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Modern Events - Peterson / Newman Debate, and Relevance to MRP

January 26, 2018
40 upvotes

So recently, during Jordan Peterson's book tour he was interviewed by Cathy Newman in the UK, which went viral. Here's the link - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMcjxSThD54

For the lazy, here's the transcript - https://katana17.wordpress.com/2018/01/22/jordan-peterson-debates-cathy-newman-on-the-gender-pay-gap-transcript/

I would encourage you to watch the video, as there are multiple lessons on debate, not losing your cool, redirecting, frame, and so forth.

Key points that stood out:


Newman: Jordan Peterson, you’ve said that men need to, quote, “grow the hell up!” Tell me why.

Peterson: Well, because there’s nothing uglier than an old infant. There’s nothing good about it. It people who don’t grow up, don’t find the sort of meaning in their life that sustains them through difficult times. And they are certain to encounter difficult times. And they’re left bitter and resentful, and without purpose, and adrift, and hostile, and resentful, and vengeful, and arrogant, and deceitful, and of no use to themselves, and of no use to anyone else, and no partner for a woman, and there’s nothing in it that’s good!


Newman: You’re saying there’s a crisis of masculinity. I mean, what do you do about it?

Peterson: You tell, you help people understand why it’s necessary and important for them to grow up and adopt responsibilities. Why that isn’t a “shake your finger and get your act together” sort of thing. Why it’s more like, but why it’s more like a, delineation of the kind of destiny that makes life worth living. I’ve been telling young men, but it’s not, I wasn’t specifically aiming this message at young men to begin with, it just kind of turned out that way.

Newman: So what’s gone wrong, then?

Peterson: Oh God! All sorts of things have gone wrong! I think that, I don’t think that young men hear words of encouragement. Some of them never in their entire lives, as far as I can tell, that’s what they tell me. And the fact that the words that I’ve been speaking, the YouTube lectures that I’ve done and put online, for example, have had such a dramatic impact, is indication that young men are starving for this sort of message. Because like, why in the world would they have to derive it from a lecture on YouTube? Now they’re not being taught that it’s important to develop yourself.


Newman: What’s in it for the women, though?

Peterson: Well what sort of partner do you want? You want an overgrown child? Or do you want someone to contend with, that’s going to help you?

Newman: So you’re saying women have some sort of duty to sort of help fix the crisis of masculinity?

Peterson: It depends on what they want. No I mean, it’s exactly how I laid it out like. Women want, deeply, want men who are competent and powerful! And I don’t mean power in that they can exert tyrannical control over others. That’s not power! That’s just corruption. Power is competence, and why in the world would you not want a competent partner? Well, I know why actually. You can’t dominate a competent partner. So if you want domination, …

Newman: So you are saying women want to dominate, is that what you’re saying?

Peterson: No. I’d say women who have had their relationships with men impaired and who are afraid of such relationships, will settle for a weak partner, because they can dominate them. But it’s a sub-optimal solution.


Newman: Do you think that’s what a lot of women are doing?

Peterson: I think there’s a substantial minority of women who do that. And I think it’s very bad for them. They’re very unhappy. It’s very bad for their partners. Although the partners get the advantage of not having to take any responsibility.

Newman: What gives you the right to say that? I mean, maybe that’s how women want their relationships, those women. I mean, you’re making these vast generalizations.

Peterson: I’m a clinical psychologist.

Newman: Right. So you’re saying you’ve done your research and women are unhappy dominating men?

Peterson: I didn’t say they were unhappy dominating them. I said it was a bad long-term solution. It’s not the same thing.

Newman: Okay, you said it was making them miserable.

Peterson: Yes, it is. And it depends on the time frame. I mean, there can be, there’s intense pleasure in momentary domination. That’s why people do it all the time, but it’s no formula for a long-term, successful, long-term relationship. That’s reciprocal, right? Any long-term relationship is reciprocal, virtually by definition. So, …


There's a lot to unpack here, but generally, think about it. Your wife does not want a overgrown child. She wants someone who is competent. She wants someone who is competent in multiple areas, physical, mental, and so forth. Women DEEPLY want a MAN who are these things. YOU should want to BE these things for yourself. You wonder why your wife is not having sex with you? Are you fat? Leaving all the work around the house to her? Treating her as your maid? Letting her run the ship? Showing her that you are as incompetent as they come? Not showing any leadership at all? Why would a woman want to sleep with that. I say it again - why would a woman want to sleep with that.

What we do here at MRP is we get people to grow up, adopt responsibilities (lifting, learning, etc), and generally become a man who is competent, not just in the bedroom, but in life.

I would even go so far to say as that becoming a competent man is a key factor in your sexual strategy.

And look at the other side - women dominating men IS a bad long-term solution. Lack of frame, drunk captain-ness, saying stuff like "I don't know, what do you want to do?"... just terrible. Successful relationships are reciprocal.

It was a interesting discussion. I'd like to hear further thoughts below.

Bonus Insight 1 - Women make 80% of consumer decisions. I had not thought it was this large.

Bonus Insight 2 - In the search for his latest book, I came across this article: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-valuable-things-everyone-should-know/answer/Jordan-B-Peterson?srid=zI7t - very simple, but worthy of review as well.

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Post Information
Title Modern Events - Peterson / Newman Debate, and Relevance to MRP
Author SteelSharpensSteel
Upvotes 40
Comments 38
Date January 26, 2018 5:57 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/modern-events-peterson-newman-debate-and-relevance.198204
https://theredarchive.com/post/198204
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/7t6au0/modern_events_peterson_newman_debate_and/
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Comments

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He just flat out laughs at her absurd leaps of (non) logic. Out of hand dismissive resolution of stupid shit regardless of the source. You wanted equal treatment, here ya go.

Her inability to separate the concepts of equal opportunity and equal outcome are the true signs of the indoctrinated. She was looking to set a trap with feelings.

His little "Gotcha" at the end was priceless, and I don't even care for JBP.

[–]awydenMarried2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really on topic of this post, but i'm curious what you don't like about JBP?

[–]justpickanyusernameMRP APPROVED9 points10 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I just watched this yesterday. As I was watching him respond to her questions it was like a WISNIFG transcript. He was brilliant.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR[S] 7 points8 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

She was so woefully unprepared. If I had to debate Jordan Peterson, you can rest assured I would be in hibernation studying every single item he's written/posted/videoed for months, and I would have at least some semblance of a plan. She had no plan, and was crushed with logic, reasonableness, and humor. Very impressive what he did.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red4 points5 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

/u/gaylubeoil did this when he went on Samantha Bee. And it paid off splendidly! Know your enemy, know yourself, and you don't walk into a fucking cunttrap

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

He got her to say she was at the bottom of the bukkake. Fucking hilarious.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, I think that assessment is accurate

[–]Gwarh-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Jordan Peterson went on Full Frontal with Samantha Bee?

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

read the comment again

[–]PornConsumerAccount7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That post Newman interview with the little brown guy Peterson deconstructs Newman and brings up the Jungian concept of animus possession. Spot on.

In 15 months Peterson has taught me more about the human condition than I've learned in the previous decade.

[–]PeggedByOwlette1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know, I love the guy. The fact that the whole world rails against him proves to me he's right.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

you’re saying women have some sort of duty

It is misogynist to expect women to do anything.

I would even go so far to say as that becoming a competent man is a key factor in your sexual strategy.

I would say that is the PRIMARY factor in MRP sexual strategy.

[–]thegreasygerman 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

There are more than a few instances in his many videos where a careful listener can almost hear him making basic RP truths. Or at least a listener engaged in a mild amount of projecting such truths can hear an expert about, among others, evolutionary biology, come to similar conclusions about sexual strategy as ours.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. He would be against a lot of aspects of RP but the principles behind it he would acknowledge. But that's why RP is a sexual strategy while he addresses a larger domain of life. But there is a ton of crossover because in large part, things that maximize your quality as a mate tend to also bring real success in life.

At the end of the day, frame and authentic desire are functions or results of self actualization. Which is why there is so much overlap.

One of my favorite aspects is that his audience is so diverse politically as well as religious affiliation. It's a characteristic that really strengthens the universal nature of the principles he highlights.

[–]Tebulus6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Jordan is obviously a pro and shut her down without seeming incompetent or nervous. But this whole video is frustrating to watch because of the platform. The man literally treats people and talks about psychology all day every day and shes wasting a majority of their time trying to get him to somehow admit he is marginalizing women and that the pay gap exists for the wrong reasons. Its such a fucking waste of time.

[–]PBL89[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is a waste of time intellectually yes, but in regards to showing how bad the logic is of the feminist and equal opportunity community is it was well worth it.

[–]Reach180MRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Its such a fucking waste of time.

Yup.

[–]TaipanshimshonMRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

much more interesting to note how the conversation goes. how he handles her. her and his facial expressions. so much to note.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

She was apoplectic throughout the interview, vacillating between outraged and horny. Why do I think that all JP needed to do was isolate her and she would have bent over for him panting.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Healing the world one hate fuck at a time.

[–]DanG32 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Note that at 23:00 she notices that her panties are a bit damp.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

omg lulz thanks for that

[–]TaipanshimshonMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That much was obvious.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red2 points3 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Was about to say this. I an 88will are positive he's either studied PUA, or PUA has studied him.

Amused mastery, broken record, pressure flips. I remember he even tweeted after the interview (before they went after blood) that he thought she had a crush on him.

For every guy who has a nagging, harpy cunt of a wife at home busting his balls, they should watch that video, and see how to deal with a cunt wife without losing your cool

[–]UEMcGillMarried- MRP MODERATOR5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I picked up the link and watched it from the main sub. I'm a fan of JP to begin with, so I thought I'd skim it just to see if he touched any additional talking points. I believe it was one of the best demonstrations of "Zen of Alpha" frame I have ever seen. Better than that kid Corey from Oz.

watch his posture. He's calm and collected. He speaks with his hands open and in front (it's a very calming and reassuring posture). He uses her words against her. He doesn't back down, and uses FOGGING, BROKEN RECORD, and other such tools.

She on the other hand is aggressive. She constantly uses her pen and hand in aggression. She often begged the question. She spoke from feelz not reelz.

Roosh should take a lesson on how to handle his business in front of a camera from Jordan Peterson.

After watching that I said to myself, "From now on if I'm in an argument, I'll just ask 'How would Jordan Peterson act?'"

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

From an age, education and experience perspective, Worthington's "No, I'm not taking off my sunglasses" because they are "famous" is still pretty epic.

[–]Diamondbacking0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

These tools you mention...could you tell me which of the side bar books contains more info on these please?

[–]dipping_toes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I say no, I feel guilty. Great book. Not so much about the title, was better than I thought it was going to be.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I would agree with this as well - he for sure has mastered the techniques in WISNIFG.

He knew precisely how to direct the conversation, how to pressure flip, and he did it all with a smile on his face. He KNEW what he was going in for, and I suspect he prepared accordingly, as he doesn't strike me as a man who is unprepared.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

https://twitter.com/PALE_Primate/status/956862383045083136

I agree. If you look here, you can tell he is very deliberate when he speaks. This alt right guy set him up with flattery, his own language, so he could get him to talk about the jews.

You can see him, working like a mentat on it for like half a minute, before he just apologizes, and does not answer the question. He's no fucking dope.

Another lesson for the henpecked man. Not every question is obliged to be answered

[–]TaipanshimshonMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

this is like bait for me. But its funny. Could have destroyed the dude with contrary facts. But thats not the point. The point is, he was not asking a question. He was looking for an answer.

Guys need to understand this.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I would be surprised if he did, these are things that I think he naturally understands from a perspective of being a clinician and also having that edge underneath his demeanor, in addition to the positive male role models he grew up around.

I do think it's familiar from PUA because like with RP the concepts overlap. I think he has tuned himself over time and most of all, the media attention and his constant analysis of where he went wrong early on has really sharpened him up. A year ago, he wouldn't have navigated this interview as deftly. He's really had to learn how to condense and simplify his message because his normal academia environment doesn't prepare people for media interaction.

If you watch his senate testimony you can see how much more raw he was at the beginning.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I would have thought that, had he not talked about viewing 4chan.

[–]straius0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol, I missed that detail. That would be hilarious if true.

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Look at his research into kekistan. He talks about 4chan. /pol/ specifically.

And he doesn't seem to have a "hello fellow children" attitude towards it. He has to actually read it, for research at least

[–]straius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh yeah, I do remember that now. I thought at first you meant he was more of a frequenter of 4chan. I really got a chuckle imagining him trollin through 4chan posts.

[–]Zehoff1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The priceless moment a militant feminist, tries to go head to head with an intellectual like Jordan Peterson.

He said in a recent Joe Rogan podcast “she really should have got rid of her victim card when she got fast tracked by mummy and daddy to go to Oxford”

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is a sick burn.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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