~ archived since 2018 ~

Wow...I just totally lost my shit.

May 10, 2017
51 upvotes

This saved a bit early, I meant to tag is as a FR (or possibly Cautionary Tale.)

Context: MRP since November. Lifting, sidebar, hobbies, leadership, etc - working on all of those, not perfect anywhere but lots of progress. Married about 6 years, SAHM, two kids, 3 and 1. Career beta that whole time, married to my oneitis. 100% dead bedroom for 1.5 years after the second kid was conceived. Only recently started having sex again. Had a huge blowout two months ago, after she was acting depressed enough that I had worries about the kid's well being. Since then, things have stabilized - she's MUCH better, much more in control, dressing nicer, much better with the kids, better mood. But sex has also drifted off, from a high right after that big fight (8 times that month) to about once every week and a half. Also important: I've initiated the last few nights and been rejected, and those rejections got to me, even after a few months of truly feeling OI.


So, MRP - tell me how much I fucked up. Pretty sure I was just involved in a train wreck.

Now, something you should know about me: I don't get mad. Really, hardly ever. I had a wicked temper as a kid, really hurt some other kids in fights, and had my anger straight up therapy-ed out of me.

Because of that, I internalize anger. I don't show it. I can count on 1 hand the times I have gotten visibly outraged at my wife over our 9 year relationship. If I get really pissed, I might go in another room and punch myself in the leg. Given myself some nice bruises that way, but other than that, it's extremely rare for me to blow up, yell, etc.

This week I've been trying to make plans with a friend, Friend X. That friend also knows my wife (we all grew up together), but Friend X and I are very close, grab beers together for "Dad Nights", etc.

I've noticed my wife and I haven't had a date night in a while, and we've been hanging out separately a lot. I thought it would be nice to lead our relationship and get some group hang time in.

Yesterday I texted for logistics, letting her know I was making plans for this week with friend X. I asked if she'd be down to have him over the house after the kids were asleep, maybe play a board game. She has been reluctant to have people over in the past, because she feels self conscious about our house.

She didn't reply. She's on her phone all fucking day, messaging her friends, so I know she got the text. Fine - no worries. I

Friend X called me this morning, let me know he would be in town, and we decided to grab a beer. Texted wife:

ME: Heads up - Friend X will be in town tonight, so I'm swinging out to meet him. Won't be till around 7:30.

HER: Wait. Is this instead of him coming over to hang out?

ME: i never heard back from you about that. do you want him to come over?

HER: You never followed up with me. I didn't have a chance to think it answer when you texted. I wish you would stop assuming things. You do this a lot.

HER: I'm so frustrated. Like, what went through your thought process when I didn't respond? There are so many possibilities and you just assumed one thing which is most convenient for you.

...............

ME: wow.

HER: That's what you have to say? We are supposed to be working in our communication. It continues to be a problem.

I don't know if it was her "tone" - like she was chastising one of our kids. I don't know if it was the complete taking me for granted. I don't know if it was just weeks of initiating and getting rejected, all the "I have OI" talk I'd been giving myself just covering up more resentment.

But at this point, I lost it.

Blood started pounding in my head. My hands started shaking. My breathing sped up, and I started pacing the room...

...And then, from my hands to the keyboard, emerged the grossest fucking victim puke.

I'm including it here because it's fucking embarrassing. If I'm being honest, I didn't even mean to send it - I typed it in, expecting to get it out and then delete it.

But of course, I hit "send" instead.

ME: how about i don’t want to text because I am soon fucking pissed at you. I texted YOU to include YOU in plans that I was making. I wanted to hang out with YOU and reached out to YOU because we haven’t hung out much lately. YOU are on your phone all fucking DAY and probably facebook messaged your friends 150 times over the course of the next 24 hours. I told YOU I was trying to making plans for this week. and yet, when YOU don’t have the fucking time or courtesy to respond to ME, it is MY fault and I should’ve been chasing YOU around and treating you like a fucking child.

jesus fucking christ i am so fucking pissed i can barely breathe hence me trying to pull back on the texts and nOT RESPOND i am shaking god damn, you take me for granted. holy FUCK

I haven't edited any of that, because hopefully one day I will look back on my post history here and laugh at this.

I then called her, basically reiterated the above, she started arguing back about "how dare I turn this around on her" and "is it too much to ask that I follow up with her in person." And I argued back every point, completely sucked in.

She said she had to go - she was with our son - and we'd talk about it when I got home.


Look, this is like, the picture of an MRP train wreck. Losing frame, being butt hurt, showing weakness, getting sucked into fights, DEERing, fucking texting!

Like I was going down a fucking check list of things not to do, and then just doing them instead.

I probably undid months of work.

But, honestly...it feels so good to be MAD. It feels good to be pissed off and vocal about it. It feels good to get pissed and call her out on shit.

I know - it's probably terrible for the marriage, terrible for me. But I actually feel GOOD now. I'm sure it'll fade and this will just feel shitty, like the victim puke it was.

Anyway. Posting this here to remind everyone, and myself:

1.) You can feel like you are on top of you shit, and still let stupid bullshit get to you. Never slack off or let up your guard.

2.) Even when you THINK you have let go of resentment and butthurt, that shit goes deep and can fuck you up when you least expect it. This day started perfectly fine.

3.) I made a commitment when I started here to be open about this process. This shit is fucking embarassing. I'm posting it anyway.

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Post Information
Title Wow...I just totally lost my shit.
Author resolutions316
Upvotes 51
Comments 128
Date May 10, 2017 1:56 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/wowi-just-totally-lost-my-shit.198842
https://theredarchive.com/post/198842
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/6acwoq/wowi_just_totally_lost_my_shit/
Comments

[–]ArchwingerMarried- MRP MODERATOR58 points59 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's okay to be angry. To want to hurt your wife for being a disrespectful cunt. But you're going about it all wrong.

If you really want to take a stab at your wife, when she says she's frustrated about something you're doing or not doing, just respond "k", then go out with your friend like you planned, come back late, try to fuck your wife, and when she turns you down, shrug and go to sleep. Doing THAT enough times will get her the message louder and clearer than explaining yourself and arguing. Now, how she responds to the message will depend on what she thinks of you -- she might divorce your ass if she thinks you're a worthless loser and she has better lined up. But if you're a badass, she'll get her act together.

Arguing with your wife and puking emotions at her will have no effect, except to make her feel better and more powerful for having gotten to you. She's not thinking "Omg, he has a point". She's thinking, "Omg, what a childish loser. Why is he acting like a baby?" Expressing your anger that way isn't effective at hurting her. If anything, it empowers her and drives her to do more because she knows she's winning.

If you're angry and want to hurt your wife to send the message and make her get her act together, do it right. Learn how to actually hurt her.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

She's not thinking "Omg, he has a point". She's thinking, "Omg, what a childish loser. Why is he acting like a baby?" Expressing your anger that way isn't effective at hurting her. If anything, it empowers her and drives her to do more because she knows she's winning

Yup. She determined my frame, entirely. It may have felt good releasing the anger, but it was still a reaction that she ultimately manipulated me into having.

Your suggestion is to show indifference to her, which would have been the much better play.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

HER: Wait. Is this instead of coming over to hang out?

No response past here.

[–]cdogg75Married2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would have replied after her comment with: "You didn't respond. You snooze you lose. LOL"

I think that would have shifted the blame to her and still be aloof.

[–]drty_prMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah. His bitch is a hateful one and I don't think he'd have the frame to pull it off. STFU was his nest course here.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was about to type a response but this has everything I wanted to say covered. Anger is a perfectly acceptable emotion, you just cannot vent it at your girl except to sternly set boudaries. Anger can be a great motivator for change.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So you threw your temper tantrum and feel better. Was it worth it?

She's a woman. You can be 100% right in every single point on any given subject and she'll still find a way to turn it around. I've learned that arguing with females is pointless. Emotions are their realm. Do your best not to fight on their turf.

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cuz then they just start hitting below the belt

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very Sun Tzu of you

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED17 points18 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

had my anger straight up therapy-ed out of me

You can't improve until you deal with this. You are angry. There is no therapy that can remove an emotion. What happened is that you got brain washed. You need to learn to deal with anger.

As for that other bullshit.

You do realize that is what it was....just bullshit. With one simple response she broke your weak frame into a thousand little pieces. You had an expectation of being awesome guy and setting something up.

I could dissect this part but it would be meaningless because you're angry. Not just at her or you, but in general. What person just goes off at this kind of thing?

It's bullshit. Remember that. You make an overture to include her. She blows it off then goes high orbit.

Just reply. OK. I'll be home at 8:30.....then come home at 10.

then don't look at the phone.

it feels so good to be MAD. It feels good to be pissed off and vocal about it. It feels good to get pissed and call her out on shit.

Because you've never allowed yourself to be. YOu've never had to deal with it.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

You can't improve until you deal with this. You are angry. There is no therapy that can remove an emotion. What happened is that you got brain washed. You need to learn to deal with anger.

Yeah. That's become increasingly apparent to me. I religiously avoid conflict and showing anger, but...yeah.

Anyway. I have no idea how to do that work. I have absolutely no idea how to get back in touch with that part of myself that's actually fucking healthy.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

First I don't necessarily believe in therapy. But I think it's warranted in you case. You need to learn to deal with it productively

Second i'd highly recommend serious meditation for you.

Third either dedicate more time to your work out or find another physically challenging activity and wear yourself out. Anger is easier to deal with when you're exhausted.

Fourth. Don't hide from it any more.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Second this, especially the meditation advice. It seems to work in two ways: one, just increasing your baseline relaxation, and after a blowout it can be very soothing to just do a sit for a half hour and be in a much better place afterwards. Two, it teaches you to see your thoughts and emotions for what they are - half the time they're just random, fleeting, reactive nonsense that comes out of nowhere. It becomes a lot easier to just watch anger arise but not get sucked into it once you start to see the truth of that.

[–]5hogun points points [recovered] | Copy Link

It would seem to me, medication is the antithesis of redpill ideology.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Who said anything about medication?

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Your anger here is a symptom of your domination by your wife's frame. Don't treat the symptom, treat the cause, which is your lack of your own authentic frame.

What do you believe? What do you want? What does your ideal life/marriage/family/world look like?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Up-voted. This is what I was looking for in a response to this issue. The root cause and an actionable path forward.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your anger here is a symptom of your domination by your wife's frame.

This. If you are going to get angry AT LEAST understand why you are angry.

[–]plein_old5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have absolutely no idea how to get back in touch with that part of myself

lol. Don't worry.

Your wife will give you expert professional highly skilled help in getting you back in touch with your anger. :)

[–]ElSupremoDeluxe3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Anger is a secondary emotion, so you need to find out what the primary, underlying emotion is so you can work on bettering yourself.

Anger is normal, but lose your shit rage isn't.

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

9 times out of 10, the underlying emotion is fear

[–]FailingBillionaire1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a small step from the limo to the gutter.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

NMMNG has some good advice on anger. It's real and trying to hold it in or beat yourself up doesn't work. It hurts you on two levels. First, nothing ever gets resolved to your satisfaction. Second, other people can tell when you're faking a non-reaction so they can manipulate the hell out of you.

If it's been a while since you read it, you might take another pass through and see how you can express conflict without raging.

[–]crimson_chris2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Can you show anger without losing frame? I'd lean toward saying no. Once you show anger, you show a bit of a chink in the armour. When I think of a lot of great leaders, you never see them angry. Passionate? Yes. Angry? No. That being said, if you have been beta for while an expression of masculine energy via anger (w/o puke) can have positive effects - but I think there's a slight sacrafice of frame.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can.

Allow emotion to happen not happen to you.

There's a difference between anger and being angry.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

In a paragraph, you've managed to demonstrate you don't know jack shit.

When I think of a lot of great leaders, you never see them angry.

What great leaders do you think you know? You don't lead leaders the same way you lead peons.

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Wow. You really live up to your name.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's such an edgy and clever comment that no one else has ever made before.

I'm blown away by how obtuse people are.

[–]crimson_chris0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Haha. You're like a woman that wears a tube top with no bra and gets mad when guys look at her tits.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No really, he is correct. Many great leaders have a terrible temper. Churchill cussed out and insulted his opponents routinely. Nixon called everybody in the office everything but a white man. Patton lost his shit and slapped and assaulted a sick soldier. MacArthur was a national hero who got so pissed at the President he got himself fired.

[–]sh0ckley0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Movies have helped me a lot on my journey.

"Patton" was one of those movies.

Even Jesus completely lost his shit with the money changers. Anger is ok and not always synonymous with loss of frame.

[–]yes_we_can_t2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I like your advice, except saying you'll be home at 8:30 and coming home later. As a man you should stand by your words unless there's a damn good reason not to.

You achieve the same by not saying anything.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You do you

[–]yes_we_can_t2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, but do you really believe that deliberately weakening your word by lying about something so inconsequential is a good idea?

"Keeping your word" is a masculine trait, in men or women. A person with a feminine essence may not keep her word, yet it is not exactly "lying" In the feminine reality, words and facts take a second place to emotions and the shifting moods of relationship. When she says, "I hate you," or "I'll never move to Texas," or "I don't want to go to the movies," it is often more a reflection of a transient feeling-wave than a well considered stance with respect to events and experience. On the other hand, the masculine means what it says. A man's word is his honor. The feminine says what it feels. A woman's word is her true expression in the moment.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Honor is a fine thing to have.

Hypergamy doesn't give a shit about your honor.

[–]yes_we_can_t2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay, be a little bitchy teenager if you want to, not coming home when you say you will. "You do you!" Though, expect a shitty, boring conflict when you get home.

Hypergamy does care about your honor, because it shows you're a man and not a child.

You instill the same amount of dread by just going out and having fun, without pointlessly lying about it.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

K

[–]JudgeDoom69MRP APPROVED16 points17 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good self-analysis of your victim puke.

Next time you start to feel that internalized anger building up, take it out in the weight room. And go back and read NMMNG again.

You slipped up and lost your frame. It happens. Get back on that horse, cowboy.

[–]sd4c1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Next time you start to feel that internalized anger building up, take it out in the weight room

Any suggestion on how to deal with anger when tired (at night or early morning)? I have a home gym but find it difficult to even do push-ups when sufficiently sleep-deprived.

[–]JudgeDoom69MRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As long as you allow her to control your emotions, she is the dominant partner and you a the submissive partner. In that that arrangement she will have zero attraction for you.

You have no control over what she says or does, but you have full control over how you react to it.

If you can't get out of Dodge, and you can't lift, you might try meditation as a relaxation technique

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For the benefit of /u/resolutions316 and the similarly frameless, let's make explicit the subtexts of this exchange, which are the important part of the communication. (Or translate from "PowerTalk" (as some here like to call it) to plain talk.) Your egos and her Anti-Bitch Defense won't let your conscious minds acknowledge the real communication that's happening subtextually here, but rest assured that both her and your subconscious minds are fully aware and are scripting this communication.

Her PowerTalk: "You never followed up with me. I didn't have a chance to think it answer when you texted. I wish you would stop assuming things. You do this a lot."

Her (PlainTalk subtext): "I have authority over your time, activity, and location. Unless you get a specific, positive, prior authorization from me to deviate, you must stick to the default schedule. I am upset with your failure to fully comply with my frame."

The correct response:

/u/weakandsensitive's PowerTalk: "You didn't respond so I made plans without you. You want to be involved, respond next time."

/u/weakandsensitive's PlainTalk: "I reject your authority over my time, activities, and location. I interpret no answer as a "no" answer, and I will continue to do so in the future. This is my frame."

This would end the discussion, with minimal conflict and in OP's frame, except possibly for STFU, Broken Record, or Fogging as refusal to negotiate it.

Let's now translate the subtext of OP's "PowerlessTalk" reply:

OP's PowerlessTalk: "how about i don’t want to text because I am soon fucking pissed at you. I texted YOU to include YOU in plans that I was making ..."

OP's PlainTalk: "By complaining about rather than rejecting your requirement of prior positive approval of my activities, I hereby acknowledge this authority and the dominance of your frame. The particular disdain you showed for me by ignoring my request and expecting me to nag and beg for your approval deeply hurts my feelings, because your validation is very important to me. While I won't directly contest your authority to approve my activities, I will try to discourage your abuse of your authority by expressing my anger. I'm shaking and I can barely breathe, which proves that I'm not bullshitting and really am very angry, but also that you need not physically fear my anger because these are the physical reactions of an impotent little boy and not of a strong, dangerous male, so don't be scared of me."

If you think her subconscious didn't fully grasp and internalize the subtext, or that your subconscious mind didn't carefully script your subtext and calibrate your response within beta boundaries it considered sufficiently safe to challenge, you are ruled by your ego and very naive.

But, honestly...it feels so good to be MAD.

It is deeply cathartic for a dependent supplicant to get away with overtly pushing back against abuse by one's superior without getting immediately beaten back into submission, because it proves that the superior's willingness to abuse has limits or that the superior values the dependent's allegiance to at least that extent. This should not be confused with the punishing anger of an alpha disciplining a subordinate.

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

excellent breakdown, as another example for OP. this exchange from last night. I am walking to truck to go to yoga; and wife rolls up from work

wife: where are you going

me: yoga

wife: have fun

me: do you want to go for a walk when I get back

wife: maybe (translation: i don't value your time enough to commit)

me: K

so I go to yoga, and then go grab a beer with some yoga gals, then go home

her: I thought we were going for a walk

me: maybe means no; and I had other options

her: that is not what I mean

me: do or do not do

few hours later, she was laying in bed in her fancy underwear waiting for me

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, this is very interesting, and rings true.

Interesting to me is how all this got through so quickly, before I could moderate intellectually/think it through/whatever.

Just shows that in moments of stress, that shit comes out - which means I'm still "faking it till I make it." Stress reactions are the truest reactions.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Hiding your anger and punching yourself in the leg isn't really much of an improvement over being an outwardly angry child. Sounds like your therapy only changed the expression of your problem, not the problem itself.

But, honestly...it feels so good to be MAD

This is the conditioning that you've been feeding yourself for years that's led to you holding onto this need to be angry. It's a lie. Same as an alcoholic saying the drink feels so good, when it's actually giving him a headache, an upset stomach, and making him act stupid.

I typed it in, expecting to get it out and then delete it.

Yeah, I get it, but the trick is to not lose frame in the first place. Confession time: I used to be very similar, and I had this ugly fucking habit of muttering nasty shit under my breath when I was angry - didn't even realize I did it half the time, but it was passive aggressive as fuck ("What? I didn't say anything..."). It's just another symptom of unchecked anger.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yes. I do feel semi-permanently disconnected from my anger/ability to confront others. A bigger problem than I realized when I first started here.

[–]DownVoteForDickPic points points [recovered] | Copy Link

I think you're in a weird binge-purge cycle with your anger. You were clearly angry before that text conversation as it was full of resentments. Admit that you're angry before hand - at least to yourself - and it can't sneak up on you.

Anger is a very productive emotion, but it has to be a controlled burn.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you're in a weird binge-purge cycle with your anger. You were clearly angry before that text conversation

AND I seem to be in a weird recurring anger cycle overall. Had my first "anger phase," got "through it," only to have it come roaring back a few months ago. Disconnected completely, checked out, then things got better, got pulled back in...thought I was "through it" again.

I'm clearly not getting past whatever I need to get past. I don't know if I just need to keep hammering the process, or do something different, or what. I mean, I'm literally confused and clearly not as self aware as I believe myself to be. Shit seems to come out of nowhere.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

/u/[deleted] has a great post on going out of your way to piss your woman off. give that a go.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting, I missed that one. Will search it out.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR6 points7 points  (26 children) | Copy Link

You may not have been around in the beginning days where it was single handedly decided that if you have something important to communicate its important enough to do it by voice. Personally, I prefer face to face. There is nothing wrong with being angry and when you are angered it should inspire fear in those around you. Don't buy into the Nice Guy Concept that you have to somehow spare other people's feelings in order for them not to be mad at you. Well, fuck that.

Anyways, that goes for righteous anger. Your anger is just butthurt. Again, nice guy fallacy. Trying to please her and being upset when she doesn't reciprocate. You asked, didn't get an answer, and you made the most informed decision you could. Stand by that and own it. Want to take Friends XYZ out to have some bro time? Then do it and if she doesn't like that well thats unfortunate for her. I would have stuck with my original decision and not even bothered to answer any of that. Then when she goes on attack when you get home its A&A every single thing. Turn it sexual and bang that attitude out of her. If by chance she is a more cunning type of lady, she will ask you to change your plans after sex. That's up to you.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 2 points3 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

I would have stuck with my original decision and not even bothered to answer any of that. Then when she goes on attack when you get home its A&A every single thing. Turn it sexual and bang that attitude out of her.

Yes, this would have been way better.

I am still keeping the plans with the friend - that's tonight. Right now, I'm going to own losing my shit and apologize - because it was shitty and not appropriate for the situation.

I'm not going to apologize for anything outside of that. Maybe that conversation opens up into something bigger about the relationship. Honestly, we need it. I feel like I've reached a natural stopping point for "silently working on myself." Maybe that's true, maybe not. But keeping things bottled up clearly isn't working for me.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR10 points11 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

It's not advisable to apologize and if pushed tell her you "made some mistakes and it was not fair that you behaved like that". Of course that is my two cents because I would never apologize for my actions. Note the mistake internally and move on. Find another outlet for your things you are bottling up.

[–]weakandsensitive13 points14 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

+1. The fuck is there to apologize for? She wanted a fight and op gave it to her.

Nah. What's happening is OP is going to apologize cause he's a fucking pussy and wants to restore a bullshit sense of calm to soothe over tensions so he can continue bullshitting himself about how everything is now okay. As long as he acts like a beta bitch, everything will just be peachy keen. As long as mommy approves of his "changes" the no problemo and he can keep telling himself he's doing something for himself.

/u/resolutions316 - this is the first time I've seen someone sprinkle some alpha on it to lie to themselves instead of trying to lie to their wives. if you want to act like your wife's bitch, do it, but don't go out of your way trying to lie to everyone else here about it.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, I was thinking exactly that. The false reality we create when everything is calm is very seducing. He hasn't broken the nice guy persona yet and that will be his undoing. I hope he doesn't apologize to her and fold to her demands. I also hope this lottery ticket in my pocket is a jackpot winner.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

I don't want to smooth things over - I didn't do anything wrong.

But isn't apologizing when you legitimately fucked up part of owning your shit?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No, never apologize. Ever.

A woman can forgive anything, anything but being a weak man.

Weak men apologize

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have a BP friend who surprised me the other day when he said " a woman would rather see a man die on his white horse than fall off it."

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nothing new there. "Come home with your shield. Or on it."

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The new thing was my hopelessly BP friend said it. But, in retrospect it's probably said in his typical BP fasion (bitterness) as opposed to an RP revelation.

[–]fakefalseMarried5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Mistakes were made" leave it at that. Apologies are for when you accidentally ran over the dog. You get two or three in a lifetime. Use them sparingly.

[–]weakandsensitive4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But isn't apologizing when you legitimately fucked up part of owning your shit?

According to WHOM did you legitimately fuck up? Because it sure as shit isn't you. If you legit fucked up, you wouldn't have victim puked all over the place.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Hmm. I don't think I fucked up in terms of the situation itself. I DO think I fucked up in losing my temper. But maybe you're implying that even that's post-event rationalization?

[–]weakandsensitive3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

rationalization

Yes. In order to "keep the peace" - which is very beta supplicating behavior, inherently accepts her frame of "it's your responsibility to make ME happy", etc.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Huh. So, you don't think I "broke frame" here - or is it that, in a broader sense, it doesn't matter....feelings are feelings, I have some, she has some. She doesn't censor her own feelings, so censoring MINE is supplicatory?

[–]weakandsensitive7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You didn't break frame faggot.

You don't have frame. It's not something you gain or lose. It's something you have or don't.

Do you have your worldview? Do you own it? Do you execute it without regard to anyone else's bullshit?

The answer, obviously, is no.

The long and short of it is this - you did something the way you wanted to do and now you're trying to go out of your way to apologize for it. What in the ever loving fuck is wrong with you?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And who did you fail by blowing up and losing your shit? Is being able to control and harness that anger her goal, or yours?

You didnt fail her. Not blowing up is not for her. You failed you. Apologize to yourself. Then move on.

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No! Not if you are attempting to be attractive to a particular woman. If I screw up at the office up I will apologize to my secretary or any of the other staff, usually with a self-depreciating comment. If I screw up at home I look my girl in the eye and say: "Mistakes were made and we will get them corrected."

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Dont apologize. Youre unloading your guilt onto her, and its just digging a deeper hole.

If she demands one, laugh and tell her to go fuck herself. Theb say something sweet and wink.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Youre unloading your guilt onto her, and its just digging a deeper hole.

I'm not sure I get this. Are you saying - by apologizing, I mentally absolve myself, thereby leaving her with whatever guilt is felt over the interaction? Instead, I should just own my actions quietly, experience whatever there is to experience in the moment, and move on?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not quietly. Theres nothing to discuss. You both know what happened, what more is there to say?

[–]pencilinamango4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't fuckin apologize...jesus..

[–]ArchwingerMarried- MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

An apology is for when you actually wrong her. She wronged you, and you acted like a bitch. Which you have a right to do. It's not "wrong", just the opposite of sexy and valuable.

Saying sorry for that is like saying "sorry for being a worthless loser", which is an admission of your worthlessness.

The farthest I'd go is "I shouldn't have lost my temper with you." And leave it at that. Delivered from the position that you're the man around here, and you recognize that your previous approach isn't effective leadership. The underlying assumption is that you're in charge, but your leadership technique was ineffective because you didn't understand the best way to motivate your subordinate.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ahhh, got it. I see the difference here.

The above is actually what I ended up saying. This just explains the reasoning better than I had in my head.

[–]DanceMonkeeDanceMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually, saying "I shouldn't have..." is going too far according to WISNIFG. FFS, he didn't hit her, he just sent some words words to her phone.

The farthest I'd go is, "I wish I hadn't lost my temper," but it would be best to ignore it completely.

When she demands an apology and you don't give it to her, she's doing the feelz work in tonight's DEVI for you.

[–]PurpleVeteranMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You asked, didn't get an answer, and you made the most informed decision you could. Stand by that and own it.

I was going to post that he needs to take some responsibility for not following up and nailing down the plans...

But if she doesn't answer a direct question, then she doesn't get any say in what goes down.

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think she was lucky to even be asked.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fuck, i was all ready to show you grtting mad was good for you.

Then i saw it was all over text.

Fuck, if its important, its face to face important, for you and her.

Next time dont ask, just do and inform, and put the fucking phone down.

And next time you've had enough of her shit, tell her. Raising your voice can work well when you aren't lashing out like a child.

Ive done this occasionally. It shows you aren't afraid to hurt her feelings, and that you do have boundaries.

After one or two of them, you dont get tested anymore, because she knows tigers have teeth.

But if you dont have the frame to say your piece and be done with it, don't. Turning this into a long drawn out mess isnt productive. Get mad, say your piece, then fix the problem and get over it.

Also, the sulking in tue corner thing has to go. Stop being afraid of her.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Get mad, say your piece, then fix the problem and get over it.

Yeah, this is the goal for tonight. I don't need to make everything right. I need to be clear about why I'm pissed, say my piece, and then shut the fuck up about it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And in the future, stop being so averse to conflict. Would have avoided this

Doing your own thing and not needing her permission at the begining

Bring afraid to stick to YOUR plan.

[–]weakandsensitive11 points12 points  (30 children) | Copy Link

Why's everyone so afraid to get angry when justified? A man's anger should be fucking scary. Apparently yours isn't. You probably want to figure that out.

Losing frame

That's not something you find/lose. You have a worldview you expect or you don't.

Your fuck up, imo, was typing out a conversation which dulled your anger.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (25 children) | Copy Link

A man's anger should be fucking scary.

Agreed, but his reaction was not proportionate to her action.

I knew a guy in our office who rarely swore, but when he did, the whole room stopped, because they knew some serious shit went down.

[–]weakandsensitive13 points14 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

she started arguing back about "how dare I turn this around on her" and "is it too much to ask that I follow up with her in person."

That sounds to me like she wanted a fight. Sure, it was a covert contract on OP's part, but if she wants to fight, I want to get give good examples of why it's not a good idea.

Pretty fucking stupid of OP to not just say "You didn't respond so I made plans without you. You want to be involved, respond next time."

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 3 points4 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I think you're exactly right that anger could be justified, but was disproportional in this case.

If she, say, hurt the kids somehow, or hurt our finances - anger is justified and a sign of openness/strength. If she does some stupid bullshit and I fly off the handle, it just means I'm not in control of my own shit. She controls my emotions.

[–]weakandsensitive-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

I think you're exactly right that anger could be justified, but was disproportional in this case.

Fuck off. Someone planted that idea and that was the easiest way for you to hamster your backpeddling. You should be a politician considering how spineless you are.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children) | Copy Link

Naw, I see why you think that. But the anger I felt wasn't because of what she actually did. It was built up resentment from OTHER shit, from being rejected, etc.

I'm self-aware enough to know that. No hamstering, not trying to justify anything. Just the way it is.

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

But the anger I felt wasn't because of what she actually did. It was built up resentment from OTHER shit, from being rejected, etc.

Oh. So that's not why you wrote up a gigantic text message response? You think there's a difference?

No hamstering, not trying to justify anything.

You are going out of your way to find excuses to mitigate her behaviors triggering your response. Don't b.s. yourself by saying raw emotion isn't raw. Or do. Your life. You do you.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I'm not mitigating her behavior - it was shitty. I'm going to tell her as much.

BUT. If I was more secure in myself? Or if I'd gotten laid this week? Or if I wasn't feeling like the one putting in the effort, when she puts in none? I wouldn't have reacted the way I did.

It sucks, and it's raw, sure. I felt like a victim and acted accordingly. But I'm not a victim - I make a choice to be where I am. I can still be pissed and own the fact that I should've behaved differently...unless I'm missing your point.

[–]gettingmymojobackMRP APPROVED3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, you need to get over all that shit. That's the point. You have no frame because you carry all this bullshit with you. You can't get over the resentment issues because you still haven't internalized two key points, first it's all your fault and secondly you are the prize (or should be if you're not there yet).

Everything else is just bullshit to protect your fragile ego. You're coming up with a ton of excuses of why this is really all her fault that you lost your shit. No, it's you're fucking fault because you resent a fish for acting like a fish, especially when it's your lack of leadership that got you where you are in the first place.

You need to kill your ego and accept responsibility for your past actions that led you here, and for your current actions in this situation. The good news is you can still improve, the bad news is you'll never get over this resentment bullshit until you internalize that it was all your fault.

You're never going to get out of the anger phase until you accept this.

[–]innominating0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You did fuck up multiple times here. The worst part is you typed your puke out and still sent the fucking thing. You know STFU and text for logistics only, yet you disregarded both, because you have so little control of yourself. That is the fucking problem here. You are a piece of shit and you have much to overcome to become more than that, especially in your wife's eyes,

But, you have not been set back for good, or for long. Lift, sidebar, and trust it enough to apply it and you can become a man you want to be.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I'm not mitigating her behavior - it was shitty. I'm going to tell her as much.

You already told her as much in the initial exchange. Won or lost, this shit test is past and done. Forget it, STFU, and move on.

You have a very bad female/beta need to hamster about conflicts afterward and to follow up seeking "resolution" / reassurance that feelingz are assuaged, to restore your comfort. It's an acknowledgement of your subordinate status, so stop doing this.

Learning to live with others' disagreement or unhappiness with your actions is a prerequisite to having frame.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yet not able to articulate the underlying issue?

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not sure what you're referring to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The realnreason

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It was built up resentment from OTHER shit, from being rejected

That took quite a bit of poking by W n S to get that out of you. Think about it.

[–]innominating1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

That sounds like DEERing.

Even if he decides to go with that, he'd be more effective broken recording it with amusement and not anger.

I do get your point that it's ok for a man to be angry when his defined boundaries are violated. This is a case where OP hasn't yet established a boundary. He needs to here without anger. Simply and dispassionately tell her that he doesn't want to hear about it because she didn't bother to respond.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I don't see saying more than those two sentences.

For me, I state the facts. Everything else can be met with "too bad".

[–]innominating0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I get your point.

I wouldn't bother saying those two sentences.

ME: Heads up - Friend X will be in town tonight, so I'm swinging out to meet him. Won't be till around 7:30.

HER: Wait. Is this instead of him coming over to hang out?

ME: Yep

HER: You never followed up with me. I didn't have a chance to think it answer when you texted. I wish you would stop assuming things. You do this a lot.

ME: K

HER: I'm so frustrated. Like, what went through your thought process when I didn't respond? There are so many possibilities and you just assumed one thing which is most convenient for you.

...............

ME: K

HER: That's what you have to say? We are supposed to be working in our communication. It continues to be a problem.

ME: K

[–]weakandsensitive1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

HER: You never followed up with me. I didn't have a chance to think it answer when you texted. I wish you would stop assuming things. You do this a lot.

ME: You didn't respond so I made plans without you. You want to be involved, respond next time.

That pretty much heads off

HER: I'm so frustrated. Like, what went through your thought process when I didn't respond? There are so many possibilities and you just assumed one thing which is most convenient for you.

and

HER: That's what you have to say? We are supposed to be working in our communication. It continues to be a problem.

Anything after that is just b.s. whining which should get handled accordingly.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

in case you missed it, /u/man_in_the_world did a nice breakdown of the powertalk behind the sentence. the outright rejection of another person's worldview that doesn't match mine.

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You want to be involved, respond next time

Sounds logical but a woman will still find a way to turn this around- my wife's go-to on this would probably be something like "oh, so you can just not respond whenever you want but blah blah blah."

I liked your other idea of not fighting on their turf at all

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

a woman will still find a way to turn this around

Yeah.. if a woman is dictating and leading your conversations, that's on you. That sentence for me is a clear conversation ender - as in "nope. you don't get to bitch after you blew your chance to contribute."

"oh, so you can just not respond whenever you want but blah blah blah."

that sentence is so absurdly out of my reality that it just wouldn't happen. if my wife said something that fucking stupid, i'd look at her like she was the biggest fucking idiot in the world. i'd be using strong non-verbal communication to tell her how fucking stupid she is for even bringing something like that up. (you know that look you get on your phase when the retard driver feels the need to just stop in the middle of the intersection causing gridlock for no reason? that face)

alternative: "you want to have a fight. let's have a fucking fight then."

[–]BobbyPeruMRP Approved0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No I get it. I don't have those kind of a as conversations with Mrs Peru either. I was trying to put myself in OP's shoes and what she would have gone with in the earlier day. If she said some shit like that now, I'd most likely AM it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It wasnt about the nail.

He cant articulate it yet, and needs to start.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw you say something similar above, but I guess I'm missing your point. Which may, itself, be the point?

[–]bogeyd6MRP MODERATOR2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think when he decided to be keyboard butthurt the reception of the anger lost its edge.

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes. I should not have texted.

[–]FailingBillionaire0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Shoulda, coulda, woulda.

Wars are won through strategy, not tactics.

And a lost battle doesn't determine the war.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Damn, well said. OP simply failed to intimidate and his anger was reasonable.

[–]anythingincMRP APPROVED - Blue Pill Diplomat4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yesterday I texted for logistics, letting her know I was making plans for this week with friend X. I asked if she'd be down to have him over the house after the kids were asleep, maybe play a board game. She has been reluctant to have people over in the past, because she feels self conscious about our house.

You texted her to ask her permission, she doesn't want him to come over, but doesn't want to start any shit, so figures if she doesn't respond you'll just puss out, and/or she knows how passive-aggressive you are and already knows that "asked if she'd be down" really means "this is what I want and I'm going to do it" and was mentally prepared for that, but then you changed your plans based on your desires to please her, when the whole thing isn't pleasing, she doesn't want to be third wheel under any circumstance.

I wish you would stop assuming things. You do this a lot.

Real talk here. She's used to your "asking permission" really meaning "this is what I want" and thus she just silently agrees for the past nine years or speaks up when she really disagrees. When you make assumptions and flip flop around trying to please her you upset this dynamic, or it recalls all the things you asked her permission for that you weren't really sure about and later ditched when she didn't consent. You've probably tried to actually make some decisions and follow through since you started MRP, this is in contrast to the previous dynamic too. So, when you "asked" her, it was coded in your previous "telling her" or "I'm thinking about it but probably won't follow through" medium. And then, instead of doing what you "told" her, or "not following through" you changed the plans completely. You can see how she is upset and confused.

I thought it would be nice to lead our relationship and get some group hang time in.

But you DIDN'T lead, you asked her permission. You didn't know what YOU wanted to do. If you wanted him to come by the house, you would have said that, if you wanted to go out with him, you would have said that. Instead you let her decide...that is not leading. And then you verbally assaulted her because she didn't participate and you didn't lead and you are in a stage where you are separating from your previous methods, but haven't internalized the new, correct assertive/leading/MRP methods. Hopefully your relationship survives this precarious transition, assuming you ever complete it.

She has been reluctant to have people over in the past, because she feels self conscious about our house.

Yeah, do something about your castle bro. Or take it old school and chill in the garage.

[–]screechhaterMRP APPROVED2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why in the FUCK are you not talking to her face to face ? This is a marriage AKA as a relationship Quit the finger fucking and confirm by voice during face to face time

Read This Book her not answering you is in this book and the sidebar is a direct insight as to why she does not answer

Pull your head straight out of your ass and make the plans. Lead her into the life you want If she does not wan't to be in it Why give 10 fucks ? You are somewhat gaining traction, and then you pull this childish shit, and get butthurt from the rejections she can tell and is fucking with you on purpose to test your resolve wake the fuck up

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

if shes a sahm, she needs to keep the house presentable. If she doesnt get the message, invite ppl over next time and tell them in front of your wife "don't mind the mess" or something like that. Just enough so she gets the hint. She will probably bring up your comment after they leave, and thats when you can have the discussion.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This saved a bit early, I meant to tag ...

and

I didn't even mean to send it - [...] But of course, I hit "send" instead.

Anyone else see the universe revealing it's deep sense of amused irony here as it manifests itself through OP?

[–]AustralianArm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very meta

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women draw us in to their dramatic emotional level then beat us with experience. You don't need MRP to tell you what a faggot you were, you already know. Stop getting a hard on because you expressed your anger. Anger is your fucking enemy if it makes you REACT instead of ACT.

[–]RuleZeroDADMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You indulged in your feelz. Rage in person is useful. Rage over text is laughable.

/u/Rollo-Tomassi needs to reiterate some "old" knowledge about how "buffers" fuck up your message (and ability to game). Important communication needs to be done face to face for maximum impact.

If you want the full extent of your rage internalized by your target, you can't put it in print. She needs to see that her lack of consideration for your time and planning has consequences, and that you are not her "Manny" or other unpaid help around the house.

If she can't understand the importance of being a girlfriend, wife, and mother, then a value assessment might need to be in order. The fact that you seldom get angry would only push home your perception of second-class priority.

[–]RedishPill1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I saw some comments on anger in the first few messages here (and someone may have already hit on this point exactly) but a HUGE realization for me about why anger feels good is that.. you feel RIGHT! The problem? You have allowed yourself to become the victim. Why? You must be hurt in order to feel anger. How? You opened yourself up by choosing to try and include your wife in your plans, and when she ignored your attempts, you were hurt. But, fuck being hurt, right? That's for bitches. Instead, you switch almost immediately to anger (for me I'm pretty sure its a subconscious immediate event), because now she is the problem, and you were the one was wronged in this scenario. It feels good because you are RIGHT, and she is WRONG. The problem is that, at the core, you are angry because she hurt you. She hurt you because YOU LET HER hurt you. You allowed yourself to become the victim, to care to much about her words, to be drawn into her frame.

Trying not to think about her actions as being "about me" and making them "about her". ex. Think about how laughable the shit your girl says is when she is h-angry, because you know she's like a child who just needs to eat; it's not about you at all.

...now I just need to develop a strong enough frame that my go to response is laughter when she does shit like this vs. being hurt (angry). PS. This applies to all situations in life, not just your wife. Improve you.

[–]BlackthorneSamurai0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, she manipulated you to get angry. That's the reaction she wanted. You have to recognize that shit when it's happening. Does her behavior not make logical sense? If the answer is yes then she is looking for something else I.e. Her feels to be tickled. She picked a fight and you pulled you into her frame. You have every reason to be pissed. However the only move is to act like you DGAF

[–]BluepillProfessorMarried-MRP MODERATOR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Really none of what you did in getting mad etc was "bad." This is where you screwed up:

I argued back every point

[–]AechzenMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's your problem... every woman I've ever known well has some degree of decision-making disorder. My wife has it bad.

You don't ask her where she wants to eat. You tell her where you're eating.

You don't ask her to bring your friend over. You announce that you're bringing your friend over...or you announce that you're going out and an approximate time you'll be home if it's relevant to logistics.

Frame the default choice as the one you would be doing if she never responds, because apparently that's the game she's playing right now.

Everything you said in your victim puke was 100% logical, and probably correct. None of that matters to her, because you were wrong 'emotionally'. She wanted the feeling and power of deciding things for you and you following her whim. The only way to win that is to not argue, not play, and to simply announce what you're doing in the future.

FYI, I don't think your anger strategies are very useful. Deep breathing is effective for some people. Physically leaving a shitty argument is also a great idea. My favorite phrase to bail on bullshit is "I can't believe we're arguing about this" and then walk away. And decide whether she is worth keeping around... she sounds like an annoying, argumentative lady who doesn't want to have sex with you.

[–]broccoli_Rob120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why indulge in anger? It makes men look weak and ruins your day. I am guessing your mom/dad had a temper. Now the pleasure centers in your brain light up from the epinephrine rush. It's addictive. Therapy hasn't addressed the full issue. Try meditation. 10 minutes a day completely changed my life. Guided meditations on this app make is super accessible "insight timer"

[–]sd4c0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Disparaging someone over text almost never works out well. Ignoring them is better. But the verbose/"vomit" aspect should never take place over text... whether praise or scolding, it speaks to too much investment and too much available time.

[–]sven_igortsen points points [recovered] | Copy Link

I feel you man. Yeah you slipped up and you need to do better. But 1.5 years of getting no sex, that bitch deserves whatever you dished out. But the fact she can affect you like this says you have work to do.

On working directly on your temper, I had a lot of success practicing this technique taught by Stephen Stosny. http://www.compassionpower.com/core-value-conditioning-for-anger/

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But 1.5 years of getting no sex, that bitch deserves whatever you dished out.

hahaha

that's one of the most blue pill comments i've ever heard.

its her fault. yeah thats it

[–]sven_igortsen points points [recovered] | Copy Link

Ah yes, I remember you from your shitty rambling post titled "Ego". Your opinion means nothing to me.

[–]ReddJiveMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Clearly

[–]resolutions316!!CAUTION!! Runaway bus potentially ahead[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

thanks for the recommendation. I will check this out.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Think about your text "Wow". What's the point of that? All it does is make you look defensive. All she wanted was to be validated. And that little word just ruined everything. Here's how I would have handled it.

Her:"Blah blah blah I'm a reactive bitch."

You:"Yeah I guess you're right"

Her: "I'm still a reactive bitch, what are you going to do about it?"

You: .....

Ignore her texts. Game her in person. Don't be angry around her because then she wins.

[–]wn360 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is one of the best threads I've seen on here to date. Dudes helping dudes. Excellent advice and analytics here.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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