth is I don't need her. I will have a good relationship with her anyway as a mother of my children. BUT - I'm not looking for an easy way out to "slay new pussy" - I'm giving it 5 months. Let her take her anger out. If she wants to see how that strange dick smells like - that's on her. During those 5 months I will improve. Badly. I will be the best mofo around. I will have my shit together. I will understand, I will see if I love her or not. If I decide to take her back, I will be in great position to do that.

But, also, after 12 yrs of such fuckery, I think it will be the best for us to part our ways. But not until 5 months more - and there are 5 months that I give for my improvement, for moving out. Only because I want it so. Call me as you want, this is my decision.

I am a very valuable male IF I keep my shit together. And I will. I'm no longer that victim puking throwaway account and it took me about 6 months to understand the source of my problems.

Somehow, I am grateful that she called that other guy that day. When she called him, things he said lead to my improvement.

So, I'm owning this.

Thank you (no specific order): /u/whinemoreplease /u/irateMD /u/BluepillProfessor /u/TheFamilyAlpha /u/stonepimpletilists

LESSONS LEARNED

  • being "alpha" is not about being a rude dickhead,
  • being an "alpha-alpha" is not about shitting on your wife,
  • taking care of kids does not make you less "alpha-alpha",
  • hitting on cashiers in front of your wife is beta (cashiers should hit on you, not the other way)
  • being an awesome ex-husband and an awesome father actually helps me in my situation,
  • being responsible for what I did in my past actually makes me feel better today,
  • don't fuck another woman during your marriage; this may be validation addiction; give it time, improve yourself. If you improve yourself - you get the validation fix from your wife; better - if you ditch the validation addiction totally, you won't need it at all.

... and, for you "amoral merpers" out there:

  • if you fuck another woman during your marriage, remember: she may be younger, nicer to "new you", she may be a dynamite in bed (because other guys showed her, how; if your wife sucks in bed this means you did not showed her how to be a proper girl) -- you will loose interest in your wife,
  • if you cheat, do it discretely, in a place you and your wife will never visit; your own car, bed, flat, town is a VERY BAD IDEA (in the future she might became aware of it, let her have a cool story so she can forgive you),
  • if you cheat during your marriage and your wife finds out, your wife will probably want to cheat on you too, are you sure you want to fulfill your cuckold fantasy - or end your LTR ASAP?

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Post Information
Title How did I screw up a pretty decent woman during 12 years of validation addiction AKA I solved my train wreck.
Author ex_addict_bro
Upvotes 16
Comments 25
Date March 22, 2016 1:49 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/how-did-i-screw-up-a-pretty-decent-woman-during-12.200190
https://theredarchive.com/post/200190
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4bfgc4/how_did_i_screw_up_a_pretty_decent_woman_during/
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Comments

[–]cj_aubrey3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Addicts and alcoholics drink and use to fix a deep internal pain. OP, you know how you feel when you go cold turkey and then about 7 days later (after the physical withdrawal is gone) you feel terrible emotionally? That pain. Your whole story is basically just a guy thrashing through life trying to fix that pain with alcohol, food, mistresses, validation. Its all the same thing. Its all symptoms of the same problem and it doesn't matter what you use. That's why you get worse after you quit the substance and don't have anything to fix the underlying pain. Oh, and a woman who chose a violent, functioning alcoholic as a husband (out of all the other men around) frequently doesn't want a sober alcoholic for a husband.

How to cure an addiction? You don't. You replace an addiction with something else. What I replace my validation addiction with? With HAVING AN AWESOME LIFE, with a lot of social stuff, with caring about my house, about my kids, about my ex-wife.

There are a variety of ways. Different things work for different people. I'd keep trying until you find one that works for you. MRP can help with fixing part of you. Good luck OP.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Addicts and alcoholics drink and use to fix a deep internal pain. OP, you know how you feel when you go cold turkey and then about 7 days later (after the physical withdrawal is gone) you feel terrible emotionally? That pain. Your whole story is basically just a guy thrashing through life trying to fix that pain with alcohol, food, mistresses, validation. Its all the same thing. Its all symptoms of the same problem and it doesn't matter what you use. That's why you get worse after you quit the substance and don't have anything to fix the underlying pain.

This exactly. I'm thinking the same.

I had a lot of realizations and I understand I need to find it. I need to give it more time. Thank you, this is very wise analysis.

Oh, and a woman who chose a violent, functioning alcoholic as a husband (out of all the other men around) frequently doesn't want a sober alcoholic for a husband.

THIS x 1000. I'm actually calling my AA friend today and telling him that. I FELT IT. Never, ever before I saw this worded in a such accurate way. Shit. You nailed it.

As for my wife, problems in my marriage started when I gave up alcohol. I started acting-out about her - because I had no other ways of fulfilling my validation hunger - BUT, let's have a look at her. Not in a victim-pukey way, but let's have a look at the facts.

That ex-bf of hers she found over FB - she actually told me, some day, in anger that she did not fuck him but she was "able to go to a party with him and get drunk-dead".

That guy she fucked - she told me he smelled with alcohol and this was a bit disgusting to her - but on the other hand, she described him as having much more desire when compared to me. Shit, I realize various reasons why was it like that, but from what I recall, while fucking that technician, I had a hundred times more desire for her than for my wife, so that's one thing... but another thing, guys who drink - correct me if I am wrong - isn't it like some of your barriers disappear after having a shot? I remember this was my case.

Maybe this is what she's missing.

Maybe she just wants to have a drink before and that's what she is missing?

In a bigger part of her life she had alcohol in her system in sexual situations.

I had it too! Until I understood I need to give up... and I realized, that I need TRUE DESIRE, true caveman, that I need a really attractive woman, I need to approach her, I need not to be afraid, I need to do it alpha-style, 100%, or that I should not approach any girl in a half-assed way.

But this is my way.

She might not know what she's missing. She is a grown-up person. If she decides she needs a man who drinks (compulsively or not), she can get one.

By the way - bragging, I know - you know, what she said, when she came back to me? That I looked better. That I was more muscular than this guy. Well, fact is, she fucked a fat dude. Lift, gentleman, lift. Because the other guy who is trying to fuck your wife may be not as good looking as you. He may treat her better, but I can do that too. Way faster, than he can change his looks or diet.

Maybe she just needs a drinking fat dude. She married one - your's truly. Maybe she wants to control such guy.

She even told me few times that she does not like the way I look after i reduced my BF.

This is why I'm not lamenting about her fucking that other guy, because everyone's different - different strokes for different folks.

This may be the case and the time will show. In such case... I'll rest my case. Because - just maybe - after implementing TRP & MRP, maybe if my wife wants a fat dude, maybe this means that I should ask that 25-yr old blonde in yoga pants out. And, having my own shit OWNED, my family stuff SORTED OUT, my divorce COMPLETED (I need still fix things in church, very important for catholics), my car, my money, my health, my hobbies - I will be able to go caveman on such young ass without much problems.

If I am a man, and I look like a man, and I behave like a man and I talk like a man - I'm a man. A tingle-causing man.

[–]cj_aubrey1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

because I had no other ways of fulfilling my validation hunger

See, I call that pain "incompleteness" because that's what it feels like to me. Like there is a part of me missing, or I'm hollow. I feel less than other people. That's why I had to drink every day. To keep that feeling away. But at some point when I was very young I got this idea that if I could convince enough people to agree I was smarter or better, then that would fix whatever was wrong inside me. That's why I wanted the money, the prestige, the success, the women, the approval, the validation. But it's a lie. No amount of external approval will fix my internal incompleteness problem. Its like washing your car and expecting that to fix the engine valve timing. They're totally unrelated. So what does fix it? Connection. Connecting me to people, groups, the universe, humanity, the flow of life, whatever. I find that connection I need in helping other people, being a helpful part of a group, volunteering, prayer, meditation, sponsoring people in AA, contributing to something bigger than me. Maybe it's the same for you OP and these things can be helpful.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Maybe it's the same for you OP and these things can be helpful.

I like connection. But for what I feel, I feel pain. Just like that.

... or do I? I don't have elevated BP, I don't have high heart rate, I'm not clenching my fists, I don't have tears in my eyes.

It fells hollow, it feels uneasy, it can be eased up with movement or connection, right. I don't know what it is. But this is the thing I escaped from.

Today my friend came and I spoke with him and I realized my real position (how old I am, how much do I earn, how cool are things around me) and it was gone. That hollow feeling was gone. I'm not sure what it is.

Maybe it's something from early childhood. Like a forgotten child in the cradle, crying in the dark. Why does it cry? Because it is afraid. Children who did not cry when they were hungry, died. Maybe that's something like it.

Thanks.

[–]cj_aubrey1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Today my friend came and I spoke with him .... That hollow feeling was gone.

Connecting (really connecting, not just talking about bullshit) to another person will do it for me.

Maybe it's something from early childhood. Like a forgotten child in the cradle, crying in the dark. Why does it cry? Because it is afraid. Children who did not cry when they were hungry, died. Maybe that's something like it.

I think that analysis is on the right track. But at some point I stopped asking why I became an alcoholic or where it came from. Not sure I'll ever know. But today I think the most important thing is for me to understand how it manifests in my life and what I need to include in my life to fix it. If I make sure that a lot of my life is filled with things that increase my connection, that incompleteness is relieved and I'm fine.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How did your LTR survived your sobriety, CJ?

[–]cj_aubrey0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. I met her when i was a few years sober. That was more than a decade ago

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Guys who don't want to read the whole backstory, read the bullet points, then read the body text sections from the bottom up. Don't skip the post entirely - there are some unique things he's saying that apply to many of us.
 
You were banging other women for validation. You were a successful PUA. It would have been a great FR in the red pill main sub. It was empty, addictive, and wasn't making you happy. Now you've got your head screwed on straight, and you can figure out what you really want.
 
I'd be curious to hear what /u/over60_stupid_loner would have to say about this.
 
Congratulations on ditching the last of your addictions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Just as I was thinking about what I needed to say to OP, u/IrateMD your post appeared.

Some here comes my confession:

As a former serial cheater, I think there is are behavioral connections with addiction, validation seeking, and cheating, for SOME people. I find myself identifying with some of OP's near manic behavior.

As I review my past for clues to my strengths and weaknesses, I continue to come to the conclusion that I sought validation from my affairs. But not the validation that I was a GOOD person, but that I was more attractive, stronger and smarter that the other bears in the woods. I CRAVED that amoral validation more than food, water or sleep. That was a consuming addiction that I charmed my way into the beds of so many.

Granted, I had no other viable outlet at home for my needs for love. I was alone and I new it. Yes, I took charge of my needs at first. But the ongoing admirations from so many women, over time, created in me a addiction. An addiction to the chase. An addiction to proving myself ad infinitum. This validation seeking addiction went far beyond filling my real needs. Over-filling the hole in my life, eventually broke the container.

For a year and 1/2; a year before and 6 months after I left my ex - I went monk mode. Daily meditation, daily reading and the help of a fantastic psychiatrist and an equally brilliant hypo-therapist. I had a lot of help putting me back together again.

So the point I have for you OP…. You cannot just DECIDE to overcome your addictions. You will need lots of support systems. This is where you need to concentrate your energy now. MRP just is not equipped to get you ALL the you need, and you are going to need a lot.

This is not to take anything away from the progress you have made. You literally have saved your life here. But, you are far from done.

OP, I do wish you the very best. You will need it.

Edit: When I wrote The Cheating Game post, I called it a cautionary tale. I just didn't understand it yet, and I'm still working on it.

Edit #2: OP, reading your response, I don't know if I really helped you at all. I gained more by owning my shit than I think I could ever add for you. Done.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As I review my past for clues to my strengths and weaknesses, I continue to come to the conclusion that I sought validation from my affairs. But not the validation that I was a GOOD person, but that I was more attractive, stronger and smarter that the other bears in the woods.

"Fuck yeah. That's how life feels." - that's what I thought reading this.

Some people say, that you can be addicted only to chemical stuff. That behavioral problems are not addictions. I'm not sure if this is an academic discussion or does it have deeper meaning, why?

Because being smarter than other bears in the woods improves our world.

Because feeling hungry and lonely keeps us alive.

You can eat shit or over-eat. You can drink over your loneliness. Steven Chandler, who is also an older dude, works on his Death Wish project now and I feel he might have something to add here. You can over-fuck somehow. Ever noticed, that The Ten Commandments have fucking in 2 out of 10 commandments? "don't kill" - once, "don't steal" - once, but "don't fuck your neighbor's wife" and "don't do infidelity" this is fucking TWICE. What are 10 commandments? It is a christian's recipe for happy life, NOTHING MORE. So, if the matter is listed there TWICE it means it caused a lot of unhappiness in the past.

This is why fucking keeps us alive, but addicted fucking can cause a lot of trouble.

Also, in "lessons learned", as one of girls I dated was a married woman, I made a concours decision NOT TO FUCK MARRIED WOMEN. I know everything about the guy who fucked my wife, I am not doing any actions, because - legitimately - I broke up with her 2 days before she fucked him, this was all my wish - but I know this guy, I have his number and address. I will never ever date or fuck a married woman. Because today I am a bit afraid that this husband of that girl I dated once might some day have an idea to visit me. A dead guy like me is a loss for society.

So, gentlemen, fuck sensibly and cheat sensibly. And, /u/theultmatecad - I don't believe the thought of meeting a mad husband of one of women you fucked never crossed your mind.

If you believe in God, magic, unicorns, or butterflies, no matter - 10 Commandments, as in Bible, tell us not to fuck irresponsibly TWICE. That's some solid shit.

Granted, I had no other viable outlet at home for my needs for love. I was alone and I new it. Yes, I took charge of my needs at first. But the ongoing admirations from so many women, over time, created in me a addiction. An addiction to the chase. An addiction to proving myself ad infinitum. This validation seeking addiction went far beyond filling my real needs. Over-filling the hole in my life, eventually broke the container.

For me, I needed just that one girl, whom I approached in a really courageous way. When we started kissing and I grabbed her pussy, I thought "man, that's way easier than sit-ups". I kid you not.

I was never below 20% BF in my life. For the past 12 years I molested my wife and I was a shitty husband, lousy lover, shitty father, lousy worker. This is me proving myself.

Since some time, I was wondering "why does this red pill stuff does not work for me". Well, it could not. I kept doing the same addictive stuff over and over and over.

So the point I have for you OP…. You cannot just DECIDE to overcome your addictions. You will need lots of support systems. This is where you need to concentrate your energy now. MRP just is not equipped to get you ALL the you need, and you are going to need a lot.

This is perhaps one of last of my addictions. I have various tools. I seen a magnitude of analogies between them. I believe that if you have a bright mind you can clearly see, what is what - what is withdrawal symptoms, what is craving, what is acting-out. There are similarities.

This is not to take anything away from the progress you have made. You literally have saved your life here. But, you are far from done. OP, I do wish you the very best. You will need it.

Thanks. And godspeed to you too.

Edit: When I wrote The Cheating Game post, I called it a cautionary tale. I just didn't understand it yet, and I'm still working on it.

I am not sure what was your situation. I remember you told us you won't go into issues with your wife. Okay.

For me... in my life there was no cheating game. There was validation addiction. I don't pity anything. Luckily, everything I did was pushing me forward to the truth and to straightening up myself. And it feels good... and you can't replace this feeling with any drug (well, I never did cocaine though).

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Fuck yeah. That's how life feels." - that's what I thought reading this. Some people say, that you can be addicted only to chemical stuff. That behavioral problems are not addictions.

This is where people may misunderstand addictions. It is an addiction to chemicals- To the chemicals in the brain that are released when we do pleasurable things.

Many things trigger the release of the dopamine and glutamate that reward us chemically for doing pleasurable activities. There is more to pleasure from fucking you wife than just regular sex, because in our cases ( at least at fist), its more than just sex, its validation.

Then you have the revenge fucking / cheating - because you can and because your wife doesnt deserve it but you make a choice to stay anyway. And you resent her for your choices. But at the end of the day, every time you fuck another girl, its validation- I am better, This is better, Fuck her anyway etc.

It becomes learned reward seeking behavior, especially at first. And that gets solidified into an addiction. And cheaters generally display addictive behavior.

So yes at the end of the day, I think most of us would say that stepping out of marriage for sex, whatever the situation, and however justified, did a fuck ton more chemically to us than "regular" sex. And we went to seek that dopamine surge again and again.

Not a problem until it gets you into trouble, which is basically the definition of addiction.

[–]H_to_Tha_OV3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I read the wall of text - interesting story. But this is about the fourth or fifth "A Ha" moment you had. Is MRP becoming your new validation addiction source?

Careful with applying RP with mental disorders, they don't always apply (e.g. BPD women) or can't cover everything - loke in your case. For instance, you keep talking about not being alpha enough for your ex. But really, she's not looking for your typical alpha - it looks like she's looking for an alcoholic and probably has daddy issues. Classic codependent. Seriously - make HER get help because she'll be bringing shitheads around your boys eventually.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I read the wall of text - interesting story. But this is about the fourth or fifth "A Ha" moment you had. Is MRP becoming your new validation addiction source?

I see what you mean. I honestly confess I've been there.

I came to get my ass kicked and to kill my ego. I came to sum stuff up and to reframe all that.

I see that I really DID WENT somewhere, as there is minimal ass kicking and a lot of insight in comments.

Today I am my own source of my validation. Even if this post may look like this, this is a honest confession. Why here? Because only you can understand. Because I won't hear "ditch the bitch", "she's a whore" but "own your shit".

In the past I've been banned here for constant victim puke validation posts.

I understand that this is the moment for me to STFU about my shitty castle and my ex-princess.

Careful with applying RP with mental disorders, they don't always apply (e.g. BPD women) or can't cover everything - loke in your case.

What's "loke"?

For instance, you keep talking about not being alpha enough for your ex. But really, she's not looking for your typical alpha - it looks like she's looking for an alcoholic and probably has daddy issues. Classic codependent. Seriously - make HER get help because she'll be bringing shitheads around your boys eventually.

I already told her to check out how the guy behaves when he's sober.

She may be codependent. But guess what - you don't save a codependent person by telling her she's codependent and needs therapy. Just like you can't save an active alcoholic by telling him he needs to go to rehab. That would be - you guessed - codependency.

I spoke with her a lot recently. I know, acts non words, but I am not trying to gain her back. I am not going to play someone who I am not.

I can loose her without any visible trouble. I am already divorced, I already pay alimony. I will move out, but that's what I would have to do anyway, this relationship did not improve over time AT ALL.

I told her I love her, as in family love - I will take care of her and my kids well-being no matter what. I will actually help us with getting out of the situation, because I led us here, because I was addicted AND unaware of it, I got us here, I will get us out of here, clean the flat, take my things away, move, done. I discovered my addiction thanks to her, this was my lesson with her, I'm done.

I told her I have nothing to propose her as a sexual being and that was honest too.

As for the other guy - here it gets interesting. This guy looks like I did before we got married. He has the same eyes, he has the same curvature of lips. A bit chubby, party animal, DJ, promoter, travels a lot, generally I bet he's an interesting guy. What can I learn from him? He has way, way, way bigger social network than I will probably ever have. Also... he does his OWN FUCKING THING and does NOT GIVE A FUCK.

Why am I still a sane person, I think? Because EVERYTHING WORKS IN ORDER WITH RED PILL TEACHINGS. Every single fucking thing. There are no accidents. Whenever I fucked, whenever I lost SMV points. You know what's the worst for my -ex-wife? That I approached that girl at my workplace when my wife was pregnant. WHAT DOES LEVELS OF DREAD POST SAY? You do not do such things during pregnancy or you nuke the relationship. This girl will probably never fuck me again, as she will never trust me, because - even if I stayed at home - I kissed other girl during pregnancy.

And, he has some lust for her. Or maybe that was whiskey. Or, maybe he got infatuated with her, as he travelled about 3 hours to fuck her. Or, maybe he needs to AMOG me badly, as his ex-gf left him for some rich guy. Maybe an MD.

They will probably meet this week.

Me and my ex-wife - we're clear, we are not in an relationship, we just share flat and custody.

I feel pain, but today I understand this has nothing to do with my wife's decisions. All it is - it is withdrawal symptoms and cravings. It is the pain I tried to escape since early childhood. What is this pain, why does it feel like that? I have no idea. Maybe I will work it out.

It disappears totally when I focus on my life though. I realize, that when I finally made a decision to ditch her and fix my life, I am on a proper tracks. She does not matter. She helped me actually, gave me a lesson. That guy she fucked - that's another lesson too.

A lesson to never approach a woman because of fear. To never LTR a woman when not sober.

This post, all that words tired me. Enough.

Words won't help me.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I just hope you don't have any children.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Didn't read the whole thing, eh? They have kids. Hopefully he can provide some stability in their lives now that he had his head on straight(er).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Apparently I did not well enough!

[–]bogeyd60 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't feel bad, it was a tough read 10 hours ago.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

3 boys. Two between 5 and 10 yrs, one 1 yr.

[–]NO_LAH_WHERE_GOT2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

OP, I sense that there's something missing from your story. It sounds to me like you have some deep-rooted shit that you need to take care of.

The "lessons learned" you describe are all sorta "duh"– don't be a dick, take care of your kids, don't cheat on your wife, take responsibility for your shit. My question is– what sort of shit did you go through that required you to have to learn those lessons the hard way?

I hope you're doing okay. Sounds rough, man.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP, I sense that there's something missing from your story. It sounds to me like you have some deep-rooted shit that you need to take care of.

I'd love to know.

I agree with you on the "lessons learned" - I also feel I missed something very, very important.

Unfortunately I am unable to formulate it with words, perhaps I'm not yet aware of it.

I'm doing fine. There are some compulsive thoughts in my head that I thought that will be impossible to fix, I thought about medications or alcohol (because I told myself that I stop with the sexual validation) - but everything seems to be gone when I focus on my life, on my next step. Programming, gym, biking, talking with friends - this also feels pretty addictive to me. I can replace unsuccessful compulsive behaviors with that.

As for my ex-wife, I think she deserves a better life than this. Clearly - she has her own issues, clearly, if she took such low-value man and allowed her to be treated this way for many years. She has her own issues because she hardly did any therapy in the past, and now she got somehow "rescued" from a bad relationship after making her own conscious decision to meet and fuck another man she knew for 24 hours. On the other hand, - this may sound a bit harsh, but if she got infatuated with that another guy, this is good for me, because I have her off my ass. I remember how clingy can she be. And I am not sure that I want her as my woman any more. I am analyzing this situation because I have 3 kids and I care about my relationship with her as a mother of my children. I don't want her to do stupid things - on the other hand, I molested her for 12 yrs.

Maybe I'm a psychopath and all I want is I don't want my fuck toy to be broken by someone else. Maybe this all post is really covered in crocodile tears - the truth is that I really changed my behavior because I saw how unsuccessful it was. On the other hand, I changed it into something useful, using various good techniques from MRP. I felt something in me change for better. I'm unable to verbalize it. Just like with the gym - even I went through "faux alpha" phase - I kept lifting, I kept improving.

I actually feel I must be very well prepared to actually leave her (as in "move out"). She will make all the kinds of drama for me to stay. She always did. She will cry but if I decide to stay, we'll be in a deep shit in a blink of an eye again.

Her crying when you break up - a nuclear shit test. You decide to leave, shit, you ain't worth her, she cried, you left, you insensible motherfucker. Or - you see her crying, your heart melts, you decide to stay, welcome to her frame again.

Thanks.

[–]bogeyd61 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Man, what a wall of text. I tried to read it. I really did. My only takeaway is you went digging through the trash. Never a good idea. Your neighbors see you do it and what you find if never worth what you thought it was.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't feel like I'm able to summarize it more. This would not give you the full picture.

I remember that. I read that. That's from Rollo.

She was not trash before. But now... chances are it's not worth it at this moment.

[–]bogeyd60 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for really editing this post and filling it out. What an awesome story. Ok, but it takes me back to the original content. Your "wife" is basically trying to find another relationship and you think it's a good idea to hang around to see if you can fix it. Truth time. Sometimes a man can do so much fucking damage there is just no coming back from it. Sounds like you are there. I am not entirely sure why you are staying and trying to fix something that you should have already walked away from. Perhaps its another addiction or maybe you just see it as those old pair of jeans you cant seem to throw away.

The belligerents have both committed extreme acts of atrocities that it takes a big person to own up and come to terms. It takes an even bigger person to forgive those acts. I know you want to hear that everything you wrote down is the most awesome thing you could do. Fact is, you have focused in on you, which is great! That's real progress. Problem is, you are metaphorically digging through the trash.

Let's do some long term thinking. Let's say she goes for this new you and decides to stay. You think all that side dick for the past 5 months is just going to disappear and much like a dog at the fire hydrant she won't go sniffing around? Maybe the side dicks come sniffing around. What about any STD's she picks up along the way because Chad didn't want to use a condom? There are going to be so many trust issues, resentment, and anger on both sides. A man hardly ever chooses the hard way, well, because it's hard. If it was easy, it would just be the way. My hat is off to you for choosing the most extremely difficult method you could find to be happy with yourself again. You know by now I don't fault men for their actions, even when I disagree. Just know to yourself what you are getting into.

There is a whole pool of chicks who want a good looking man that makes money and has shit together. They want to fuck, to submit, to defer, and to let you lead. My advice, next her and get on with your new life.

[–]ex_addict_bro[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I skipped few parts.

Yes, all you suggested has already happened or is happening.

I'm not saying I'll choose the hard way, because this is exactly what you told.

Side dick already came sniffing around. This was the nuclear shit test I did not pass.

I told her a few things. I told her I want her to start therapy for codependent, to stop contacting side dick, to stop looking up his FB. I asked her to get her shit together, to become a woman that I could really want. She told me she won't do that.

This means I'm done with her. NEXT.

I'm applying for church divorce (as a catholic, I have at least 2 situations which make my marriage irrelevant - as an alcohol addict I was unable to take a conscious decision, this is why the marriage is VOID).

I'll look for fresh pussy when I have my shit put together (moved out, STD tests done after 6 months after last contact with her - yes, Chad does not like condoms).

Pussy won't be problem. Unless I got HIV.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This deserves to be put on TRP. A lesson to me and my fellow single men; you improve for yourself first, second and third.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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