Is Dread Working?

NaturallyMasculine · 2016-06-21T13:55:44+00:00

Argument ensued

This should not be happening every time you disagree on something.

Every situation I failed at leadership brought up. Accused of being a controlling male. All very normal things for her to say.

Normal things? Are they accurate?

I gave her the Captain/First Officer speech and my vision and mission for the family.

If you have to say (remind) that you're the Captain - you're not.

she opened her own account and redirected her pay check there.

Good, it wouldn't be fun if it were easy would it? You have a chick who is strong and driven - willing to take action to get what she wants - is she out 'alpha'ing' you? Too much woman for you to lead?

That's when revealed she feels like we are close to divorce, and she has mentioned it twice since then.

That's ok, I think it was /u/Archwinger who brings up the point time and again that if you change the rules of the relationship, it may not survive. That's ok, either she joins you onboard this path to a genuine you or she doesn't. This is about you living and acting the way you should have always been, don't cater yourself to avoid divorce or conflict. Be your genuine self - don't be a dick, but be you free from constraint.

Is dread working?

What dread?

Since she started back full time and working midnights at the hospital she’s stressing out... She is cooking, cleaning, and trying to be more participatory in the house activities again

Maybe you should recognize how you could facilitate her to being able to manage stress and school while leading her to following your lead.

Any how, awesome Fathers Day weekend. I put some new equipment in my garden dojo. I built a wing chung wooden dummy and made some additional gear for hojo undo. I also got permission from my sensei to start my own dojo. I have no long term plans to go commercial but I have had requests from people that can’t train at “regular” hours. I can accommodate….but then he told me that’s how it always starts.

Completely irrelevant and seems like you're looking to gain 'cool guy' points. Focus on the point of your post - you're losing your wife and aren't sure if it's because you suck or she doesn't like/trust the transition of power.

ReddJive · 2016-06-21T16:00:05+00:00

Lots of good comments here, so I won't repeat them, just pull back the camera a bit.

Over the weekend last she had an argument. She decided we were going to Disney on vacation. Argument ensued. Every situation I failed at leadership brought up. Accused of being a controlling male.

This isn't dread or "interesting", this is main event territory. She's seen your changes, and she's not ready to hand anything over to you. You've been posting to MRP for 2 months, and talk a lot about the boundaries that you're enforcing:

You also talk about lack of sex, scheduled sex, gaming other women, and FMoFY. Overall, it really sounds like you are still in the anger phase and/or rushing the process. And your frame seems awful weak if you're DEERing and overtly talking about C/FO dynamic.

redirected her paycheck [...] marriage counseling [...] mentioned divorce

Wow. One of these might indicate some dread, but all three? This should be a huge red flag that she's not on board at all with what you are doing.

I am getting mixed signals.

What mixed signals? Is she responding positively to any of your changes?

Look, I don't want to harsh on you, because you seem like you are really working hard at the MRP playbook, and you seem to have most of your shit in a pile. I love your posts on EDC kits and stuff. But your wife is not a friendly or sympathetic audience. She clearly gets some value from you, but you're not convincing her that you actually have what it takes to lead this relationship. For example, you've complained in the past that she's not doing chores or contributing financially, and now that she's doing both, you're still not happy with her stress or efforts. You talk about gaming other women and having abundance mentality, but I'm not sure that you're really ready for the FMoFY discussion.

You posted this a month ago:

So the plan is go back to step one. Review and analysis each step. I am starting over, not in defeat, but in review.

What did you find out? What did you do?

From your history, it seem to have two large hang-ups in your marriage: sex/intimacy and career/finances. I'm not going to talk about the sex, apart to say that you seem to be jumping all over the place from the 10-second-kiss and gaming, to stopping initiating because you're butt hurt. It all seems to be wrapped up in getting her approval and validation.

So, what about your career and finances?

Again, this is a place where you could make some progress, but this shit is either in your wife's frame, or nobody's.

I think you really need to take your foot off the MRP accelerator here, because here's the thing, your wife seems to be a capable and achieving woman:

She knows you want sex, and she accommodates that twice a week.
She knows you are struggling to make ends meet, and she gets a job.
She knows you're unhappy about the chores, and she starts pitching in more.
She knows you're unhappy with the marriage, and suggests counseling.

And all of the shit you're doing, the boundaries and dread, are coming from someone who still hasn't demonstrated that he's capable of handling the most important issues in his marriage. She plans a vacation, so you throw a temper tantrum and try to tell her you're the boss. Frankly, I think she's flipped the tables and is applying the MRP playbook on you.

So, my question is, what exactly is she doing that's got you in a funk? Are her complaints about your fuck-ups legitimate? And what are you bringing to the relationship that should make her trust your leadership? It seems like there are a lot of covert contracts and ego left to kill.

At this point, I think a bit of marriage counseling may be helpful.

over60_stupid_loner · 2016-06-21T14:31:01+00:00

ReddJive, I know you can do this. But man, I still think you are stuck somehow. Here's my broken record for you: you didn't lead here, what did you really do here? I think you are still seeking validation from her and she knows it. The failed leadership you mention is way too PRESENT. Many of these things happened in the past. Trust is a problem here.

Do you know what unilateral means? It means the someone (maybe you) takes actions without regard to the agreement or validation of others. You are not unilateral, but you are working on it.

Go back to basics of NMMNG. I don't care if you read it 10 times. Everything you have written, when I read it you reek with the need for validation. We all have that to some degree, but yours is getting your way to becoming your best.

Start over, you missed what you need. I am certain…..

UEMcGill · 2016-06-21T13:39:23+00:00

This isn't about dread, this is about lack of trust on her part. Your early in the plan so saying things like "we can't afford it" doesn't carry water. Sit her down and show her the numbers. My wife had a hard time understanding where the money goes. So I sat her down and showed her. $50 here and $45 dollars there can make a paycheck evaporate.

Get her invested in the plan, tell her "I'm not saying no, but in order to do it we need x amount of money". Then back that shit up. Give her the hotel numbers, the ticket numbers and the regular household budget. Tell her we need to save x amount where does it come from.

Part of being a good captain is selling the mission. She isn't buying what you're selling yet.

SexistFlyingPig · 2016-06-21T18:41:23+00:00

The first action most drivers take when going into a skid makes all of their other actions irrelevant because they simply lose all control of the car.

Since she has separated finances, it sounds like you are in an uncontrolled skid in your marriage. She is already cutting ties and moving on. She doesn't view you as a leader. She views you as someone she can't rely on, someone who can't even handle her mood swings, let alone what the real world throws at the family.

If you knew that the marriage was going to end, what would you do to prepare for it? Yell at her? Ignore her? Work on yourself, your body, and your business?

J_Incognito · 2016-06-21T13:48:46+00:00

No, dread is not working. You are in the land of separate bank accounts, marriage counseling, divorce-talk, bickering, and debating leadership. None of this is positive.

bogeyd6 · 2016-06-21T13:50:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2016-06-21T13:48:26+00:00

In retaliation at some point in the week, she opened her own account and redirected her pay check there.

and besides talk. you did what?

Where, in all this crap, have you lead ANYTHING.

redearththeory · 2016-06-21T14:03:22+00:00

I saw a post here recently talking about different types of value husbands give to their wives. Dread is a stick. What are you giving as a carrot?

ReddJive · 2016-06-21T14:54:55+00:00

She decided we were going to Disney on vacation.

So how did this convo go that led to an argument. When harmful frivolous spending is suggested...and I think it's more than just saying desires outloud, then I like to offer choices.

"Sure we can go, so long as you don't mind putting off school until we recoup the cost. You're call."

You're setting the boundaries as the leader, but delegating the decision. And you already know what the answer will be, but I feel it's good to always offer the choice. But fuck it, maybe it's her way of getting out of going to school.

But then after that you thought it was a good time, when she was riled up, to give a speech about your leadership?

Can you say setting yourself up to fail? Read Sun Tzu's The Art Of War again(assuming you already have with your Wing Chun hobby tie in)... Not that this is a war , but if you're going to engage in something that is seen as an attack by the other party, you may want to follow smarter rules of engagement. That wasn't the time to go on the offense.

In retaliation at some point in the week, she opened her own account and redirected her pay check there.

Actually that could make some things easier. I can be a frugal fuck if necessary. Do you make a lot less? How is the division of bills handled?

FIND A WAY TO USE THIS TO BOLSTER YOUR MAP. If this were me: I'd also make sure to never muddy the accounts again with a joint free-for-all grab bag.

She then declared we are going to marriage counseling

There's various ways of dealing with this:

Go, be polite as fuck. Read the counselor and give the answers you're supposed to. Let her go off. Don't get emotional... she will. State plainly: she doesn't respect you as a person and you only desire was to have a loving relationship with a wife, not a mom.

I mean, think ahead. Counselor's are people (most can't afford actual Psychologists or Psychiatrists so most counselors (paid for by EAPS) are run of the mill Joe/Jill Schmoes who get their qualifications for a myriad of barely acceptable institutions.

They're also easy to read. Prior to rp, >I< suggested my wife and I go. Without really a starting point (since my wife was emoting all over the place..it's hard to vocalize how you're married to a beta bucks) she tried to bring it back down to earth and asked for one example of something I need to fix. She complains I ate all the fig newtons. The therapist asks why couldn't she just buy more since they're 1.50$ at Aldi. This is what sent her into a rage out the door. I said about 10 words the whole time.

Delay and avoid, commit but non-commit to going. Use the intervening time to step up your game.
Nuke: "Nope". Or just don't go. Tell her you know what you want out of the relationship. You don't need someone else to decide for you. If she's got some issues to work out, she should feel free to go.

she feels like we are close to divorce

Nice F.U.D. she's sowing (fear uncertainty and doubt). A tactic of a poor boss. Since she thinks she is one still, I'd have to put it on her yearly review as unacceptable.

Drill into your head: all talk or mention of divorce is simply a power play for who cares more and if it isn't on paper...it means nothing. If she's going to do it, you'll know. And not because she gave you a warning.

Something tells me you're using a fragmentation grenade approach. And it's getting you inconsistent results. You may be pressing too hard in some areas and not enough with others. I would really go back to rung 1 on the dread ladder and make sure not to advance a rung until you KNOW WITH CERTAINTY you need to go to the next rung and that you've ingrained the previous into muscle memory.

Since you're taking a martial art you know : Practice makes permanent. If you are practicing a skill incorrectly , you will do it incorrectly when you need it the most and are relying on reflex. If you're not sure what you're doing is wrong, you go back to foundation work and what you know is right.

Slow is smooth , smooth is fast.

yadda yadda yadda

the_Zambony · 2016-06-21T15:16:20+00:00

My 12 year old son came to us with his understanding that his life will not be complete unless he got to go to DL. Of course, the wife was immediately on board, me not so much. "We will take a look at the possibility but no promises."

A little research of the costs, the current fiscal situation/budget, and a 1 year plan was put in place to raise/save for a family trip to the magic kingdom.

Separate account established. Small percentage of earnings (mine, wife's, kids) diverted. Kids tasked with potential money making ideas/plans to support the trip. Any requests, "Dad can I have/get this?" were met with, "How does this effect our DL trip?" Family garage sale with the kids coughing up their unused toys/possessions, which the whole family participated in the organization, setup, and sale.

Monthly updates/reports were shared to show where we were to plan.

At the end of the year, goals were exceeded such that we could afford to stay on site, had extra to spend some time at Universal Studios, and Cape Kennedy Space Center which was a highlight because happenstance there was a shuttle launch during our stay at Cocoa Beach. The trip was a huge success as the kids "earned" the trip with their "buy in." We had a great time.

Side note: during our time a DL, I saw sooo many other dads there that had that look of why am I here, when can I get the f out-a-here. They were beaten down, exhausted, and miserable.

Bottom line, if you want to be "the captain" then you have to lead. As most things in life, the title is earned, not demanded.

BluepillProfessor · 2016-06-21T15:48:38+00:00

That's when revealed she feels like we are close to divorce, and she has mentioned it twice since then.

Not uncommon.

Is dread working?

Only if you are getting more blowjobs than divorce threats.

she started back full time and working midnights at the hospital she’s stressing out because she doesn’t see me often during the week. She is cooking, cleaning, and trying to be more participatory in the house activities again.

She is "trying" but that doesn't mean the Dread is "working." Do you appreciate how much working the graveyard shift sucks balls- and not in any kind of good way. It is mentally and physically and emotionally taxing in the extreme- even if you get plenty of sleep.

not being on board with the Captain model

Want to bet that she IS on board with having a Captain but she doesn't trust you to sit in that chair?

You CAN build yourself up to a strong, independent person who takes charge of his life and his wife but...we say don't talk about MRP for a reason. In the early going, especially with a yougogirl rebellious wife it may not always go very well.

On the marriage counseling....I am of two spirits. First, the wife scheduled it because she is doing what she knows and understands you are supposed to do to "save" your marriage. She is actually trying in her own way. Second, the wife scheduled it with the main purpose of recruiting professional help to whip her beta boy back into shape.

If you refuse to go you are demonstrating to her that you don't care about the relationship. If you do go, you are being subservient. One possibility that comes to mind if you have been roped into it would be to take the bull by the balls and schedule a session on your own. I don't think I have EVER recommended "marriage counseling" but taking control might be the right course given this history.

2016-06-21T19:49:35+00:00

Seems like it is working...on you. She's giving you dread dude, and it's overt.

Dread is only believable if you have a frame to work from. If you're in her pocket, if you're actually considering going to counseling because she said so, if her making her own account doesnt make you laugh because you know you have shit under control and she'll likely come crawling back when she needs money to go do her nails, then how is losing you to someone else EVER going to pop into her head as a viable scenario.

As an aside...where is any anount of dread by you in this post? It seems to be all about her shit tests. What dread are you giving her?

WhiteTrashKiller · 2016-06-22T01:52:35+00:00

Are there any kids? What the fuck is this Disney vacation. If you don't have children why in the fuckin fuck would you want to spend your hard earned cash at Estrogenville.

If there are no kids and she is talking divorce, tell her to file already so you can continue your awesome life somewhere else.....

SWHR · 2016-06-21T13:49:29+00:00

I know I'm new here, but have a good amount of experience from a leadership point of view.

Ummm....if you have to talk about your leadership (authority) - or worse, ask for it, then you've already lost. What you want is not authority, what you want is influence. I remember a quote from Collin Powell I believe, that he never once had to tell a soldier that what he requested was an order....because everyone that was under him wanted to follow him. That's leadership.

I haven't finished the sidebar yet, but from MMSLP, you need more work. She's threatening divorce, not you. She can do better, you can't. Work on you more; if she feels like she could never do better than you, she'll come back and apologize for ever thinking about leaving.

Artemis_clyde_frog · 2016-06-21T13:44:51+00:00

Ha ha ha ha!

Go read the ring at the top of the page, then tell my why you talked so damned much about how you are 'man now' because you built a second dummy for the house.

Other than talk, and kung fu, I don't know what you do.

do you?

BluepillProfessor · 2016-06-21T13:43:54+00:00

Sounding like a broken record here, but both of you read Brene Brown's First, Kill All the Marriage Counselors.

So maybe I don't get it. Why isn't that book mandatory reading for any MRP husband that presumably has his wife on board as First Mate? Or wanting to see a marriage counselor.

bogeyd6 · 2016-06-21T13:48:32+00:00

Sounds like you may have changed too many things too quickly. At MRP you need to apply external change more slowly. Work on the self-improvement first. I'm going on an assumption here, that you are new. As am I .

I'm not really sure what dread level you used, the captain and first mate convo? Sounds more like an overt contract negotiation to me. You need to go slowly through the levels of dread, there is a thread on here for that. I've started off by making myself more scarce, getting out of the house, doing things for myself away from her and the kids.

I'm also new to Reddit and could not figure out how many posts you have, so forgive me if the above assumption was wrong. I have been lurking here for maybe just over a month.

bogeyd6 · 2016-06-21T14:00:08+00:00

I don't know how you ever thought that overt communication was the key to getting your wife to get on board.

2016-06-21T14:00:59+00:00

She declared you are going to marriage counseling. She wants to go to Disney. What do you want to do?

Tell her you are not going to Disney.... period. If she wants to go, then she goes by herself... OI.

One way to lead is to stop being a follower

Build your Dojo, follow your passions.

enfier · 2016-06-23T04:40:55+00:00

So she can't stay home with her kids, she can't go have fun and she doesn't care to have sex. What value would you say you provide in this relationship?

Title	Is Dread Working?
Author	ReddJive
Upvotes	0
Comments	112
Date	June 21, 2016 1:26 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/4p4kz9/is_dread_working/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/is-dread-working.199843 https://theredarchive.com/post/199843