~ archived since 2018 ~

“The Lag” and Knowing When and Why to Escalate Higher Dread.

May 4, 2018
63 upvotes

Lots of men here refer to the lag time (aka the 1,000 ft rope) from when they started implementing their strategy to when their wives, or more importantly, other women started responding positively. Some report that their wives didn’t respond... but other women did. I’m 2 and a half years into this. A year ago I stopped measuring this by “her” actions and just continued to pursue my own happiness (sometimes selfishly) and to build my strategy with as many options and contingencies as I could. Was there “self improvement”? Ya, there sure as shit was but that wasn’t my overall goal. Building my strategy was. Improving myself was just the bedrock. Or was improvement just a bi-product of my strategy? Eh, another topic for another time.

As a long term MRP member I’m almost hesitant to admit that It wasn’t until a few months ago that I really started noticing consistent positive behavior from the wife. “Consistent” is the key word here. Examples;

She grabs parts of my upper body now during sex and squeezes them while gritting her teeth a bit. Always. She started using more affectionate words and phrases in texts to me. She apologizes for things like not having dinner ready on time or at all some nights. I always praise her efforts in this department because it adds value and she’s a good cook. So when she’s had a rough day and things aren’t all in place, I just say, “no problem baby. Let’s just order something.” Or “what can I help with?” The bloops will love this one based on their post about me and PMs I received about six months ago...She put her hand up around my throat for a brief moment while I was on top of her pounding away a few weeks ago. It wasn’t hard and it wasn’t for long because she caught herself in genuine surprise, covered her mouth and was like, “OMG I just choked you now.” And then she laughed. Surprised even herself. Whenever I put my hand up around her neck, she always says in a half-hearted, playful manner, “don’t choke me..” I realized that she’s mirroring what she likes, and even unconsciously in this instance. We had a good laugh. Uses me as validation in social circles. Photos on Facebook, comments to her friends, etc. Initiating more. Sometimes for sex, sometimes just for affection. Last night she asked if I would cuddle her in bed because she was cold. I still initiate most of the time because we’ll, I’m the man. Sometimes she’ll surprise me which is always nice.

Some women will respond immediately to your strategy and your better self. Others will take months, and still others will take years. Some may never and some may require more than covert dread and game, i.e. a more overt and jarring event to get it through their solipsistic head. See /u/DownVoteforDickPick’s post about his cyclical and recurring jaunt into DL10 to keep his wife reminded of what the expectations are. Some disagreed with this but I say, “it’s a strategy and it’s working.” And it’s assuring you aren’t being taken advantage of in Marriage 2.0. I don’t see any problems.

Occasionally there are debates here about whether DL10-12 type motivators are the right kind of dread to get the sex you want. In other words, is she just putting out now for fear of losing the comfortable lifestyle of a marriage and not because of genuine desire? To that I would say “it depends” and “do you give a shit if it does?” Depends what HER motivations are. Perhaps that sort of ultimatum is the ONLY thing that will cause the tingles in some women. Afterall, society has conditioned men to give up their commitment, time and attention freely and without any regard for our dreams and happiness. The longer you give these up for free, the less respect she’ll have for you. I would argue that this kind of motivation (the “fuck me or fuck you”) might actually increase her desire for you. Probably not at first. At first it will be to keep you and out of fear of blowing up the marriage. But as time goes on and you show congruence in your new steadfast frame to not be a doormat and to not give away your commitment for free, I believe she’ll come to respect you. With that respect comes attraction. All women are different. You just have to decide if that sort of strategy is going to make YOU happy. For some guys it may be the right move.

Regardless, As we always say, it’s not about her and it’s not about sex with her... it’s about your strategy to get the sex you want. That could be with her, with a plate, with her and a plate or with a new girl(s) in a post DL12 life. But remember if it is with the wife, she may be slow to come around. Mine is. I say “is” because I think I’m still finding how deep this hole goes, even after 2+ years at this. Maybe it lasts and gets better, maybe it won’t. My prosperity doesn’t depend on it.

All these things are small and incremental. It requires some patience and some distance from your start point to really notice them but for most of us, they are there if you open your eyes. There will be ebbs and flows and setbacks. If the overall progression is in the right direction, even if slowly, then it’s good.

Two plus years, gentlemen. Be mindful of the lag but also be able to recognize if your wife or LTR is unable or unwilling to properly respond to your value when other women are showing interest. That’s the linchpin for when to execute higher levels of your strategy. She only gets first crack at a sex life with you, not unlimited control over it.

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Post Information
Title “The Lag” and Knowing When and Why to Escalate Higher Dread.
Author JDRoedell
Upvotes 63
Comments 45
Date May 4, 2018 1:23 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/the-lag-and-knowing-when-and-why-to-escalate.197992
https://theredarchive.com/post/197992
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/8gz7fg/the_lag_and_knowing_when_and_why_to_escalate/
Comments

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

Yes, the lag is real. I will add from my experience:

  • the longer things have been bad, the longer it will take.

  • Age matters, as we get older, change takes longer

  • Health matters, health issues for a spouse slows everything down.

Agree with some other points you make:

  • There is little or no consistent improvement at first

  • Once the improvement starts, it gains in both intensity and consistency.

I remember a similar post by u/UEMcGill and his point that he was FOUR YEARS into RP. The rabbit hole does go deep.

As long as there is enough improvement to suit you:

Patience and perseverance is required

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 4 points5 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

I remember a similar post by u/UEMcGill and his point that he was FOUR YEARS into RP. The rabbit hole does go deep.

I remember that post too. It obviously stuck with me.

As long as there is enough improvement to suit you:

This is key. Every man will have a different threshold for this. Run your strategy with your threshold or benchmark for happiness in mind.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Many of us have to spend a lot of mental energy making the decision to stay or go. In my view, it is the hardest decision we have to make. No one can walk in another man's shoes enough to make that decision accurately for him.

Yet, on this sub, we are constantly asked our opinion over and over again. It is far easier to tell them to NEXT and be wrong most of the time than to carefully consider it and be wrong less often.

[–]redwall928 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

The mental energy devoted to this decision can be hugely draining. Seems like general consensus here is that if you're spending this much energy to decide to stay or go, then the best choice is probably to go. Problem is ... general consensus goes out the window when it becomes personal. And personal it is ... highly personal.

Stay plan = go plan, right? The way I see it ... this decision that is so draining (when constantly revisited) is something to lean into and a good place to work on frame (that is most likely lacking). The drain, the tiredness, and sometimes the ache that accompanies this decision ... these are dry places. If you can build a frame here, then hopefully you can maintain that frame anywhere. Best sparring partner available for building frame.

The asking for opinion from the sub is a waste of time IMO. The decision can only be made by one. Swapping notes/experiences is great, but the personal decision is simply that.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The mental energy devoted to this decision can be hugely draining

The constant decision was hard on me.

First I set Deadlines for Stay/Go. If she fits in MY plan AT THAT TIME, I set a new deadline. The problem was, when the deadlines came and I spent too much energy on making a decision. Then repeat.

I no longer set deadlines. I have come to trust that there will be no doubt when the time comes. When it comes to that point, I have the Go Plan ready, but put away from ongoing thought process. I spend my energy now on the Stay Plan. Same plan, different view point, and the energy is better used.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

this is the approach i have adopted too.

when it's time i'll know

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Stay plan = go plan

Yes. That makes it easier.

[–]simbarlionMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Fwiw too many guys are flagellating over the mechanics of this - " lawyer up" etc.

Once you make the 'stay plan same as go plan' clear in your head, the rest is just process.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Once you make the 'stay plan same as go plan' clear in your head, the rest is just process.

..therefore, the advice to "Next Her" is irrelevant in many cases.

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think one of the better pieces of advice I've seen about people deliberating on stay/go is go see a divorce lawyer NOW. Make a plan for what things might look like. If you're going to get alimony raped, start a 5 year plan to get your wife working; maybe she will come around by then when she is making her own money and having work responsibilities, or maybe she will still be a horrible mess, but one who can stand her own two feet with less of your money. Either way you win. Especially if you're getting sex elsewhere anyway.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Many of us have to spend a lot of mental energy making the decision to stay or go.

What I spend a lot of that mental energy on is the question: Am I satisfied at the moment because she improved? Or have I hamstered myself to a lower threshold of acceptance?

And it's opposite: Am I unsatisfied because...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Properly framed questions, get better answers.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's all about Frame. No one can judge a man if he is in his Frame.

Still...sometimes doggedly sticking to a plan can be ego protection. Plans can change.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Am I satisfied at the moment because she improved? Or have I hamstered myself to a lower threshold of acceptance?

I wonder this sometimes too. It helps if I take a quick assessment of the past few days and my present state; am I in a good place? Happy? If yes, then I’m good. Is something not sitting well or am I restless? If yes, then I probably hamstered a lower threshold

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I can be summarized as; AWALT but each woman will respond (or not) differently to a man making himself and his happiness his mental point of origin.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly this.

All women are attracted to Alphas. But not all women are attracted to the same Alpha.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True. This where the importance of “other women” comes in. Oneitis can kill.

[–]incubar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m learning patience and the long game of MRP from lifting. Quick, ego-boosting gains have been followed by plateaus, injuries, deloads. Whatever lifting goal deadlines I had get readjusted. The beta boy part of me is disappointed, frustrated. The man in me is stepping up. Well overdue. Perseverance, commitment, progress. 1 year is apparently just the beginning in fitness. Same goes for my frame. I stand on the shoulders of RP giants.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All this is like lifting, the longer you’ve been at it the slower and smaller the gains. There’s such a thing as “Newbie RP gains” just like newbie lifting gains.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

BPP mentions 1 month per each year of marriage, however people have to remember that those are just guidelines. Sometimes it can be shorter. Sometimes it takes longer.

This also reminded me of the J10 post where he mentions that "most men don't want to divorce their wife... they just want them to get better", which really is saying that the MEN are the ones that need to get better in the first place.

Small changes. Slowly improve. I think I've only seen a a handful of posts on here where the guy is doing the work right and taking it slow, and complaining that it is slow but knowing he has to take it slow.

If you keep making these small changes every day... just think of where you will be in 2 years. Oh wait, that's the OP.

Good one.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely. Nothing of value happens quickly or without effort.

“most men don’t want to divorce their wife.”

You also have to look at the opposite of this. I would argue that most wives don’t want to divorce either. Men need to use that to their advantage. If you aren’t there yet, then MRP can show you what to practice to get to a place where your wife also doesn’t want a divorce... putting you back in a position of dominance. It’s one of Rollo’s iron rules, I believe.... being the one who needs the other less.

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would argue that most wives don’t want to divorce either. Men need to use that to their advantage.

It really helps if your wife has one or two friends who left their husband and discovered how much life sucks as a 40-ish divorced mom. They can find plenty of cock, but good luck on finding the commitment they had come to expect to be freely given.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. Women have been lied to by feminism too and this belief that they can still “have it all” post wall and post divorce is one of those narratives that hurt women also.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The beauty of this process is the slowness. The effects compound and create momentum exponentially.

What I really like here is once the changes become habit and get internalised we get a new perspective.

Then we are left with that perennial question “Do I still want this life, relationship or vocation?”

And here we find that thing we tout but many of us have avoided: being the ultimate judge of own actions and desires.

When that started to dawn on me I realised that the validation I was seeking from my wife and those I admired was my Achilles heel.

There’s no hiding place in MRP for false alliances and rationalisations.

That scares the shit out of me...and liberates me at the same time.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Some women will respond immediately to your strategy and your better self. Others will take months, and still others will take years. Some may never and some may require more than covert dread and game, i.e. a more overt and jarring event to get it through their solipsistic head.

Please listen to this warning guys. No need to go Rambo. You don't even have to dodge bullets- because when you're ready, you won't have to.

as time goes on and you show congruence in your new steadfast frame to not be a doormat and to not give away your commitment for free, I believe she’ll come to respect you. Dread is like building a brick shithouse. How do you do it? One brick at a time.

What DON'T you do? Build a couple feet of bricks around yourself and then start making demands while you stand surrounded by broken bricks and mortar dust.

It takes time to build that structure which is your frame. Once you have your walls (boundaries) and are protected that is when the wommminz start pounding on the door demanding you let them in. Whether the woman knocking is your wife or some random who catches your eye I recommend you do let her in, fill her full to the ears with thick, clotted cream, and then throw her ass out. She is going to have to do more than lay back a single time before she gets back inside your Shitter.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Professor has spoken. Well said

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good post.

“I think I’m still finding how deep this hole goes”

Yep. That’s in everything. Similar to chess. You learn the moves, basic strategy, openings , combinations, tactics, mating nets, ends game, playing over old games, internalize all the information, long term planning and strategy, then you start seeing things you never saw before and realize that you don’t know shit. Start seeing more and more layers - like seeing extra frames per second then other people. It’s the fucking matrix.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The longer you give these up for free, the less respect she’ll have for you. I would argue that this kind of motivation (the “fuck me or fuck you”) might actually increase her desire for you.

Amazing what having respect for yourself does to motivate others. Without a proper mental point of origin, a man is always LARPing and it reeks of inauthenticity.

[–]Steve_rebooting5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I can confirm that 4 months into lifting my wife has started to squeeze my pecks and arms during sex and she is clearly enjoying it. Everyone once in a while she will just start poking my chest and arms... as if to see if they are real (7+ years of no muscles/lifting to 5-6 days a week lifting heavy)

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Carry on!

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

5-6 days a week lifting heavy

Take a rest day bro, and make sure you're eating plenty. I pray that you're at least mixing up muscle groups on consecutive days.

[–]Steve_rebooting1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Compound lifts 5x5 (two different types) and then two isolation (3x12) - None of the same muscles 2 days in a row

Not lifting to failure and seeing great gains. Taking 2-3 rest days whenever I start to feel some soreness or not 100%

[–]An_Actual_Politician10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm currently operating at DL11, so definitely on the controversial side of this discussion. Not that I give a shit because she cheated on me, but the moment she started to suspect that I was seeing other women, she suddenly wanted to work things out.

I added a few of these women as FB friends, which I'm sure she noticed. A couple are SB8s, one obviously prettier than my shitty wife, who has a very pretty face but a disaster of a body once the clothes are off because she lost a lot of weight before having two kids. That leads to a pretty big overestimation of her SMV at first glance.

Anyway, I've been getting the sex I want since going full RP about 4 months ago. Some with plates but a lot with the wife, too. She squeezes my muscles during sex and I'm much rougher with her now, which gets mixed results depending on the position. I prefer dishing out some pain after they've gotten off a couple times though. Makes sure they remember who fucked them when they walk the next day.

A couple days ago I ratcheted up the directness and texted the wife that I wanted my dick in her mouth while I was working from my home office and the youngest was napping. She came right down, got on her knees and I nutted in her mouth. A good lesson in you don't get what you don't ask for.

So DL11 is working for me at the moment. No guilt or regret given the circumstances, although I wouldn't have any regardless.

Putting this out there since I'm sure there are others here in similar situations. Don't be afraid to break the sound barrier on dread game.

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's kind of funny when you think about it. A lot of guys here belittle TRP's strategy to "just NEXT the bitch". But for real, beyond dread level 5, what are levels 6-12 doing? They're getting you to just next the bitch! The only difference is the timelime this happens on (and the known idea of lag this collective of notes has revealed) and the fact that we will stay in a marriage if she turns around.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The important distinction for the “just next her” advice for us (MRP) is that we have exposed ourselves to asymmetrical levels of risk by getting married. We can’t next her without “paying the piper”, so to speak. So we have to go about it more calculating and with a well rounded strategy.

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

what are levels 6-12 doing? They're getting you to just next the bitch!

A contrary view is that they are making you better. Getting better at flirting with attractive women is a life skill. Being able to hold a conversation with attractive women WHILE YOUR WIFE IS RIGHT THERE is the next skill. Etc. Managing multiple sexual relationships simultaneously is definitely a skill.

I certainly wouldn't recommend nexting her and dating on the open market as a divorced, single man until you've already gotten yourself in peak condition by sparring up through the levels.

[–]ExploringMyselfToday0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

You seem to take a balanced and healthy approach to the MRP stuff. I have begun exploring this and really appreciate the areas that are about self-improvement and feel that perhaps that's where it's greatest value go. I question the value of the manipulation and gaming as I feel that it breeds deceit which although maybe a powerful move and mainnet the results the readers of this subreddit are seeking may not be healthy for you, for the relationship, for your wife, for your family. I don't know I definitely have some problems that are allegedly resolved through this and I came here trying to resolve those problems. I appreciate people like you that appeared to take a light and gradual approach focused on self-improvement rather than working someone over. Thanks for posting

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

appreciate the areas that are about self-improvement and feel that perhaps that's where it's greatest value go.

Self Improvement is great but don't miss the whole point of the Red Pill.

  1. Don't let me shock you but Men and women are different.

  2. Women lie about what turns them on in order to keep men in the Matrix.

  3. Women say they want "kind/sweet/helpful" men but this is a lie to keep/make them Beta and servile, desperate for any female validation and without sexual options.

  4. Teh truth is that women want strong, Alpha men who dominate them as evidenced by 50 Shades, and every ronmance novel ever written.\

Part of "self-improvement" is opening your eyes and seeing the Matrix and the lies so lift, work out, get huge, get confidence, DNGAF- but if you forget the meaning of TRP you will end up back in the Matrix as a sexless plowhorse sooner or later.

[–]ExploringMyselfToday-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get it. And I don't disagree with much of what you're saying. I think the strong language such as lies and stuff like that maybe an overstatement and create an adversarial sort of condition. I don't think it has to be like that. I think it's highly possible that they're just not familiar with themselves enough to be able to tell the "truth". I think that conceptually they're not lying I think in practice they probably crave exactly what you're saying. It makes sense. Anyway I didn't come to crap on your thread or ideology I just came to slap a high five to the Op for a posting on the topic that I could better relate to.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Glad you got something out of it but don’t mistake my advice about lag and patience as an excuse to cherry pick only the parts of the red pill that sit well with you. It’s all manipulation when you get down to brass tax. Everything in life is. How overt the manipulation is depends on what you want and who you’re dealing with.

Gaming? Absolutely necessary. It’s not evil. It’s arguably not even manipulative. Do you think the women or even men in your life have ever manipulated you? I bet they have. You think your wife is manipulating you? I bet she is. Manipulation... think of it instead as how an unplugged man makes the best of his interaction with women, gets pussy and makes sure he’s not being taken advantage of.

You need to keep reading. You’re still a servant to the feminine imperative. Let that pill dissolve some more or you’ll be just another beta who isn’t seeing his full potential. It’s your decision.

[–]ExploringMyselfToday0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

So I am being botted or modded to shit but I like the dialogue. Apparently I belong in /r/askmrp which I was not aware of. I rocked manipulation when I was younger to the extent I could have been a contender.... But found there was a cost. I have also found that an absence is inappropriate, and struggle with moderation. MRP does not seem to promote moderation which makes it a natural fit. Thanks for the post.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

what do you mean by this? if you have something meaningful to add this the right place. if you have a basic question, or want to shit post than yes AskMRP.

I rocked manipulation . . . cost

so you were being a little sneaky cunt? that is not what we advocate here. it's not about her or manipulating her. it's about you, what you want, and your mission.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Looking at what he posted just on this thread, I suspect either a woman or a concern troll......

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

new account under 3 days old. all posts get auto removed until approved.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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