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Wife Going Out To Socialize With Men

December 13, 2018
76 upvotes

Last week's post about a wife going to drinks with coworkers struck a cord with me because I noticed 99 comments and 2 distinct camps. I added my 2 cents but later realized the logic of the other side. To summarize, a wife has been going out with male ex-coworkers to get drinks. Husband wants to know if he needs to draw a hard line or let it go and play aloof.

I was staunchly in the draw a hard line and don't back down camp. I see it as a sign of disrespect, and once a man loses that respect, it's difficult to recover. Now, after following the thread I see the strategy of playing aloof so the underlying problem can be addressed first, which is the lack of feelz from her husband and the desire to get it from a group of fun-loving, partying male co-workers. Of course she could just want attention from every guy she meets, but let's just go with the more probable scenario that her husband isn't providing enough stimulus and she's bored.

What struck me in the comments was the tendency for both camps to criticize the other side instead of realizing they both could be valid depending on the circumstance.

Play out a couple scenarios because the wife/husband dynamic determines which course is more effective.

Scenario One: I tell my wife if she continues disrespecting me with these guys then it will jeopardize my monogamy which is already hanging on by a thread. Tell her if she wants to open the pandoras box of drinking with the opposite sex, then let's do it but don't get hurt feelings. Result: Either she calls my bluff and we now have a semi-open relationship, she stops seeing the dudes, feels guilty and has loyalty to her husband, or she still sees them but behind my back.

Scenario Two: I play aloof and crack a few jokes but make an effort to add some feelz back in the relationship. Plan some trips, have a few date nights, and generally be more fun to be around so she gets that validation from me. Either she stops boozing it with dudes because I'm once again Mr. Goodtimes until she gets bored again, or she now double-dips and gets entertained by both groups and I really have to work on DNGAF.

Wrapping up, my conclusion was that you know which approach is best for your relationship. I could also see using both at different times - acting aloof until she crosses some line like being out past midnite then going ultimatum.

The point is that I didn't see anyone in the comments mention that we're all on the same team working for the same results and sometimes it's just two different but equally effective strategies. The discourse can turn into the Democrat v Republican or Christian v Atheist debates where one takes a stand and anyone who disagrees is a moron. Most of the topics of MRP are black and white and listed clearly on the sidebar. But the gray area does exist and it would be beneficial to identify those early and keep it constructive. I'm here to improve. I can't learn and change if I think my opinion is always and only correct.

Also, coming up on my 1 year MRP anniversary and wanted to say thanks for the help.

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Post Information
Title Wife Going Out To Socialize With Men
Author coachdad8
Upvotes 76
Comments 76
Date December 13, 2018 3:20 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/wife-going-out-to-socialize-with-men.197533
https://theredarchive.com/post/197533
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/a5pkh6/wife_going_out_to_socialize_with_men/
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Comments

[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED98 points99 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Don't worry, Daddy's here to sort this all out.

I appreciate that you are spending good time thinking about things more than rote parroting of battle cries. Part of why you see "divisions" is that everyone is at a different stage in their journey and additionally each man's journey has a destination that is unique to him. I will say though, when you are learning to crawl the movements that make sense at that point are drastically different from what makes sense when you walk, and different from running. As you develop higher levels of understanding and meet your goals you will see that your "right answer" from the past was right for you at that time, but with a deeper understanding you can see the bigger picture.

On to your post:

It isn't a black and white issue.

I was staunchly in the draw a hard line and don't back down camp. I see it as a sign of disrespect

The most important word in that sentence is "I". The rest literally doesn't matter. Once you are fully woke you will see that a man is his only critic. The things that you find disrespectful are different from any other person, and what they think has no bearing on you. You control only one person on this planet, which includes what rules those around you must follow to be allowed in your presence. As such, in this example, if you feel that a married woman should not be seen out drinking with other men, and this is a boundary (not a preference, an important distinction), then you make that boundary known.

The biggest issue isn't deciding what behaviors you desire for the people around you, that is the easy part. The hard part is differentiating between boundaries and preferences, or said another way, needs and wants. You inadvertently stumbled across the difficulty that men have with boundaries. Don't state a preference as a boundary, it is as simple as that.

Either she calls my bluff and we now have a semi-open relationship, she stops seeing the dudes, feels guilty and has loyalty to her husband, or she still sees them but behind my back.

You said it right there, "my bluff". This is how men fail in a hurry, and why the "No mateguarding" battle-cry is a decent quick catchall answer. Why? Here is what goes down when Beta Bob "mateguards": He tells her he doesn't want her going out to the bar with men (because he is afraid she will leave him). She tells him all the reasons its fine and proceeds to argue with him, call him controlling and needy, etc. He gets mad, throws a hissy fit, calls her a cunt, ends up on the couch stewing. She goes out as planned, now with a fire under her butt to find a man who isn't such a pussy. Effectively Beta Bob has used his fears and insecurity to bring his fears to life.

The issue at hand is that a boundary is only real if it is held firm by a man with conviction. A leader always makes his intentions clear and NEVER bluffs. Period. When you are doing this right you will never have arguments with your wife. You might have a discussion about a topic you disagree, but not an argument. Arguments are two people working to determine who is the alpha in that dynamic.

If I tell my wife that something is a boundary she now has the choice to observe or disregard that boundary. If the latter my reaction is already set in stone. This is the crux of Outcome Independence and Overt vs Covert contracts. If I decide that a woman who has the privilege of being called my wife has certain requirements for her behavior, then that is that. Any woman who hopes to hold that position knows what is required. She can get off the bus at any time.

I play aloof and crack a few jokes but make an effort to add some feelz back in the relationship

Here we are again, you're accidentally solving the puzzle for us. "Play" is a perfect choice of words here. Your option 2 describes most men, especially those starting off. Guys are still in her frame, thinking about what she is thinking about, trying to win at this epic chess match they see as a relationship. The only way to win is not play the game in the first place. Most of the "no mateguarding" responses continue on to define the way her feelz are going to be as a response to "acting aloof" etc. The fear and insecurity is still there, but now they are using MRP tools to "fake it till you make it." Nothing wrong with that, we all start somewhere, but realize that when I say "MY wife doesn't go out drinking with other men" it has zero to do with mate guarding, and everything to do with the fact that I get to define the behaviors of others that reflect on me or affect me.

Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I can dodge bullets?

Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.

Dodge bullets: Modify your behavior to give your wife the impression that you are not worried about her leaving you, which makes her feel that you must have value and options.

When you are ready: Don't modify your behavior one bit, you ARE high value and you DO have options. ALL of your needs are met, period.

sometimes it's just two different but equally effective strategies

"Dodge bullets" is a strategy with some non certain level of "effectiveness". "You won't have to" is not a strategy, it is a way of life. It is 100% effective, period. My marriage is awesome, and what is probably most surprising to many is that once you are there the stress, conflict and maneuvering just melts away.

The first step is differentiating between your wants and needs. Then it is ensuring that your needs are met. Improving yourself is where the hard work comes in, which gets you more of your wants. For a guy starting out, his needs list might be incredibly small, that is fine. With time he will likely start to move more things into that column.

I know this was long, feel free to ask questions for clarification. Also, I suggest you look at my post Mirror Image of Alpha/Beta Behavior to get more understanding of how the end game of MRP isn't where you have to mastermind every interaction, it is quite the opposite.

[–]weakandsensitive17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great points.

Lots of newbies fuck up thinking their wants are needs. No bb - you're still just a whiny bitch.

[–]coachdad89 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Solid points. But reasonable to mention that most men, including myself, are no where even close to the level of stoicism. It looks good on paper but it doesn't translate into real life easily. Of course on an anonymous sub we all get to be unemotional baddasses who can walk away at any time as the "stay plan is the go plan," but shit hits the fan I bet most guys even on this sub would struggle. I've been in situations where my advice given was not the advice taken.

Essentially your mindset is the ideal we're working towards and it's articulated well. My 2 scenarios were the common thinking process not the ideal and your comment filled the gap. Admittedly, if my marriage encountered this issue I wouldn't be able to just slam down some ultimatum and walk away emotionless, I'm just too invested with 16 years and 4 kids.

Edit: But like you mention, after 16 years I haven't had to deal with this issue because the foundation is solid, frame is established, and Capt/1st Mate are focused on raising a family and enjoying life without the need for this petty bullshit from either party. Internally the work continues.

[–]johneyapocalypseTold Death to Fuck Off - MRP is easy mode8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You'd be surprised what you can achieve when you have no choice but to achieve it.

Stoicism is within you. It's like a muscle. You build it with practice.

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Most men are faggots that deserve to be cheated on.

Don't be most men.

[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe that Risk vs. Reward is one of the core functions that affect the behavior of all higher cognition creatures. It is closely tied with nearly every decision or action that we do. It is deeply ingrained, so we may not think about it actively, just like balance, but it is there.

When you think of a human's behaviors as a simple algorithm constantly trying to optimize its situation through Risk vs Reward analysis, you shouldn't really hold it against a person for making any decision, even if it upsets or hurts you.

Don't be mad the she cheated, you can't control her. All you can control is the inputs to her R&R processing centers. If your SMV is much lower than her's, you act like a pussy, and she has options, well, what do you expect?

[–]Tek_Analyst1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The fact you got downvoted for this says everything.

[–]jimmyb2071 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes it does. He upset a lot of faggots.

[–]coachdad80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Upvoted!

[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Sun Tzu:

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

You are hitting on the idea that you need to first become fully aware of your boundaries and how you will respond if they are violated. After that there is no more thinking or stress about it. I've learned this through business negotiation, but it applies to all social interactions really. The only real job is for you to determine your position and clearly state that to the other party. You never control them, you never control your outcome, but you ALWAYS control your acceptable risks vs rewards.

Keep in mind that when I say it is a boundary it doesn't mean that it is automatically next. It does mean that there will be consequences, and if through proper guidance and correction these boundaries are continually breached then it could progress to next.

Admittedly, if my marriage encountered this issue I wouldn't be able to just slam down some ultimatum and walk away emotionless

Then the real problem here would have been you, since you miscategorized a want as a need.

[–]Cascadesrising0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Keep in mind that when I say it is a boundary it doesn't mean that it is automatically next. It does mean that there will be consequences, and if through proper guidance and correction these boundaries are continually breached then it could progress to next.

Can you give an example of a progression of consequences up to Next?

[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If a hard boundary is continually violated, I offer support and guidance to set her up for success and she still continually fails, and once I have lost confidence in my first mate, it would be over.

Everything is a case by case basis of course, so the speed in moving to next will depend a lot on the breach.

For reference, my usual go-to consequence for small infractions is a spanking.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMRP MODERATOR6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have your upvote.

[–]Tek_Analyst1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You basically just summed up everything that I feel as a requirement to have a woman in my life statically.

See, the issue was that I was far too young and not ready to implement this mindset. I see that now, and without even realizing it, that same mindset works perfectly. Because of what you said, it’s not a mindset. It is in fact my requirement. They see it clear as day.

All the stress, mateguarding, and hamstering I used to do is gone. It’s so interesting how simple it really is. I’ve tried to tell people this in other comments that are in their journey, but no one has ever put it as perfectly as I just read it now with yours.

[–]alpha-zach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit. This is good.

[–]threekindsofluckyGrinding14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You're right in that it's not a black and white scenario, however, it may be so for some men.

Context, in my mind, has a large role to play in this particular scenario. And by context, I mean relationship background. For instance, in my relationship, I often spend time with ex-coworkers, both male and female (sometimes both together, sometimes separate). It's generally drinks and laughs, and is generally not from a 'keeping in touch for future work' scenario, although it certainly doesn't hurt.

As such, if my wife was invited to work drinks with her ex-colleagues (all men or otherwise), it would be pretty ridiculous of me to say 'no that's not wifely behaviour'. I would generally be comfortable with her doing so. I also know its highly unlikely she's doing it for the feelz that she isn't getting from me. And that's context.

I know other men here have a rule along the lines of 'none of that shit thanks'. And their circumstances, the way they live their lives, how their relationship is structured will make that congruent.

That is why any advice needs to be considered within your own context, whilst still maintaining the bigger picture of 'is this how I would want my relationship to be if I wasn't a giant bitch'. Congruence is everything.

[–]Cam_Winston212 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Context, in my mind, has a large role to play in this particular scenario.

Yep. Someone in sales, where meeting clients/vendors is part of the nature of the biz, will have socialization to be one of the key aspects of the job. A school teacher, who gets off work around 4:00 and would have to have already made the decision that she's going to go home, get dressed up, then walk out the door & leave the husband that evening in order to go have drinks with other teacher(s) who happen to be men. One would be meeting with clients, the other looks a lot like a date. Context would be key between the former & the latter.

I guess the takeaway is not to be the husband in the latter.

[–]MindfulStoic2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also agree on the context point. In some industries that kind of socializing is not only normal, but necessary.

The red flag to me is when a wife suddenly starts wanting to do drinks with co-workers without any historical precedence or work related reason for it.

[–]Fogghhat2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your correct that congruence is king. But context can be another matter. Remember a lot of guys are here because they accepted a context that was fucking terrible. We joke that they have aspergers, but when you make it to 30, 40 or even 70 and it turns out that your gut and “the flow” completely missed what was happening, you need some hard and fast rules to power through.

[–]grumpieroldman14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You have no leverage in scenario 1. That's why 2 is the TRP position.
But TRP is a bunch of pussy-whipped, feminist, hypergamy-loving gumps.
(e.g. Normalization of casual sex was a goal of feminism.)

IDGAF does not mean you don't give a fuck about "X".
It specifically means you do what is right or necssary regardless of the consequences. What you DNGAF about is the consequences of being "a man".
e.g. You don't say what you really think or feel because you're scared of the consequences.

Now apply that here but do not forget the nature of women.
You cannot go to her and "beg her to stop".
If she's decided to to go out on date then you go out on a date.
Oh no but that might end the marriage?! IDGAF.
If you can't land a date ... I guess we found our problem.

The reason why 1 doesn't work is because she has already unilaterally decided to crack it open.
If you then come in and starting talking about it like it's your idea you will look like a moron in her eyes.

The only thing "being aloof" does is give her tacit approval to cuckold you but that's the standard term of affairs for a TRP gump. Every slut they're fucking is fucking +10 other dudes. What the TRP crowd is really doing here is behaving like they approval of her slut lifestyle which a critically element to pulling sluts. That makes the slut feel comfortable enough with them that they come back for a retap later. Sluts won't hang around you or fuck you if you judge the shit out of them (as you ought to).

[–]innominating6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Be the guy that she knows can go out drinking with women with higher SMV than her. Don’t tell her, show her through your behavior and let her see other women react to you, once you are that guy you won’t have these problems.

[–]surfsusaPreacher0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly!

[–]r24017 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are all hilariously off the mark. Fuck how your actions will be interpreted, by the woman, by other men or society. Fuck whether you are justified in forbidding your wife to have a drink, what the context of those drinks are etc.

It's like this, some people leave the tv on when they sleep and some don't. Some like to leave some asmr playing, I dunno, whatever. If you want the tv on, great, you are a man, turn it on. If you want it off, also great, you are a man and that is your prerogative.

If you instruct the tv to turn off or on and it does the opposite of what you want, then you have a DEFECTIVE tv, and you simply buy a new one. TV's are replaceable and when you buy a new one there's probably some cool new technology the old one didn't have (I just got a new 4k, hdr, really sweet). There is no discussion of how the tv interprets your "tactics" or which will produce the desired result most efficiently. Holy shit any such discussion is beneath you, as a man.

The desired result is whatever you desire! If the tv doesn't comply it is DEFECTIVE. If you are afraid the tv will take all your assets if you toss it then you have bad lawyers and/or were given bad advice before buying it. Once you view a wife as no different than the tv you want to leave on or turn off, or maybe have on a sleep timer or what have you, then you have truly ascended.

[–]rAFCdadHUSBAND3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't see the original post, however let me say this: both sides are not only reasonable, there is a meta level here we should consider.

How far along the AWALT line are you? The bitter, divorce raped and cheated on guy will fall into the "no never" camp more likely than a guy who is 2 years into a happy marriage and hasn't been hurt. Yet.

The 'Recently quit pro football to go into international banking" guy will probably be relaxed about trusting his wife, too.

So it is with considering the logic in each argument, but also consider who is making the argument. There is no objective human.

[–]SuperCrazy076 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From the OP you linked it sounds like the guys wife was meeting ex coworkers for a happy hour (makes me think it was earlier in the evening) and it was an unusual thing for them that happened once over a period of months.

Sheesh, there has been a lot of analysis for a pretty normal thing.

My wife did this last week (well it was 2pm drinks and she had 2 beers and stayed for an hour and a half). She hadn't seen these guys since April. Could she have been sucking dick that whole time? I guess. Was her reason for going that I'm not manly enough or providing tingles? I suppose. But, is that the LIKELY reason? No.

Turns out she saw some old coworkers and when she told them about the new consulting company she started, they gave her some work this week.

Not everything needs to be seen through a "is she unhappy and going to cheat lens"? You'll drive yourself crazy and push her into cheating.

Note: If she was doing this regularly, was gone late at night, and for long hours that would be different. But, that isn't what the OP was asking about.

[–]whitecapwater4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

YOU ARE JUST A PUSSY!

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“we're all on the same team working”

Give less fucks.

The system is designed like that on purpose- to pit each other against one another, to divide and conquer, keeps us from becoming too powerful. Will always have discourse. It feeds off the negative energy. Half of the population are NPCs anyway following a script.

Worrying about yourself.

[–]Synthetic_Citizen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The one requirement for success in this kind of situation is probably the hardest to come to terms with, you absolutely have to be willing to walk from the relationship without looking back. Women have a notorious dogs sense for finding weakness in a mans frame, this includes boundaries set, if you dont truly mean it she wouls only need a quick prodding to expose your bluff and lose even more respect for you.

Romance is reliant on a high level of respect, there can be no romance if there is no respect. There are cases where she has already lost too much respect and will look forward to the day you walk, and even cross your bou daries to further taunt you. Either way, in order to achieve a positive outcome it is required that you accept that the relationship is already over. This gives you the core basis of outcome independance required to achieve the gains you want. Because you cannot negotiate romance where there is lack of respect. Less her respect for you and more your respect for yourself above her. Self respect, assurance.

[–]arkyleslyfox5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Scenario 2 means you're rewarding her bad behavior

[–]weakandsensitive[M] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hate MGTOW faggots.

They are the personification of "Don't be unattractive."

[–]BigGayGainz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only if you don't want her. Otherwise, take what you want and pay for it.

[–]NoFaithInThisSub3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Scenario One: I tell my wife if she continues disrespecting me with these guys then it will jeopardize my monogamy which is already hanging on by a thread. Tell her if she wants to open the pandoras box of drinking with the opposite sex, then let's do it but don't get hurt feelings. Result: Either she calls my bluff and we now have a semi-open relationship, she stops seeing the dudes, feels guilty and has loyalty to her husband, or she still sees them but behind my back.

Ok, so say she buckles, goes back on her choice, but has opened this semi-open relationship, would you then redraw your steps and say "sure lets go back to pre pandoras box" or do you go "too late baby, im hanging out with other broads"?

[–]InChargeManMRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is all way too much thinking about what she is thinking.

[–]NoFaithInThisSub1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

right, but when you open the can of worms, men don't go back, we're not women to hamster and go "never happened".

I'll go with assuming who cares what she says type situation.

[–]eddielovett6 points7 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

How can any self respecting man continue a marriage where his wife behaves like this? Going out drinking with other men is so far beyond any reasonable boundary... this is a complete disaster for the husband.

He needs to work on himself until his wife respects him enough to be loyal or until he finds another woman, or several, who are respectful towards him. That kind of behavior is completely unacceptable and.a huge red flag if he expects monogamy.

[–]weakandsensitive8 points9 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

How can any self respecting man continue a marriage where his wife behaves like this?

Oh my god yes... how could any woman go out for after work drinks until 7pm in an era where professional networking matters??? The fucking travesty of it all.

I hate morons like you who don't recognize how this impacts Rule 2. After work drinks has nothing to do with loyalty and all to do with your own fragile ego. If a woman is loyal, having afters doesn't change shit. If she wasn't, she's banging co-workers in the hallway for all you know.

This has so little to do with self respect and so much more to do with demonstrating how much of an insecure, needy, jealous, and small little shit you are. Especially in the modern world.

[–]eddielovett2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Just because someone cannot immediately relate to your circumstances does not make them a moron. I would find it unacceptable for my wife to even have male coworkers in the first place. I don’t want my sexy af wife in physical proximity to horny dudes is that so weird? I don’t think it’s jealousy considering our line of work (amateur porn). I just happen to have stricter boundaries I guess.

Some women want to be told what to do by a man. They like feeling like children who have to follow rules and be good to please their superior. When I became a pussy and stopped telling her what to do she lost respect and we almost separated. Soon as I laid down the law and became selfish in my desires again she fell back in love.

You can’t be reasonable with high value women you have to take everything with no compromise. That’s what dominant men do and that’s what creates respect and giny tingles.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don’t think it’s jealousy considering our line of work (amateur porn)

da fuq? your wife's line of work is porn and

unacceptable for my wife to even have male coworkers in the first place

only lesbian porn i guess

[–]eddielovett0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only with me and other girls yeah. Like most women my wife has a bisexual side.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Just because someone cannot immediately relate to your circumstances does not make them a moron.

You're right. Being moronic is what makes you a moron.

she fell back in love.

JFC

[–]eddielovett0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Edit: she “fell back in love”. Better?

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the notion of love as either a man or women within the red pill context is silly.

Some women want to be told what to do by a man. They like feeling like children who have to follow rules and be good to please their superior.

the crux of this implication is that a woman view a particular man as her superior. I completely agree with you and your entire premise when this is true.

the problem, for most men, is that this is not true. and so putting those types of boundaries is a flawed endeavor. you're trying to tell a guy, who isn't respected or valued by his wife, to lay down strict boundaries and then try to enforce them.

I actually think you're a unique case, because for most men --

My life is way too comfortable and I lack any external forces to motivate me. Just smoke weed, play video games and have sex (my business is in adult).

would lead to a total clusterfuck. I'm not convinced that you'll be an exception in the longer term, but we'll have to see. the whole nomad traveler thing is interesting and probably generates enough novelty.

[–]eddielovett2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree it’s silly that’s why it should be in quotes. That’s how women and society would phrase it though.

Establishing boundaries is a big step in reclaiming respect. As long as he does it in a dominant and masculine way, ideally without using words. Being clear on your boundaries and having the inner strength to not compromise on certain things will do wonders for his wife’s perception of him.

An exception to what? We just celebrated 8 years which is longer than pretty much anyone we know.

Most men are superior to their wives they are just socially conditioned to believe its wrong somehow. And the women are conditioned to be competitive and dominant while also maintaining special privileges of a delicate flower.

They want to be submissive but they have to put up a fight so they can test your strength.

That wife wants her husband to be man enough to boss her around and break through any resistance with ease. She wants an oak and a strong frame to get sucked into. If that’s not happening there’s something wrong.

If I don’t want my wife to do something she should already intuit that without me even vocalizing it. And if she does it anyway it’s a clear shit test.

[–]Chump_No_MoreHard Core Nuclear Navy Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They can't separate the concepts of women "wanting the attention of other men" vs "isolating with another man".

One is just female nature and the other is a bright line that must have consequences.

If you have to explain this to her:

  1. You're not a high value man with options.
  2. You chose poorly.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

spot on.

just want to add that either of the last two can be a major problem. in other words, don't wife up crazy or whore

[–]TaipanshimshonMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Strip it down.

What will you tolerate.

What will she know she can get away with?

Further -

What will she want and not want to do of her own accord.

And are you the man who induces this behavior

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was at the gym last night when this post was made. After that I went to my GFs house. She had dinner waiting for me. After we ate, we took a shower together. She loves to wash my beard. After that we fucked, then went to bed.

Didn’t see this post. Wasn’t thinking about first OP and his faggotry, and sure as hell was not so deep in that frame that I felt the need to go and make a whole new OP on the same fucking topic.

Yall need to man the fuck up. Get out of research mode and into execution.

[–]EnceladusPrime 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Amazed that's the only two scenarios you could come up with

[–]coachdad8-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had about 12 but deleted them for brevity.

[–]Nabonook 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude I fucked your wife you should shut the fuck up

[–]coachdad80 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Zing! Good one!

[–]Redpillbrigade17-4 points-3 points  (24 children) | Copy Link

I think since by its nature MRP is RP on hard mode, some folks here genuinely have a hard time dealing with “what if” scenarios where the wife / LTR gets close to flirting or actually flirts with “infidelity “.

A high value RP man in my book would be totally ok with “his woman” fucking some other dude. Who cares. Shrug it off. Demonstrate your high value and she won’t need to get tingles etc with others. Of course if she does things change.

Think about those scenarios where guys get cheated on and we tell them to move on, improve, she’s hypergamous anyway, focus on themselves, OI etc.

Lifelong monogamy is a weird, modern societal construct. Enforced by the state, church and religious doctrine and of course societal programming. Expecting it from a woman is a man’s problem. Committing exclusivity to one woman - for life: an even bigger one.

[–]coachdad810 points11 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

This is where time value comes in play. A man puts in the time and money to attract a high SMV woman and therefore she has value. If another man comes along and puts in a fraction of the work and gets similar results, it's unnerving and unfair and the ego struggles. If I exclusively want unattached sex, I can speed date on tinder without significant money or time invested. But once I decide to listen to her boring stories, spend Christmas with her weird family and pay for her ticket to Acapulco for a week, my ego says she owes me some damn loyalty. RP says wrong mindset, but logically it makes sense. Overcoming that programming is some high level mind hacking.

[–]tikitheman6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is a common problem though. If we were doing all these things for ourselves and the woman was just along for the ride our ego wouldnt get hit so hard, but we tend to "sacrifice" in ltrs and then get bitter when these sarcrifices go unrewarded.

Men need to lead and do the things we want to do for us. Take your ltr to the moon if you want to. Just do it because you want to and you enjoy her company. Not because it will make her "happy" or some other silly external "bullshit' reason.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a common problem though. If we were doing all these things for ourselves and the woman was just along for the ride our ego wouldnt get hit so hard, but we tend to "sacrifice" in ltrs and then get bitter when these sarcrifices go unrewarded.

This is a personal issue. Don't make your bullshit other people's problem. Really that simple. That's the core of OYS.

[–]tikitheman2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You just said what I said yay

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. :)

[–]Redpillbrigade173 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And one more thing: careful those sound like covert contracts: “I spend $$ and therefore she better be nice and faithful”. Textbook Blue pill thinking.

Also: “time value” reference . Again sounds like blue pill. Should be more like: be careful of sunk costs: just because you spent a bunch of time on her, that shouldn’t automatically commit you to continuing to do so if it no longer serves you. Past time is almost irrelevant if she trips a boundary you’ve set.

[–]Chadster1132 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a HUGE covert contract bro! Don't do that stuff and then expect she's owes you. You need to read up on covert contracts.

[–]grumpieroldman2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A man puts in the time and money to attract a high SMV woman

No you don't. Have you learned nothing?
If your objective is to get a lay then snatching a high-SMV woman means lowering your standards to a high-SMV slut and bringing your high SMV value to the table. That means be interesting. She will slum it from time to time so even a 6, or a 5 if she's upset enough, can nail a 9.

Ok that's over. Now what? If you married her because of her high SMV you're a moron.
You need to figure out if salvage or abandon is your best strategy.

[–]coachdad82 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course it's a covert contract and only mentioned because it's the natural beta thinking to illustrate the takeaway:

my ego says she owes me some damn loyalty. RP says wrong mindset

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

If another man comes along and puts in a fraction of the work and gets similar results

If that's the case, how the fuck do you define yourself as high value???

it's unnerving and unfair and the ego struggles.

Oh. That explains your mindset and understanding pretty clearly.

You seem to think men and women are the same - in thought, value, and processes - that a relationship is tit-for-tat, which makes sense why you struggle with the differences.

For example, you go out to drink/bar/nightclubs because you're thirsty and desperate. There is no attractive woman at a nightclub who is thirsty or desperate. Even fat chicks get fucked on Eurotrips.

[–]coachdad83 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

If another man comes along and puts in a fraction of the work and gets similar results

If that's the case, how the fuck do you define yourself as high value???

Right guy in the right place at the right time. Wife gets drunk at a work convention, meets VP from competitor company, gets attention and gets nude in hot tub. How does that prove you don't have a high value? Even famous actors get cucked occasionally regardless of their high value.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Even famous actors get cucked occasionally regardless of their high value.

Just know that your definition of value is wrong.

It's not money, status, looks, etc. It's not external platitudes that define you.

Wealthy CEOs are in dead bedrooms too.

And what's with your massive fear of getting cucked? It's really weird.

[–]coachdad81 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Based on the definition of SMV, a famous and highly paid actor would be considered high value to most women. I don't choose what women perceive as high value. Sidebar ----->

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty much you're either intentionally obtuse or you're a moron. But for the sake of argument, go ahead and just go make more money to raise your SMV. Be sure to report back and let us know how that goes.

what's with your massive fear of getting cucked?

You probably want to answer this question.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

this type of SMV (famous, rich, good looking, funny, big dick, etc.) is really all there is to it when your dating. a lot of this stuff is on the surface or superficial.

not saying that stuff doesn't matter once your in LTR/marriage; and to the extent that you're leveraging all that to have 2 in the kitty it can matter a lot.

however, nothing trumps FRAME in LTR. if you're not at the center of yours, if you're a needy bitch, and if you're not providing her your presence and the feelz none of that superficial stuff matters. just more cash and prizes for her after she goes out for a late night cocktail.

there is a reason we call it HARD MODE

[–]hack3geMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

however, nothing trumps FRAME in LTR.

This was the hardest for me to wrap my head around and my biggest source of frustration when I started. I was ripped, successful and getting tons of IOIs but still no sex with the wife. The moment I found my frame she started to respect me then everything changed and instead things got wrapped around my head.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

a woman cannot fuck a man in LTR she does not respect. it's utterly repulsive to her

it's why, rightfully so, that men in LTR not being fucked fell disrespected more than any other emotion

[–]hack3geMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep my wife used to berate me, talk down to me like a child and to be honest I fucking hated her for it. She never apologized for anything in the 12 years we were married. I used to complain to my therapist that she didn't respect me and it was beneath her to apologize to me (little did I know it was all my fault). I had to nuke things a few times but now if she even starts raising her voice or starts criticizing me she usually catches herself first or I just give her a sideways look and she apologizes. Funny thing is now I never apologize for anything and she knows it but she continues to apologize.

My eyes hurt...

[–]Redpillbrigade171 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You do all those things like invest time and maybe a bit of money because you want to for your own enjoyment, and you picked her as the best one worthy of your time. You enjoy her company, she’s pleasant, sexual etc and so you commit more energy, attention and resources to her than to any other. But she’s always susceptible to branch swing and I argue she should be free to do so (is otherwise anyway). If she does, you’ll just replace her. Remember Poon’s commandment VII ‘always keep two in the kitty’. Plus that’s some real dread if both you and her are always on the market.

[–]grumpieroldman3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think since by its nature MRP is RP on hard mode,

TRP is man on hard-mode because you don't respect yourself enough to consider your sperm precious. TRP is still an upgrade for them because they are coming at it from the incel side of the equation. Their objective is to get a slut to fuck them. How hard is that? They fuck our cast-aways.
If you're married now then I presume somewhere along the way you broke in at least one filly.
If you married a slut ... well you get what you get. No changing her now. Accept it.

[–]Redpillbrigade17-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No. MRP is RP on hard mode because dread is implied and covert and you can’t outright bang other women due to expectation of fidelity. You’re locked in.

And as far as “slut” not sure how that helps. Women are going to fuck or not for all sorts of reasons, as we know (AF/BB, social factors, upbringing etc). Who cares. Call me a feminist but let women fuck as they wish. I am not here to keep her N count or have dreams of conquering and securing a virgin.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A high value RP man in my book would be totally ok with “his woman” fucking some other dude.

What the fuck are you talking about?

[–]Redpillbrigade170 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Simply positing that a high-value man does not lose sleep over what’s outside his control.

[–]frost_v4DREAD Pirate Roberts1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, because nothing says "Alpha" like "I don't care if you cuckold me." [sarcasm]

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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