~ archived since 2018 ~

Women Don't Care How Strong You Are... They Care How Strong* You Look

July 16, 2018

The title is self-explanatory but since a lot of newer guys seem to miss this, let's break it down a bit.

How Women 'Feel' The World

99.99% of women do not have the frame of reference to appreciate how significant gains in strength are. My wife is extremely fit and regularly does the major powerlifting lifts on her own. She is a personal trainer. She still doesn't have the frame of reference to truly understand the difference between benching 275 and 365. Both are so far past her realm of personal experience that she can't relate. As such, she doesn't give a shit if I increase my BP from 275 to 365. She might congratulate me on an achievement but it won't win me any additional respect or tingles. Remember, women process their world through their feelings and they can't 'feel' what they can't personally relate to on an experiential level.

What my wife can understand is that there are now lines on my stomach where there weren't before. My deltoids stand out now because I've lost fat above the tricep and bicep. My upper body has more of a v shape because I've lost inches around the middle. Hence, tingles.

Strong versus Strong\*

Where I'm going with this is that if I want to generate tingles, I need to remember that looks > performance. Your woman cares far more about you looking strong* than actually being strong. I put an asterisk next to strong because I don't really mean strong in the fat powerlifter sense. I mean more of a powerful, competent sense like a men's physique athlete. Those guys look like they can run to and then still participate in a fight if they need to. The powerlifter? He looks like he would be out of breath after 5-6 punches. That's not really true, of course, especially if you've seen real strongman competitions but women don't have the frame of reference to really understand that on the primal level that generates tingles.

What Does This Mean To Me?

If you stand in front of the mirror at complete rest and don't see vertical and horizontal lines between your abs, you are too fat. I don't mean that in a medical sense. I mean that in a maximization of your SMV sense. Alternatively, if you can see lines between your abs but you have no V taper because you have the shoulders of an 11 year old girl, you don't have enough muscle mass.

What this means is that neither of the following guys is getting as much interest as he should be:

"Male, 6'0, 225lbs with 20% BF, 325# BP and 450# squat" - pretty strong but still too fat

"Male, 5'10, 145lbs with 8% BF, 175# BP and 245% squat" - pretty lean but not enough muscle

But are AWALT? Does this apply to every single woman? Maybe. Maybe not. Sure, some women may "prefer" leaner guys and some may "prefer" stronger guys but everyone still has a biological impulse to breed with the best possible genetic specimen.

That's the same as the guy who says "I really like much leaner girls" but who would be DTF Kate Upton in .001 seconds if she was even remotely available. Biology is biology.

So... stop settling for "18% BF" or "165# Bench Press"... go out there and become fucking Thor or Hugh Jackman or the 17 year old werewolf kid from Twilight that all the 45 year old moms were perving over. Don't settle for less.

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Post Information
Title Women Don't Care How Strong You Are... They Care How Strong* You Look
Author CaptJohnLukeDiscard
Upvotes 59
Comments 63
Date July 16, 2018 6:51 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link
Original Link

[–]The_LitzMRP APPROVED19 points20 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Women only see a red sportscar, it can have a 4 banger or a V12. Makes no diffs.

[–]Doxazosin2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When I was in high school there was a kid with plastic chrome spinner hubcaps on his red convertible sebring. Peice of junk and bad taste, right? That guy did really well with the girls. He's still trashy AF and has 4 kids with 3 different women.

[–]Youngyoda893 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In other words- he’s still Chad

[–]pacjax7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

russel orhi looks he would woop some ass and hes one of the strongest powerlifters in the world.

you should change this to just say "be lean and not fat"

[–]RPAlternate42MRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Train how you want to perform and then how you want to look.

I do a 6x6 for PPL 3x a week. I train BJJ and Muy Thai 2-3 times a week.

this gives me a mix between being big, defined, and athletic with the backing of the confidence that I can move the weight effectively, and if necessary, violently. It shows in the way I stand, walk, move, etc.

I remember a poster I read at a police gym once that stated statistics about cops in hand-to-hand confrontations. After most incidents, the reason given for fighting the cop was along the lines of, he looked like I could take him. The poster encouraged weight lifting as a means to obtain physical deterrents.

[–]cappadocianhawk4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Looking obviously muscular is such a good deterrent when confronting someone. I've seen this a lot in my line of work. Nobody really wants to fight a guy who looks like he can break you in half.

And people become a lot more respectful towards you in every conversation when you're bigger. It's unreal.

[–]RPAlternate42MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get apologized to because I'm in their way

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Does she watch you compete? It would show that you're as strong, if not stronger, than a powerlifter when it comes down to a fight

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

yeah i don't give two shits how much you lift. i care what your height/waist/shoulder ratio is. being strong is great. looking strong is better. if you wanna get laid that is

[–]Reach180MRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This is the faggotiest thing I've seen upvoted on this sub in a long time.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

ya'll wanna look like a polynesian lineman cause it means you're strong be my guest. i'll just keep all the pussy to myself. i'll bet i'm already fucking the wives of your fatasses. so many fat strong guys at the gym these days. so fucking gross

[–]antedaeguemon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't agree more.

[–]meaningintragedy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No wonder some people say that our societies are feminized when listen to these faggots speak.

[–]Westernhagen2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

99.99% of women do not have the frame of reference to appreciate how significant gains in strength are.... Your woman cares far more about you looking strong* than actually being strong.

OK, in her frame of reference, it's about looks not strength. What about you? In your frame, is it important to be strong? Is it really all about her tingles, and should it be?

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No but that’s not the point of the post. The point of the post is that if you want tingles, anything above 15% (maybe lower tbh) leaves you with less than what you would get otherwise.

I made the post because there seem to be a lot of newer guys with the attitude of “18% BF so I’m doing great.”

[–]redeemedpr10 points11 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Just looking strong is not the point either. We don't lift just to get the pretty looking muscles. We lift to foster and build a mindset as well. Being strong has enumerable benefits in addition to physique, that have been outlined here in the past, and by Jim Wendler himself recently in a blog post.

Why Do This

Getting strong is valuable in its own right. So, your post should just be titled "Get strong, but dont get fat".

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The point of the post wasn’t about why it’s valuable as a guy to lift. Sure, there are many reasons outside of aesthetics and strength to lift.

The point of the post was to explain how women view men who lift and what sort of lifting / diet produces tingles. This is a sexual strategy sub. The health / mental benefits are important but hold less value here than what generates demonstrable change in SMV. For most new guys, they need a reminder that the mirror test candid shirtless photo doesn’t lie and most of them are fat. Most of the rest don’t have enough muscle.

[–]Reach180MRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the mirror test doesn’t lie

I'd argue that it does. 15 lbs ago I could convince myself that I passed the mirror test. I could convince myself I looked good in the mirror....then I'd see pictures. "Must have been drinking that day - I look a little bloated", I'd think.

You're still too fat until you look lean and jacked in selfies & candids.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good point... I'll edit

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I had an old post under my [deleted] username which made a similar point.

Alpha males walk with a slow, purposeful cadence. you can easily fake it by working out for a decade and putting on 10lbs of muscle. e.g.

the benefits are so numerous... parkinsons seems to be the only reason not to at this point

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

WTF are you talking about ? Parkinson’s?

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Steven Hawkins shouldn't try to squat his bodyweight.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

K, thought you were inferring a link between lifting and parkinsons.

i googled before asking you, and turns out lifting has been shown to slow the progression of parkinsons. so SH should have went to the iron temple after all

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

heh. I kept it light. Save the doctor schtick for /u/tshimsham or whatever his name is now.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

did he respawn? lost track

[–]Rian_StoneHard Core Navy Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah, I don't speak hewbrew, so cannot spell the new name

[–]TurdDoctorHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He's dead now so he won't be lifting anything or fucking. RIP SH.

[–]Pnwradar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Eh, even then maybe. Older guy in a volunteer org I work with, took up boxing last year, his symptoms have receded enough you wouldn't know he has Parkinson's. Something to do with learning how to do something totally new but physical, plus the benefits of regular exercise.

[–]gearsmurf2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This is why I gravitated towards a more bodybuilding style of training. I know it’s tempting to go the powerlifting route and never cut or diet. It’s also fun to pile the plates on the bar and the ego lift.

But lighter weights, volume training, time under tension, isolation and compound exercises and perfect form will get me more muscle growth.

I love Eddie Hall but my wife thinks he’s gross.

[–]electric_dragon11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It'll also reduce risk of injuries

[–]Youngyoda890 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What is your height weight and body fat? Curious to know how much success you’ve had from this routine?

[–]gearsmurf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

178 cm or 5’10”, 95 kg and roughly estimated 15 percent (visible abs when flexed only).

I did used steroids but these stats are totally obtainable natty but would be at upper end of my natural limit. I’m not on steroids now.

The bodybuilding training style is proven to be best for pure muscle growth and aesthetics though. I have leaned towards powerlifting style at times as it’s fun but when I was honest with myself about my main goal it was just to look good and gain size.

[–]TitustheTurtle1 point2 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Well this sucks. I was 70 kg 6ft2 a few years ago. I've been lifting ever since, and am now at 90kg, benching 100kg, squatting 150. But I still dont look like I lift. Yeah im bigger, but the aestheticness never came, and if i go a few days without lifting i look like a scrawny stick insect again. Im not sure if its body dismorphia or what, but my lifting partner has been lifting a year and looks like a monster compared to me, even tho hes no where near as strong.

Fuck it, gotta get a little bigger tommorow.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Eat more protein. Aim for 1.2-1.5g per pound of body weight. That's freedom units to you. The side benefit of this is you will be so damned full from all the protein you will probably drop some fat due to not having enough room to pig out, especially if you combine this with something like intermittent fasting.

Also, make sure you are following a true body building routine. If you've been lifting a while, check out Renaissance Periodization for some good details on how much volume various body parts need for maximal hypertrophy (for most people... everyone is a bit different).

[–]TitustheTurtle1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

tbf my chest back and legs look decent (relatively). Arms are the hugest (smallest) issue! Arms are obviously the best looking muscle and mine come in at a whoping 14in flexed. Il look into that Renaissance Peidization, although im about to go travelling for 6 months, and will need to do body weight fitness to cling to the muscle i have!

I dont think eating is the problem, ive gained 20kg in 6 years and i dont look fat... Oviously im fatter than I was, but im a naturally skinny dude.

Cheers for the advice though, its definitely a slog when you've been doing it a while, and arnt seeing the results you expected at the start.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chin-ups. More chin-ups. More chin-ups. Check out Martin Berkhan. Dude does no direct bicep training.

[–]facestab3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some guys have to pack on a ton of muscle before they look muscular it’s all in your frame. Keep getting stronger . Also I’m not sure I totally agree with OP girls can recognize the difference between a thick arm and small one.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great advice in the other comments.

Also, size != strength, as you point out. Size comes from your muscle cells storing more sacroplasm (food) in them. This happens as a response to being worked to exhausting, which necessitates high reps.

Strength is a result of more myosin and actin proteins connecting your muscle cells . This happens as a result of lifting high weight, which necessitate low reps.

If you're not seeing the size you want, increasing reps and lowering weight might be the issue.


[–]TitustheTurtle-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good call, I do tend to go for bigger lifts. The gym I go to is a proper body builder gym, with (I assume) a pretty large steriod culture. Some of those guys are freaking HUGE. I know I should focus on my own shit, but I push heavier weight to try and make up for being one of the smaller guys in the gym! Also it feels awesome when you push a PB for the first time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah man. Set your own goals and go for it.

[–]meaningintragedy1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Get your test checked.

[–]TitustheTurtle0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How? At the GP?

What are the options if its low?

[–]meaningintragedy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

At the GP. See my history for a list of what to check.

Do your bloods then we'll see what your options are.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What's your daily caloric consumption?

[–]r_u_a_badfish21 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It’s a catch 22. A real manly man always trains for performance to be the best version of himself, and laughs at the pretty boys in the gym doing Scott preacher curls and dumbbell flies. However, those pretty boys are out smashing mad pussy. What to do? Find a sport that allows you to train both attributes effectively. MMA/martial arts comes to mind.

[–]dick_perle1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is a nonexistent problem. If you go for strength gains, and don’t get fat, you will a physique that women love.

Also, you’ll start to feel this deep sense of inner strength.

I don’t think there is a conflict between performance and aesthetics. Women don’t like powerlifters bc they look like fatasses.

Strength + Low Body Fat will never let you down.

[–]cappadocianhawk0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You need martial arts. Lifting heavier and heavier with the fat powerlifter look is a good personal goal and commendable, but OP is right. Martial arts allows you to be really muscular AND lean while still having a lot of room for personal growth.

Be a warrior/poet. The chicks love that shit.

[–]r_u_a_badfish21 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Agreed. Everyone always says at TRP: Just Lift Bro! Well, if you follow that logic, then you need to be learning how to fight as well. IMO martial arts should be just as much an iron rule as lifting. We're trying to be the best version of ourselves as MEN, right? Well, what kind of man are you if you don't know how to handle yourself? If you think lifting does wonders for your body, mind, and spirit, then you'll be blown away by the effects martial arts training. You don't need to be Conor McGregor, just get out there 1 or 2 times a week and learn a few things. And spar everyone once in a while. Sparring is the martial arts equivalent of practicing game in the field. No sparring=no improvement.

[–]dick_perle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but if you’re big and strong you can legitimately beat the shit out of the vast majority of men.

There’s a reason why weight classes are so important.

Taking boxing classes is great, but after a period of diminishing returns it’s not necessary.

Also, if you do get in a fight, you’re liable for assault, so it’s better to just get jacked and strong with low body fat.

People won’t take their chances.

[–]dick_perle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Martial arts is great, but you don’t need them. You just need to be strong with low body fat.

Boxing is probably the most practical martial art. No need for spiritual BS.

[–]civilizedfrog1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't lift weights for women. You lift weights to better yourself and push your body to it's limits. The women tingles is just the side effect.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is not a self improvement forum. This is a sexual strategy forum.

[–]MRPThrowSS1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This post stinks. Sounds like someone trying to rationalize his faggoty body building routine to avoid the reality that he’s too vain and real lifting is too hard for him.

If you are lifting to look a certain way, you’re either a girl or you’re doing it wrong. OP is right that 99% of dudes that come on here for the first time are too fat, and the other 20% are too scrawny. What’s the common denominator here? They’re all weak. What do they need? To get strong as quickly as possible. Every other physical (and mental) pursuit that might come in the future will be enhanced by getting strong first. How do you get strong? With a program like starting strength linear progression or its ginger stepchild, stronglifts 5x5.

We lift because it’s hard. Doing hard things builds both mental and physical character (and boosts T), which has benefits far beyond the gym. For most guys, the end of a linear progression will be the hardest thing they’ve ever done in their lives; you don’t know what hard is until you are literally shaking scared to go to the gym because you know how heavy the squat will be that day. You don’t know until you get tunnel vision in the hole and probably even shart in your pants because the bar is so heavy. Back and Bi’s iso day for sets of 12 to “get your pump on” doesn’t give you this.

You want lines on your stomach? I’ll make it easy- you don’t even need to go to the gym; you can do all your work for those in the kitchen (although higher T certainly helps with body composition). Or even better, to get those massive delts with vascular relief, why not just take steroids?

When you are really benching 300+, you can decide for yourself what is most important to you, whether it’s body comp, sheer strength, yoga poses, whatever. Until then, you gotta get strong. OP said this post was for newbies, but he has the newbie advice completely backwards. What most newbies get wrong is exactly the opposite: prioritizing looks over strength without realizing that getting strong first is most important. Looks will come after a base of strength.

Finally, let’s not fall into the beta trap of assuming what’s attractive to me is attractive to her. It’s well known in this community that physical appearance, while top of the list for female attractiveness, is far down the list for males, ranking well below confidence, charisma, state control, sense of humor, and social status. It’s easy, but naive, to assume that the physical benefits of lifting heavy are what generate the tingles. In reality, what makes the sofa sloth that suddenly gets the iron bug attractive is not the six pack (although it obviously doesn’t hurt), but the fact that he is finally taking control of his life, going out and getting after something, and learning about himself and the fact he can endure hard things, all of which show up in subtle ways in his personality.

[–]CaptJohnLukeDiscard[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Real lifting is wayyy to hard for me bro. I'll sit down over here with my puny lifts and cry for a while.

[–]MRPThrowSS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cool man. You are clearly reasonably strong- great work. Just goes further to show how the advice you have to give about lifting is even less applicable to newbies. No one that hasn’t been in a gym in 5+ years needs to be doing a complicated 5/3/1 program, much less sets of 20 (that is an absurd amount of volume for a novice lifter).

You’ve reached the point where you get to choose what’s good for you - you do you. Most of the guys on here haven’t, and you need to recognize that.

[–]Infinite_Wrap0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm confused, I thought we are supposed to make ourselves the mental point of origin. Why should I give a shit about what she wants? I thought this was about figuring out what I want and going after it? Or is this a case of "you do you - figure out what works for you and discard the rest?"

Also, given the choice between being "pretty strong but too fat" and "pretty lean but not strong" I'll take the former over the latter every day.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

depends on which you value more; being the strongest you can be or fucking the most/hottest you can

i like to fuck, a lot

[–]Reach180MRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, given the choice between being "pretty strong but too fat" and "pretty lean but not strong" I'll take the former over the latter every day.

You don't have to choose. Get strong, manage your diet.

You do those two things, aesthetics take care of themselves.

[–]MrChad_ThundercockPlaying the lead roll0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good reminder about women “feelzing” their way through the world. I stopped reading the last half.

Feelz before Realz.

[–]thunderbeyond0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dead right. Women have made their mind up about you by how you look. They see the muscles and they make up the stories in their mind about how strong you are.

It's not as if you can pick up and OHP a woman to prove it. You dress well and you have a chance to show it only.

Make the hamster run.

[–]dick_perle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Girls feel your strength when you hold them.

If you get strong you’ll notice that girls tell you how much they love your hugs. They’ll literally tell their friends, “feel his hug... it’s amazing” and then the other girl will “wow”.

The hug makes the girl feel safe and protected from a source of strength. I think this factor is as important as aesthetics.

Imagine being hugged by a friendly bear or a lion versus being hugged by a scrawny person.

You shouldn’t get a bear body, but girls love the strong hug. You just envelop them and it hits them on a primal level.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People always say how cleavage on a man is forearms. This is false. Cleavage on a man is a lower abdominal V. Which sucks, because any old chubby women can have cleavage, but only the most disciplined of men can have that stomach. It's not fair, but hey, neither is life.

[–]hidemyface1234Dreadful '190 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

One caveat is if your strength is displayed in real life(usefulness) or in relation to other men(gene quality).

Ex: she cant loft something and you do it with ease

Ex2: chubby hubby William struggles to lift the cooler full of beer. You pick it up with ease.

Lessons: be useful (she wants someone to use, may as well be you-- on your terms) Be superior to your competition (she wants the best genes she has ever had or can get, whichever is greater)

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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