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How to Handle Apologies From Your Wife

December 1, 2016
83 upvotes

Like the proverbial "Does this dress make me look fat?" question, there is no good straight answer to a wife's apology for bad behavior toward you.

Our BP culture holds one responsible for others’ feelingz, fears overt conflict or disagreement, and insists that everyone pretend to be friendz, so we have been conditioned to unconditionally accept any apology, however insincere, and to validate feelz around it as well. Weak, passive-aggressive, or manipulative people often use apologies as a get-out-of-jail-free strategy to avoid consequences for bad behavior. Thus, an "It's OK" or "No worries" or even "Apology accepted" may suggest that an apology afterward is a free pass to avoid consequences for bad behavior, or that you are too beta to enforce consequences. But replies like “You SHOULD be ashamed,” “Don’t let it happen again,” or “I expect more respect from you in future” just display butthurt and that you're trapped in your wife's frame, which is even more beta.

Your two good choices: Oak, or Rock

You should choose either an Oak (to give comfort without supplication or compromising your standards) or a Rock (to emphasize boundaries or expectations) response, as appropriate.

Oak responses. Oak responses providing mild comfort could be "Glad you're feeling better now," a smile and a kiss on the forehead, or "Hang in there, babe;" these give comfort for her bad feelz about her mistake ... but still reaffirm that she made a mistake and that it is hers to own. In addition, such responses show that you are (or at least are now) emotionally unaffected by her bad behavior; you're the Oak that wasn't hurt by the storm. This is perhaps a kind of fogging with which you can adjust the amount of comfort to the level you think appropriate.

If it was an out-of-character lapse on her part from typically good behavior, you’ll likely want to accept the apology and downplay the event; in this case, A&A or a funny change of subject work well. Using a recent text message example from this post, a decent reply to

I apologize for being bitchy. The kids are really bugging me. Kid 2's inability to do anything and Kid 3's attitude

might be

What's for dinner? Kid stew?

or the ever-favorite turn to sexual innuendo

“You HAVE been a bad girl, haven’t you? Remind me to spank you in bed tonight!

These are higher-comfort Oak responses.

Apology after hard no. Men here have reported apologies after hard rejections for sex. And /r/DeadBedrooms is rife with get-out-of-jail-free apologies and partners stuck forever playing the direct comfort game. To an apology after an occasional hard no from a generally responsive wife, a kiss on the forehead and “Hope you’re feeling better soon. Goodnight” is an OI Oak response that provides some comfort without absolving her of responsibility for the rejection. This can be adapted in various ways as you see fit for your current situation; for example

“Hope you’re feeling better soon. Hey, I’m too wired to sleep right now; I’m going to the gym to lift. Sleep well, babe.”

Or (only if you can pull off funny with a big smile, total OI and complete lack of sarcasm or butthurt)

“Hope you’re feeling better soon. Hey, I’m too wired to sleep right now; I’m going to the gym to lift. If you hear a loud boom echoing across town, that’s just my balls exploding.”

Of course after a year-long dead bedroom, comfort is no longer appropriate, and a Rock response such as /u/Scubastyles reports in this post is called for.

Rock responses. The best Rock reply is usually simply no reply (STFU). "OK" or "Acknowledged" or "Thanks" are weaker; STFU is best unless you deliberately choose to soften the stone a bit.

For major transgressions with necessary consequences, this is the time to enforce them, without anger or overt emotion (be an immovable Rock). For example, “I’m glad you recognize that withdrawing all of our retirement savings to buy shoes was a bad idea. Because we need to manage our money better, I am taking over the family finances.” For extreme violations such as physical attack or illegal drug use, “I will immediately divorce you if this ever happens again” must be overtly stated in response to the apology. (But never state consequences unless you are 100% committed to following through.)

Rock, or Oak?

Whether a Rock or Oak response is called for depends on your good judgement of the specific situation. If she means the apology as an affirmation and acceptance of your boundaries and leadership, an Oak response is in order (unless the infraction is too severe or repeated too frequently to comfort any more). But when it is merely a too-often-repeated get-out-of-jail-free-for-bad-behavior request, or a "shitty apology" to test how much you're willing to let slide, a hard Rock response is required. No reply to a text. In person, a silent stare for several seconds (well into uncomfortable silence, duration calibrated to the level of the infraction or test), followed by a change of subject. If she presses for a verbal response to break your frame, "Thank you for your apology," "I acknowledge your apology" (not "accept" unless get-out-of-jail-free is your deliberately chosen intent), “I’ll take that into account,” “I heard you,” or “This subject is closed” as fits your intent and WISNIFG Broken Record or leave from there. Always, always remember that “verbal intercourse is optional”. You decide your response only as you see right and appropriate; you have absolutely no obligation to accept an apology or to validate feelz when someone has wronged you, nor even to respond at all, but you may deliberately choose to do so, in whatever manner, in congruence with your values, vision, and leadership goals.

Many apologies will be a mixture of sincere and shitty (or at least some hope for a get-out-of-jail-free card), so you'll have to evaluate both the original infraction, the larger context (first time or repeated), and the sincerity in determining your Oak or Rock response.

Own your own shit

And if you are a weak beta using apologies as a get-out-of-jail-free strategy for avoiding the consequences of your own poor behavior, FFS stop it, become a man and OYS.

Edit: This outstanding post on Why you shouldn't care if you wife doesn't apologize by /user/strategos_autokrator is a must-read addressing some different aspects.

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[–]Aaren_Augustine19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oak response that provides some comfort without absolving her of responsibility for the rejection.

Fuck that's a great way to put it. So if STFU is the first baby step and forming frame, "oak and rock responses" seems to be the next step. Kind of like progressive weight lifting, this is progressive frame building. Form and technique are absolute, of which you have clearly explained here.

Extremely useful post. Thanks.

[–]sh0ckley5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

+1

High value post. A great way of conceptualizing the options.

[–]PhoneticJustice4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't know I needed this thread. Great post.

[–]nastynickdrMRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Also be careful to notice when its a real apology or just another shit test.

My ex LTR would go "Im sorry for being a bitch earlier", I would say something like "Its ok, you had a rough day" and she would go "Dont you have something else to say?" wanting me to say im sorry as well to make things "even". Oh well, like the spineless bitch I was I would usually do it.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"I'm sorry that you don't understand why I have nothing to be sorry for"

[–]2gunsgetsomeMRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Dont you have something else to say?"

Yes. I love… … cake.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

For failure on her part to do something and her subsequent apology :

ex :

"I didn't make dinner I am sorry I had to bla bla bla."

Your statement of "No problem, I will take care of it"

should produce dread. She knows the value she does or does not provide. If you have to do "everything", she knows there is no reason to keep her.

Be valuable enough that her wasting of your time, affection and attention is a dread producing thing.

[–]rocknrollchuckMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. If you are not a man that she sees as having high value, this response will only allow her to push more of her responsibilities on you without feeling guilty about it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

Except many women will see this as an absolution of responsibility.

"I don't have to cook dinner. I'll just say sorry, I was busy and he'll do it. Chump."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

should produce dread. She knows the value she does or does not provide. If you have to do "everything", she knows there is no reason to keep her. Be valuable enough that her wasting of your time, affection and attention is a dread producing thing.

If you wasting your time because of her does not dread her, you are a weak sissy pussyboi. Don't be a weak sissy pussyboi.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

You forget solipsism.

What makes you think that your accepting to do her chores will inspire dread in her?

I just don't see wives thinking "ohmygod he's wasting his time doing my chores!! Dread!"

More likely, her hamster would say, "it's about time the lazy fuck step up and help me out!! What has he done for me lately??"

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

More likely, her hamster would say, "it's about time the lazy fuck step up and help me out!! What has he done for me lately??"

so, most women are married to faggots. don't be a faggot.

[–]discobolus_ 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Doesn't really address the solipsism.

Near every female I've ever worked with is convinced that if they are doing a task, they are the only ones working.

This changes at home if I'm not a faggot?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Let me address solipsism then : For a man she wants to please, she will solipsize (sp?) that he is going to not be nice to her anymore, or worse, be ABSENT!! ( the horror) if she doesn't make him happy .

I bet when /u/TheFamilyAlpha 's work wife ( who cooks for him apparently) does not bring "them" lunch, she says sorry and means it. She solipsized that its her job to bring another woman's man his food... do you get how to use solipsism yet?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Gotcha...

So the "what have you done for me lately" effect that is so often discussed here is simply because men are "pussy faggots", and has nothing to do with the nature of women. And any man that has a wife that thinks this way is a "pussy faggot" as well.

I'll be sure to note that.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Control what you can.

Nature of women is like water. It exists. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I hate it.

I can drink it and live or it can swallow me up and kill me.

your sarcasm is funny.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Dude, no shit I just finished eating some popcorn that she popped for me because I said I was hungry.

Nothing more, just said I was hungry and fucking poof.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Dude, no shit I just finished eating some popcorn that she popped for me because I said I was hungry.

I am starting to find the weak minded faggots on here annoying.

While I can sit here and say, you know what, I don't think I can pull of __ "alpha thing"__ , ( yet) but I sure as shit know it CAN be done, and easily.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I go through phases, it's usualy BPP who dials me back in to the fact that, These men know not what they are capable of

[–]Chinchilla_the_HunMarried1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The key prerequisites are that your SMV is high enough and you're owning your shit. With these in place, if you end up sacrificing some aspect of your MAP to handle her shit in addition to yours, she'll either:

A) recognize the burden she placed on you, feel bad about her lack of responsibility, and correct course
or

B) experience a decrease in benefit from your relationship (e.g. less time for fun), dislike the negative feels, and correct course.

Or to put it in /u/scurvemuch 's words...not being a faggot takes care of solipsism in this case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks, I was feelingz mizundestood.

[–]sunthas0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I hear you, but I don't understand how me doing all the chores and her having no responsibilities outside of her job creates dread in and of itself.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

at this point, its because you are autistic.

this situation should be the exception, not the rule. If its the rule, change that.

[–]HobbesTheBrave0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

No, he is an idiot. Or he haven't yet read sidebar yet. Or bought his own copy of WISNIFG. Or he is a troll, who tries to push the discussion towards something more pathetic and unmasculine.

I'm an autistic, and I notice that he fails to notice how self-reliance makes her sort of redundant. If he doesn't need her at home for basic man-maintenance, she might get replaced or discarded.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Autistic here was used as "faggot" used to be

[–]jm512 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Guy I know does this. Interrupts people, says or posts tactless shit etc. and thinks a simple 'Sorry' after the fact absolves him.

At a mutual friends place, I was sat next to him while he was playing a song on guitar. It was late, I got out my phone and called a taxi. He complained about it when he finished the song. I gave a mumbled 'Sorry'. He kept complaining. 'Hey, I said sorry. That means whatever I did is ok now, like the way you can keep interrupting people and it's all ok because you say sorry afterwards.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The last time I apologized was in the summer when I blew a firecracker up in a flower pot and covered her in dirt. Albeit was a laughing apology, it was necessary.

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

LPT:

Like the proverbial "Does this dress make me look fat?" question

"Babe, it's not the dress it's your ass."

She'll learn to stop asking stupid questions after that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

there are no stupid questions.

Only people who dont want to take the opportunity presented.

:-)

[–]Coniferous_880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent advice. There is a lot of weight carried in the subtlety of that distinction. Dovetails perfect with what the BPP talks about in his book when he discusses the difference between withdrawing your attention vs. withdrawing your presence.

[–]rocknrollchuckMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Great post! Excellent way to describe the difference, with good examples too.

Regarding the proverbial "Does this dress make me look fat?" question, Athol Kay gives a great answer in his book "How To Answer Do These Pants Make My Ass Look Fat and Get Laid Like Tile":

There comes a time in every man’s life, when the woman he is involved with asks the dreaded question.

“Do these pants make my ass look fat?” (DTPMMALF)

Guys tend to be simple creatures with basic needs. Feed us, let us have a place to sleep and some form of entertainment and we usually run at 95% of maximum happiness. Most guys will automatically attempt to answer any question with a one word answer. Unfortunately the only words that spring to mind are either “yes” or “no.”

Answering “yes” is of course a terrible choice. If you can’t figure out why on your own, you’re probably not salvageable as a male. (Also those kids calling you Dad probably aren’t yours either – just a heads up)

Answering “no” is not the relationship suicide that answering “yes” is, but if you watch her face carefully you will not see any enjoyment in hearing a “no” answer. “No” is not the right answer, somehow you have failed.

Occasionally someone will attempt to answer DTPMMALF by neither answering “yes” nor “no” and advancing a cautious “maybe” as an answer. The Maybe Gambit does work as an answer, but – and this is important – it works only if you are her girlfriend or a gay friend.

You answering “maybe” just makes you seem completely developmentally delayed. You are expected to have strong well formed opinions on the state of her body. Have you been paying attention to her at all?

The other attempted answer is the It’s All In Your Head Defense where you explain that she is somehow mentally unstable for asking the question. This is the best of the answers so far, but is essentially an insult at heart and drives the two of you a little further apart. Don’t use it.

The Actual Question Being Asked

Having covered what not to answer DTPMMALF with, it’s time to find out what to answer DTPMMALF with. Let’s break down DTPMMALF into something simple enough for the average guy to understand. When she says,

“Do these pants make my ass look fat?”

You should hear, “Xx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx xx ass xxxx xxx?”

Removing the verbal clutter, it is summarized to, “ass?”

The correct response to that question is your first and natural response. I.e. “yes of course I’d like some ass.” Remember how the “no” answer didn’t please her? See how you screwed that up now?

So how do you answer DTPMMALF - and get laid.

Give her your best I’m-a-sly-dog-naughty-boy smile. Hold the smile and make eye contact for at least 3–5 seconds until she stops whatever she is doing and pays complete attention to you. Then say…

“I don’t know. I would have to see your ass without the pants.” Then just wait expectantly, continuing to hold eye contact.

Now What Happens?!?!

One of two things will happen. Either she takes the pants off or she doesn’t. If she takes them off… close the deal. If she doesn’t take them off she should have at least smiled letting you know you answered the question correctly. That means good things will happen to you from her in the near future. Don’t be a twit and blow it.

Warning About Answering DTPMMALF Correctly: Women only ask this question when they are in the fertile part of their monthly cycle.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

“Do these pants make my ass look fat?” You should hear, “Xx xxxxx xxxxx xxxx xx ass xxxx xxx?”

no, you aren't fully correct.

The correct interpretation of the question is :

" Do you still want to fuck me?"

The correct answer is

you : " come here..."

Her: "bla bla no what" eyeroll

" come here"

have her turn around.

slap her butt, pinch her butt, put your hands around her and kiss her neck. What ever.

the right answer is show her that you still want her.

Now, if you do not want her...

Why is she there?

[–]fidelity_ 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I was asked this question once and it was as a joke because she's wire thin. My response was to tell her "hell yeah it does" and I pulled her close and bit her ass and pulled off her pants. Only response needed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

assmuncher.

good one

[–]sunthas0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rocknrollchuck was just quoting the book

[–]LucidMindJob0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

On the rare occasions that my wife does apologize, it almost always is accompanied by a 'forgive me fuck" and is really hard to turn down. The problem with giving in to the apology sex is it shows I am easily manipulated into accepting her apology and she gets a trade-off of sex for a "get out of jail free" card. I would like to know how others would handle this scenario. It isn't that normal sex is rare and I am desperate, but the forgive-me fuck is usually a very enthusiastic romp.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take the sex, but don't hand out the card. Did she honor all of your covert contracts when you were a Nice GuyTM ?

Are you sure that she even holds this covert contract in her own mind, or is this just your covert contract, Beta Boy?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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