~ archived since 2018 ~

Your wife didn't make you beta; YOU did

February 9, 2019

It is a universal human (and higher animal) trait to test others to determine their actual boundaries and expectations, which usually differ from those stated.

  • A child refuses to pick up his toys or to go to bed.

  • A motorist exceeds the posted speed limit.

  • An employee arrives late for work; a boss asks an employee to work late without additional compensation.

  • A wife tells her husband to fetch something for her she could more easily have gotten herself, or overspends the monthly budget, or denies sex for months at a time.

  • A boyfriend pushes beyond his girlfriend's sexual boundaries.

  • A dog steals food from the table.

If those being tested assert reasonable boundaries and consequences, as is expected of any competent adult, mutually accceptable norms are established and satisfactory relationships emerge. But when someone consistently abdicates this responsibility, bad things result:

  • Kids become spoiled brats who disrespect their parent.

  • Everybody speeds, some dangerously so, leading to deadly accidents.

  • Employees show up very late and gossip instead of working; employers exploit or abuse their workers.

  • A wife loses all respect and attraction for her husband, resulting in a dead bedroom or an affair; some wives abuse their husbands.

  • A girlfriend is taken advantage of or abused sexually.

  • An out-of-control dog terrorizes its beta owners, until a Cesar Milan teaches them alpha behavior.

Enforcing reasonable boundaries and expectations is a central obligation of all adults in every relationship, notably including a marriage. For various reasons (Fear of conflict? Naive notions about romantic love? Misguided belief that Nice Guy covert contracts and behaviors will get his desired outcomes? A morbid fear that his oneitis unicorn will leave him alone and sexless?), some husbands abdicate this normal adult responsibility in their marriage, even some who exercise it elsewhere in their lives. Their wives gradually "discover" this in the normal course of largely unconscious boundary-testing common to all human relationhips, and meeting little resistance the liberties granted and taken (again usually unconsciously) expand into relationship-damaging territory.

Having no independent personal agency and constantly seeking positive validation from others by mirroring their frames, our frameless reactionary betas mistakenly project all agency and responsibility onto others, and in particular misattribute their wives' natural accidental or opportunistic testing of boundaries, or her anxious insecure attachment behavior, as a deliberate, aggressive campaign to betaify him so overpowering that he is helpless to resist. In truth the causality operates in exactly the opposite direction; the constant force driving the betaization process is the beta's commitment to appeasement to fulfill his covert contracts, and to avoid upsetting and losing his oneitis wife.

This standard beta pattern of actively promoting their further betaization by unconditional acceptance of boundary violations is starkly demonstrated in this post by an intelligent beta idiot whose steadfast refusal to reveal his boundaries and expectations to his anxious, insecure, codependent wife drove her over a period of months to ever more extreme BPD behaviors in her desperate but hopeless attempts to get some clarity from her ultra-Nice Guy husband.

Our hapless, still-beta hero continues to operate from a wife's frame by attributing primary agency and malice to her rather than to her husband (and thereby absolving his ego of the primary responsibility for his beta behavior), and his "solution" focuses on changing her rather than himself, which is both misguided and mostly out of his control. Avoid this unproductive, ego-protecting way of thinking.

Let us never again read "My wife made me a beta!" here at r/marriedredpill. This is simply male hamstering and solipsism that hinders your progress. YOU chose to betaify yourself, and YOU drove the process forward with your misguided Nice Guy covert contract strategy, and with your neurotic fear of upsetting and losing your oneitis unicorn. Quit blaming your wife for YOUR failure.

The good news is that since it was always you betaifying yourself, it requires only you to reverse it.

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Post Information
Title Your wife didn't make you beta; YOU did
Author man_in_the_world
Upvotes 124
Comments 26
Date February 9, 2019 3:05 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/MarriedRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/your-wife-didnt-make-you-beta-you-did.217233
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/aot27d/your_wife_didnt_make_you_beta_you_did/

[–]BobbyPeruMRP APPROVED38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The key takeaway here is own your shit.

Solid post.

[–]470_2_700_nm24 points25 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

So it’s me who made myself a weak ass fuck. Damn.

I can’t blame her? How can I play victim now?

[–]jcrpta14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

That's the wonderful thing about RP praxeology if you make the effort to understand it properly (which a lot of people don't).

If it is you who fucked yourself up, it follows that you are responsible for un-fucking yourself.

It also follows (and this is the good bit) that you have the ability to un-fuck yourself. You just need to learn how.

[–]DancesWithPugs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Learning implies gaining knowledge, but applying that knowledge is more about willpower and discipline.

[–]BanMeAgainFaggot 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

How? By reading the sidebar!? Brilliant!

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

more important to practice the sidebar

[–]HornsOfApathyMRP MODERATOR10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

MiTW has it right here folks.

As I read this I recalled how my first wife who truly was BPD was calling for a boundary enforcing man. I failed, but she was on the extreme end of the spectrum.

My current wife like all women have the same BPD tendencies. Early in my MRP journey I thought my picker had failed me again and i had saddled up to another extremely crazy bitch. I was wrong. I was projecting my lack of frame onto her as "shes just BPD wtf"

Turns out it was me who was the problem. Lack of boundaries and a life history of Mr. Nice Guy lead my wife to exhibiting BPD behaviors in overdrive.

Next time you think your wife is more crazy than the average woman, have a look in the mirror, faggot.

[–]silversum1Grinding / Dreadful4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Solid post and links (although the first link didn’t work for me). We are truly masters of our own destiny. It’s hard to internalize and act on that, but most things in life worth having are difficult to achieve.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The first link is to a post at TRP, so it might not show up if you haven't accepted the quarantine bypass.

[–]Red-Nerd134 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some find Personal Responsibility terrifying, I find it liberating!

If it's someone else's fault, then I'm trapped, cuz I can't control them.

If it's my fault, then I've got the power to fix it!

[–]PersaeusMRP APPROVED4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

couldn't agree more with this post. i have one thing to add.

the other key ingredient behind "betaization" is plain old SLOTH. generally speaking, men are capable of much more greatness than women. were also generally capable of much less than women. this duality between drive and sloth is much greater in men. a man gets married, thinks he crossed the finish line with that pussy on lock now, and just lays the fuck down. pretty soon, the woman has to be the man in the marriage on now you're her bitch and she feels like a trapped lesbian.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes; the idea that once they've cashed the marriage lottery ticket, guys have won a lifetime supply of free sex on demand unconditioned on future performance is as wrong as it is prevalent.

[–]hystericalbonding3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had been looking for that old post by WMP for a while now - thanks!

Fortunately, guys like SKredpill and his clone, financial_metal, don't last in MRP. They usually get frustrated that we don't agree with them and, like proper Nice Guys, go ape shit and run back to TRP or MGTOW. The mods and flair continue to do a good job maintaining the signal:noise ratio.

[–]Chump_No_MoreHard Core Nuclear Navy Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your success in life (or lack thereof) is directly attributed to two things... the choices you make and the consequences of those choices.

There are no such things as 'accidents' and you are not a 'victim'.

The sooner you get this through your thick head, the quicker your life becomes easier by orders of magnitude.

[–]melb222 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Mostly good advice, but I'd take care suggesting that BPD can somehow be tamed. Those with BPD do not inhabit the same mental reality as others. This is one reason it is so unsettling to have experienced a BPD relationship - you no longer have a sense of the people you have dealings with having the same, underlying shared reality. Nor is it just "one thing" that is going wrong - there is a baffling array of thinking errors - a lack of object constancy, emotional amnesia, projection, black and white thinking, fear of engulfment alternating with fear of abandonment, narcissism alternating with self-loathing etc. You really go down the rabbit hole if you try to get a handle on what is happening in the mind of such a person - there are trained psychologists who despair at it. Better to avoid than to try to hold in place with RP methods.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd take care suggesting that BPD can somehow be tamed.

Thanks for the clarification. I did not intend to imply that BPD can be entirely controlled by healthy boundaries and expectations (although it likely reduces the severity of BPD behaviors toward you), and I also agree that it's

Better to avoid than to try to hold in place with RP methods.

I suspect many betas ignore red flags out of a scarcity mentality.

You really go down the rabbit hole if you try to get a handle on what is happening in the mind of such a person

A very important thing about boundaries is that

Our boundaries are for us to respect. Since we respect them so much, we defend them. Women understand boundaries because we defend them.

We need not, and should not, try to get inside the head of such a person (or anyone else) to "manage" them; that is the classic beta behavior of adopting their frame. Our boundaries and their enforcement come from our frame.

[–]SKRedPill2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This standard beta pattern of actively promoting their further betaization by unconditional acceptance of boundary violations is starkly demonstrated in this post by an intelligent beta idiot whose steadfast refusal to reveal his boundaries and expectations to his anxious, insecure, codependent wife drove her over a period of months to ever more extreme BPD behaviors in her desperate but hopeless attempts to get some clarity from her ultra-Nice Guy husband.

I am the guy who wrote that article. Yes, it is true that when I got into this relationship, I was an utterly clueless beta who had no idea. I could have been the poster guy for Robert Glover's book. In retrospect, after finding TRP, I realize I should have screened out that relationship on Day 1 itself.

I am not married to that woman anymore - I walked out. You might write it off as my neurotic fear of upsetting her, but BPD women are not normal and can do everything from violence to gaslighting to going nuclear to get you to comply - the only boundary that ever works is OUT, and even there I had to tread a fine line or else the cops would be at my door.

It was only near the end when I somehow found The Rational Male and read about Rollo's experience with BPD that I came to know what that even was - everything made sense - I'll disagree with you on one thing, BPD is for real and it's very dangerous - to say that is not blaming and washing off personal responsibility. NMMNG made me realize I had to walk out and I did.

I got out alive, but I lost almost all the money I'd made and many career opportunities, my health and it took me quite a while to get my mind back together as well - there was a lot of anger and pain and I was suicidal for a while. It set me back 4-5 years. The gym gave me the kick to reboot. After the divorce, I got busy lifting and observing people and allowing myself to start rebuilding. I read a lot and understood what's really going on in most of the relationships around me, including my own.

There are many of us guys who find the truth only after it hits us like a train. Unfortunately in my life, till that point I did not have any role models of positive masculinity in relationships in either my family or my circles - barring that one uncle who lifts, but I've seen him very very rarely. Now that I see with better eyes, I see so many things wrong with most of the married men I've saw, and the way I was brought up. Maybe 1 in 20 was alpha enough to own his shit good, lead and keep up his respect. My family still tries to feed me all the BP nonsense that didn't work for them at all, only now I no longer listen to them.

It's been less than a year since I've started implementing the sidebar - it will take me a few more. So I know I've got to STFU and get to work, and there's still a lot of work and growth ahead. Writing stuff in TRP is no proof of real mastery. Book smart ain't smart enough for real life.

I respect the high standards and no compromise approach the mods at MRP have - this is what guys like me needed. Thanks to both my life and you guys for kicking my butt and waking me up. Yes, my life is up to me, and I'm grateful I've begun the journey.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

BPD is for real and it's very dangerous

I do not disagree.

I do think that

  • you faced even worse BPD behavior, and tolerated it for longer, due to being Mr. Nice Guy.

  • true BPD is rarer among wives of our Nice blue n00bs than they self-report.

I'm happy to see that you're taking some ownership; this will enable you to progress.

[–]JDRoedellMRP APPROVED1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Upvote. Blaming your beta-ness on your wife is like radical feminists blaming their victimization on “the patriarchy.” This is why I don’t want my daughters growing up thinking there is some invisible, nefarious force holding them down.

[–]DancesWithPugs0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent post

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most excellent post! It's so obvious, but still hits me. Very well articulated.

[–]UrsanChief0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Internalizing and accepting that I (not my wife) made myself a whiny, beta faggot was simultaneously the most terrifying, liberating and rage-inducing moment I've ever experienced.

I wish all my friends who listened to my feminine bitching about my wife over the years would have been able to drop kick my ass into reality the way some of the guys at AskMRP did.

[–]Kpwn88-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

TL:DR She is a reflection of you. Be awesome, and she will be awesome to you.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Being excellent is one side of the equation, but you also have to enforce boundaries to maintain respect and not be taken for granted; see Dancing Monkey.

[–]Kpwn880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Congratulations, Captain Obvious, you're getting a promotion to Major.

[–]man_in_the_worldMRP APPROVED[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love the smell of ego in the morning.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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